The Religion Discussion

[achillies]

Achillies,
To study the Quran, you need to study the Arabic language first.

What does/did your study of the bible entail with respect to language?

English, Hebrew, some Latin, all in little amounts

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Over the years I've read the english version of all three books: The Holy Bible (KJV), The Noble Qur'an and The Bhagavad Gita. I hope to read the Torah in english soon.

I am sure only reading is not studying but I wanted to give all a fair reading.

So you studied the Qur'an in as much detail as you have studied the Bible, impressive!
Tell me, which Surah did you enjoy the most? Have you read any Hadith?

and why are you so preoccupied with what you think are my preconceived notions? Forget about why I am asking the question and just answer it! You should be confident of your answer, not so?

I have not studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way I have studied the bible, and I consider myself to have a very long way to go with regards to having a comfortable understanding of the bible, what I do have is a proper foundation understanding.

Your preconceived notions are important, it causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome

The pot calling the kettle black!

if you haven't studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way you have studied the Bible, how then can you say

The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.

???

that would be like me saying Royal Castle tastes better than KFC when I have tasted Royal Castle but I've only smelt KFC, nothing more.

It seems that your preconceived notions causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome!

[achillies]

^ Over the years I've read the english version of all three books: The Holy Bible (KJV), The Noble Qur'an and The Bhagavad Gita. I hope to read the Torah in english soon.

I am sure only reading is not studying but I wanted to give all a fair reading.

So you studied the Qur'an in as much detail as you have studied the Bible, impressive!
Tell me, which Surah did you enjoy the most? Have you read any Hadith?

and why are you so preoccupied with what you think are my preconceived notions? Forget about why I am asking the question and just answer it! You should be confident of your answer, not so?

I have not studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way I have studied the bible, and I consider myself to have a very long way to go with regards to having a comfortable understanding of the bible, what I do have is a proper foundation understanding.

Your preconceived notions are important, it causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome

The pot calling the kettle black!

if you haven't studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way you have studied the Bible, how then can you say

The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.

???

that would be like me saying Royal Castle tastes better than KFC when I have tasted Royal Castle but I've only smelt KFC, nothing more.

It seems that your preconceived notions causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome!

Is that all I said in my post? (this is the part that I talked about earlier) you have gone on, selecting what you NEED from my post (twice) and started another post, what about the rest? Have you nothing to say there?

If you read my first few posts in this thread, and truly understood my posts to AdamB, then you might have had a clue as to why I chose to not continue any studies the Qur'an, lol, would you like me to dig them up for you, if yes, that would be another time, I'm on tapatalk. Oh, and it completely nullifies your KFC vs Royal Castle analogy, completely, lol.

Still, tell me of the relevant information that I have bypassed, and what preconceived notions you are referring to, and the outcome you think, I wanted?

Or are you making a vain attempt to feel good about yourself by seemingly taking my own words and using against me, though my concerns with certain aspects of the Qur'an were clearly stated earlier in this thread.

I had written a long post in order answer to your question, but I deleted most of it, because I wanted you to get to your endgame quickly, and you have, merely reading any holy book on the surface without proper dedicated study (which includes many other books) is tantamount to judging the book by its cover, you have missed out on what is really there, no wonder all you picked up was 'a talking snake' and a 'burning bush'

So I ask again, do you feel you made and educated choice?

[Themightyheads]

clouds need strings?

The Torah makes up part of the Bible, and I dont know if the Vedas speak about angels.

I meant if age was a factor of authenticity as you stated

That was in reference to the comparison you made with contradicting views of angels between Judeo-Christianity and Islam. However age by itself it not a substantial factor in authenticity.

well you were the one who said

I know for me I choose the one with the more corroborated truth claims, consistency and set the precedent 600 years before.

also how does the Bible have "the more corroborated truth claims, consistency" over the Qur'an or Gita?

jus was sayn clouds dont need strings to hold them up in the sky, God in his wisdom made them to be there like that, to the bible student somewhere there well done bro. the bible is solid on info going right back to the beginning

[Themightyheads]

these biblical arguments and disputes start from way back in the bible till now, the synopsis of the matter is that if you love God and you really want to live for him you will do just that, forgetting about all the religious beliefs and seeking to develop a relationship with him (God) through Christ Jesus. no man can go to God without him.

[Habit7]

^ Over the years I've read the english version of all three books: The Holy Bible (KJV), The Noble Qur'an and The Bhagavad Gita. I hope to read the Torah in english soon.

When you say things like this, makes me question whether or not you actually read my answers to your questions.

