Fuel Subsidy/Gas Price Issues

[Morpheus]

Raise prices more evenly. Why premium alone must absorb that big hit?

no one cares about premium, some men boast at the pumps their cars run it and on the forums there is the my car takes X amount to fill feel sorry for me. Sell off and go diesel. Captiva is 380 and you getting financing normal normal

Why? And they going and raise the others soon too?

Because a few fools boast because somehow premium makes them push out their chest and feel superior it doesn't mean everyone has the same attitude.

And apparently some people do care about premium eh.....

@Pete I considering all that. As soon as I decide to switch to a super or diesel ride, price will go up. That's just my kinda luck

[kevcam]

Government’s decision to raise the price of premium gasoline from $4 to $5.75 in last year’s national budget only netted $69.2 million, short of the $100 million it was expected to bring in.

Finance and Economy Minister Larry Howai acknowledged that the $30 million difference would not have made a significant impact in a $58 billion budget, but it did send a clear signal about Government’s intent to systematically reduce its $4.3 billion fuel subsidy.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/How ... 08261.html

[Redman]

Any body have a good REAL reason to remove the subsidy?????

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Any body have a good REAL reason to remove the subsidy?????

The money saved by reducing it could be used to improve other aspects of the country. To me that is a real reason but the problem as always is would the money saved really be used to improve other aspects or would it be wasted. And by reducing the subsidy I don't just mean raise prices on super/diesel but also switching the majority of the population to cng.

[pete]

There's no incentive right now.

No push for people to change to CNG cause right now fuel is cheap. No push for people to demand more CNG stations because fuel is cheap. No push for people to look into using public transport, carpooling etc. cause fuel is cheap. No push for companies to fill delivery vehicles and hold off deliveries until they get enough orders to fill the trucks because fuel is cheap.

Everywhere else in the Caribbean people are surviving with much higher fuel prices. Why can't we?

I have a feeling if the local gov't elections go badly for the PP then they may say to hell with that, subsidy gonna go so they can "use" that $8Bn for other things until they get voted out in 2015.

[nemisis]

Raise prices more evenly. Why premium alone must absorb that big hit?

no one cares about premium, some men boast at the pumps their cars run it and on the forums there is the my car takes X amount to fill feel sorry for me. Sell off and go diesel. Captiva is 380 and you getting financing normal normal

Why? And they going and raise the others soon too?

Because a few fools boast because somehow premium makes them push out their chest and feel superior it doesn't mean everyone has the same attitude.

And apparently some people do care about premium eh.....

@Pete I considering all that. As soon as I decide to switch to a super or diesel ride, price will go up. That's just my kinda luck

if "they raising the others soon too?" then hold strain or switch to cng.

[src1983]

I wish we had a train.

[Naz]

If the subsidy is removed,more money for them to waste/thief.

2nd this!!!

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

There's no incentive right now.

No push for people to change to CNG cause right now fuel is cheap. No push for people to demand more CNG stations because fuel is cheap. No push for people to look into using public transport, carpooling etc. cause fuel is cheap. No push for companies to fill delivery vehicles and hold off deliveries until they get enough orders to fill the trucks because fuel is cheap.

Everywhere else in the Caribbean people are surviving with much higher fuel prices. Why can't we?

I have a feeling if the local gov't elections go badly for the PP then they may say to hell with that, subsidy gonna go so they can "use" that $8Bn for other things until they get voted out in 2015.

Those other countries may "survive" with it but they usually missing things we enjoy in our country. GATE for instance or free secondary school education depending on which country you look at. Also don't think they not looking for cheaper fuel prices too. Just saying. Other things too if one really drills down into each country.

One other thing is that there is no push for us to switch to cng because the cng infrastructure hasn't been put in place. If the Government (this one and the next) decide they will finish putting cng infrastructure in place they will raise liquid fuel prices. I'm not so sure political parties think like that to raise prices now just because they lose local government. Trini memory short. Could be bad now but you get vote back een with a good campaign. Likewise the opposite is true but if they really touched that subsidy for spite just to thief and without proper alternative infrastructure then that would be a nail in the coffin.

