The Religion Discussion

[DFC]

^^^Since we rely of proofs / evidences, Islam may be the only religion not based on NANCY STORIES. Others, it may seem, gobble them up....

You rely on proof and evidences?

You're a comedian.

Tell me about how Mohammed fly up to heaven on a flying donkey nah.

Tell me about the Buraq.

[maj. tom]

^ make sure you include details about how it travelled faster than the speed of light. I asked this a long time ago, but AdamB is very selective is what he reads and how he replies.

[Bizzare]

My name is AdamB. Today I feel like living by logic..... tomorrow I may live by faith. hmm.... whatever helps me defend Islam **shrugs**

[AdamB]

Fasting today guys, day of Ashura (10th of Muharram). Google it.

BTW, someone should tell the starving environmentalist that fasting is for GOD alone, NOT for protest, etc.

[DFC]

Fasting today guys, day of Ashura (10th of Muharram). Google it.

BTW, someone should tell the starving environmentalist that fasting is for GOD alone, NOT for protest, etc.

Also fasting today are Muslims from Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia.
The difference is, while you will stuff your guts this evening, they will suffer and die horribly of starvation.

24,000 die in starvation everyday.

Sudan, Somalia, are muslim countries, ancient muslim countries too, these people are born muslims, why have Allah forsaken his own people?

How come they suffer so much?, its because they are African. Allah is Racist.





I do know about Ashura, some of my family are observing it.
I once questioned an Imam about it and his answer was "Do not question our Islam, it is a sin"

1-Isnt Ashura a jewish observance?
2- You guys say you only worship Allah, but you cannot say a prayer to Allah without mentioning Muhammed, and you fast for Ashura.

How much people do allyuh really worship?


Taken from Wikipedia.

The Day of Ashura (Arabic: عاشوراء‎ ʻĀshūrā’; Urdu: عاشورہ‎; Persian: عاشورا; Turkish: Aşure Günü) is on the 10th day of Muharram in the Islamic calendar and marks the climax of the Mourning of Muharram.
It is commemorated by Shi'a Muslims as a day of mourning for the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala on 10 Muharram in the year 61 AH (in AHc: October 9,[1] and in AHt: October 10, 680 CE).[2] According to Sunni Muslim tradition, Ibn Abbas narrates that the Prophet (ﷺ) came to Madeenah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of ‘Ashoora’. He said, “What is this?” They said, “This is a good day, this is the day when Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy and Moosa fasted on this day.” He said, “We are closer to Moosa than you.” So he fasted on this day and told the people to fast.

[nismotrinidappa]

hmm adamb in the hot seat again.. lets see if he actually answers this time..

[AdamB]

Dspike,
You say GOD is OMNIPRESENT, I ask for proof, you post this:

Good grief. Just because a word isn't in the Bible doesn't mean that it is wrong. Besides, it is a compound word made of an English root word and a Latin prefix. Why would you think that would be in a compilation of books, most of which were written before either language became common in the area the books originated?

Well show me the equivalent of OMNIPRESENT in the Hebrew / Greek / Aramaic / Latin / English translation!!

Are you saying there is NO PROOF!!!???? (FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU FUNDAMENTALLY BELIEVE ABOUT GOD)

Personally, I fail to see the point in posting scriptural basis for Christian beliefs.
If someone really wants to know the answer for some deeply personal query, is Trinituner is the place he should look?
It is NEVER relevant to quote scripture to support a religious belief of the faith that created those very scriptures, when one is taking part in a multi-religious discussion - specifically when the point being supported is creating conflict.
When one considers your views, AdamB, with regard to the belief that Judeo-Christian scriptures have been tampered with, how could my producing scriptural quotes be of value in a discussion with you?

Anyway, to avoid you spewing any more nonsense about a lack of "proof", here you are:
Jeremiah 23:24
I Kings 8:27
Ps 139:5
Ps 139:7-10
Jer 23:23-24
Matt 18:20
Matt 28:20


And to quote one of your preferred sources, Wikipedia:

To both mainstream Jewish and Christian religions, God is omnipresent; however, some heterodox branches, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, reject omnipresence. However, the major difference between these monotheistic religions and other religious systems is that God is still transcendent to His creation and yet immanent in relating to creation. God is not immersed in the substance of creation, even though he is able to interact with it as he chooses. He cannot be excluded from any location or object in creation (Thomas C Oden "The Living God: Systematic Theology Vol 1 pg 67). God's presence is continuous throughout all of creation, though it may not be revealed in the same way at the same time to people everywhere. At times, he may be actively present in a situation, while he may not reveal that he is present in another circumstance in some other area. The Bible reveals that God can be both present to a person in a manifest manner (Psalm 46:1, Isaiah 57:15) as well as being present in every situation in all of creation at any given time (Psalm 33:13-14). Specifically, Oden states (pg. 68-69) that the Bible shows that God can be present in every aspect of human life:
• God is naturally present in every aspect of the natural order, in every level of causality, every fleeting moment and momentous event of natural history...(Psalm 8:3, Isaiah 40:12, Nahum 1:3)
• God is actively present in a different way in every event in history as provident guide of human affairs (Psalm 48:7)
• God is in a special way attentively present to those who call upon his name, intercede for others, who adore God, who petition, who pray earnestly for forgiveness (Gospel of Matthew 18:19, Book of Acts 17:27)
• God is judicially present in moral awareness, through conscience (Psalm 48:1-2, Epistle to the Romans 1:20)
• God is bodily present in the incarnation of his Son, Jesus Christ (Gospel of John 1:14, Colossians 2:9)
• God is mystically present in the Eucharist, and through the means of grace in the church, the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:12, John 6:56)
• God is sacredly present and becomes known in special places where God chooses to meet us, places that become set apart by the faithful remembering community (1 Corinthians 11:23-29) where it may said: "Truly the Lord is in this place" (Genesis 28:16, Matthew 18:20)"
In the Judeo-Christian religions, God is omnipresent in a way that he is able to interact with his creation however he chooses...
While contrary to normal physical intuitions, such omnipresence is logically possible by way of the classic geometric point or its equivalent, in that such a point is, by definition, within all of space without taking up any space.

The omnipresence of God is one of the most basic theological points regarding the attributes of God. If you believe that God is truly infinite and omnipotent, then limiting Him to a space, or a time, makes Him finite. Whereas infinity addresses the location of God's presence in terms of limitations, omnipresence addresses the location of God's presence in terms of extent.

If you cannot understand this most basic theological concept, then exactly what sort of finite creature are you praying to?

You confuse or don't know the difference between the Transcendence of GOD in HIS Essence with The Transcendence of GOD's Attributes.

This is where Islam excels over others, via beneficial knowledge, in this case about GOD. The explanation is in the following article which addresses the errors of those whose say that GOD is either everywhere or nowhere: http://abdurrahman.org/tawheed/asmawasi ... Allaah.pdf

These errors occur among some muslim groups as well. The most common problem is not distinguishing between GOD being with us or among us THROUGH HIS ATTRIBUTES but not in HIS Essence. If you read the verses you quoted (I did) from the Bible, you would see that the attributes referred to are knowledge or guidance, etc.

Your quoted scripture even supports my view:
1 Kings 8:27 "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

You say Jesus is GOD and he dwelled on the Earth, then apply the above verse to this claim...

[Bizzare]

Also fasting today are Muslims from Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia.

don't they fast most days?

[d spike]

You confuse or don't know the difference between the Transcendence of GOD in HIS Essence with The Transcendence of GOD's Attributes.

This is where Islam excels over others, via beneficial knowledge, in this case about GOD.

Thanks for displaying your ignorance of other religions. The essence of God and His attributes are both basic theological concepts, not just Islamic concepts - and don't start that crap about "you never said that"...
Before you start comparing Islam to other religions, LEARN ABOUT THEM!!! That way, you will cease sounding like a narrow-minded idiot.

The most common problem is not distinguishing between GOD being with us or among us THROUGH HIS ATTRIBUTES but not in HIS Essence. If you read the verses you quoted (I did) from the Bible, you would see that the attributes referred to are knowledge or guidance, etc.

You...
who doesn't understand what others write...
whose grasp of language is such that he cannot properly express himself...
you understood writings in a scripture that is alien to you...
and is written in a variety of idiom that is beyond your experience...
and you also believe (but cannot say why) has been twisted and misaligned...

...and you believe your understanding of those writings are correct and precise????

All I can say is, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

But seriously, if you are intelligent enough to differentiate between the Essence of God and the Attributes of God (I fear I did not consider that possibility, but in all fairness, many of your previous posts would not have guided me otherwise, and those that might have, were simply proof that you knew how to copy and paste) then just look at a quote you seem to have overlooked in your anxiety to refute my point:

Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend into heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there; if I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you." (Psalm 139:7-12)

"This is not to say that God’s form is spread out so that parts of Him exist in every location. God is spirit; He has no physical form. He is present everywhere in that everything is immediately in His presence. At the same time He is present everywhere in the universe. No one can hide from Him and nothing escapes His notice." (Don Stewart, Pentecostal)
This quote refers specifically to God Himself.

You say Jesus is GOD and he dwelled on the Earth, then apply the above verse to this claim...