The Torah makes up part of the Bible

BTW, the man eh say as yet what sins the angels committed.

Sorry that I didnt reference directly but I said

Pride in rebellion to God (Isaiah 14:12-14). He took a third of the angels with him (Revelation 12:4)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Over the years I've read the english version of all three books: The Holy Bible (KJV), The Noble Qur'an and The Bhagavad Gita. I hope to read the Torah in english soon.

I am sure only reading is not studying but I wanted to give all a fair reading.

So you studied the Qur'an in as much detail as you have studied the Bible, impressive!
Tell me, which Surah did you enjoy the most? Have you read any Hadith?

and why are you so preoccupied with what you think are my preconceived notions? Forget about why I am asking the question and just answer it! You should be confident of your answer, not so?

I have not studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way I have studied the bible, and I consider myself to have a very long way to go with regards to having a comfortable understanding of the bible, what I do have is a proper foundation understanding.

Your preconceived notions are important, it causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome

The pot calling the kettle black!

if you haven't studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way you have studied the Bible, how then can you say

The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.

???

that would be like me saying Royal Castle tastes better than KFC when I have tasted Royal Castle but I've only smelt KFC, nothing more.

It seems that your preconceived notions causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome!

Is that all I said in my post? (this is the part that I talked about earlier) you have gone on, selecting what you NEED from my post (twice) and started another post, what about the rest? Have you nothing to say there?

If you read my first few posts in this thread, and truly understood my posts to AdamB, then you might have had a clue as to why I chose to not continue any studies the Qur'an, lol, would you like me to dig them up for you, if yes, that would be another time, I'm on tapatalk. Oh, and it completely nullifies your KFC vs Royal Castle analogy, completely, lol.

Still, tell me of the relevant information that I have bypassed, and what preconceived notions you are referring to, and the outcome you think, I wanted?

Or are you making a vain attempt to feel good about yourself by seemingly taking my own words and using against me, though my concerns with certain aspects of the Qur'an were clearly stated earlier in this thread.

I had written a long post in order answer to your question, but I deleted most of it, because I wanted you to get to your endgame quickly, and you have, merely reading any holy book on the surface without proper dedicated study (which includes many other books) is tantamount to judging the book by its cover, you have missed out on what is really there, no wonder all you picked up was 'a talking snake' and a 'burning bush'

So I ask again, do you feel you made and educated choice?

You've studied the Bible in detail, but didn't study the Qur'an in as much detail yet you claim to make an educated guess that the Bible is better - how is that different from my KFC analogy?

The preconceived notion that You have your mind set that the Bible is right no matter what.

all you are doing is talking and talking and not really answering the question!

Why is the Bible right and the Qur'an wrong?
Show proof.

[AdamB]

Habit7,

Firstly: So YOUR GOD of the Bible is UNJUST because he gave the angels the ability to turn against him with "pride in rebellion" but man was not given this free will, otherwise man would be damned forever like the angels.

Secondly: I have mentioned before that the false concepts are introduced in books of the Bible with questionable authorship and preservation / authenticity. That is why this notion of Satan taking one-third of the angels with him has been introduced in the Book of REVELATION!!

[AdamB]

Achillies,
To study the Quran, you need to study the Arabic language first.

What does/did your study of the bible entail with respect to language?

English, Hebrew, some Latin, all in little amounts

Sounds like you did a Bible study course where they would introduce propaganda against other religions, mostly Islam because it is the biggest threat.

Those languages except English are "dead" because they are not spoken in any society. Most English translations of the Bible are translated from the Latin Vulgate bible.

[DFC]

Habit7,

Firstly: So YOUR GOD of the Bible is UNJUST because he gave the angels the ability to turn against him with "pride in rebellion" but man was not given this free will, otherwise man would be damned forever like the angels.

Secondly: I have mentioned before that the false concepts are introduced in books of the Bible with questionable authorship and preservation / authenticity. That is why this notion of Satan taking one-third of the angels with him has been introduced in the Book of REVELATION!!

What about answering my previous posts about Quran not being authentic .

[AdamB]

Habit7,

Firstly: So YOUR GOD of the Bible is UNJUST because he gave the angels the ability to turn against him with "pride in rebellion" but man was not given this free will, otherwise man would be damned forever like the angels.

Secondly: I have mentioned before that the false concepts are introduced in books of the Bible with questionable authorship and preservation / authenticity. That is why this notion of Satan taking one-third of the angels with him has been introduced in the Book of REVELATION!!

What about answering my previous posts about Quran not being authentic .

