The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

heh. bigot you called me. heh.

keep it coming...aren't you UTTERLY against Islam?

[Kasey]

Why do you constantly put human limitations and blatantly say you undersatand God or the concept of it?

Do you not know that human limitations, compared to God is also infinite?

We were having a discussion on WHERE IS GOD and have been side-tracked.

To resume: (comments on the listed points welcome)

1) Do we all agree that GOD existed alone before HE created anything else?

2) Where did HE exist then if there was nowhere (creation) for HIM to be (like you all are claiming now)?

3) When HE created ALL Creation with all that we know of and all that we don't know of...Where did HE put Creation?

4) Did HE put Creation within HIMSELF? (so that Creation dwell/exists in HIM)

5) Did HE now dwell in Creation (like you are suggesting, leaving where HE existed before)?

6) Does HE have the ability and choice to be in the Creation or out of it or partly in/out?

You do cannot attempt to control a PUBLIC forum thread. Deal with it, and know that there always be someone who tries to crawl up the other end of you. As for you questions (cause I didnt see any consensus to aggree with ur questions), I leaving work now.

If you want to know the hindu standpoint, read the Hindu scriptures. If you want to know, what the average hindu person understands from the hindu scriptures, stay here and read orn without telling them they are wrong....ever.

[mamoo_pagal]

Duane,
Muslims are not oblivious of philosophical ideas and innovated practises in religion. We are well aware of these, many muslims groups have deviated and delved deep into these, just google SUFISM.

Christians, as evident from Dspike's rantings, have also done this. The difference is that the knowledge has been lost or corrupted and the one's on the right path were executed centuries ago. Now they seem to have their flock in awe of their putrid ideas. The core of their belief system is based on philosophic ideas. How come the Jews don't have this also? Because they held fast to their scriptures (Torah), although they changed some laws to suit their desires. However they maintained the correct concept of GOD, well most of them.

I NEVER said Muslims are oblivious of philosophical ideas or of anything.

I said that YOU are oblivious and bigoted. You continue to bad talk other religious beliefs even though you admit that you have never read their texts or understand their teachings.

Your opinion is your opinion. You are clearly oblivious of the knowledge I have gained in Islam about GOD and man. For the purpose of this thread's discussion I present the views of Islam not my personal opinion.
Who eh like it and who vex loss!!!
One day you will have no excuse that you didn't get the heads up...

LOL you do not know me.

No where in the teachings of Islam does it say one should be narrow minded, bigoted and pompous - yet you hold strongly to those traits.

The prophets also exibited these traits? So their respective people sought to exile, kill, hang, etc...

Bigoted = utterly intolerant of other creeds.

I am not utterly intolerant, otherwise I might seek to find all of you and .....

but seriously, if to be tolerant is to BELIEVE that other creeds are also correct (like Dspike and general hindu philosophy - correct me if I'm wrong), then I AM INTOLERANT but let me make it clear, others are free to practise and believe what they wish, it is their choice. I don't have a problem with that unless it directly affects me or oppresses me in some way.

Megadoc, RedFraction and nismotrinidappa are also BIGOTS because they believe that Jesus died for their sins and they will be saved because they accept him as their lord and saviour. All others will be doomed to hell. Is that more or less right guys?

BIGOTS are also ABA Trading, DFC, Dizzy, Mamoo, MajTom...but wait nah, is real BIGOTS here!!!

oooh finally I get classed with some intelligent ppl (about time). Pal do u even know what i bigot is?

[maj. tom]

heh. bigot you called me. heh.

keep it coming...aren't you UTTERLY against Islam?

keep it coming? Of course I'm not against any religion or beliefs. But let just get back a bit and quote myself since you obviously did not care to read it before. This is tedious, repeating oneself and you never read it.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:49 am

MajTom,
If I don't know, then I won't be held accountable if I do something disliked.

If I know and I choose to answer, I can lie and say that I do as my religion prescribes (but I won't do that).

If I know and I choose to answer, I will tell the truth. If my actions are against what my religion prescribes, that makes me HUMAN. All men sin, make mistakes but few repent and turn back to GOD.

Does anyone else here give FULL DISCLOSURE? Some are TOO DAMN FAST!! They need to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

MajTom,
Are you from a Hindu background or sympathetic to Hindus?
How many questions have I been asked?
How many are you willing to answer?
What are your thoughts on double standards?

AdamB if you just had some tolerance, enough to go back and read people's posts on this thread you would not be making the usual circular arguments over and over and then portraying such a high level of ignorance that the majority of the people on this forum have dismissed you and your views just because you don't understand how to communicate with people who think differently from you.