Scripture doesn't work that way, little one. (You would need to take a look at the beginning of St. John's Gospel for an explanation for that one.)
If you take scripture literally, then you will inevitably fall into error. That which applies to the spiritual realm does not apply to the physical realm. Scripture is not meant to be used as a text-book for history or science. Christians had to learn that lesson bitterly in the Renaissance... many in Islam are still walking that path. You will note that I am not calling upon you for "proof" or explanations for your flying donkeys and what-have-you as others are, for I know you are floundering in waters deeper than you can tread.

You want to talk theology? Respond to that which you conveniently ignored!

While contrary to normal physical intuitions, such omnipresence is logically possible by way of the classic geometric point or its equivalent, in that such a point is, by definition, within all of space without taking up any space.

The omnipresence of God is one of the most basic theological points regarding the attributes of God. If you believe that God is truly infinite and omnipotent, then limiting Him to a space, or a time, makes Him finite. Whereas infinity addresses the location of God's presence in terms of limitations, omnipresence addresses the location of God's presence in terms of extent.

If you cannot understand this most basic theological concept, then exactly what sort of finite creature are you praying to?

[d spike]

[You say Jesus is GOD and he dwelled on the Earth, then apply the above verse to this claim...

Since when have you started applying scripture in such a random manner?
If all scripture must be applied to all situations.. then:
How many adulterers have you stoned?
Killed any infidels lately?

This is the error of Literalism. One does not apply scripture to every "application required"... that's like a child trying to ram a jigsaw-puzzle piece into every empty space, pounding it to make it fit...

Ermmmm... is that how you go through life?

[DFC]

Adamb-0
d Spike- 12

Its asif adamb just cant think out of his little well.

[Kasey]

^^Actually, thats not his aim. Notice he stopped responding to many of our posts? What has he to gain by responding to us? In his mind, nothing. But to eloquent and theologically-inclined people like spiky, he wants to converse. In his mind, they are 'worthy' to 'battle' with. He is just picking spiky to gain ammunition for his armory, so that he can learn how to 'battle' outside of tunerville with 'educated' people of other religions.

The amount of knowledge I have seen dispensed by spiky, he has alot of rebuttals now for the Christian Fundamentalist. Thing is, he will not change from his standpoint, because he is limited in intellect, he has reacehd to a level now (not higher eh, on the same plain), that he is now using tuner to gain shunning ground (in his mind) on other religions. That is his real purpose in this thread.

Why does he want to know other religions views on certain things if in the end he is shunning them anyway? Whay does he only want to hear from 'qualified' religious folk if he openly claims that he is the right one, according to his understanding of his scriptures? Why does he only welcome people in the thread who aggrees with his standpoint?

Why does he not answer if he is or is not Yasalama, or York (who only seemed to post the day they joind, and not thereafter?

[Kasey]

Spike, careful what info yuh give this thing eh........and careful the nice language yuh use. It apparently likes it.

[d spike]

Spike, careful what info yuh give this thing eh........and careful the nice language yuh use. It apparently likes it.

No worries, Kasey. The "info" that I state here is publicly available to anyone who can read... I'm sure the internet also has such material on religious sites.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason that AdamB hasn't responded to you and many of the others, is simply because the responses required are not on any of the mimeographed pamphlets that are handed out after worship outside his masjid by some eager zealot? I'm sure AdamB has already relayed his desire to respond to such statements to the paper-hand-outer, who in turn will relay the query to the authors... you will get his response - unless the Gestetner machine runs out of ink...

[Kasey]

Ah tort mega was the worst i've seen...............anyway, we learn bout stuff and people everyday eh. I'm glad i had this experience. Thanx for the many insights spiky. Too bad you eh know hINDU scriptures as well as you know the bible (i think?). The discussion would have been even more interesting (if that was possible).

[nismotrinidappa]

adamb you quoting out of context... that verse you quoted is from king solomon expressing wonder of god that he cannot fit inside the temple etc... as spike said you cannot take everythinh literally.. some understanding is required as well,

[d spike]

He is just picking spiky to gain ammunition for his armory, so that he can learn how to 'battle' outside of tunerville with 'educated' people of other religions.

