Petrotrin refinery shut down

[pjfred]

Lol we know that this petrotrin restructuring inevitable.. what's the plan for Wasa/tstt/ttec

Probably none. No big loan to payback so no push for government to do anything.

The first 3 quarters of the year Petro saw a profit of $63 billion so far. Even if the company owes $10 billion they not paying it but raping this company for their own gains. Again people are you all that gullible and brainless. This company brings in quarter billion us dollars minimum every year, that's why the 1% wants it. You think they care about you fools.

[infinite_RPM]

63 billion in profit u say?

[pjfred]

All this and they still going ahead to fix the ULSD plant to a tune of 1.2b.

Niquan energy bought it at scrap iron price.
This company responds to a po box number. It is actually old PNM blow hards who wants piece of the pie. Now they using to same scrap iron to make money of of the tax payers. You!

[eliteauto]

20180825_111839.jpg
If you thought I was joking. (Extracted from a political page on Facebook).

Cleaner/labourer at Petro is $1900 per week after tax. Get your figures right. Stupid is as stupid does.

nah he was simply highlighting a narrative some espouse not actually claiming that

Nah. It's easier to screw your pan at your Refinery Operator, Production Operator or Trinmar neighbour and hope that they lose their job right before you jump in your car to thump on your dashboard in agreement with the radio announcer that's vex with the cleaner who's making more than a doctor but not before you quarrel for the 850th time this week about this 'kissmearse gas price that gone up again!!', all while on on your way to wave your Balisier in Rienzi Complex after dropping off your 19th underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

[vaiostation]

underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

To be fair, being qualified doesn't really help in getting employed at petrotrin...

[pjfred]

63 billion in profit u say?

This is why they have a block on personal devices and systems within the company, to keep documents from going public. Check how many barrels of oil are processed every day. How much are the products worth per day. Ho find out.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

At current oil prices I’m sure the refinery is profitable.

does it make any sense to shut it down even for a short while?

Or is the company just bluffing with the union? Or finding a reason to let go some staff.

[wickedtuna]

Wasn't it a while ago when they quoted figures during a down tools of money lost per day ?

[sMASH]

This sounding like a dismantle to sell out to various 1% people, under the guise of permitting shares to the public, giving the small man to own part of the company.
It will be over subscribed..

LOL. How we so sure that the big sawatee would have a monster share of the shares?

[lalloboy101]

All this and they still going ahead to fix the ULSD plant to a tune of 1.2b.

Niquan energy bought it at scrap iron price.
This company responds to a po box number. It is actually old PNM blow hards who wants piece of the pie. Now they using to same scrap iron to make money of of the tax payers. You!

Niquan bought world gtl not ulsd.

[Joshie23]

20180825_111839.jpg
If you thought I was joking. (Extracted from a political page on Facebook).

Cleaner/labourer at Petro is $1900 per week after tax. Get your figures right. Stupid is as stupid does.

nah he was simply highlighting a narrative some espouse not actually claiming that

Lol thanks eliteauto, I really didn't have the energy to defend myself. Sometimes people get too heated to effectively differentiate between friend and foe.

underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

To be fair, being qualified doesn't really help in getting employed at petrotrin...

In my line of work in addition to what I'm training to become, numbers/facts are paramount. Sure we're aware of the allegations of nepotism in Petrotrin as well as other state enterprises, but you seem to know something we don't. Can you provide facts to corroborate your statement? If there are 5,000 employees, that's one helluva family business/neighbourhood for everyone to either be related and/or know someone in Petrotrin. But weren't you trying to get into Petrotrin sometime aback? You're a brave man if you wanted to work in a refinery amongst operators that weren't qualified for their jobs.

[mitch1980]

no way in hell they can make "63 Billion " dollars in profit. more like Million

PETROTRIN DOES NOT HAVE THAT CAPACITY TO MAKE that

they produce max avg 60,000bpd @avg 65 usd for 2018 for 365 days is nowhere near the claim of "63 billion " revenues can be 1.5 billion avg at the current avg price for 2018

[Joshie23]

This sounding like a dismantle to sell out to various 1% people, under the guise of permitting shares to the public, giving the small man to own part of the company.
It will be over subscribed..