And the main point of 90% of these arguments are these people asking you to think and give reasoning and logic as an intelligent human being. People here have asked you questions over and over to try to UNDERSTAND your reasoning behind all your crass attacks and heavily accusatory and ignorant replies. You constantly give vague, non-sequitur responses or try to undermine the person's character by with inflammatory judgments and cognitive biases toward them, usually in the form of referring them to another circular question with no answer to define your stance and reasoning in these arguments.

This forum is a discussion and you have really not adhered to the tolerance, higher esteem and respect that is promoted and expected by the higher class internet community. People who can spell and construct communicative sentences to clearly put out their ideas for the world to read. We come here to exchange ideas to try to understand the world better everyday. You do not follow this prerogative. And this isn't some sort of personal attack on you alone. Lots of people do it, and even I did it when I first started out here, but was soon corrected but older, more tolerant heads. But you have become the highlight of this thread's last 100 pages or so with everyone coming to the same conclusion about you. Over and over. You constantly claim to have the high education and high salary, well then you should be one of those people who understands their greater responsibility to society and understand what tolerance is and how to conduct yourself when you feel you have been unjustly over-exposed.

I agree with you that it's your own business how many wives you have and what you do at your home and to whom and how you pray, your kids, etc. I do see that people here have attacked you in those areas, but I hardly see it as a personal attack on you, with the exception of a few. DFC you have been misquoting or wrongly sourcing information about the man's religion and he has every right to respond with the appropriate correction and accepted interpretation by the authority. But the other people have been asking those other things to try to understand how you can function in Trinidad's Western democratic society with all the freedoms and rights that most people cherish sincerely, but yet quote your beliefs to heart, tell others they are wrong, and yet at the same time still morally uphold yourself to the conflicting agendas or doctrine your sect of religion incoherently supports while you live here and enjoy the life our society offers.

I for one am not going to question your religion because you are entitled to your choices, because those are part of your Universal Human Rights. You can believe whatever makes you keep living every morning. Just because you don't understand something or processes that other people do understand, don't try to tell people that what you believe and think is right and will be so forever. Your closed mind to ideas of tolerance on homosexuality and fairness, human rights, sexism, the role of humans in their own advancement (called science, it's not something that was given to us, we created science by our own highly intelligent, logical brains and learned to identify bias in observations and inferences), freedom of speech and so many more problems in this world are not unique to your religion.

What you chose to believe in your time on earth here is your business. Yes it's your business and not anyone else's. So why don't you treat people that same way you would like to be treated? If you think people are going to hell and all that, isn't that their business? Can you tone down your fisheye lens theistic convictions of everyone else on this thread that make your sect such a heavily exemplified violent and intolerant stereotype in the entire world? But then you decide to adamantly tell people what to believe, and that your religion is right and give them no explanation or when they ask the whys you pull out your AK-47. You are constantly on the warpath anytime someone asks you anything.







I have no affiliations nor bias toward any religion, god(s) or unobservable, defying human logic beings; they're all what Penn & Teller would call it. I don't know why you are asking me that because I have made my opinions of these things quite clear in the past on this forum.

I hold my standards and try to uphold my morality to the same high standards set by the true understanding of the Scientific process under peer review. There is a set precedent on how to conduct a fair experiment and account for errors, and if there is contradictory evidence to the Standard Model, then it is acknowledged and the due process to explain the observation is undertaken.

From real education comes tolerance and peace with the existence and philosophy of other people, and intolerance toward violation of human rights, injustice, unfairness and collective retardation of our advancement. This education is not what you can learn at a university alone. (Given that alone, so many people just go to University and do not understand the foundation and principles of the work they study and just mechanically learn what is required to pass, albeit very successfully). I do try to conduct myself and my morality mirroring the same standards that scientists, doctors and engineers uphold and pledge to carry forward for the constant improvement to ourselves and the vision to make the world more comfortable, more insightful and more hopeful for the next generation of our timely species.

Most times I wonder if you're ever even worth the reply. But I would like others to take note of your approach in this thread at least.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Duane,
Muslims are not oblivious of philosophical ideas and innovated practises in religion. We are well aware of these, many muslims groups have deviated and delved deep into these, just google SUFISM.

