Firearms User License HELP

[Chimera]

all that stats

how much legal fire arms were used in crimes ?

[alfa]

Sw MP 15-22 is a high powered and sophisticated weapon, ok then.

[Habit7]

all that stats

how much legal fire arms were used in crimes ?

Investigations conducted by the TTPS have also revealed that approximately 100 firearms possessed under FULs issued under the Act that is to say, licences under which firearms are lawfully possessed were detected as involved in incidents of crime including murders, suicides and robberies which occurred during 2017-2021.

Additionally, intelligence received from our foreign partners indicate that 30 firearms which were brought into the country by licensed firearms dealers were found in the possession of persons who were not FUL holders and were used in crimes including murder.
https://newsday.co.tt/2024/07/04/prime- ... nt-on-ssa/

Those are the firearms, the concern as well is for the ammo which is less traceable and possibly is used in many shootings.

[pugboy]

why would you need foreign partners to say that a legal dealer imported gun was given out illegally?

if a person was caught illegally with a dealer supplied gun, the serial should be traceable as part of dealer serial numbers logged

[Chimera]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

[16 cycles]

Multiple tools or tools that can deal with multiple individuals was a good move by GG.

Did corruption stop when GG left?

[pugboy]

are citizens safer against criminals now ?

[Habit7]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

This is a non sequitur.

There was a rogue body in SSA that was militarising and amassing arms and ammunition some of which is not accounted for.

Simultaneously, there was and increase in the issuance of FULs, variations, firearms dealers licenses and ammo. Added to that, there were several allegations of bribery and corruption in the process.

There is NO INFORMATION that says citizens are not getting FULs now. The PM nor the COP has said that.

If 100 of legal guns were used in crimes and it is only 0.00000001% then TT has 10 billion guns, according to your maths.

Illegal guns are harder to curb by its very nature of illegality. But if legal guns are not only being used in killings, to intimidate, to brandish in robberies and to be owned by accused criminals, it is problem. And an even bigger problem is if ammo meant for training and use for legal guns, is finding itself being used in illegal guns.

The PM is informing the public and putting the facts on record. If you don't want to hear it or want to listen to GG whisper sweet nothings that none of the licensed firearms he issued were ever used in a crime or murder, you can choose to do so.

[alfa]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

This is a non sequitur.

There was a rogue body in SSA that was militarising and amassing arms and ammunition some of which is not accounted for.

Simultaneously, there was and increase in the issuance of FULs, variations, firearms dealers licenses and ammo. Added to that, there were several allegations of bribery and corruption in the process.

There is NO INFORMATION that says citizens are not getting FULs now. The PM nor the COP has said that.

If 100 of legal guns were used in crimes and it is only 0.00000001% then TT has 10 billion guns, according to your maths.

Illegal guns are harder to curb by its very nature of illegality. But if legal guns are not only being used in killings, to intimidate, to brandish in robberies and to be owned by accused criminals, it is problem. And an even bigger problem is if ammo meant for training and use for legal guns, is finding itself being used in illegal guns.

The PM is informing the public and putting the facts on record. If you don't want to hear it or want to listen to GG whisper sweet nothings that none of the licensed firearms he issued were ever used in a crime or murder, you can choose to do so.

Tell me you can't answer a question without telling me you can't or won't answer a question
The total amount of provisionals issued last year was less than 30 so your point is mute. And yes I know it for a fact cuz I was one of the recipients. If you think that's an acceptable number given that 25000+ are still waiting and taking her to court over same then just say so.

[zoom rader]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

This is a non sequitur.

There was a rogue body in SSA that was militarising and amassing arms and ammunition some of which is not accounted for.

Simultaneously, there was and increase in the issuance of FULs, variations, firearms dealers licenses and ammo. Added to that, there were several allegations of bribery and corruption in the process.

There is NO INFORMATION that says citizens are not getting FULs now. The PM nor the COP has said that.

If 100 of legal guns were used in crimes and it is only 0.00000001% then TT has 10 billion guns, according to your maths.

Illegal guns are harder to curb by its very nature of illegality. But if legal guns are not only being used in killings, to intimidate, to brandish in robberies and to be owned by accused criminals, it is problem. And an even bigger problem is if ammo meant for training and use for legal guns, is finding itself being used in illegal guns.

The PM is informing the public and putting the facts on record. If you don't want to hear it or want to listen to GG whisper sweet nothings that none of the licensed firearms he issued were ever used in a crime or murder, you can choose to do so.

SSA is PNM appointed idiots and these are PNM Christians ppl.

[zoom rader]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

This is a non sequitur.

There was a rogue body in SSA that was militarising and amassing arms and ammunition some of which is not accounted for.

Simultaneously, there was and increase in the issuance of FULs, variations, firearms dealers licenses and ammo. Added to that, there were several allegations of bribery and corruption in the process.

There is NO INFORMATION that says citizens are not getting FULs now. The PM nor the COP has said that.

If 100 of legal guns were used in crimes and it is only 0.00000001% then TT has 10 billion guns, according to your maths.

