2015/2016 Budget - Trinidad & Tobago

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Cocoa? nah that eh make sense again. I was going to plant that till I realize the trouble it takes and the small return.

End up planting 200 coconut trees instead, best thing I ever did.

[Redman]

Cocoa? nah that eh make sense again. I was going to plant that till I realize the trouble it takes and the small return.

End up planting 200 coconut trees instead, best thing I ever did.

I meant COCA..as in the plant used to make cocaine....

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Trinidad has any laws against COCA plants?

[Redman]

Dunno was just kicksing really....
But it would work nice.
lol

[Numb3r4]

The property tax isn't a bad idea so long as it implemented right. I don't think the tax could simply be based on location or the square footage of the property. I would like to think that the tax would take into account the square footage of the building on the property, what it is used for, the current income bracket of the owners in addition to the location and the overall size of the land upon which the infrastructure is placed.

[pete]

How it should work - Should be able to put in anyone's address and be able to see the value of the property. That way I can see what my neighbour has been valued at etc. If I'm living in a 2 bedroom 1 bath flat house and the neighbour has a 7 apartment complex and valued the same I should be able to query my rate etc.

To get it started is going to require a LOT of manpower to do assessments on houses. One idea to give incentive would be to tell everyone in the area that if they do not allow the assessment of the house to take place they will be assigned the maximum value for that area and must apply for subsequent visit. Have an online system where you can schedule a visit etc.

To fund the initial employment of workers set a fixed minimum for a dwelling. Maybe $200/year and that is the value everyone has to pay in the first year. Hire 1000 people and train them how to assess a house/building, let them know that people are going to watch the values online so if they give their friend a low value and it's found out they'll lose their job and the friend would have to pay the right thing anyway.

[Miktay]

Wht I anticipate _

Short Term
Review in GATE policy--only certain programs will be funded 100 percent. Ie where we have industry shortfall. Introduction of MEANS test for things such as laptops and tertiary education.. Only certain people will benefit from GATE.. .Freeness done.
A massive Home Construction Policy by HDC. To stimulate Job Creation and increase housing available to citizens. I feel that will be the main driver in this budget. Same to funded by LOAN from IADB,WB or other lending agency
A reduction of VAT
A reintroduction of Property Tax
A review of US FOREX policy
Higher taxes on Internet Based Purchases. Amazon etc.
A increase in toll paid to PTSC and an attempt to enhance the service offered.
Review of the Public Sector inclusive of Contract Employees and the enforcement of retirement age. ( Some people going to end up on the breadline)
Encouragement of Subsistence Farming and Reintroduction of Mega Farms. Review of Lands given to Caroni Workers to do agriculture. Subsidy to persons willing to get into agriculture. A repossession of lands given and no cultivation being done.
Large thrust on Tourism in attempt to diversify economy. Tobago going to see a lot of development in this regard. So to areas like Maracus, Carenage , La Brea and other national areas of heritage.

Medium Term and Long Term
An entire restructuring of National Security Apparatus
Inviting and coaxing international companies to invest through foreign delegation going to all these investment forums and sheit
Streamlining the Public Sector
Total privatisation of CAL
Possible introduction of another phone and cable company
revival of Eteck park and establishment of other industrial parks in the rural areas.
possible wage freeze for two years and stalling of negotiations
Sale of Bonds by central Bank.. 10 and 15 years

my 2 cents..

CAL go buss if that happens

[desifemlove]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_T ... ouncil_Tax good model to work on. And why manpower?

[aidan]

How it should work - Should be able to put in anyone's address and be able to see the value of the property. That way I can see what my neighbour has been valued at etc. If I'm living in a 2 bedroom 1 bath flat house and the neighbour has a 7 apartment complex and valued the same I should be able to query my rate etc.

To get it started is going to require a LOT of manpower to do assessments on houses. One idea to give incentive would be to tell everyone in the area that if they do not allow the assessment of the house to take place they will be assigned the maximum value for that area and must apply for subsequent visit. Have an online system where you can schedule a visit etc.