Christians, as evident from Dspike's rantings, have also done this. The difference is that the knowledge has been lost or corrupted and the one's on the right path were executed centuries ago. Now they seem to have their flock in awe of their putrid ideas. The core of their belief system is based on philosophic ideas. How come the Jews don't have this also? Because they held fast to their scriptures (Torah), although they changed some laws to suit their desires. However they maintained the correct concept of GOD, well most of them.

I NEVER said Muslims are oblivious of philosophical ideas or of anything.

I said that YOU are oblivious and bigoted. You continue to bad talk other religious beliefs even though you admit that you have never read their texts or understand their teachings.

Your opinion is your opinion. You are clearly oblivious of the knowledge I have gained in Islam about GOD and man. For the purpose of this thread's discussion I present the views of Islam not my personal opinion.
Who eh like it and who vex loss!!!
One day you will have no excuse that you didn't get the heads up...

LOL you do not know me.

No where in the teachings of Islam does it say one should be narrow minded, bigoted and pompous - yet you hold strongly to those traits.

The prophets also exibited these traits? So their respective people sought to exile, kill, hang, etc...

Bigoted = utterly intolerant of other creeds.

I am not utterly intolerant, otherwise I might seek to find all of you and .....

but seriously, if to be tolerant is to BELIEVE that other creeds are also correct (like Dspike and general hindu philosophy - correct me if I'm wrong), then I AM INTOLERANT but let me make it clear, others are free to practise and believe what they wish, it is their choice. I don't have a problem with that unless it directly affects me or oppresses me in some way.

Megadoc, RedFraction and nismotrinidappa are also BIGOTS because they believe that Jesus died for their sins and they will be saved because they accept him as their lord and saviour. All others will be doomed to hell. Is that more or less right guys?

BIGOTS are also ABA Trading, DFC, Dizzy, Mamoo, MajTom...but wait nah, is real BIGOTS here!!!

You are either kidding or truly incapable of reasoning.

I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult, but here goes:
Stating your belief and opinion does not make you a bigot.
Claiming your point of view ALONE is correct and that everyone else are lost and misguided fools, makes you a bigot.

[d spike]

...if to be tolerant is to BELIEVE that other creeds are also correct (like Dspike and general hindu philosophy - correct me if I'm wrong)...

Yes, you are wrong.
You are wrong on two points.
1. I never said I BELIEVE other creeds are correct. When referring to my writings, you need to rely on what you READ, and NOT what you imagine. Truth exists. It exists all around us. You have to be able to identify it. Just because I agree with a statement made by a person does not mean I am of the opinion that he is sane and intelligent. Most of the world's religions contain the very same Truths that you yourself believe. Why do you fear to admit that? Identifying how Buddhism is similar to one's own religious belief does not make one a Buddhist.
2. Being tolerant of other religions does NOT mean considering them to be correct. One can tolerate a noisy neighbour, but that doesn't mean one agrees with his behaviour.

[AdamB]

...if to be tolerant is to BELIEVE that other creeds are also correct (like Dspike and general hindu philosophy - correct me if I'm wrong)...

Yes, you are wrong.
You are wrong on two points.
1. I never said I BELIEVE other creeds are correct.
So other creeds are incorrect?
When referring to my writings, you need to rely on what you READ, and NOT what you imagine. Truth exists. It exists all around us. You have to be able to identify it. Just because I agree with a statement made by a person does not mean I am of the opinion that he is sane and intelligent.
[b]Not sure how you linking sanity and intelligence from agreement of someone's statement. It could imply that since you agree then both of you are not sane and lacking intelligence.

Most of the world's religions contain the very same Truths like what?that you yourself believe. Why do you fear to admit that?I don't fear to admit that which we believe in common.[/b] Identifying how Buddhism is similar to one's own religious belief does not make one a Buddhist.
Yes, people of different religions believe in "GOD", the Creator, who is to be worshipped but the details vary and the Islamic view is unique (and so is GOD). At least that's what I have been trying to show, the difference, what makes it unique from the Islamic standpoint. Islam identifies why certain details and forms of worship will not be acceptable to GOD.

2. Being tolerant of other religions does NOT mean considering them to be correct. One can tolerate a noisy neighbour, but that doesn't mean one agrees with his behaviour.
I tolerate neighbours with noise and religion, it's a free country, believe and do as you wish. Am I not tolerant with other religions because I am still here having discussions? Who knows maybe one day someone may win me over with an argument, until then, the status quo remains unchanged.

If these things make me and all muslims intolerant and bigots, so be it and so what!!

[AdamB]

Duane,
Muslims are not oblivious of philosophical ideas and innovated practises in religion. We are well aware of these, many muslims groups have deviated and delved deep into these, just google SUFISM.

