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When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

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W2J
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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby W2J » October 28th, 2013, 7:09 pm

there is a legal memo out, vat should be dropped this week and duties the following week coming.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Chimera » October 28th, 2013, 7:34 pm

W2J wrote:there is a legal memo out, vat should be dropped this week and duties the following week coming.



!!!
great

have stock coming in for xmas.

hope they drop it BEFORE that

if they drop it after then i`m screwed

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby pugboy » October 28th, 2013, 7:57 pm

sure,
it appears almost all of these DVR's on the market use the same or similar software inside of them and most people simply put them to record continuously.

I have tried changing a camera to record on motion detect only.
It is rather poor and does not trigger many times, set high sensitivity and all pixels etc.

Spoke to a few installers and they said same thing, all they do is install with full recording and you have to sit and do a fast forward and watch the whole thing.

This doesn't really make much sense if you want to check back if and when somebody jumped over a wall and jumped back.

I used to have a Linux based one called Zoneminder which has very good software,
you can pull up a list of all motion triggers and check them easily.
Recording 24hrs is a waste of space, better to simply record when there is motion in the camera's view.

Have you been able to get motion detect recording to work well or only use full 24hr record ?

sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:any dvr experts here ?
I have some questions concerning the software in them

Well ask i know i good bit about them :grin:

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 28th, 2013, 9:35 pm

pugboy wrote:sure,
it appears almost all of these DVR's on the market use the same or similar software inside of them and most people simply put them to record continuously.

I have tried changing a camera to record on motion detect only.
It is rather poor and does not trigger many times, set high sensitivity and all pixels etc.

Spoke to a few installers and they said same thing, all they do is install with full recording and you have to sit and do a fast forward and watch the whole thing.

This doesn't really make much sense if you want to check back if and when somebody jumped over a wall and jumped back.

I used to have a Linux based one called Zoneminder which has very good software,
you can pull up a list of all motion triggers and check them easily.
Recording 24hrs is a waste of space, better to simply record when there is motion in the camera's view.

Have you been able to get motion detect recording to work well or only use full 24hr record ?

sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:any dvr experts here ?
I have some questions concerning the software in them

Well ask i know i good bit about them :grin:

Oww Zoneminder is good but I usually use stock
The motion trigger with basic system only work if u directly infront of it and sum jus doh work at all so I usually blame that one the camera type because I've seen some that works really good with stock...And i dont use motion detect mode because i live Arima so 24hr and wipe every 14 days is what i usual do..So using custom software is cool for personal use but most of time business men only watch through if they get rob or something so 24hr...And yea man I think I'll take a try with that software this weekend with the motion senor

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby BlueIce » October 29th, 2013, 9:30 am

W2J wrote:there is a legal memo out, vat should be dropped this week and duties the following week coming.


fingers crossed this pulls true

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 29th, 2013, 2:08 pm

DVR motion detection is not based in the camera so how/why would the brand of camera affect it?

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 29th, 2013, 2:34 pm

Strugglerzinc wrote:DVR motion detection is not based in the camera so how/why would the brand of camera affect it?

Thats just my observation from doing them because because they had the same firmware but different performance so i blamed it on the camera even though it isnt but what else could of it been?

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 29th, 2013, 6:02 pm

Practical experience usually trumps theory but that is odd. Possibly bit rate or TVL made a difference on the different cameras.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby pugboy » October 29th, 2013, 6:29 pm

I think 100% of cctv dvr owners simply have their units on 24hr record and wait for something to happen the playback.

Using a system as an entry alarm system would be a great plus.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 29th, 2013, 7:26 pm

I use basic IP cameras. The NVR software records at 2fps constantly (user variable) and at max fps on alarm. You're probably right as there is no option to record only on motion detect.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby pugboy » October 29th, 2013, 7:28 pm

If u ever get the chance, check out zoneminder
Chalk and cheese

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 29th, 2013, 9:37 pm

Wait never looked into setting up the alarm how do u know that? I know u use the green plugs on the back.mm

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 29th, 2013, 10:32 pm

For my case when i said alarm i meant motion detect alarm.

Never had cause to configure the alarm in/out terminals.

I will have to build a linux machine to try zoneminder. I may be too lazy for that.

Currently use genius vision on their free "community" license.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 29th, 2013, 10:34 pm

Aite guess ill have to look into how that works because it could come in hand

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby pugboy » October 30th, 2013, 7:55 am

I am looking to replace my 2 dvrs soon with zoneminder Linux boxes
You can get a kodicom 8channel clone for around $50usd or so.
Combined with an old PC it is a much better solution.
You can use the kodicom software or zoneminder.

these boards have much higher quality mpeg encoding.
The Chinese dvr boxes use crappy encoders which is why most of them have poor video
and people blame the cameras in most cases.

Additional boards can be added to pc for more cameras.