To fund the initial employment of workers set a fixed minimum for a dwelling. Maybe $200/year and that is the value everyone has to pay in the first year. Hire 1000 people and train them how to assess a house/building, let them know that people are going to watch the values online so if they give their friend a low value and it's found out they'll lose their job and the friend would have to pay the right thing anyway.

good sense here. wish the people in charge could think so

[De Dragon]

The property tax isn't a bad idea so long as it implemented right. I don't think the tax could simply be based on location or the square footage of the property. I would like to think that the tax would take into account the square footage of the building on the property, what it is used for, the current income bracket of the owners in addition to the location and the overall size of the land upon which the infrastructure is placed.

There are already enough incentives for lower income people, what this will do is further tax an already overtaxed middle class. Keep it strictly based on the property size and usage.

[toyolink]

I sorry,but I am reluctant to recommend anything to Govt which might backfire and make my circumstances worse.
I prefer to let the Minister and his team of advisers do what is in my 'best interest'.
My focus presently is on how I can be more prudent as far as utilization of my limited resources.
Almost everything people recommending going to reduce disposable income and increase the cost of goods and services and are premised on Govt aint going and hurt the poor man.......hmmmm.

[Numb3r4]

The property tax isn't a bad idea so long as it implemented right. I don't think the tax could simply be based on location or the square footage of the property. I would like to think that the tax would take into account the square footage of the building on the property, what it is used for, the current income bracket of the owners in addition to the location and the overall size of the land upon which the infrastructure is placed.

There are already enough incentives for lower income people, what this will do is further tax an already overtaxed middle class. Keep it strictly based on the property size and usage.

It wasn't meant to over tax the middle class or spare the poor. I simply said it can take into account the income bracket, meaning that the current finances of the persons inhabiting the structure should be a consideration, not just because I own a "good" property I must be taxed, I should be taxed based of a fair and just metric. What if the person is a retiree who invested when the property was cheap it has since gone up the property value, that person is now retired and on a fixed income (a pension), shouldn't his current financial state matter?

If anything taking the income bracket into consideration means that the middle class can be spared based on whether they fall within the income quantity for a middle class household. It does not mean that they will be taxed and the poor let off.

In addition considering the income level in combination with its use is necessary because it could be a means to promote business and other productive activities. For instance if a person has the property as his only source of income and it is used for business purposes then this could mean that he is engaged in an endeavor that is beneficial to the state in that it provides a service and employs and it still generates a taxable income. This person could receive consideration within the tax structure.

Keeping it based on property size and usage still won't be the most ideal because "poorer" folks still don't really build big houses anyway, and considering that alone would overtax middle class households.

Another example would be the owner of lets say a night club, his income is seasonal, I don't think it fair to tax him a flat tax rate based on his property size alone (which could be very large but at the same time would have required a sizable capital expenditure to get of the ground), consideration could be given to the seasonality of his income.

At the same time business could be charged an upkeep tax to ensure that the frontage of their businesses are well maintained, that I am in favour of.

[The_Honourable]

Job cuts in the energy sector... contract workers the first to go. Trinidadians coming back home.

[kaylex]

We clearly in a Monkey Pants... Cuts coming everywhere soon..
The state cant continue paying people to do nothing....
Diversification on the back burner by different govts.. we will pay for our tribal mentality..
No innovators...Degree holders with no new sectors.. perhaps this may auger well for us... we too lazy ..

Just as jamaica were forced to become more resilient after the decline of bauxite export and looked into Music and Sports Tourism among other things.. so will we... we have a little time but it calls for prudent investment and accompanying foreign policy to invite investors etc into alternate production and other industries...

[Dizzy28]

We clearly in a Monkey Pants... Cuts coming everywhere soon..
The state cant continue paying people to do nothing....
Diversification on the back burner by different govts.. we will pay for our tribal mentality..
No innovators...Degree holders with no new sectors.. perhaps this may auger well for us... we too lazy ..