Christians, as evident from Dspike's rantings, have also done this. The difference is that the knowledge has been lost or corrupted and the one's on the right path were executed centuries ago. Now they seem to have their flock in awe of their putrid ideas. The core of their belief system is based on philosophic ideas. How come the Jews don't have this also? Because they held fast to their scriptures (Torah), although they changed some laws to suit their desires. However they maintained the correct concept of GOD, well most of them.

I NEVER said Muslims are oblivious of philosophical ideas or of anything.

I said that YOU are oblivious and bigoted. You continue to bad talk other religious beliefs even though you admit that you have never read their texts or understand their teachings.

Your opinion is your opinion. You are clearly oblivious of the knowledge I have gained in Islam about GOD and man. For the purpose of this thread's discussion I present the views of Islam not my personal opinion.
Who eh like it and who vex loss!!!
One day you will have no excuse that you didn't get the heads up...

LOL you do not know me.

No where in the teachings of Islam does it say one should be narrow minded, bigoted and pompous - yet you hold strongly to those traits.

The prophets also exibited these traits? So their respective people sought to exile, kill, hang, etc...

Bigoted = utterly intolerant of other creeds.

I am not utterly intolerant, otherwise I might seek to find all of you and .....

but seriously, if to be tolerant is to BELIEVE that other creeds are also correct (like Dspike and general hindu philosophy - correct me if I'm wrong), then I AM INTOLERANT but let me make it clear, others are free to practise and believe what they wish, it is their choice. I don't have a problem with that unless it directly affects me or oppresses me in some way.

Megadoc, RedFraction and nismotrinidappa are also BIGOTS because they believe that Jesus died for their sins and they will be saved because they accept him as their lord and saviour. All others will be doomed to hell. Is that more or less right guys?

BIGOTS are also ABA Trading, DFC, Dizzy, Mamoo, MajTom...but wait nah, is real BIGOTS here!!!

You are either kidding or truly incapable of reasoning.

I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult, but here goes:
Stating your belief and opinion does not make you a bigot.
Claiming your point of view ALONE is correct and that everyone else are lost and misguided fools, makes you a bigot.

My belief (not my opinion) claims that it alone is correct. If that is so and I don't say that you are lost / misguided then what would prompt you to dig yourself out of that hole containing deception and being inconspicuous ?
Well, it makes me an HONEST bigot!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

My belief (not my opinion) claims that it alone is correct. If that is so and I don't say that you are lost / misguided then what would prompt you to dig yourself out of that hole containing deception and being inconspicuous ?
Well, it makes me an HONEST bigot!

how is your belief NOT your opinon?

opin·ion
noun \ə-ˈpin-yən\
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

What you probably mean to say is that YOU believe in those beliefs. Shi'ites believe in their beliefs etc etc.
However, believing in something does not make it true, as you clearly stated in your opinion about Sufism.
In that sense all people who follow any religion are the same in that they all believe in the beliefs of their religion.

All can't be right at the same time, but all can be wrong at the same time

[d spike]

I never said I BELIEVE other creeds are correct.
So other creeds are incorrect?

You are not going to goad me into answering that question.

I have said time and again that this is a public forum. People from diverse faiths read what is posted here. My job is not to alienate nor polarize. I am NOT going to appear to promote any one religion.

Truth exists. It exists all around us. You have to be able to identify it. Just because I agree with a statement made by a person does not mean I am of the opinion that he is sane and intelligent.
Not sure how you linking sanity and intelligence from agreement of someone's statement.

But that is the line along which YOU are thinking. Just because I agree with some ideas within a religion doesn't mean I BELIEVE that is a "correct" religion.

Most of the world's religions contain the very same Truths like what?that you yourself believe.

Good grief.
One God. Be honest. Don't screw somebody else's wife. Don't take other folks' stuff. Do what is right. And so on.

Whatever plan the Boss put us here for, we have figured out that it involves interacting with each other in ways that support and build one another, giving of ourselves and not counting the cost.

At least that's what I have been trying to show, the difference, what makes it unique from the Islamic standpoint. Islam identifies why certain details and forms of worship will not be acceptable to GOD.

Okay, so there are differences. Why the need to highlight them? What is the point of doing this? To show others where they are WRONG????
What a load of horsefeathers.
Wrong means in error. Who says the others are in error? Because their beliefs differ from what you believe?
All that shows is that you differ.
In your opinion, what you believe is right for you. Wonderful.
In that same way, what they believe is right for them.
At the end of it all, we shall see. Until then, have some courtesy and respect for others and their beliefs.
...and in case you never acquired any manners, telling someone something that upsets them (and that item has nothing to do with their physical safety, or information that is important from their point of view) is discourteous.