Pal, muslims don't rely on any book, the Quran was MEMORIZED from 1400 plus yrs ago up until now. Mistakes in printing presses are picked up by persons who are Haafiz (memorize) in Quran.

[achillies]

^ Over the years I've read the english version of all three books: The Holy Bible (KJV), The Noble Qur'an and The Bhagavad Gita. I hope to read the Torah in english soon.

I am sure only reading is not studying but I wanted to give all a fair reading.

So you studied the Qur'an in as much detail as you have studied the Bible, impressive!
Tell me, which Surah did you enjoy the most? Have you read any Hadith?

and why are you so preoccupied with what you think are my preconceived notions? Forget about why I am asking the question and just answer it! You should be confident of your answer, not so?

I have not studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way I have studied the bible, and I consider myself to have a very long way to go with regards to having a comfortable understanding of the bible, what I do have is a proper foundation understanding.

Your preconceived notions are important, it causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome

The pot calling the kettle black!

if you haven't studied the Qur'an anywhere close to the way you have studied the Bible, how then can you say

The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.

???

that would be like me saying Royal Castle tastes better than KFC when I have tasted Royal Castle but I've only smelt KFC, nothing more.

It seems that your preconceived notions causes you put aside and bypass relevant information that doesn't suit your outcome!

Is that all I said in my post? (this is the part that I talked about earlier) you have gone on, selecting what you NEED from my post (twice) and started another post, what about the rest? Have you nothing to say there?

If you read my first few posts in this thread, and truly understood my posts to AdamB, then you might have had a clue as to why I chose to not continue any studies the Qur'an, lol, would you like me to dig them up for you, if yes, that would be another time, I'm on tapatalk. Oh, and it completely nullifies your KFC vs Royal Castle analogy, completely, lol.

Still, tell me of the relevant information that I have bypassed, and what preconceived notions you are referring to, and the outcome you think, I wanted?

Or are you making a vain attempt to feel good about yourself by seemingly taking my own words and using against me, though my concerns with certain aspects of the Qur'an were clearly stated earlier in this thread.

I had written a long post in order answer to your question, but I deleted most of it, because I wanted you to get to your endgame quickly, and you have, merely reading any holy book on the surface without proper dedicated study (which includes many other books) is tantamount to judging the book by its cover, you have missed out on what is really there, no wonder all you picked up was 'a talking snake' and a 'burning bush'

So I ask again, do you feel you made and educated choice?

You've studied the Bible in detail, but didn't study the Qur'an in as much detail yet you claim to make an educated guess that the Bible is better - how is that different from my KFC analogy?

The preconceived notion that You have your mind set that the Bible is right no matter what.

all you are doing is talking and talking and not really answering the question!

Why is the Bible right and the Qur'an wrong?
Show proof.

It's quite obvious that you are not reading properly though? Or maybe, my command of English is not as good as I thought.

I have already answered your question, maybe not in the way you would like, but it's an answer none the less, and I would go deeper into it, but..... well because you have not studied anything, by your own admission.

I will repeat again though, for your benefit, my first few posts in this thread were mostly directed at AdamB and by extension, the Qur'an, he has studied it a lot more than me, and easily, easily, more than you, and he could/did not answer the questions, now this post is not directed at him, it's directed at you. Where do you think I got those questions from.....

If you would like for me to provide link to the posts I speak about, let me know, I will do that, for you, once close to a PC, and also, it would be to your benefit to absorb the rest of my initial post, it was not written 'fuh style'

Now you are down on us trying to find out why we chose one over the other, but you having not studied any, dismissed ALL. So for the third time, I ask, did you make an educated choice?

[achillies]

AdamB, your brain amuses me, the languages are dead, but the bible was translated from thesr dead languages, so if I have to study the bible in its current form, I must have an understanding of the languages it was translated from, even if the languages are dead now, this should be obvious, but to you, it's a mystery. Lol

Also, in the bible studies I have done, no propaganda was spread against any religion (ain't nobody got time for that) but you seem guilty for some reason, you should ask yourself why?

[Habit7]

Habit7,

Firstly: So YOUR GOD of the Bible is UNJUST because he gave the angels the ability to turn against him with "pride in rebellion" but man was not given this free will, otherwise man would be damned forever like the angels.

Secondly: I have mentioned before that the false concepts are introduced in books of the Bible with questionable authorship and preservation / authenticity. That is why this notion of Satan taking one-third of the angels with him has been introduced in the Book of REVELATION!!

It seems like you are just trying to bring an equal charge of injustice to the God of the Bible like the one that is levelled against Allah, but it just won't stick.