LOL. How we so sure that the big sawatee would have a monster share of the shares?

And then, the proceeds will be used to 'finance' the $850MM bond due next year. I've observed this thing for a while and I'm glad people are connecting the dots. This is why I love 2NR..lots more intelligence than the trolls on Facebook, behind their 3 and 4 fake profiles.

Yes, there are lazy, inefficient and ineffective people everywhere. I've passed through the refinery and seen it. I've passed by WASA job sites and seen it. But to squander and mismanage $1.6 billion dollars and have very little to show for it over a decade later, and then try to shift blame to the average worker while those responsible are exonerated, is criminal at the very least. And then, the powers that be, create a storm whereby Petrotrin (and T&TEC and WASA and TSTT..idk who we go vex with next) employees are now the most hated people in Trinidad, so when the 'restructuring' plans roll out, there will be no sympathy from the general public and a select few will benefit while we continue to size our red or yellow jerseys for a perfect fit.

[neilsingh100]

At current oil prices I’m sure the refinery is profitable.

does it make any sense to shut it down even for a short while?

Or is the company just bluffing with the union? Or finding a reason to let go some staff.

Profit for a refinery really does not have much to do with oil price but the refining margins and with Petrotrin those margins are negative meaning cost of crude + cost of refining > price you can sell refined products for. One of the major reasons for the refinery having negative margins is number and cost of staff operating it. If people take the politics and emotion of out this situation you would see the refinery is not profitable and this is a simple business decision that needs to be made. BTW, Petrotrin hired some of the best consultants (Solomon and Associates and the company of McKinsey) that told them this also.

[Moobs]

^^^ Just like with caroni, if you remove the politics from the equation, then you would realize it was the lack of profitability that let to it's down fall. Similarly, the exact same thing is occurring in the refinery business, that's why the government have been talking about splitting up the company. Doesn't really matter who was in power at the time, the same situation was going to occur regardless, unless the company was restructured when manning was still in power.

[pjfred]

no way in hell they can make "63 Billion " dollars in profit. more like Million

PETROTRIN DOES NOT HAVE THAT CAPACITY TO MAKE that

they produce max avg 60,000bpd @avg 65 usd for 2018 for 365 days is nowhere near the claim of "63 billion " revenues can be 1.5 billion avg at the current avg price for 2018

Petrotrin also imports nearly two thirds of the oil required to keep the refinery running profitably. Which means you have approx 150,000 bopd producing valuable sales to the company. You did not see the whole picture. That's your shortcomings. Don't mislead the public.

[pjfred]

20180825_111839.jpg
If you thought I was joking. (Extracted from a political page on Facebook).

Cleaner/labourer at Petro is $1900 per week after tax. Get your figures right. Stupid is as stupid does.

nah he was simply highlighting a narrative some espouse not actually claiming that

Lol thanks eliteauto, I really didn't have the energy to defend myself. Sometimes people get too heated to effectively differentiate between friend and foe.

underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

To be fair, being qualified doesn't really help in getting employed at petrotrin...

In my line of work in addition to what I'm training to become, numbers/facts are paramount. Sure we're aware of the allegations of nepotism in Petrotrin as well as other state enterprises, but you seem to know something we don't. Can you provide facts to corroborate your statement? If there are 5,000 employees, that's one helluva family business/neighbourhood for everyone to either be related and/or know someone in Petrotrin. But weren't you trying to get into Petrotrin sometime aback? You're a brave man if you wanted to work in a refinery amongst operators that weren't qualified for their jobs.

You say I'm trying to get into petrotrin. Tisk, tisk. Lolzzz! Like your fishing for information weak one.

[The_Honourable]

This sounding like a dismantle to sell out to various 1% people, under the guise of permitting shares to the public, giving the small man to own part of the company.
It will be over subscribed..

LOL. How we so sure that the big sawatee would have a monster share of the shares?