Just as jamaica were forced to become more resilient after the decline of bauxite export and looked into Music and Sports Tourism among other things.. so will we... we have a little time but it calls for prudent investment and accompanying foreign policy to invite investors etc into alternate production and other industries...

Several problems there -
1. Jamaicans never experienced the levels of wealth our oil and gas industries afforded us through bauxite. We have gotten accustomed to a very "champagne lifestyle".
2. Music and Sports Tourism still doesn't benefit a wide cross section of Jamaican society. Income equality is even worse there than Trinidad and there isn't enough state resources for transfers and subsidies to allow for the poorer to get a measure of relief from the state as our poor here can.

[De Dragon]

The property tax isn't a bad idea so long as it implemented right. I don't think the tax could simply be based on location or the square footage of the property. I would like to think that the tax would take into account the square footage of the building on the property, what it is used for, the current income bracket of the owners in addition to the location and the overall size of the land upon which the infrastructure is placed.

There are already enough incentives for lower income people, what this will do is further tax an already overtaxed middle class. Keep it strictly based on the property size and usage.

It wasn't meant to over tax the middle class or spare the poor. I simply said it can take into account the income bracket, meaning that the current finances of the persons inhabiting the structure should be a consideration, not just because I own a "good" property I must be taxed, I should be taxed based of a fair and just metric. What if the person is a retiree who invested when the property was cheap it has since gone up the property value, that person is now retired and on a fixed income (a pension), shouldn't his current financial state matter?

If anything taking the income bracket into consideration means that the middle class can be spared based on whether they fall within the income quantity for a middle class household. It does not mean that they will be taxed and the poor let off.

In addition considering the income level in combination with its use is necessary because it could be a means to promote business and other productive activities. For instance if a person has the property as his only source of income and it is used for business purposes then this could mean that he is engaged in an endeavor that is beneficial to the state in that it provides a service and employs and it still generates a taxable income. This person could receive consideration within the tax structure.

Keeping it based on property size and usage still won't be the most ideal because "poorer" folks still don't really build big houses anyway, and considering that alone would overtax middle class households.

Another example would be the owner of lets say a night club, his income is seasonal, I don't think it fair to tax him a flat tax rate based on his property size alone (which could be very large but at the same time would have required a sizable capital expenditure to get of the ground), consideration could be given to the seasonality of his income.

At the same time business could be charged an upkeep tax to ensure that the frontage of their businesses are well maintained, that I am in favour of.

Ironic that the people who rent will pay no tax, while the man who slaved to construct an income property will pay through the nose. Also most people in the middle class have both parents working so the income will be inflated, and not really reflective of the "value" of a property.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Lol @ thru the nose. De Dragon what do you suggest as suitable?

[Redman]

I think that we need ed to.have an assessment.....land here is xxx per square foot on y date...
From then we adjust based on a moving average of the growth in GDP or inflation rate.

So that the numeric attached to the taxable value is less likely to be skewed by short term issues.

We have on a regular basis periods where the market price is volatile and assessment on these values are subjective...

[York]

How will they assess properties for which the owners dont have completion certificates. They can argue that their house is not completed, still in construction so dont have to pay tax.

[kaylex]

Lol @ thru the nose. De Dragon what do you suggest as suitable?

ditto..
I think renters already pay through their noses due to no regulation

[The_Honourable]

How will they assess properties for which the owners dont have completion certificates. They can argue that their house is not completed, still in construction so dont have to pay tax.

I would suggest that:

If you are found living or doing business in a building after x months without a completion certificate, you would be taxed. After some time, the tax man will keep checking yuh (in case you made additions/upgrades to the building) until you get that completion certificate.

[Miktay]

Ironic that the people who rent will pay no tax, while the man who slaved to construct an income property will pay through the nose. Also most people in the middle class have both parents working so the income will be inflated, and not really reflective of the "value" of a property.

That iz not entirely accurate.

What yuh think landlords are going to do when their expenses increase?

Take one guess...