I tolerate neighbours with noise and religion, it's a free country, believe and do as you wish. Am I not tolerant with other religions because I am still here having discussions?

That is not the meaning of tolerant, as used in religious study. While the root word is tolerate, the meaning of tolerant has evolved to mean more than grudgingly allow.
However, this certainly does explain both your approach and lack of respect.

If these things make me and all muslims intolerant and bigots, so be it and so what!!

If you fail to see how to be tolerant, and more importantly, why being tolerant is so important, then any further explanation on my part is a waste of time.

I follow my religion, and I teach it publicly and privately. I support it and defend it. Yet I do so in a manner that is neither bigoted nor intolerant. You can too.

[DFC]

Adamb, is Islam the perfect religion?

[AdamB]

What's your definition/qualities of perfect?

[Kasey]

Something that is IMPOSSIBLE to be misunderstood?........by ANYONE?

[AdamB]

Many disbelieve in GOD and HE is misunderstood by many. Is HE then not perfect?

DFC, your perspective?

By your statement, THE perfect religion, are you implying that there is only one perfect religion? Possibly, if more than one religion was claimed perfect and they oppose each other, then that would nullify the proposed perfection of all.

[Kasey]

Now yuh understanding, god is not perfect, God just 'is'/'was'/'always will be'. Being 'perfect' is a human attribute.

[AdamB]

Now yuh understanding, god is not perfect, God just 'is'/'was'/'always will be'. Being 'perfect' is a human attribute.

Is this your opinion or hindu belief?

Muslims believe GOD to be perfect in all of HIS attributes with no imperfection or defect in any form or manner. HIS qualities and attributes do not resemble that of HIS Creation and vice versa. We do not reject them and we do not distort the meaning of them, for example to say that the "hand" of GOD is HIS mercy or power.

[AdamB]

My belief (not my opinion) claims that it alone is correct. If that is so and I don't say that you are lost / misguided then what would prompt you to dig yourself out of that hole containing deception and being inconspicuous ?
Well, it makes me an HONEST bigot!

how is your belief NOT your opinon?

opin·ion
noun \ə-ˈpin-yən\
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

What you probably mean to say is that YOU believe in those beliefs. Shi'ites believe in their beliefs etc etc.
However, believing in something does not make it true, as you clearly stated in your opinion about Sufism.
In that sense all people who follow any religion are the same in that they all believe in the beliefs of their religion.

All can't be right at the same time, but all can be wrong at the same time

Duane,

To clarify I meant NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION, but the BELIEF OF MUSLIMS (from authentic prophetic narrations/hadith and the Qur'aan - to distinguish as you mentioned Shia)

[Kasey]

Yes I know a little of what Muslims say what God is. But the Hindu standpoint, is that God is so great, and I mean SOOOO GGRREATTT, that NO ONE, and I mean, NO ONE can even try to describe of how great he is (it is impossible for a limited mind). NO ONE, no book, has the authority to give an COMPLETE SENTENCE of the greatness and the limitless attributes.
He is beyond perfection............. He is.............................!!!!!

(my understanding of the hindu standpoint)

[AdamB]

Yes I know a little of what Muslims say what God is. But the Hindu standpoint, is that God is so great, and I mean SOOOO GGRREATTT, that NO ONE, and I mean, NO ONE can even try to describe of how great he is (it is impossible for a limited mind). NO ONE, no book, has the authority to give an COMPLETE SENTENCE of the greatness and the limitless attributes.
He is beyond perfection............. He is.............................!!!!!

(my understanding of the hindu standpoint)

Cool, thanks for clarifying as it seems to contradict what you said before.

NOTHING IS LIKE UNTO HIM...that's why we don't ascribe pictures, etc to GOD because anything that the limited human mind can come up with....is NOT GOD!!

We only say about HIM, that which HE has informed us about HIMSELF without the comparison to human attributes which is only similar in name (word used to describe).

That which HE has informed us about HIMSELF is also certainly not all there is....there is SOOO much that HE has kept with HIMSELF.

[RBphoto]

How does one go about registering a new religion in Trinidad?

I want to start my own church. I have a business plan and an investors guide. Don't have a doctrine, but I guess I can make something up as I go along.... worked for all the others.