Firstly: Both man and demons, both created beings, are condemned for the pride and rebellion they both exhibit and both will receive punishment. However, God made a way for man to receive grace not just by a wave of a wand as claims the Quran, but God came as man to live righteousness and suffer the wrath of God. So with God forgiving man, He remains just as the righteousness He achieved as a man its applied to the believer and their punishment is paid for by God.
*God's own righteousness standard of justice satisfied*

Secondly: The Book of Revelation was the last book of the Bible written by the Apostle John who was a disciple and eyewitness to the life and ministry of Jesus. He also said in the book that if anyone adds (or subtracts) to this book they will be accursed...

...600 years later your prophet says no, no, no John is wrong, I will tell you what happened



By this logic, 1200 years later when Joseph Smith read secret golden tablets to come up with the Book of Mormon, Muslims should have become Mormons too. What makes Muhammed's Bible addendum more important than Joseph Smith's?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

It's quite obvious that you are not reading properly though? Or maybe, my command of English is not as good as I thought.

perhaps it is the former, but considering I don't have any issues reading any posts from other users except those that are very badly written, I'd quicker think it is the latter.

I have already answered your question,

please paste it here

By this logic, 1200 years later when Joseph Smith read secret golden tablets to come up with the Book of Mormon, Muslims should have become Mormons too. What makes Muhammed's Bible addendum more important than Joseph Smith's?

I would agree with this logic but the Qur'an is more of an addition to the Torah than it is an addition made to the Bible, since the majority of the similarity is in the Old testament, not so?

[Habit7]

By this logic, 1200 years later when Joseph Smith read secret golden tablets to come up with the Book of Mormon, Muslims should have become Mormons too. What makes Muhammed's Bible addendum more important than Joseph Smith's?

I would agree with this logic but the Qur'an is more of an addition to the Torah than it is an addition made to the Bible, since the majority of the similarity is in the Old testament, not so?

No Muslims acknowledge the NT as the Injeel and say it agrees with Islam, but claim that it was corrupted. They bring no proof of this corruption.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ "no proof" seems to be the norm in here

[achillies]

It's quite obvious that you are not reading properly though? Or maybe, my command of English is not as good as I thought.

perhaps it is the former, but considering I don't have any issues reading any posts from other users except those that are very badly written, I'd quicker think it is the latter.

I have already answered your question,

please paste it here

Oh, but you have displayed lack of understanding before when reading posts by other users, but let's not spin top in mud

You have already posted part of my answer to you, TWICE, so it's safe to say, you actually saw that part, I'm not sure about the rest, so here is the rest of my answer, have at it: The messages in the Bible are in harmony from Genesis to Revelation, with 66 books and written by 38 different pens over a period of nearly 2000 years, the writers are in FULL accord, telling the one story.

The very fact that the sins and weaknesses of prophets, Kings and Priests are laid bare in the scriptures, without any animosity or any desire to colour or whiten them indicates fairness and a loyalty to the truth beyond anything, unfavorable truths are not ignored/hidden, Jesus dies between two thieves,, he was betrayed by his own disciples, they all left him and fled, one even denied him with cursing, the humble origins of disciples are stated and it has been innocently declared that when apostles Peter and John spoke, learned hearers could perceive that they were ignorant and un-learned men, they marvelled, and they took knowledge of them.

From the opening statement to the closing one, there is one theme, the divine plan <~~~~ End of answer.

Again, you have admitted to not studying any book thoroughly, you are pressing others to find out why they chose one over the other, yet I have asked you 3 times about your choice, no answer as yet, then you claim to be able to read properly, if you can, how can you not see one question posted three different times, can you explain?

Yet you continually take portions of people's posts, quote it and ignore the rest, why is this, are you afraid to address the entire thing

For the fourth time: do you think the choice you made was an educated one?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

It's quite obvious that you are not reading properly though? Or maybe, my command of English is not as good as I thought.

perhaps it is the former, but considering I don't have any issues reading any posts from other users except those that are very badly written, I'd quicker think it is the latter.

I have already answered your question,

please paste it here

Oh, but you have displayed lack of understanding before when reading posts by other users, but let's not spin top in mud

lets not.

I have a hard time understanding things that make absolutely no sense

You have already posted part of my answer to you, TWICE, so it's safe to say, you actually saw that part, I'm not sure about the rest, so here is the rest of my answer, have at it: The messages in the Bible are in harmony from Genesis to Revelation, with 66 books and written by 38 different pens over a period of nearly 2000 years, the writers are in FULL accord, telling the one story.