If that is the case, then I am even more sorry for him.
He doesn't have the wherewithal to hold his own in a debate with anyone versed in religious studies. He has shown quite clearly that he does not understand the teachings of religions other than his own - and even that point is moot.
The few times he actually ventures into a debate on theological issues, he just regurgitates copied material - showing little or no understanding on his part, apart from how to hold down the control button and press "V".
I wouldn't worry about all that if I were you. Here are two reasons why.
Regurgitation is easily recognized, so his just spewing out his prepared venom will have the same effect in any other arena as it does here - except that the rejection of his pasteboard arguments by more "educated" folk will smart even worse.
The other reason is this: The composer Leonard Bernstein said, "If a rock musician woke up one morning with a tune in his head, he would go mad." While I disagree with him regarding the cynical and dismissive view of the "rock musician" I do agree with his line of thought.
If our mutual friend can actually hold the concepts I have explained within the confines of his mind, then only good can come of those rational thoughts being inside there. In order to remember them, he will have to understand them. In order to manipulate them, he will have to further understand them as well. In understanding them, he will have to EXERCISE RATIONAL THOUGHT.
Only GOOD can come of his exercising rational thought. He will either finally start to hone his own understanding of religion (among other things) and his blinded fundamentalist thinking will start to wane, allowing God's gift of logic to further open his mind to how life really is... or he might develop a thirst for real knowledge, instead of regurgitated phrases laced with hate and ignorance, and discussion with him might actually be worthwhile.

Remember that you are talking about a fellow who clings to a single euphemism for sex to claim that a maid-servant was actually Abraham's wife, but refuses to see multiple direct references to Hagar being a slave both before and after the euphemism was uttered.
...and he is going to argue about what the Bible says regarding esoteric matter, doctrine and theology? ...and further point out how it is wrong? or misunderstood for hundreds of years?
Can you not hear the laughter already?
For crying out loud, this is a fellow who believes that Megadoc considers me his "guru"!

If you think that he just wants to acquire personal laud for his arguments, then let him... and may it do him some good somehow - for that will be all the reward he will receive for it.

A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.
Do you REALLY think that he could affect the faith of others with his arguments? Has he won any of us lesser beings over? Not counting York and Yasalala, who no doubt converted immediately upon reading his posts, then returned to Tuner to defend him...
Let him go and bray. Even uneducated folk know what a jack sounds like.

[d spike]

Ah tort mega was the worst i've seen...............anyway, we learn bout stuff and people everyday eh. I'm glad i had this experience. Thanx for the many insights spiky. Too bad you eh know hINDU scriptures as well as you know the bible (i think?). The discussion would have been even more interesting (if that was possible).

The upsurge in Christian fundamentalism fueled by televangelists in the last couple of decades was most unfortunate. It has only served to polarize differing religions. I was actually looking forward to a greater sharing of ideas between Western and Eastern religious thinking. So-called Western religion has its roots in the East, and the Christian mystics reveal a thinking not unlike Eastern thinking.
Christians are too easily absorbed by materialism, for their churches can parallel a materialistic existence - AdamB was right about that. Perhaps I am naive in this matter, but my limited studies of Eastern religions have shown that these faiths (because they are viewed as a way of life, rather than an aspect of it) such as Hinduism and Buddhism, remind their followers constantly that this life is but a small part of life itself, and in remaining true to their faith, materials mean little.

I have always maintained that Christians can learn a lot from the Eastern faiths. Western faith focuses on action, Eastern faith focuses on being.
While it is important to focus on the here and now - as it will be our choices that decide our hereafter - it is too easy to lose sight of why we are here, of the whole Creation and its beauty, and its suggestions.

Why don't you raise a few points? And let us see where it goes, while we enjoy the journey.

[Kasey]

I honestly dont know where to start. I dont even know if I want to get into it. Due to my unpredictable job constraints, my time on tuner varies quite alot. Sometimes I am on tuner 4 times a day, and sometimes I am on tuner one time in two weeks! Looking at the post count of this thread everyday, I rerally dont think I can keep up if I lapse. Of course what does matter right? But I would not want to be seen like AdamB who does not answer some posts (maybe for similar reasons of involuntary constraints?). I would really like to delve into it without distractions of work, home and kids. But what would one expect from an online forum right?

Anyway my view of religion is this (and I made this up myself eh...):
"I do not wholly believe in the scriptures of my religion, but I believe in the lessons they teach". How does one get the lessons? Honestly, I dont know, but I just think of the other guy, his well being, and the surroundings, and try to do what's best.

In the west, the hindu religion is very misunderstood, due to the language barrier. In my understanding, what we see in Trinidad here is actually not really what India practices. The indenturers came here from different parts of india, with different sects of religious beliefs and they obviously got mixed up and now makes for a different religion. The pundits (but not all), though knowledgable in the scriptures, are sometimes not capable of extracting the real lessons from the books, and hence leads to misunderstanding, and confusion.

But again, I think that the main problem with misunderstanding, with hinduism in the West in the Language thing. Most of the hindus in Trinidad do not understand Hindi or Sanscrit. But why do they hold on to it? Because some of them actually try to find out (and evaluate for themselves) the real lessons from translations, and realise that there is alot of philosohpy contained within the scriptures. Things that makes one think about life in different ways. The idea on ONE god, the idea of detachment, the necescity to look after your fellow man, the idea that prayer is NOT the only meduim, etc.