[improvednewbie]

people fail to realise we are an oil and gas rich country.why must we suffer from the pollution of all these industries and their waste such as the refinery etc.It is our oil and gas.we should not have to pay the full price.the subsidary should remain.

[pete]

Then why should we have to pay for fuel at all? Bump the subsidy up to $7Billion and let's get free gas.

[zoom rader]

I wish we had a train.

We did but the car dealarships with a metal scrap dealer convinced the then PNM to get rid of the trains in favor of ppl buying cars.

[src1983]

I would like to see the feasibility study on the rapid rail

It available?

[pete]

How close you live to the nearest station?

[zoom rader]

I would like to see the feasibility study on the rapid rail

It available?

See imbert on racket rail project

[5onDfloor]

The Fuel subsidy is the the only derivative i enjoy as a citizen of a oil gas rich country. If only Govt past present and future were prudent with our dollars i would be be able to boast of further enjoyments ....until then leave the bloody subsidy alone!

[88sins]

A lot of very good points being raised here. But the fuel subsidy is only 1 of a precious few real direct contributions this state makes to it's citizenry. If they want to remove it, let them. But before that they need to fix ALL roads PROPERLY so drivers can go more than 20 feet before they hit a lump/hump/sink/pothole, since IIRC when fuel costs went up several years ago it was THEIR claim was that it was a tax to help upkeep the nations roadways. So far i don't see that much upkeep anywhere.
If they're thinking about how much the subsidy costs in lost revenue and state borne expenditure, there are other ways for the state to bring in sustainable revenue.

[Redman]

Any body have a good REAL reason to remove the subsidy?????

The money saved by reducing it could be used to improve other aspects of the country. To me that is a real reason but the problem as always is would the money saved really be used to improve other aspects or would it be wasted. And by reducing the subsidy I don't just mean raise prices on super/diesel but also switching the majority of the population to cng.

Well the only reason is the 'cost'.
Thats all-throw up the cost specifically and then everything else is fuzzy.
There is no other reason.


Why CANT WE AFFORD IT???
Based on what metrics cant we afford it?

If the issue is cost-then there needs to be a rationalization of everything. Cut the wastage everywhere else before you take the subsidy away from the people.

If we were to stream line WASA and Petrotrin we could 'save ' a chunk of the subsidy.
If all contracts were to be done via reverse auction we will save a chunk
If all supplies used by government were done by reverse auction we will save another chunk.

Them 3 chunks will pay for we gas.

pete suggested free gas-and conceptually why not?
If things were being done properly and we running surplus budgets with an efficient clean govt-then why not direct the as much as possible of the benefits towards the citizens?

4B worth of subsidy is about 3000 per person a year.
Who you prefer to manage that for you-GORTT?
Right now we receive the benefit-once removed what will we

The truth is that they do not know how much fuel is being stolen -its easy to control this but it interferes with coke operations if you lock down ports.
So instead of dealing with the issue -lack of enforcement,they say kill the subsidy.

Just like this 6% tax to underwrite uninsured accidents-a lack of enforcement -so they tax me to pay for a lack of enforcement of existing law.


So I think that we can afford the subsidy,keep it- eliminate the wastage IN govt before you remove this benefit and deal with the lack of enforcement.

[pete]

Free gas might actually only be 1.5 billion more in subsidy. Gasoline subsidy was supposed to be around 1 billion and diesel subsidy(land) was 2billion. If the cost of super is more than double the current selling price then to remove cost completely would cost less than 1billion. Diesel cost is probably 3-4x the current selling price if you remove revenue from that all you're losing is another 500-600 million a year. Subsidy could be 6Billion instead. Less money for them to tief, taxi fare could go to zero, I could finally justify buying a EVO to drive to work and not mind the 6km/L, etc etc.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Any body have a good REAL reason to remove the subsidy?????

The money saved by reducing it could be used to improve other aspects of the country. To me that is a real reason but the problem as always is would the money saved really be used to improve other aspects or would it be wasted. And by reducing the subsidy I don't just mean raise prices on super/diesel but also switching the majority of the population to cng.