Illegal guns are harder to curb by its very nature of illegality. But if legal guns are not only being used in killings, to intimidate, to brandish in robberies and to be owned by accused criminals, it is problem. And an even bigger problem is if ammo meant for training and use for legal guns, is finding itself being used in illegal guns.

The PM is informing the public and putting the facts on record. If you don't want to hear it or want to listen to GG whisper sweet nothings that none of the licensed firearms he issued were ever used in a crime or murder, you can choose to do so.

Tell me you can't answer a question without telling me you can't or won't answer a question
The total amount of provisionals issued last year was less than 30 so your point is mute. And yes I know it for a fact cuz I was one of the recipients. If you think that's an acceptable number given that 25000+ are still waiting and taking her to court over same then just say so.

Habit7 is a very deceitful lil Kant , he always ask a question when he cant answer. Its a PNM Habit

[pugboy]

you hit the nail on the head there
throwing back questions as answers

[16 cycles]

2010 to now...

Philbert (2010)
Gibbs(2010 to 2012)
Williams (2012 to 2018)
GG (2018 to 2021)
Jacob (2021 to 2022)
Erla (2022 to present)

To go through all those CoPs and no answer....if those CoPs even got the file....not blaming Erla here....she just end up with the hot potatoes....knowing when she applied it would be hers but no plan how to resolve these issues...no blame

[pugboy]

it’s under gg the dealers got full access to the dept
before your application was thrown in a pile in the vault and only if you really had contacts high up you could inquire about your application but most times there wasn’t even a proper system for them to go look it up as a priority

under gg he made the dept work and that’s when the dealers took over and could call their ppl inside to pull your file and move it accordingly

2010 to now...

Philbert (2010)
Gibbs(2010 to 2012)
Williams (2012 to 2018)
GG (2018 to 2021)
Jacob (2021 to 2022)
Erla (2022 to present)

To go through all those CoPs and no answer....if those CoPs even got the file....not blaming Erla here....she just end up with the hot potatoes....knowing when she applied it would be hers but no plan how to resolve these issues...no blame

[16 cycles]

That sounding just like LO...talk to the driving school on how to guarantee a pass...

[pugboy]

you either went all out via a dealer from start of application or apply yourself and then inquire for yourself

the signal was when you go in the ful dept to inquire and the cops there tell you “sir your application approved, it just waiting on signature(with a smile)”
then you would have to check/pay a dealer to get it to move

tbh i think those ful dept cops were running the racket on their own with the dealers

That sounding just like LO...talk to the driving school on how to guarantee a pass...

[16 cycles]

Whistleblower legislation pass...think this will blow up?

[Habit7]

so whats your take on this situation Habit?

dont let the citizens get guns because .00000001 % of the legal guns were supposedly used in crimes ?

This is a non sequitur.

There was a rogue body in SSA that was militarising and amassing arms and ammunition some of which is not accounted for.

Simultaneously, there was and increase in the issuance of FULs, variations, firearms dealers licenses and ammo. Added to that, there were several allegations of bribery and corruption in the process.

There is NO INFORMATION that says citizens are not getting FULs now. The PM nor the COP has said that.

If 100 of legal guns were used in crimes and it is only 0.00000001% then TT has 10 billion guns, according to your maths.

Illegal guns are harder to curb by its very nature of illegality. But if legal guns are not only being used in killings, to intimidate, to brandish in robberies and to be owned by accused criminals, it is problem. And an even bigger problem is if ammo meant for training and use for legal guns, is finding itself being used in illegal guns.

The PM is informing the public and putting the facts on record. If you don't want to hear it or want to listen to GG whisper sweet nothings that none of the licensed firearms he issued were ever used in a crime or murder, you can choose to do so.

Tell me you can't answer a question without telling me you can't or won't answer a question
The total amount of provisionals issued last year was less than 30 so your point is mute. And yes I know it for a fact cuz I was one of the recipients. If you think that's an acceptable number given that 25000+ are still waiting and taking her to court over same then just say so.

1) what element of his question I didn't answer?
2) You erroneously said that there is no criteria for a FUL. Your word on the subject is not trustworthy.
3) I think you are trying to say my point is moot, not mute.
4) 25000+ stems from applications predating this CoP


Still going guns
Police: No hold on granting FULs

Alexander Bruzual Aug 10, 2023 Updated Aug 10, 2023

The Trinidad and Tobago Police Service said there are no holds on the granting of Firearm User’s Licences (FULs) to applicants.
This is according to Deputy Commissioner of Police Winston Maharaj, who was speaking yesterday at a TTPS news conference at the Police Administration Building in Port of Spain.
Maharaj was responding to questions from reporters who pointed out that 28 people were granted leave on Tuesday to bring legal action against the office of the Commissioner of Police for what they allege are long delays with regard to them getting FULs.

Maharaj did not comment on the court matter directly but said, contrary to statements in the public domain, there was no hold related to the granting of FULs.