And then, the proceeds will be used to 'finance' the $850MM bond due next year. I've observed this thing for a while and I'm glad people are connecting the dots. This is why I love 2NR..lots more intelligence than the trolls on Facebook, behind their 3 and 4 fake profiles.

Yo... this theory legit when you think about it carefully. If this actually happens, 2NRs on point.

Roget (and others in the union) might get some shares too, he just have to tame the workers... let them pray, beat bottle, sing we shall overcome, hold hands, eloquent speeches saying comrade this and comrade that... small ting.

Just don't shell down the place which Butler would have done.

[vaiostation]

20180825_111839.jpg
If you thought I was joking. (Extracted from a political page on Facebook).

Cleaner/labourer at Petro is $1900 per week after tax. Get your figures right. Stupid is as stupid does.

nah he was simply highlighting a narrative some espouse not actually claiming that

Lol thanks eliteauto, I really didn't have the energy to defend myself. Sometimes people get too heated to effectively differentiate between friend and foe.

underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

To be fair, being qualified doesn't really help in getting employed at petrotrin...

In my line of work in addition to what I'm training to become, numbers/facts are paramount. Sure we're aware of the allegations of nepotism in Petrotrin as well as other state enterprises, but you seem to know something we don't. Can you provide facts to corroborate your statement? If there are 5,000 employees, that's one helluva family business/neighbourhood for everyone to either be related and/or know someone in Petrotrin. But weren't you trying to get into Petrotrin sometime aback? You're a brave man if you wanted to work in a refinery amongst operators that weren't qualified for their jobs.

You say I'm trying to get into petrotrin. Tisk, tisk. Lolzzz! Like your fishing for information weak one.

I think he was referring to myself.
But, to explain, I was in the process of being hired, but restructuring started so hiring was stalled.
I actually ended getting something a little better with a much larger, more stable oil and gas company, so I'm comfortable where I'm at now.

But to get to the point I was making, I'm not saying the petrotrin workers are unqualified, I'm just saying that being qualified doesn't help much without the right connections.

I saw this first hand when I was invited to a retirement party held in the petrotrin sports club. The guy retiring had about 20+ of his immediate family working there. Their bloodline run back to Texaco days. I went to school with couple friends who got through with family connections. Heck I met a few people who got link up via there political connections. This isn't something new. It happens in most government institutions as well as in private companies.

I ain't hating nobody who gt with a work. I'm just acknowledging that a lot of the times, academics can only take you so far.

[mitch1980]

no way in hell they can make "63 Billion " dollars in profit. more like Million

PETROTRIN DOES NOT HAVE THAT CAPACITY TO MAKE that

they produce max avg 60,000bpd @avg 65 usd for 2018 for 365 days is nowhere near the claim of "63 billion " revenues can be 1.5 billion avg at the current avg price for 2018

Petrotrin also imports nearly two thirds of the oil required to keep the refinery running profitably. Which means you have approx 150,000 bopd producing valuable sales to the company. You did not see the whole picture. That's your shortcomings. Don't mislead the public.

Still no way near "63 billion ".....can't hide from their 2018 published financial reports. They might be profitable in 2017 to 2018 but their overall liability is over 28 billion as off 2016.

[RedVEVO]

Sell Petrotrin . It's a simple solution .

Give it to foreigners or TT Business - Private . Better management .

Then Rouget and his parasitic supporters will get back to work or be fired .

PNM is great !

[jcrew]

I wonder if the PNM will get elected after this. Letting go 5000 workers just before school opens. All those ppl with children. Damaging the communities around Petrotrin from point fortin to pt lisas and that’s just the direct casualties. Then from suppliers to contractors. This is going to be something that ppl especially their hardcore will never forget. Men will go down for the cause for this one. Jet fuel pipeline running next to the road and thing. That talk already spreading

[hydroep]

I wonder if the PNM will get elected after this...

Most likely, because:

a. There is no valid alternative (at this time) and
b. The distribution of their grassroots support across the constituencies ensures a PNM victory. Those affected in Petrotrin may have their alliegances but very few can be considered "grassroots".