Well the only reason is the 'cost'.
Thats all-throw up the cost specifically and then everything else is fuzzy.
There is no other reason.


Why CANT WE AFFORD IT???
Based on what metrics cant we afford it?

If the issue is cost-then there needs to be a rationalization of everything. Cut the wastage everywhere else before you take the subsidy away from the people.

If we were to stream line WASA and Petrotrin we could 'save ' a chunk of the subsidy.
If all contracts were to be done via reverse auction we will save a chunk
If all supplies used by government were done by reverse auction we will save another chunk.

Them 3 chunks will pay for we gas.

pete suggested free gas-and conceptually why not?
If things were being done properly and we running surplus budgets with an efficient clean govt-then why not direct the as much as possible of the benefits towards the citizens?

4B worth of subsidy is about 3000 per person a year.
Who you prefer to manage that for you-GORTT?
Right now we receive the benefit-once removed what will we

The truth is that they do not know how much fuel is being stolen -its easy to control this but it interferes with coke operations if you lock down ports.
So instead of dealing with the issue -lack of enforcement,they say kill the subsidy.

Just like this 6% tax to underwrite uninsured accidents-a lack of enforcement -so they tax me to pay for a lack of enforcement of existing law.


So I think that we can afford the subsidy,keep it- eliminate the wastage IN govt before you remove this benefit and deal with the lack of enforcement.

I hear yuh but I not sure if what you state is as easy as you make it sound. It would be nice though. You're saying deal with the other first. I'd say why not work on all those things at the same time? Who isn't to say things at Petrotrin aren't being streamlined all now?

How did you come up with 3000 persons equating to 4B? I also don't think the plan is to shaft the population on the subsidy but more so to shift it really. CNG would still be subsidized. It's just that to subsidize 1 litre equivalent of CNG is significantly cheaper to do than subsidize 1 litre of diesel or super. I don't agree with the free gasoline/diesel idea. Nothing in life is free. Free gas will just lead to gas guzzling and vehicle proliferation and traffic and the need to keep building more roads and complex road infrastructure as well as more pollution and possibly more of a strain on health care services.

Lots of things do need fixing but the solutions need to be weighed very carefully.

[Redman]

4b divided by 1.3M people =$3000 a head

The free gas was conceptually, in that if we as a people decide that the Subsidy is the mechanism that WE prefer to benefit from the natural resources that the country was blessed with then it should remain.
Whether it be a reduction of taxes or what ever, we should be able to chose how we receive that benefit.

Right now Petrotrin is in such a mess that it has to import oil to meet refining demands -if we were to bring production up to meet that demand we would be able to keep the subsidy-a barrel of local oil will cost the country 47 USD (after SPT,tax and user fee) while an imported barrel costs 90+


So I suggest that Petrotrin is also in a mess and YEARS away from being additive to our situation.


And yes the mechanism could be subsidized CNG-which now is cheaper -but also subject to international prices(Japan pays 16 USD per MMBTU,Henry Hub was once at 13 USD), but its the Govts duty to put the infrastructure in place first-before forcing the migration through price.

CNG is YEARS away from being able to match the availability of liquid fuels.

We have about 500,000 vehicles on the road how long should we take to convert?
with a tax allowance of $40,000 per car converting half the vehicles will be 10B in tax breaks.

NP spends exponentially more time and money to do any upgrades to their sites.
How long you think this will take?

The govt should say that we will remove the liquid subsidy 365 days after we have a distribution system to support the needs of the public.
And the distribution will be XXXX supporting YYYY vehicles.

Removing the subsidy without substantial alternatives is punitive,and is a direct TAX on the population

[ingalook]

Government is asking us to tighten our belts - while they continue to squander.... how much natural Gas does Petrotrin be "flaring" off all the time? The people from Marabella to St Margrets eh need no damn streetlights most of the time is like daylight down dey!

An what about E85? I honestly didn't know much about this until educated about it today and I get VEX when I hear that it comes from bagasse!