[Dizzy28]

Why would a perfect God make something as imperfect as man and put him in charge of all dominion?

[RBphoto]

^^^ Because being perfect all by yourself is boring.

[Dizzy28]

^ Makes sense

[AdamB]

Man is not perfect but GOD created man as HE intended, in that sense perfect as GOD intended but not perfect in his actions, qualities, etc.

What is ALL DOMINION? Man is certainly not in charge of all dominion! GOD is the one who controls all affairs, HE does as HE wishes but not without knowledge, wisdom and justice.

I guess it would be boring if man was perfect.

[AdamB]

How does one go about registering a new religion in Trinidad?

I want to start my own church. I have a business plan and an investors guide. Don't have a doctrine, but I guess I can make something up as I go along.... worked for all the others.

Let's see you "put your money where your mouth is" and what you can come up with in comparison to an illiterate man 1400+ yrs ago who lived in the desert without schooling, books of other religions, the internet, etc.

Talk is cheap, action not words....try it out and come back and tell us how you are progressing in a year or two.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

My belief (not my opinion) claims that it alone is correct. If that is so and I don't say that you are lost / misguided then what would prompt you to dig yourself out of that hole containing deception and being inconspicuous ?
Well, it makes me an HONEST bigot!

how is your belief NOT your opinon?

opin·ion
noun \ə-ˈpin-yən\
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

What you probably mean to say is that YOU believe in those beliefs. Shi'ites believe in their beliefs etc etc.
However, believing in something does not make it true, as you clearly stated in your opinion about Sufism.
In that sense all people who follow any religion are the same in that they all believe in the beliefs of their religion.

All can't be right at the same time, but all can be wrong at the same time

Duane,

To clarify I meant NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION, but the BELIEF OF MUSLIMS (from authentic prophetic narrations/hadith and the Qur'aan - to distinguish as you mentioned Shia)

I am beginning to realise that you do not always say what you mean. I am not sure however that you always mean what you say.

[AdamB]

My belief (not my opinion) claims that it alone is correct. If that is so and I don't say that you are lost / misguided then what would prompt you to dig yourself out of that hole containing deception and being inconspicuous ?
Well, it makes me an HONEST bigot!

how is your belief NOT your opinon?

opin·ion
noun \ə-ˈpin-yən\
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

What you probably mean to say is that YOU believe in those beliefs. Shi'ites believe in their beliefs etc etc.
However, believing in something does not make it true, as you clearly stated in your opinion about Sufism.
In that sense all people who follow any religion are the same in that they all believe in the beliefs of their religion.

All can't be right at the same time, but all can be wrong at the same time

Duane,

To clarify I meant NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION, but the BELIEF OF MUSLIMS (from authentic prophetic narrations/hadith and the Qur'aan - to distinguish as you mentioned Shia)

I am beginning to realise that you do not always say what you mean. I am not sure however that you always mean what you say.

Well I generally mean what I say, for an imperfect being. However, the meaning of what I say may be misinterpreted due to imperfect English language and imperfect beings deriving their understanding of what was said. Kinda like interpretation of religious scriptures by those not qualified to interpret and explain...

Beginning to realize is a good start to awakening to reality And truth.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Kinda like interpretation of religious scriptures by those not qualified to interpret and explain...

how is religious scripture meant for everyone and considered perfect when it requires "those qualified to interpret and explain" it?

What if a newly converted person takes a religious text back to his people in his native land in a bid to convert those back home. If there are no "qualified persons to interpret and explain", then they will be left to come up with their own interpretations and explanations, not so?

and I direct this to any religion

[Dizzy28]

Man is not perfect but GOD created man as HE intended, in that sense perfect as GOD intended but not perfect in his actions, qualities, etc.

What is ALL DOMINION? Man is certainly not in charge of all dominion! GOD is the one who controls all affairs, HE does as HE wishes but not without knowledge, wisdom and justice.

I guess it would be boring if man was perfect.

I was referring to Genesis 1:28
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

[AdamB]

Man is not perfect but GOD created man as HE intended, in that sense perfect as GOD intended but not perfect in his actions, qualities, etc.

What is ALL DOMINION? Man is certainly not in charge of all dominion! GOD is the one who controls all affairs, HE does as HE wishes but not without knowledge, wisdom and justice.

I guess it would be boring if man was perfect.

I was referring to Genesis 1:28
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Isn't that specific to living creatures and "subduing" of the EARTH? You said ALL DOMINION.

To subdue as well may not mean to have full control of. Also, it may not imply "willingness and obedience" to man's desires.