Anyway, lemme go do some work now.

[megadoc1]

d spike, my guru ! (pleas don't deny it ,if adam b say is so, it it so ok!) I was reading some of your post in another ched years ago and you said that religion is a subset of society or culture cant remember exactly how it go ,could you share your thoughts on that if you have the time?(if you already did so in this ched doh buff meh nuh!)....thanks!

[AdamB]

adamb you quoting out of context... that verse you quoted is from king solomon expressing wonder of god that he cannot fit inside the temple etc... as spike said you cannot take everythinh literally.. some understanding is required as well,

Sorry guys, it's like Kasey said...constraints with family, work and part time garden plus sales/distribution of perishables.

The verse I quoted was actually from the list that Dspike threw at me, look it up above.

I will get back to the topic we are discussing but i need to clarify to dspike and others:
I don't quote from pamphlets
I don't refer to a guru...lol.
Have some patience, dspike.
How many have you converted? Man has a natural inclination to lowly desires.

Nismo,
You and your cohorts are saying that "scriptures cannot be uunderstood literally"...well how to understand it then? I say YOUR MISGUIDED DESIRES!!! The scriptures are there for guidance, yet you divert from it and CONVENIENTLY choose your interpretations, call it UNDERSTANDING when it really is misguidance cloaked under some GURU'S PHILOSOPHICAL IDEAS! Duane has brought up this point time and time again...

Please understand this, if you want to say that you KNOW GOD, then that knowledge HAS to come from HIM, not from some Dr Price, DR Cash or the like, our very own Dr Dspike or the whole of Christianity, if they agree with him, has no foundation for his ideas. The problem is that our limited minds want to define GOD when it doesn't have the ability to fully conceive the reality of GOD. THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM (Quran Ch 112).

You say GOD is a spirit, what kind? Isn't Satan a spirit too? So is Satan and all spirits everywhere like you have defined GOD to be? GOD's has perfect attributes of seeing, hearing, knowing according to HIS majesty. Doesn't that necessate that HE DOES NOT have to be everywhere to see, hear and know? Then why have those attributes in the first place?

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

[nismotrinidappa]

adamb you quoting out of context... that verse you quoted is from king solomon expressing wonder of god that he cannot fit inside the temple etc... as spike said you cannot take everythinh literally.. some understanding is required as well,

Sorry guys, it's like Kasey said...constraints with family, work and part time garden plus sales/distribution of perishables.


Nismo,
You and your cohorts are saying that "scriptures cannot be uunderstood literally"...well how to understand it then?
COHORTS? I HAVE NO COHORTS
I say YOUR MISGUIDED DESIRES!!! The scriptures are there for guidance, yet you divert from it and CONVENIENTLY choose your interpretations, call it UNDERSTANDING when it really is misguidance cloaked under some GURU'S PHILOSOPHICAL IDEAS! Duane has brought up this point time and time again...

STUDY OF THE BIBLE!!... SOME THINGS JESUS SAID LITERALLY. SOME THINGS JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID INDIRECTLY THROUGH PARABLES.
IF A MAN SLAP YOU YOU GONNA SAY SLAP ME ON THE NEXT CHEEK? YOU SEE A CHRISTIAN DRAGGING TWO GOAT AND COW AND FOUR LAMB TO CHURCH? START TO THINK OUT OF YOUR WELL PLEASE. I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU. NO SENSE ADAM COMING TO A GUNFIGHT WITH A KNIFE!!

Please understand this, if you want to say that you KNOW GOD,
WHO SAID THEY KNOW GOD? HUMAN MIND CANNOT COMPREHEND GOD IN ALL HIS MAJESTY HENCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THERE WAS A CLOUD AROUND HIS PRESENCE ETC.

then that knowledge HAS to come from HIM, not from some Dr Price, DR Cash or the like, our very own Dr Dspike or the whole of Christianity, if they agree with him, has no foundation for his ideas. The problem is that our limited minds want to define GOD when it doesn't have the ability to fully conceive the reality of GOD. THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM (Quran Ch 112).

You say GOD is a spirit, what kind? Isn't Satan a spirit too? So is Satan and all spirits everywhere like you have defined GOD to be? GOD's has perfect attributes of seeing, hearing, knowing according to HIS majesty. Doesn't that necessate that HE DOES NOT have to be everywhere to see, hear and know? Then why have those attributes in the first place? GOD IS OMNIPRESENT... SATAN IS NOT.. HE FLIES AND TRAFFICKS THE EARTH TO AND FRO AND UP AND DOWN AKA TELEPORTATION ASTRAL PROJECTION ALL THESE THINGS ARE SATANIC OCCULT POWERS. YOU STILL QUESTIONING GOD WHAT HE NECESSITATE AND WHAT HE DONT NECESSITATE? YOU STILL IN THE WELL BOY COME OUT!!

