The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

Forgiveness of sins past present and future

Hebrews 10:11-14
Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[DFC]

adamb come and fog up de place yes.

The Quran now, is not the original Quran.

It has been changed over time!

Just google or youtube and there are soo much information about it.







http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/


The book itself is full of contradictions and some of it doesnt even makes logical sense.

[MG Man]

I pointed out to AdamB a while back that in the century following the profit's death, there were a few versions floating around, ebfore a 'committee' finally agreed on an 'official' one
needless to say, he had nothing to say on the matter

[DFC]

What kinda GOD NEEDS a son? One who has the attribute of INCAPACITY, so much so that HE needs help!!

what kind of god needs a messenger?

The ONE and ONLY kind who does whatever HE pleases with the PERFECT ATTRIBUTES of KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND JUSTICE!!

FALSE.

Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah, is NOT Perfect, nor is he Just.

Explain to me why 3/4 of muslims living in poverty and caves and the rest living in unimaginable wealth.

Is that a fair and just god?

I posted this before and you refuse to answer, because you cant, but you do know the truth.

Somalia/Ethiopia/Rwanda/Sudan are ancient arab/muslim tribes and kingdoms, why are they forsaken?

Even you Adamb , i'm sure you are a devout Muslim, why aren't you filthy rich like the Saudis?

What makes you different from them?
Does Allah think you are of lesser worth than the Saudis?
The Quran says Allah rewards those who follow the teachings of the Quran and believe in the Prophet and etc and etc.

You should be driving a Ferarri right now then Adamb, and Park it up in your Solid Gold House.

If you arent, then you really need to check yourself.

Face it, in the muslim hierarchy where do you stand?
What about this Muslim brotherhood?


All Muslims should share and help their fellow muslim brothers right, doesnt the Quran say that?
So how much wealth have the Saudi's giving you already?



Riiighhtttt.....Tell me again about your Perfect and Just God now.

You can't see beyond your nose!

This world is a paradise for the Disbelievers and a torment for the believers! The Hereafter is better and EVERLASTING!!!

Well thanks for NOT answering my questions.

You fully well know there is no such thing as Muslim Unity or Brotherhood or Equality or Justice in Islam.

You say the hereafter is better and Everlasting.

What do you mean by that?

I know the Quran says there are a limited number of women in Heaven.

So what all the men gonna be going?

Allyuh will have no choice but to fonldle each other.




Ibn Abbas reported that Allah's Messenger said: I had a chance to look into paradise and I found that majority of the people was poor and I looked into the Fire and there I found the majority constituted by women. (Muslim: bk. 36, no. 6596-6601, Siddiqui)

(Muhammad) passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Bukhari: vol. 1, bk. 6, no. 301, Khan)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

[pioneer]

Does accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour nullify punishment in the Hellfire?

habit7 and Christian folks,

Answer this ONE QUESTION PLEASE!!

Well according to islam we will all burn in hell even if we are the strictest of muslims. You burn in hell till all your sins have been cleansed then it's onto dat one dozen virgins time.

So why pray to a god who sends you to hell anyhow?

[AdamB]

Does accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour nullify punishment in the Hellfire?

habit7 and Christian folks,

Answer this ONE QUESTION PLEASE!!

Well according to islam we will all burn in hell even if we are the strictest of muslims. You burn in hell till all your sins have been cleansed then it's onto dat one dozen virgins time.

It's a shame that positive reinforcement (reward, virgins) doesn't work with most ppl.
So why pray to a god who sends you to hell anyhow?[/quote]
With the hope that you won't!

HE has promised NOT TO PUNISH US IF WE WORSHIP HIM ALONE WITHOUT ANY PARTNERS. That is our right upon HIM, that HE has made encumbent upon HIMSELF.

[AdamB]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

How can he see that when he can't see that the Holy Spirit CHOOSING some above others is BIASED and that someone else paying the dues for his sins leads to more indulgence in sin because THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES OF EVIL ACTIONS!

I wonder if Jesus will get the reward for the little good that they do as well. But wait, according to them, Jesus is GOD so GOD punish HIMSELF for their sins!!

HOW PREPOSTEROUS / NON-SENSICAL IS THEIR CREED!!

[Daran]

Does accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour nullify punishment in the Hellfire?

habit7 and Christian folks,

Answer this ONE QUESTION PLEASE!!

Well according to islam we will all burn in hell even if we are the strictest of muslims. You burn in hell till all your sins have been cleansed then it's onto dat one dozen virgins time.

It's a shame that positive reinforcement (reward, virgins) doesn't work with most ppl.
So why pray to a god who sends you to hell anyhow?[/quote]
With the hope that you won't!