“The issue of persons taking civil actions against the office of the Commissioner of Police as it relates to FUL applications is something that is ongoing. I will not want to delve into that particular issue, but with respect to the second question, there is no hold as it relates to the granting of FULs. The process is a rigid one and it takes a lot of time, and you would appreciate that granting a licence for a citizen to hold a firearm is in fact a serious responsibility and the considerations for such granting by way of an investigation will take a particular time to complete. But the short answer to the question is no, there is no hold, it (the process of granting FULs) continues,” he said.

Green light

Twenty-eight citizens were yesterday given the green light to proceed with individual legal action against the Office of the Police Commissioner for significant delays in the decision-making process concerning their applications for FULs.

The matter came up for hearing before High Court judge Justice Nadia Kangaloo.

The 28 claimants were represented by Jagdeo Singh, Leon Kalicharan, Karina Singh and Vashisht Seepersad.

The application of the attorneys was successful and all 28 claimants were granted leave to pursue their similar hybrid judicial review and constitutional motion cases.

The legal action initiated by the claimants will seek a series of declarations addressing the protracted delays, along with compelling Police Commissioner Erla Harewood-Christopher to make a definitive decision on their FUL applications within a week’s time.

In the application, the attorneys explained that their clients had all been granted provisional FULs under the tenure of former police commissioner Gary Griffith.

It was contended that these licences were issued after “rigorous vetting and application procedures”, followed by completion of requisite training and certification by registered firearm instructors.

However, when Griffith vacated office, the group encountered delays in the decisions of the granting of full FULs under subsequent acting commissioner McDonald Jacob, as well as the current commissioner.

The delays, court documents revealed, ranged between 22 and 25 months.

And while it was submitted by the attorneys that the Firearms Act does not stipulate a specific time-frame for FUL decisions, the claimants’ legal team contends that a “reasonable time-frame” should have been observed, given the procedural expectations outlined in the licensing provisions of the Act.

https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/s ... 2157e.html

[alfa]

1. The man simply asked if you believe citizens should be able to own or not own firearms despite some having being used in crimes. The whole doctoral thesis is unnescessary and frankly shows you are deliberately being obtuse
2. The FUL criteria or lack thereof has nothing to do with the present topic at hand but I distinctly recalled that when pushed to comment on what criteria she used to dertermine who needed a firearm your response was "she uses no discretion except in the discretion she uses" or some nonsense to that effect.
3. Gramatical error, sue me.
4.It's still 25000 plus that she would have known about before accepting the job and graciously accepting two extensions. You know what they say about if you can't handle the heat.

[Habit7]

1) so I answered him
2) it was a sarcastic response to what you were saying which was there is no criteria except for the criteria.
3)spelling error
4)cool whatever, ppl are still getting FUL, the corruption in the system is being weeded out and ppl are given the info

[zoom rader]

1) so I answered him
2) it was a sarcastic response to what you were saying which was there is no criteria except for the criteria.
3)spelling error
4)cool whatever, ppl are still getting FUL, the corruption in the system is being weeded out and ppl are given the info

U still never answered the man question

[Chimera]

Lemme stop saying anything yes. At the end of the day this whole situation doesn't affect me.

[pugboy]

you now realize how some ppl are experts at spinning nonsense talk in a circle

[zoom rader]

you now realize how some ppl are experts at spinning nonsense talk in a circle

Yup Habit7 never answer a question that will incriminate as a known kant.

These are very dishonest ppl

[Chimera]

1) so I answered him
2) it was a sarcastic response to what you were saying which was there is no criteria except for the criteria.
3)spelling error
4)cool whatever, ppl are still getting FUL, the corruption in the system is being weeded out and ppl are given the info

U still never answered the man question

This corruption you talking about....is from Gary tenure alone or from all the other commissioners for the last 20 years?

[pugboy]

according to rowlee ful corruption only ever happened under gg

[redmanjp]

So, is it that most of the corruption was limited to moving the applications from 1 desk to another - if so wouldn't it be a good idea to have a legal expedited process similar to getting an expedited passport where there is a legit fee? this would cut out most of that corruption.

the criteria can be where someone has already been threatened before or been a victim of a crime especially as a business owner.

[Chimera]

D only people who don't want GG as commissioner is criminals

[pugboy]

rowlee said on national tv he controls how many are given out
so they would never put in a system to expedite..

So, is it that most of the corruption was limited to moving the applications from 1 desk to another - if so wouldn't it be a good idea to have a legal expedited process similar to getting an expedited passport where there is a legit fee? this would cut out most of that corruption.

the criteria can be where someone has already been threatened before or been a victim of a crime especially as a business owner.

[Habit7]

This corruption you talking about....is from Gary tenure alone or from all the other commissioners for the last 20 years?

No doubt there was corruption before GG tenure, but with the exponential increase in issuances there was an increase in corruption, making it easier to gather evidence. But it is officers and civilians who have been charged so far, not the CoP.

D only people who don't want GG as commissioner is criminals

Why do you say so? Crime was higher in 2019 compared to now.