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT YOUR SCRIPTURE IS BASED AND DERIVED FROM MY UNPRESERVED SCRIPTURE.... ANSWER MR ADAMB AND HOW YOU KNOW THAT YOURS HAS SUPERCEDED MINE? SIGH..

[AdamB]

Fasting today guys, day of Ashura (10th of Muharram). Google it.

BTW, someone should tell the starving environmentalist that fasting is for GOD alone, NOT for protest, etc.

Also fasting today are Muslims from Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia.
The difference is, while you will stuff your guts this evening, they will suffer and die horribly of starvation.

24,000 die in starvation everyday.

Sudan, Somalia, are muslim countries, ancient muslim countries too, these people are born muslims, why have Allah forsaken his own people?

How come they suffer so much?, its because they are African. Allah is Racist.





I do know about Ashura, some of my family are observing it.
I once questioned an Imam about it and his answer was "Do not question our Islam, it is a sin"

1-Isnt Ashura a jewish observance?
2- You guys say you only worship Allah, but you cannot say a prayer to Allah without mentioning Muhammed, and you fast for Ashura.

How much people do allyuh really worship?


Taken from Wikipedia.

The Day of Ashura (Arabic: عاشوراء‎ ʻĀshūrā’; Urdu: عاشورہ‎; Persian: عاشورا; Turkish: Aşure Günü) is on the 10th day of Muharram in the Islamic calendar and marks the climax of the Mourning of Muharram.
It is commemorated by Shi'a Muslims as a day of mourning for the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala on 10 Muharram in the year 61 AH (in AHc: October 9,[1] and in AHt: October 10, 680 CE).[2] According to Sunni Muslim tradition, Ibn Abbas narrates that the Prophet (ﷺ) came to Madeenah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of ‘Ashoora’. He said, “What is this?” They said, “This is a good day, this is the day when Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy and Moosa fasted on this day.” He said, “We are closer to Moosa than you.” So he fasted on this day and told the people to fast.

It's uncanny that you are not a hindu, yet you quote from hindu sources and support / don't criticize hindu beliefs and customs.

But when it comes to Islam, you research and can find all the junk that your misguided sources can present. So the bottom line is that I am not going to respond to you on religious discussions here, just like ABA Trading.

Cheers!

[Kasey]

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

Do you know that the Hindu scriptures (not sure if all) HAVE BEEN PRESERVED? Their original Sanscrit versions (Ramayan and Gita I know for sure) are available to those who can understand them.

[AdamB]

adamb you quoting out of context... that verse you quoted is from king solomon expressing wonder of god that he cannot fit inside the temple etc... as spike said you cannot take everythinh literally.. some understanding is required as well,

Sorry guys, it's like Kasey said...constraints with family, work and part time garden plus sales/distribution of perishables.


Nismo,
You and your cohorts are saying that "scriptures cannot be uunderstood literally"...well how to understand it then?
COHORTS? I HAVE NO COHORTS
I was referring to Christians esp. those on this thread. [b][/b]
I say YOUR MISGUIDED DESIRES!!! The scriptures are there for guidance, yet you divert from it and CONVENIENTLY choose your interpretations, call it UNDERSTANDING when it really is misguidance cloaked under some GURU'S PHILOSOPHICAL IDEAS! Duane has brought up this point time and time again...

STUDY OF THE BIBLE!!... SOME THINGS JESUS SAID LITERALLY. SOME THINGS JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID INDIRECTLY THROUGH PARABLES.
IF A MAN SLAP YOU YOU GONNA SAY SLAP ME ON THE NEXT CHEEK? YOU SEE A CHRISTIAN DRAGGING TWO GOAT AND COW AND FOUR LAMB TO CHURCH? START TO THINK OUT OF YOUR WELL PLEASE. I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU. NO SENSE ADAM COMING TO A GUNFIGHT WITH A KNIFE!!
No need for the drama, how do you understand the parables then?

If you study your bible carefully, you will see that the things that are said clearly agree with me and those that are unclear/parables christians misinterpret and CHOOSE it to mean whatever they want it to...THEIR DESIRES!! Which is the case of the current discussion about GOD.
Please understand this, if you want to say that you KNOW GOD,
WHO SAID THEY KNOW GOD? HUMAN MIND CANNOT COMPREHEND GOD IN ALL HIS MAJESTY HENCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THERE WAS A CLOUD AROUND HIS PRESENCE ETC.
So you agree with me then!!

then that knowledge HAS to come from HIM, not from some Dr Price, DR Cash or the like, our very own Dr Dspike or the whole of Christianity, if they agree with him, has no foundation for his ideas. The problem is that our limited minds want to define GOD when it doesn't have the ability to fully conceive the reality of GOD. THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM (Quran Ch 112).