HE has promised NOT TO PUNISH US IF WE WORSHIP HIM ALONE WITHOUT ANY PARTNERS. That is our right upon HIM, that HE has made encumbent upon HIMSELF.

Allah sounds like an egotistical narcissistic a$$hole then.

[AdamB]

Does accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour nullify punishment in the Hellfire?

habit7 and Christian folks,

Answer this ONE QUESTION PLEASE!!

Well according to islam we will all burn in hell even if we are the strictest of muslims. You burn in hell till all your sins have been cleansed then it's onto dat one dozen virgins time.

It's a shame that positive reinforcement (reward, virgins) doesn't work with most ppl.
So why pray to a god who sends you to hell anyhow?[/quote]
With the hope that you won't!

HE has promised NOT TO PUNISH US IF WE WORSHIP HIM ALONE WITHOUT ANY PARTNERS. That is our right upon HIM, that HE has made encumbent upon HIMSELF.

Allah sounds like an egotistical narcissistic a$$hole then.

Those in open relationships generally have that view. Exclusivity is not in their "dictionary".

[Habit7]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

Well as a Christian we see God being holy (separate from us) yet He condescends and displays attributes that a communicable to us so that we can perceive Him and respond to Him even though we understand in the end that He gives us the power to do it in the first place.

Likewise if there is a god that wants to challenge the God of the Bible their communicable attributes should be consistent with who they claim to be. And if Allah claims to be just, yet his actions are unjust, it is evident no matter how fallible our intelligence is, the same standard he wants us to acknowledge him by, he fails to maintain.

[Habit7]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

How can he see that when he can't see that the Holy Spirit CHOOSING some above others is BIASED and that someone else paying the dues for his sins leads to more indulgence in sin because THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES OF EVIL ACTIONS!

I wonder if Jesus will get the reward for the little good that they do as well. But wait, according to them, Jesus is GOD so GOD punish HIMSELF for their sins!!

HOW PREPOSTEROUS / NON-SENSICAL IS THEIR CREED!!

The Holy Spirit is free to choose as we all deserve nothing. Some angels sinned ONCE and they are doomed forever as demons, far less for us who sins countless times, yet there remains a means of forgiveness through Christ. The Holy Spirit choosing is GRACE exercised on His part but we still bear the responsibility of our own actions if we reject.

Roman 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

If someone claims to be converted yet continues in a lifestyle of sin, then they are considered a false convert. Christians dont put themselves into sin knowing that it will be covered by God's grace.

[AdamB]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

Well as a Christian we see God being holy (separate from us) yet He condescends and displays attributes that a communicable to us so that we can perceive Him and respond to Him even though we understand in the end that He gives us the power to do it in the first place.
How did the prophets of the Old Testament perceive and respond to GOD when they neither saw HIM nor did HE "possess" them? Your claim that HE needs to condescend to your level and display attributes that are communicable to you...all that does is that you change GOD from GOD to man...it is null and void...and a lowly desire!

Likewise if there is a god that wants to challenge the God of the Bible their communicable attributes should be consistent with who they claim to be. And if Allah claims to be just, yet his actions are unjust, it is evident no matter how fallible our intelligence is, the same standard he wants us to acknowledge him by, he fails to maintain.

They are both the same GOD.

GOD = (you fill in here)

ALLAH= The ONE TRUE GOD who is worshipped out of love, magnification and longing.

Simply, ALLAH is the arabic word for GOD!

[AdamB]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

How can he see that when he can't see that the Holy Spirit CHOOSING some above others is BIASED and that someone else paying the dues for his sins leads to more indulgence in sin because THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES OF EVIL ACTIONS!

I wonder if Jesus will get the reward for the little good that they do as well. But wait, according to them, Jesus is GOD so GOD punish HIMSELF for their sins!!

HOW PREPOSTEROUS / NON-SENSICAL IS THEIR CREED!!

The Holy Spirit is free to choose as we all deserve nothing. Some angels sinned ONCE and they are doomed forever as demons, far less for us who sins countless times, yet there remains a means of forgiveness through Christ. The Holy Spirit choosing is GRACE exercised on His part but we still bear the responsibility of our own actions if we reject.

Roman 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

If someone claims to be converted yet continues in a lifestyle of sin, then they are considered a false convert. Christians dont put themselves into sin knowing that it will be covered by God's grace.

There you go, contradicting yourself. You accuse ALLAH of injustice but the angels only sin once and they doomed forever as demons! Is this not hypocrisy? Why forgiveness for you and not the angels?

Another fairy tale...Angels do not sin, they do exactly as they are commanded by GOD!

[Habit7]

They are both the same GOD.

GOD = (you fill in here)

ALLAH= The ONE TRUE GOD who is worshipped out of love, magnification and longing.

Simply, ALLAH is the arabic word for GOD!