The very fact that the sins and weaknesses of prophets, Kings and Priests are laid bare in the scriptures, without any animosity or any desire to colour or whiten them indicates fairness and a loyalty to the truth beyond anything, unfavorable truths are not ignored/hidden, Jesus dies between two thieves,, he was betrayed by his own disciples, they all left him and fled, one even denied him with cursing, the humble origins of disciples are stated and it has been innocently declared that when apostles Peter and John spoke, learned hearers could perceive that they were ignorant and un-learned men, they marvelled, and they took knowledge of them.

From the opening statement to the closing one, there is one theme, the divine plan <~~~~ End of answer.

your claims here are no better or different from those of any other religion.

AdamB also claims the Qur'an is perfect in its collection, in harmony from cover to cover with not a single contradiction. That Muhammad was a humble man, un-learned for the most part but the Qur'an was revealed to him and others marveled and took knowledge from him. In fact his companions have written volumes on his teachings.

I'm not sure about the "no animosity" part since both books have verses that smite anyone in disagreement with what the book is saying.

So all these claims you have made are just that, claims. It is your opinion that it is perfect, not proof. That is why I ignored it.

Also when quoting, obviously I will only quote things that I have issue with and ask a question about it.

Again, you have admitted to not studying any book thoroughly, you are pressing others to find out why they chose one over the other, yet I have asked you 3 times about your choice, no answer as yet,

I am asking you a question!
Can't I ask which restaurant is healthiest to eat in without having eaten at each?

Your logic is very flawed! You are claiming your book is right. The burden of proof is on you to prove it, not on me to disprove it!
I could have read none of the books, it doesn't change the fact that the burden of proof is on you. You are the one making the claim!

then you claim to be able to read properly, if you can, how can you not see one question posted three different times, can you explain?

because I thought we passed that burden of proof concept a while ago in this thread. Also I asked my question first and you still haven't given any answer with proof.

Yet you continually take portions of people's posts, quote it and ignore the rest, why is this, are you afraid to address the entire thing

as I stated before, when quoting, obviously I will only quote things that I have issue with and ask a question about it.

For the fourth time: do you think the choice you made was an educated one?

I have not chosen any one over the other, so i fail to see how this is a question. Perhaps you need to ask AdamB that.

I think all three books were very enlightening to read. The poetry in the Gita is beautiful and I've heard the Qur'an recited in Arabic and that too is very beautiful to hear. I also enjoy Gregorian Chanting, I have a few tracks on my PC that I listen to every now and then.

[achillies]

It's quite obvious that you are not reading properly though? Or maybe, my command of English is not as good as I thought.

perhaps it is the former, but considering I don't have any issues reading any posts from other users except those that are very badly written, I'd quicker think it is the latter.

I have already answered your question,

please paste it here

Oh, but you have displayed lack of understanding before when reading posts by other users, but let's not spin top in mud

lets not.

I have a hard time understanding things that make absolutely no sense

You have already posted part of my answer to you, TWICE, so it's safe to say, you actually saw that part, I'm not sure about the rest, so here is the rest of my answer, have at it: The messages in the Bible are in harmony from Genesis to Revelation, with 66 books and written by 38 different pens over a period of nearly 2000 years, the writers are in FULL accord, telling the one story.

The very fact that the sins and weaknesses of prophets, Kings and Priests are laid bare in the scriptures, without any animosity or any desire to colour or whiten them indicates fairness and a loyalty to the truth beyond anything, unfavorable truths are not ignored/hidden, Jesus dies between two thieves,, he was betrayed by his own disciples, they all left him and fled, one even denied him with cursing, the humble origins of disciples are stated and it has been innocently declared that when apostles Peter and John spoke, learned hearers could perceive that they were ignorant and un-learned men, they marvelled, and they took knowledge of them.

From the opening statement to the closing one, there is one theme, the divine plan <~~~~ End of answer.

your claims here are no better or different from those of any other religion.

AdamB also claims the Qur'an is perfect in its collection, in harmony from cover to cover with not a single contradiction. That Muhammad was a humble man, un-learned for the most part but the Qur'an was revealed to him and others marveled and took knowledge from him. In fact his companions have written volumes on his teachings.

I'm not sure about the "no animosity" part since both books have verses that smite anyone in disagreement with what the book is saying.

So all these claims you have made are just that, claims. It is your opinion that it is perfect, not proof. That is why I ignored it.