Now if they were to interfere with the Public Service, that is a different question...

[The_Honourable]

Also, keep in mind that it is better for Rowley to do it than Kamla.

The political fallout would be worse for Kamla since, as usual, race would have played into it. Keep it mind that Afro-Trinis working in the oil sector from since Butler days and before, is equivalent to Indo-Trinis working on sugar cane plantations back in the day because of history, attachment and pride. Anybody coming to take over Petrotrin will be seen as a threat, and in terms of our political landscape, Indos and the Syrians.

If Kamla was doing this, the talk would have been SIS and the cabal want to take over Petrotrin. Then it would have been "black people eh getting nuttin", "black people only will get crumbs", "dem indian not for country and want everything for deyself" etc etc. OWTU would not be soft as now and would have mobilized with Rowley and the PNM capitalizing on the opportunity.

With Rowley doing it instead, you would be chastised for "going against your own" hence why you not seeing much resistance. Most of the public also wants Petrotrin privatized and done. So the only card that can be played now is that the 1% aka the syrians taking it over (true or not remains to be seen). Of course red and ready crew will say if kamla didn't thief all the money, we coulda save petrotrin but most of the public knows Malcolm Jones, OWTU, overstaffing, political interference, nepotism, obsolete infrastructure and declining production are the causes. The drop in energy prices exposed all the mess.

[Joshie23]

20180825_111839.jpg
If you thought I was joking. (Extracted from a political page on Facebook).

Cleaner/labourer at Petro is $1900 per week after tax. Get your figures right. Stupid is as stupid does.

nah he was simply highlighting a narrative some espouse not actually claiming that

Lol thanks eliteauto, I really didn't have the energy to defend myself. Sometimes people get too heated to effectively differentiate between friend and foe.

underqualified résumé in Pointe-a-Pi.........

To be fair, being qualified doesn't really help in getting employed at petrotrin...

In my line of work in addition to what I'm training to become, numbers/facts are paramount. Sure we're aware of the allegations of nepotism in Petrotrin as well as other state enterprises, but you seem to know something we don't. Can you provide facts to corroborate your statement? If there are 5,000 employees, that's one helluva family business/neighbourhood for everyone to either be related and/or know someone in Petrotrin. But weren't you trying to get into Petrotrin sometime aback? You're a brave man if you wanted to work in a refinery amongst operators that weren't qualified for their jobs.

You say I'm trying to get into petrotrin. Tisk, tisk. Lolzzz! Like your fishing for information weak one.

Hoss, either do one of three things:
1) Chill out;
2)Learn and understand how to use TriniTuner. Quoting different tuners in the SAME post is a thing, or
3) Any variation or combination of the two.

How is it the both eliteauto and vaiostation can both figure out what's going on?

[Redress10]

"Friend, friend" and "links" will be the death of this country. We need to stop being emotional when it comes to business in this country. The reality is that this is an oil company that struggles to be efficient and profitable.

People in Trinidad too entitlted. Petrotrin doesn't owe anyone a job or a job for life. If you are dismissed then join the unemployment line and see to go again...That is life. This entitlement attitude that people have here is sickening. In any other country, Petrotrin would have been privatised long time and ago and the owner would have given OWTU and Roget the bird. They should count their blessings that they living in a place with weak political leadership. Roget still using union tactics from the 80's and expecting success. Workers don't protest by beating pot spoons and walking around in circles in hot sun all day. What world are these people living in?

[Joshie23]

"Friend, friend" and "links" will be the death of this country. We need to stop being emotional when it comes to business in this country. The reality is that this is an oil company that struggles to be efficient and profitable.

People in Trinidad too entitlted. Petrotrin doesn't owe anyone a job or a job for life. If you are dismissed then join the unemployment line and see to go again...That is life. This entitlement attitude that people have here is sickening. In any other country, Petrotrin would have been privatised long time and ago and the owner would have given OWTU and Roget the bird. They should count their blessings that they living in a place with weak political leadership. Roget still using union tactics from the 80's and expecting success. Workers don't protest by beating pot spoons and walking around in circles in hot sun all day. What world are these people living in?