I agree Allah is the Arabic word for God, but the God of the Bible is a triune being. The god of the Quran is a deity that attempts to piggyback on the credentials of the God of the Bible while denying a triune nature.

There you go, contradicting yourself. You accuse ALLAH of injustice but the angels only sin once and they doomed forever as demons! Is this not hypocrisy? Why forgiveness for you and not the angels?

Another fairy tale...Angels do not sin, they do exactly as they are commanded by GOD!

I fail to see any hypocrisy there. The angels sinned: there is punishment. Man sinned: God came as man to die in his place to absorb the punishment of those who believe in Him.

God choose to redeem man by sending the Son. Fallen angels have no advocate.

[AdamB]

They are both the same GOD.

GOD = (you fill in here)

ALLAH= The ONE TRUE GOD who is worshipped out of love, magnification and longing.

Simply, ALLAH is the arabic word for GOD!

I agree Allah is the Arabic word for God, but the God of the Bible is a triune being. The god of the Quran is a deity that attempts to piggyback on the credentials of the God of the Bible while denying a triune nature.
I need to remind you that the bible was not written in English...Jesus spoke ARamaic which is pretty close to Arabic, he may have spoken ALLAH when referring to GOD.
Well, you tell me - what was the word spoken by jesus for GOD?

There you go, contradicting yourself. You accuse ALLAH of injustice but the angels only sin once and they doomed forever as demons! Is this not hypocrisy? Why forgiveness for you and not the angels?

Another fairy tale...Angels do not sin, they do exactly as they are commanded by GOD!

I fail to see any hypocrisy there. The angels sinned: there is punishment. Man sinned: God came as man to die in his place to absorb the punishment of those who believe in Him.

God choose to redeem man by sending the Son. Fallen angels have no advocate.

It's simple, if you desire to worship a man, then do so...That worship will never reach GOD. And you will be among the losers on that day...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Oh BTW

The Islamic Allah is unjust if he forgives sinners without punishment. If you believe suicide bombings are wrong (nudge nudge wink wink) when one takes scores to the grave with him, and Allah can just say, I forgive you, come to Paradise, that is unjust.

you use your own limited human judgement to judge an infallible God?

Well as a Christian we see God being holy (separate from us) yet He condescends and displays attributes that a communicable to us so that we can perceive Him and respond to Him even though we understand in the end that He gives us the power to do it in the first place.

Likewise if there is a god that wants to challenge the God of the Bible their communicable attributes should be consistent with who they claim to be. And if Allah claims to be just, yet his actions are unjust, it is evident no matter how fallible our intelligence is, the same standard he wants us to acknowledge him by, he fails to maintain.

wiping out 99% of life on earth in a flood was just?

is wrath ever just?

[Habit7]

Only for the Creator of all things against a fallen and rebellious creation.

[AdamB]

Only for the Creator of all things against a fallen and rebellious creation.

nancy stories galore!! what sins did these angels commit?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Only for the Creator of all things against a fallen and rebellious creation.

why kill all the animals though?

surely they were'nt fallen and rebellious

[Habit7]

Pride in rebellion to God (Isaiah 14:12-14). He took a third of the angels with him (Revelation 12:4)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

just to expand on this point regarding angels:
The Bible tells us angels have free will and can commit sin and be cast out by God.
The Qur'an on the other hand tells us that, unlike man, angels do not have free will and can only carry out Allah's commands.

How can we know which is true?

[Habit7]

I know for me I choose the one with the more corroborated truth claims, consistency and set the precedent 600 years before.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

the Vedas were there thousands of years before and what about the Torah? That was there before too.

[bluesteel29]

just to expand on this point regarding angels:
The Bible tells us angels have free will and can commit sin and be cast out by God.
The Qur'an on the other hand tells us that, unlike man, angels do not have free will and can only carry out Allah's commands.

How can we know which is true?

u mean which lie should we believe

[Habit7]

The Torah makes up part of the Bible, and I dont know if the Vedas speak about angels.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Torah makes up part of the Bible, and I dont know if the Vedas speak about angels.

I meant if age was a factor of authenticity as you stated

[DFC]

The Torah makes up part of the Bible, and I dont know if the Vedas speak about angels.

I meant if age was a factor of authenticity as you stated

There are Devata's and Devi's which are the Christian equivalent to Angels.

[Chimera]

Only for the Creator of all things against a fallen and rebellious creation.

nancy stories galore!! ?

this from the guy who believes his holy book was brought down by a angel from allah

[Habit7]

The Torah makes up part of the Bible, and I dont know if the Vedas speak about angels.

I meant if age was a factor of authenticity as you stated

That was in reference to the comparison you made with contradicting views of angels between Judeo-Christianity and Islam. However age by itself it not a substantial factor in authenticity.