[make meh care]

make them pay the tax

[Numb3r4]

The property tax isn't a bad idea so long as it implemented right. I don't think the tax could simply be based on location or the square footage of the property. I would like to think that the tax would take into account the square footage of the building on the property, what it is used for, the current income bracket of the owners in addition to the location and the overall size of the land upon which the infrastructure is placed.

There are already enough incentives for lower income people, what this will do is further tax an already overtaxed middle class. Keep it strictly based on the property size and usage.

It wasn't meant to over tax the middle class or spare the poor. I simply said it can take into account the income bracket, meaning that the current finances of the persons inhabiting the structure should be a consideration, not just because I own a "good" property I must be taxed, I should be taxed based of a fair and just metric. What if the person is a retiree who invested when the property was cheap it has since gone up the property value, that person is now retired and on a fixed income (a pension), shouldn't his current financial state matter?

If anything taking the income bracket into consideration means that the middle class can be spared based on whether they fall within the income quantity for a middle class household. It does not mean that they will be taxed and the poor let off.

In addition considering the income level in combination with its use is necessary because it could be a means to promote business and other productive activities. For instance if a person has the property as his only source of income and it is used for business purposes then this could mean that he is engaged in an endeavor that is beneficial to the state in that it provides a service and employs and it still generates a taxable income. This person could receive consideration within the tax structure.

Keeping it based on property size and usage still won't be the most ideal because "poorer" folks still don't really build big houses anyway, and considering that alone would overtax middle class households.

Another example would be the owner of lets say a night club, his income is seasonal, I don't think it fair to tax him a flat tax rate based on his property size alone (which could be very large but at the same time would have required a sizable capital expenditure to get of the ground), consideration could be given to the seasonality of his income.

At the same time business could be charged an upkeep tax to ensure that the frontage of their businesses are well maintained, that I am in favour of.

Ironic that the people who rent will pay no tax, while the man who slaved to construct an income property will pay through the nose. Also most people in the middle class have both parents working so the income will be inflated, and not really reflective of the "value" of a property.

First point: The renters will pay the tax indirectly, landlords would most definitely pass on the tax burden onto their renters. A bad thing obviously, this is why we must consider the property's use, if it is for housing, commercial business or industrial and adjust accordingly.

Second point: With respect to the "middle class" yes the income for the property will be inflated, but as I said before consideration should be given, that is if the income falls within the range deemed to be "middle class" then the tax structure should give allowance for that. I said that income is a consideration in that when you consider it you may either choose to tax more or offer a discount. The default mentality should not necessarily be to tax more. Furthermore I never said that the income associated with the property is reflective of the value of the property, as I said before it is a consideration when taxing.

[Numb3r4]

I assume the tax structure could look like this:

Start with a base metric like: In use/usable square footage

1 In use/usable square footage $0.00/sq.ft.
2 Property Location
City 2.0x
Residential 1.5x
Country 1.0x
3 Property Use
Family 1.1x
Business
Commercial (Sale of Piece goods) 1.2x
Industrial (Sale of specialty equipment) 1.3x
Rental/Housing 1.2x
Industrial
Chemical 1.4x
Manufacturing 1.2x
4 Total income generated by household or
income generated by person building is registered to.
Bracket 1 (Low) 1.2x
Bracket 2 (Middle) 1.1x
Bracket 3 (Upper) 1.3x
5 Total property size, as defined by the property boundaries $0.00/sq.ft.

TOTAL

The order can be adjusted accordingly, but this is the general idea.
A multiplier can be applied to the appropriate points that describe the property best.

[Numb3r4]

The multipliers are applied to the base metric to get the value for each of the appropriate classes.

[nervewrecker]

Seeing hints of rapid rail on the newspapers.

[The_Honourable]

And the line up at gas stations begins

[nervewrecker]

Half tank in the frontier. Gas station eh seeing me till next month.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Numb3r4]

Seeing hints of rapid rail on the newspapers.

At this point once it comes to Fyzabad then I'm happy.

Yet even before that what is the state of the Highway project?
Is there going to be any attempt to salvage it?
What about those whose lands were commandeered for the highway and paid what will happen?
Will they be allowed to buyback the land or must they stay where they are?