TL;DR - I agree that nepotism needs to stop but how much power does the average man have to hire someone that's in the same position as him? Look at the bigger picture.

Long story - Can I disagree with you a little? Your statement about Trinidadian entitlement is true to some extent, but one fighting for their job when 23 years out of a 25 year mortgage still left to be paid is not claiming entitlement. Hearing your job is on the line 2 minutes after you've put your 6 month old son or daughter to sleep and choosing to fight to be able to provide for that little one, is not entitlement.

Add to that the fact that you come to work every day, get there at 7 or 8 and leave at 4. Go above and beyond your job description, all while trying to mitigate years of poor managerial decisions in order to keep your job, your colleagues' jobs, your department and by extension, company afloat, to hear one day that said company is about to implode and the finger and metaphorical sniper, is pointed at you, the average employee. Not the Management that may or may not enjoy (if they're not already enjoying) a handsome pension after enjoying an even 'handsomer' salary for making deleterious decisions for 20-30 something odd years. Not the Government of the day, for installing after every General Election, their non-energy experienced associates as board directors, VPs, Senior Managers and Managers that would have dug the company deeper and deeper into its mess, year after year. But you. The laser is on your chest. And then you log onto your favourite car forum, ready to crack open a cold one with the boys only to see that you're being labelled as entitled.

Do changes need to be made? Yes. Are some toes going to be stepped on? Yes. And for the record, I'm not politically persuaded in any way but I am sick and tired of government after government, doing whatever they want with public funds and resources and then when we make a rab, they throw a political bone and we hush with that. We will NEVER move forward as a nation, as a people, if we continue to fight one another because I like ketchup and you like mustard and pay attention to this...the smiling guy, who is the line minister behind the shenanigans, his $275,000 surgery was paid for by our tax dollars, while taxpayers sit for hours on end in the public hospitals, waiting for a bed and that's just one example..or was that an entitled statement.....

[Redress10]

The nepotism needed to stop decades ago. Unless you hiring the best then you will never perform at the best. It's that simple.

The entitlement that I am talking about is the rumors of sabotage and disruption of gas lines etc...Everyone has a right to fight for their jobs.

Everyone job in the world today isn't assured so whether you have a 25 year mortgage to pay or a 5 year mortgage to pay that really doesn't matter. The entire business world today is volatile especially the oil industry. So it's a bit disingenous to even take out a 25 year mortgage based on an oil based job, based in a politically unstable country such as Trinidad and Tobago. Who in the world expect to be in stable employment for the next 25 years in the same company. That is a bit short sighted and aloof. The oil sector is cyclical. It goes up and down. When it was down, did Petrotrin retrench anybody?

Ever stopped to think that some of your fellow citizens don't even have the possibility of ever affording a mortgage. Why is it that because the state is employing you that it shouldn't make rationale business decisions. If Petrotrin was a company operating in the real world it would have been downsized decades ago. That is the reality. of the business.

Getting to work at 7/8 and leaving at 4 is called......."work". You are no different than the other persons who go to their other places of work and still have to deal with messy management and find ways to perform and over perform. Nothing you say is unique to an employee at Petrotrin. You try to say that you are not entitled but yet that is how you come across as such. If you all knew that Petrotrin was in such bad shape then why did you all accept wage increases? Why didn't the union accept salary cuts to its members instead to save job losses?

All that political talk is just rubbish......If you feel that way then take it up with the various political leaderships.

Another failure is CAL but that is for another topic.

[nervewrecker]

Iirc many were not in favor of the salary increase.

In fact it went downhill from there.

Union in on it.

[Redress10]

Those unions are the cause of plenty of our problems. I don't have any problem with unions in tnt....Workers need representation etc but when all you can do is ask for a salary raise then I have a problem. I would have been union friendly if they were ensuring scholarships, equity etc for their workers' families. This salary raise thing is just a sign of an out of date union. Rouget and OWTU etc are dinosaurs.