I never claimed that the bible is perfect, I said the entire book, taking it as a whole is in harmony, for a person like you, who skimmed the surface, the plan discussed through the entire book is in perfect harmony, and I dare you to find a contradiction in that plan.....double dare, even triple dare, lol

If the Qur'an was in harmony from cover to cover, then AdamB would have been able to answer my questions earlier in this thread, or maybe you, but he could not, and I am very sure, you could not either, and in my research, I could not find the answer either

You are not sure about the animosity part, well that is expected, maybe when you can actually make a point there with some evidence, then I will address that, not going to pay much mind to unsubstantiated statements

Also when quoting, obviously I will only quote things that I have issue with and ask a question about it.

If the above is true, why did you skip over these points in the first place, only after me having to recite it a page later, you were finally able to say something

Again, you have admitted to not studying any book thoroughly, you are pressing others to find out why they chose one over the other, yet I have asked you 3 times about your choice, no answer as yet,

I am asking you a question!
Can't I ask which restaurant is healthiest to eat in without having eaten at each?

Your logic is very flawed! You are claiming your book is right. The burden of proof is on you to prove it, not on me to disprove it!
I could have read none of the books, it doesn't change the fact that the burden of proof is on you. You are the one making the claim!

Hahaha, the ole burden of proof argument, this is just lazy in my opinion, but I am not claiming it is right, I am telling you why I study this book thoroughly over others, I told you why, cause that is what you asked, isn't it? it is up to you to tell me why I shouldn't study this book, something you will never be able to do, see, I will not speak in a position of authority on things I don't know about, and then beg the person to take up the 'burden of proof' I would simply do my own research, or ask someone who did the research before me, hahaha, this is a superior motive, to seek the truth, not to hide from it and try to prove one better than the other.

And if you are coming, then you better come better than the burning bush, talking snake, your burden of proof arguments, don't tell me you dismissed thousands of words over 10 lines, or maybe you did, I have hard proof as to why I dismissed others, what is yours?

then you claim to be able to read properly, if you can, how can you not see one question posted three different times, can you explain?

because I thought we passed that burden of proof concept a while ago in this thread. Also I asked my question first and you still haven't given any answer with proof.

Yet you continually take portions of people's posts, quote it and ignore the rest, why is this, are you afraid to address the entire thing

as I stated before, when quoting, obviously I will only quote things that I have issue with and ask a question about it.

For the fourth time: do you think the choice you made was an educated one?

I have not chosen any one over the other, so i fail to see how this is a question. Perhaps you need to ask AdamB that.

I think all three books were very enlightening to read. The poetry in the Gita is beautiful and I've heard the Qur'an recited in Arabic and that too is very beautiful to hear. I also enjoy Gregorian Chanting, I have a few tracks on my PC that I listen to every now and then.

You are either slow, or you are slow, I am not asking you if you chose one religion over another, I already know the answer to that, jeez, I am not eben a religious person, I am asking why you dismissed them, that was a choice in case you don't know, do you consider that choice an educated one, since you don't seem to know much about the plans laid out in any of the books

And I am now 100% sure, you have problems reading, because you are always telling me I said something I didn't, I will still try my best to accommodate you still though

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ the only reason I said something eventually on the points I ignored is because you kept bringing it up!

and how can burden of proof be lazy?
Are you then going to conclude the tooth fairy does exist because no one has proven otherwise?

First you take choice to side step my question

I know what you asked, but I am not addressing that,

and then accuse me of ignoring parts of yours

Yet you continually take portions of people's posts, quote it and ignore the rest

Then you claim

For in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive

but then you say

Salvation is not dependant on religion,

You also claim

The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.

and then say

This is why I STUDY the bible,

and assure us that

Faith is required for life

but then you say

I am not even a religious person,

and now you are saying

I never claimed that the bible is perfect,

so what are you trying to say?

[achillies]

^ the only reason I said something eventually on the points I ignored is because you kept bringing it up!

Why are you skipping them in the first place?

and how can burden of proof be lazy?

It is lazy because it relieves you of doing any actual thinking, original thinking, this entire conversation has been me and my thoughts, and you and your unoriginal, selective, 'not well thought out' rebuttals, where is your original thought, do you have any, did you run out of Calvin & Hobbes comics to piggyback on?

Are you then going to conclude the tooth fairy does exist because no one has proven otherwise?

Show me one or several holy books that are written with the tooth-fairy as the subject and I may actually take this straw-man argument seriously, this tooth fairy and Santa Claus arguments are stupid at best, woe be unto those who find it a valid argument
^^And don't take it personal, I know that this is just one of the arguments that you also piggybacked on

First you take choice to side step my question

Why didn't you quote the question that I sidestepped?

and then accuse me of ignoring parts of yours

Yes you ignore parts of posts, it is your methodology, I quote and reply to entire posts, for a reason, your quotes are in parts for a reason also, its playing to an audience, and hiding the truth/context of the original post, and the above post from you is a perfect example, but if you believe the burden of proof is on me, I can see why this may seem normal for you...