You say GOD is a spirit, what kind? Isn't Satan a spirit too? So is Satan and all spirits everywhere like you have defined GOD to be? GOD's has perfect attributes of seeing, hearing, knowing according to HIS majesty. Doesn't that necessate that HE DOES NOT have to be everywhere to see, hear and know? Then why have those attributes in the first place? GOD IS OMNIPRESENT... SATAN IS NOT..
Proof please!HE FLIES AND TRAFFICKS THE EARTH TO AND FRO AND UP AND DOWN AKA TELEPORTATION ASTRAL PROJECTION ALL THESE THINGS ARE SATANIC OCCULT POWERS.So airplanes and helicopters are satanic? Proof for teleportation?

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT YOUR SCRIPTURE IS BASED AND DERIVED FROM MY UNPRESERVED SCRIPTURE.... ANSWER MR ADAMB AND HOW YOU KNOW THAT YOURS HAS SUPERCEDED MINE? SIGH..

Read it and test it, you will see.

If that is the case, then why didn't Muhammad agree with the christian concepts of GOD being 3 in 1, the idea of a SON OF GOD, TRINITY, GOD being everywhere!

Why did't he use the christian scriptures and just say that he was the promised Messiah? Why go through all the trouble to reveal and memorize a whole new book with scientific concepts that he could not possibly have known? A book written with the best of poetry that the Arabs can't match, a man who could not read and write!!

WHY???

[AdamB]

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

Do you know that the Hindu scriptures (not sure if all) HAVE BEEN PRESERVED? Their original Sanscrit versions (Ramayan and Gita I know for sure) are available to those who can understand them.

Sorry not very versed in hindu scriptures but you said GOD is formless yet do the opposite in these stories / scriptures. Gods, sons, daughters, avatars, etc. You decifer for yourself and then tell me what you think about the nature of GOD and the concepts of GOD being everything and everything being GOD, and reincarnation, heaven and hell, etc.

Are you being partisan (displaying biased allegiance) by accepting without questioning? Or questioning, seeing that things don't add up but still accept? Possibly there is no important aspect of your life on this earth that you would put your neck under a guillotine for but consider that you are doing that by virtue of your choice in this matter and putting your ETERNAL LIFE IN PARADISE on the line.

Whatever was written, how do we know that the one writing could be trusted with memory and piety, so that he would not have exaggerated like has happened with others? Or some may be "pious" (like the catholic church) but they change with GOOD INTENTIONS! That does not make it right or better, it just makes it CORRUPTED!!

Or that it actually came for GOD? How do we know that it wasn't just made up to teach goodness? Nothing is wrong with the goodness but the method.

And in all of that, are you being deceived? In that you have the wrong concept and belief about GOD and your good works will avail you no benefit in the next life. That Satan is a clever fellow, we should not underestimate him.

Kasey,
Look, I don't judge anyone, I just have a message to deliver. It's up to each individual to put things in place to guarantee his personal success in the next life.

[nismotrinidappa]

Nismo,
You and your cohorts are saying that "scriptures cannot be uunderstood literally"...well how to understand it then?
COHORTS? I HAVE NO COHORTS
I was referring to Christians esp. those on this thread. [b][/b]

why use a negative term? have you been trained and taught to think like that?

clearly you did not get it the first time..here we go again

STUDY OF THE BIBLE!!... SOME THINGS JESUS SAID LITERALLY. SOME THINGS JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID INDIRECTLY THROUGH PARABLES.
IF A MAN SLAP YOU YOU GONNA SAY SLAP ME ON THE NEXT CHEEK? YOU SEE A CHRISTIAN DRAGGING TWO GOAT AND COW AND FOUR LAMB TO CHURCH? START TO THINK OUT OF YOUR WELL PLEASE. I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU. NO SENSE ADAM COMING TO A GUNFIGHT WITH A KNIFE!!
No need for the drama, how do you understand the parables then?

its not drama.. its showing how narrowminded your brain and thinking is

If you study your bible carefully, you will see that the things that are said clearly agree with me and those that are unclear/parables christians misinterpret and CHOOSE it to mean whatever they want it to...THEIR DESIRES!! Which is the case of the current discussion about GOD.[/color]
Please understand this, if you want to say that you KNOW GOD,
WHO SAID THEY KNOW GOD? HUMAN MIND CANNOT COMPREHEND GOD IN ALL HIS MAJESTY HENCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THERE WAS A CLOUD AROUND HIS PRESENCE ETC.
So you agree with me then!!
what in the bible you agree with and what you dont agree with?

then that knowledge HAS to come from HIM, not from some Dr Price, DR Cash or the like, our very own Dr Dspike or the whole of Christianity, if they agree with him, has no foundation for his ideas. The problem is that our limited minds want to define GOD when it doesn't have the ability to fully conceive the reality of GOD. THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM (Quran Ch 112).