Then you claim
achillies wrote:
For in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive
but then you say
achillies wrote:
Salvation is not dependant on religion,

those two statements are in perfect harmony, please take a stab at it and explain why they are not

You also claim
achillies wrote:
The bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and his descendants to the flood, and explanation of why the flood came and what purpose it served in the Divine program, a record of the time immediately following the flood and carries a genealogical line from Adam to Noah to Abraham to the nation of Isreal.
and then say
achillies wrote:
This is why I STUDY the bible,
and assure us that
achillies wrote:
Faith is required for life
but then you say
achillies wrote:
I am not even a religious person,
and now you are saying
achillies wrote:
I never claimed that the bible is perfect,


so what are you trying to say?

The first part should be self-explanatory, even for you <~~ this is exercising faith in you here, do you fell Godly

Are you having problems reconciling the reason I gave for studying the bible, as I said, tell me why I shouldn't, say something

Yes Faith is required for life, we make everyday decisions based on faith, as minute as it may seem, faith is part of human existence, and it can never be removed, but I thought you understood this

I am not a religious person, only go to church for funerals and weddings

And I never claimed the bible is perfect, and you would never be able to show me where I did say that, there is a reason for that, and that reason is duh duh duh duh dummmmm,,,,,I never said it was perfect, it is NOT. I said it is in harmony, definition of Harmony is: agreement in action, opinion, feeling, A pleasing combination of elements in a whole

It was a valiant effort you made in pulling several pieces of posts form different parts of this thread in an effort to use my words out of context, such is the risk we take with modern technology, it can be misused, but I am still here, whether there are attempts to use my posts out of context or not....

And it is not 5 times you have avoided my question, I am keeping count of this, I want to see how long you will avoid it for

For clarity sake, the questions relates to you having dismissed all holy books. By your own admission, you have only read them, not studied them you have not studied them, so, do you think your choice to dismiss them was an educated one?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you said "The bible alone gives an orderly record". You didnt study the Qur'an in detail, so how can you can you say the Bible alone gives an orderly record?

Regarding that silly question you keep asking at the end of your posts: ALL of your reasoning is flawed because you refuse you follow basic logic - when you see the sense in the fact that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, you wouldn't be asking me that question about books that I didn't study or even read.

[achillies]

you said "The bible alone gives an orderly record". You didnt study the Qur'an in detail, so how can you can you say the Bible alone gives an orderly record?

Regarding that silly question you keep asking at the end of your posts: ALL of your reasoning is flawed because you refuse you follow basic logic - when you see the sense in the fact that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, you wouldn't be asking me that question about books that I didn't study or even read.

That's 'part' of what I said, there you go again, you just can't stop :lol::lol:

And you dodged the question for a sixth time, why try to deflect onto me, the question is purely on you, my reasoning has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Was it an 'educated' decision to dismiss these holy books without careful study of any?

Are you going to go for number 7?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I answered you already: I didnt dismiss any, I quite enjoyed reading them.
Do you have to believe everything you read?

how did I take that "part" out of context?

I admire your pride to continue arguing your point even though you cannot get past the Burden of Proof issue. The mere fact your claim about the Bible requires faith means that there is no proof. If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.

There is no logic in your argument against the Burden of Proof.

This was posted much earlier in this thread, take a look

[achillies]

^ I answered you already: I didnt dismiss any, I quite enjoyed reading them.
Do you have to believe everything you read?

how did I take that "part" out of context?

I admire your pride to continue arguing your point even though you cannot get past the Burden of Proof issue. The mere fact your claim about the Bible requires faith means that there is no proof. If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.

There is no logic in your argument against the Burden of Proof.

This was posted much earlier in this thread, take a look

You didn't answer
What you enjoy is irrelevant and none of my business, if I believe everything I read, is also irrelevant to the question. Is isn't about me.

I am assuming that you don't believe what is written in these books (since you have latched on tightly to the utterly lame tooth fairy nonsense argument), since you never studied these books (I shouldn't have to explain to you that there is a difference between deep study and reading), but you have dismissed them, was that an educated decision?
So are you going to answer or are you going to try for revision 8 of your avoidance tactics

[DFC]

^ I answered you already: I didnt dismiss any, I quite enjoyed reading them.
Do you have to believe everything you read?

how did I take that "part" out of context?

I admire your pride to continue arguing your point even though you cannot get past the Burden of Proof issue. The mere fact your claim about the Bible requires faith means that there is no proof. If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.