You say GOD is a spirit, what kind? Isn't Satan a spirit too? So is Satan and all spirits everywhere like you have defined GOD to be? GOD's has perfect attributes of seeing, hearing, knowing according to HIS majesty. Doesn't that necessate that HE DOES NOT have to be everywhere to see, hear and know? Then why have those attributes in the first place? GOD IS OMNIPRESENT... SATAN IS NOT..
Proof please!HE FLIES AND TRAFFICKS THE EARTH TO AND FRO AND UP AND DOWN AKA TELEPORTATION ASTRAL PROJECTION ALL THESE THINGS ARE SATANIC OCCULT POWERS.So airplanes and helicopters are satanic? Proof for teleportation?

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT YOUR SCRIPTURE IS BASED AND DERIVED FROM MY UNPRESERVED SCRIPTURE.... ANSWER MR ADAMB AND HOW YOU KNOW THAT YOURS HAS SUPERCEDED MINE? SIGH..

[/quote]
Read it and test it, you will see.
If that is the case, then why didn't Muhammad agree with the christian concepts of GOD being 3 in 1, the idea of a SON OF GOD, TRINITY, GOD being everywhere!
Why did't he use the christian scriptures and just say that he was the promised Messiah? Why go through all the trouble to reveal and memorize a whole new book with scientific concepts that he could not possibly have known? A book written with the best of poetry that the Arabs can't match, a man who could not read and write!!
WHY???[/quote]

he wanted to do something different and his aim was to start a new religion.. why reinvent the wheel?

adam dont prove your stupidity please.. people already speculating

from wikipedia
Teleportation is the transfer of matter from one point to another without traversing the physical space between them, similar to the concept apport, an earlier word used in the context of spiritualism.

so airplanes disappear on the runway in piarco and reappear on jfk tarmc?
kamla helicopter disappears in st clair and reappears in south without traversing and physical airspace right adam?

adam if you really really read what was posted before and understood what people are trying to tell you you would gain much information and truth. i posted before concerning satan and trafficking etc. you take the time and look back for it.

i was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but i have come to the same conclusion of others. you dont understand much about other religions but nitpick and regurgitate your list of attacks and insults and preconceieved notions from others , pamhlets etc. if you are capable of rational thinking do some serious reading and researching. until that time i will hardly reply to your narrow minded living in the well way of thinking. caribbean airline teleporting planes and kamla teleporting helicopter is the final nail in the coffin oui!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I don't judge anyone

LOL

[Dizzy28]

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

Do you know that the Hindu scriptures (not sure if all) HAVE BEEN PRESERVED? Their original Sanscrit versions (Ramayan and Gita I know for sure) are available to those who can understand them.

And in all of that, are you being deceived? In that you have the wrong concept and belief about GOD and your good works will avail you no benefit in the next life. That Satan is a clever fellow, we should not underestimate him.

Kasey,
Look, I don't judge anyone, I just have a message to deliver. It's up to each individual to put things in place to guarantee his personal success in the next life.

Herein lies the major disagreement between you and everyone else who is not of Islamic faith. You will not believe that God can be anything other what your limited book described him to be.

[AdamB]

Anyways, I really don't believe that your scriptures have been preserved, it has been changed to include those wrong concepts but within it there is some semblance of the TRUTH, that's why I refer to it. Plus you won't accept my preserved scripture which has superceded your's. I can only show you points that confirm my view to question the concepts being dished out by the philosophers.

Do you know that the Hindu scriptures (not sure if all) HAVE BEEN PRESERVED? Their original Sanscrit versions (Ramayan and Gita I know for sure) are available to those who can understand them.

And in all of that, are you being deceived? In that you have the wrong concept and belief about GOD and your good works will avail you no benefit in the next life. That Satan is a clever fellow, we should not underestimate him.

Kasey,
Look, I don't judge anyone, I just have a message to deliver. It's up to each individual to put things in place to guarantee his personal success in the next life.

Herein lies the major disagreement between you and everyone else who is not of Islamic faith. You will not believe that God can be anything other what your limited book described him to be.

And I agree to disagree but I have the intellect to know that directly opposing views cannot all be correct / true.