There is no logic in your argument against the Burden of Proof.

This was posted much earlier in this thread, take a look

You didn't answer
What you enjoy is irrelevant and none of my business, if I believe everything I read, is also irrelevant to the question. Is isn't about me.

I am assuming that you don't believe what is written in these books (since you have latched on tightly to the utterly lame tooth fairy nonsense argument), since you never studied these books (I shouldn't have to explain to you that there is a difference between deep study and reading), but you have dismissed them, was that an educated decision?
So are you going to answer or are you going to try for revision 8 of your avoidance tactics

Dude, you're trippin.

I've been trying to follow your posts and you just dont seem to grasp what Duane is trying to tell you.
He has answered you already, and you're talking about he dismissing and avoidance tactics, when you are the one doing the same thing.

Burden of Proof is on you dude !!!

[AdamB]

^ I answered you already: I didnt dismiss any, I quite enjoyed reading them.
Do you have to believe everything you read?

how did I take that "part" out of context?

I admire your pride to continue arguing your point even though you cannot get past the Burden of Proof issue. The mere fact your claim about the Bible requires faith means that there is no proof. If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.

There is no logic in your argument against the Burden of Proof.

This was posted much earlier in this thread, take a look

You didn't answer
What you enjoy is irrelevant and none of my business, if I believe everything I read, is also irrelevant to the question. Is isn't about me.

I am assuming that you don't believe what is written in these books (since you have latched on tightly to the utterly lame tooth fairy nonsense argument), since you never studied these books (I shouldn't have to explain to you that there is a difference between deep study and reading), but you have dismissed them, was that an educated decision?
So are you going to answer or are you going to try for revision 8 of your avoidance tactics

Dude, you're trippin.

I've been trying to follow your posts and you just dont seem to grasp what Duane is trying to tell you.
He has answered you already, and you're talking about he dismissing and avoidance tactics, when you are the one doing the same thing.

Burden of Proof is on you dude !!!

I agree!! But then this guy believes that GOD come here on Earth, splitting HIMSELF and making HIMSELF LIMITED in the form of a man, for us to kill him...in order that we be saved!!

Whoever believes in this .......has strayed far away from the truth. It cannot be proved, even from the Bible text that they FORGE!

But the real question pertaining to this concept is not how it could be possible but WHY????

May GOD send guidance to those who put their necks on a chopping board holding on to this misguided concept...Ameen.

[achillies]

^ I answered you already: I didnt dismiss any, I quite enjoyed reading them.
Do you have to believe everything you read?

how did I take that "part" out of context?

I admire your pride to continue arguing your point even though you cannot get past the Burden of Proof issue. The mere fact your claim about the Bible requires faith means that there is no proof. If there was proof, there would be no need for faith.

There is no logic in your argument against the Burden of Proof.

This was posted much earlier in this thread, take a look

You didn't answer
What you enjoy is irrelevant and none of my business, if I believe everything I read, is also irrelevant to the question. Is isn't about me.

I am assuming that you don't believe what is written in these books (since you have latched on tightly to the utterly lame tooth fairy nonsense argument), since you never studied these books (I shouldn't have to explain to you that there is a difference between deep study and reading), but you have dismissed them, was that an educated decision?
So are you going to answer or are you going to try for revision 8 of your avoidance tactics

Dude, you're trippin.

I've been trying to follow your posts and you just dont seem to grasp what Duane is trying to tell you.
He has answered you already, and you're talking about he dismissing and avoidance tactics, when you are the one doing the same thing.

Burden of Proof is on you dude !!!

Show me where he answered the question as to whether or not his choice was an educated one, please, cause I don't see it.

And which of his questions have I not answered, burden of proof to show what exactly, why I chose to study the bible over other books?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I am trying to explain to you that I did not make a choice, I read the book and I did not dismiss it nor did I accept it. You on the other hand accepted the Bible over the other books, therefore you need to show why, not me. It's really not that complicated.

You made a claim that the bible alone gives an orderly record of Adam and Noah etc. - when you make a claim you need to back it up with proof. The Qur'an and the Torah also give accounts of Adam and Noah etc, what makes their account any less than that of the Bible? The burden of proof is on the person making the claim i.e. you.

The tooth fairy argument is to demonstrate to you that accepting a claim without proof, we might as well say the tooth fairy is real since no one has deeply studied the tooth fairy and every other fairy enough to show that it doesn't exist.

But you know what, if after all this simple logic and you still don't get it, I don't think you will. So I'm going to stop repeating myself now. Thank you.