Only catch is to get a nice small pc that takes little space and is self rebooting when power goes/comes

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby W2J » October 30th, 2013, 12:32 pm

LEGAL NOTICE NO. 178
REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
THE VALUE ADDED TAX ACT, CHAP. 75:06
ORDER
MADE BY THE MINISTER UNDER SECTION 8 OF THE VALUE ADDED TAX
ACT AND SUBJECT TO NEGATIVE RESOLUTION OF THE PARLIAMENT
THE VALUE ADDED TAX (AMENDMENT TO SCHEDULE 2)
(NO. 2) ORDER, 2013
1. This Order may be cited as the Value Added Tax (Amendment to
Schedule 2) (No. 2) Order, 2013.
2. Schedule 2 of the Value Added Tax Act is amended by inserting
after item 30A, the following item:
“ 30B. (1) Closed Circuit Television (CCTV) systems as
presented, put up in packages for retail sale comprising the
following main components:
(a) CCTV camera(s);
(b) VCR or DVR;
(c) video monitor(s);
(d) cables; and
(e) a controller, switches, audio board/receivers.
(2) The CCTV systems referred to in subitem (1)
shall have the following minimum specifications:
(a) in analog systems, a complete analog surveillance
kit with digital video recorder, day/night 560 TVL
cameras and infrared LEDs, with installation
materials; or
(b) in digital systems, a surveillance system with
internet protocol (IP) security cameras, network
video recorder and installation materials.
(3) The CCTV systems referred to in subitem (1)
shall–
(a) be NTSC compatible;
Legal Supplement Part B–Vol. 52, No. 111–30th August, 2013 555
Citation
Schedule 2
amended
(b) have a minimum of–
(i) 560 TV lines, in repsect of analog systems;
or
(ii) 1 megapixel, in respect of digital systems;
and
(c) have a minimum of 1.0 luminous flux per unit area
(lux).
(4) The CCTV systems referred to in subitem (1)
may–
(a) have infrared LEDs; and
(b) contain kits of 4, 8, 16, 24 or 36 cameras.”.
3. Legal Notice No. 355 of 2012 dated 2nd October, 2012 is revoked.
Dated this 26th day of August, 2013.
L. HOWAI
Minister of Finance and the Economy
556 Value Added Tax (Amendment to Schedule 2) (No. 2) Order, 2013
Legal Notice
No. 355 of
2012 revoked

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 30th, 2013, 7:06 pm


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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby pugboy » October 30th, 2013, 7:10 pm

I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 30th, 2013, 7:16 pm

pugboy wrote:I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

Ok kwl because i never used the brand but the specs are good and was recommending it to a tuner jus wanted to make sure its good
Because it 600tvl with 1/3 cmos and i know that good quality

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby W2J » October 30th, 2013, 7:54 pm

sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

Ok kwl because i never used the brand but the specs are good and was recommending it to a tuner jus wanted to make sure its good
Because it 600tvl with 1/3 cmos and i know that good quality


That's not good quality

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 30th, 2013, 8:14 pm

W2J wrote:
sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

Ok kwl because i never used the brand but the specs are good and was recommending it to a tuner jus wanted to make sure its good
Because it 600tvl with 1/3 cmos and i know that good quality


That's not good quality

U checked out the system?
I have same camera like that i think n the does look good

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby javishm » October 31st, 2013, 12:36 am

looking for a decent system for home use....4-8 camera set up......for online viewing and decent enough night quality video also...what can u guys suggest

thanks

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Chimera » October 31st, 2013, 7:20 am

it have up to 1000 tvl these days eh

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 31st, 2013, 8:18 am

sonygoup wrote:
W2J wrote:
sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

Ok kwl because i never used the brand but the specs are good and was recommending it to a tuner jus wanted to make sure its good
Because it 600tvl with 1/3 cmos and i know that good quality


That's not good quality

U checked out the system?
I have same camera like that i think n the does look good


He's probably getting at CMOS vs CCD. Long and drawn out comparison.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sonygoup » October 31st, 2013, 8:34 am

I know but it gonna be used as a home syste so i thinl 600tvl would be good and yea ccd better than cmos because of the light exposure right?

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sk1111 » November 14th, 2013, 12:40 pm

I just brought in a system and the skybox charged vat and duty...

I wasn;t in the office so they just paid it.

Am I mistaken ?

help clarify please

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby Strugglerzinc » November 14th, 2013, 1:48 pm

Gonna take another year to trickle down to Customs and skyboxes.

The notice above only mentions VAT and specific configurations.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby New_SPECIES » November 14th, 2013, 3:53 pm

Strugglerzinc wrote:
sonygoup wrote:
W2J wrote:
sonygoup wrote:
pugboy wrote:I bought the 8ch version of that, later bought two 8ch swann's
They are all of same quality

Ok kwl because i never used the brand but the specs are good and was recommending it to a tuner jus wanted to make sure its good
Because it 600tvl with 1/3 cmos and i know that good quality


That's not good quality

U checked out the system?
I have same camera like that i think n the does look good


He's probably getting at CMOS vs CCD. Long and drawn out comparison.


Number of TVL means nothing with CMOS cameras...

I was going to post a thread with some advice on buying cameras/systems etc... but I saw it all over d internet and decided that it made no sense.

If someone is really looking for value for money, then sufficient research is required!
I think before a person spends thousands of dollars on a CCTV system, they should try to understand how it operates.

See some examples of information:

TVL or television lines –
This is the number of horizontal lines a camera can record and if you`ve done a bit of research already, you would be forgiven for thinking it's the holy grail of camera quality. It isn't.
Of far more importance is ensuring the correct lens for your particular application. No amount of TVL will allow a particular lens to capture detail beyond its natural ability.
At D1 resolution you have a given number of pixels (around 400,000) and you need the lens to concentrate sufficient pixels onto the subject to allow you to capture detail.
If a 380TVL camera allows you to read a number plate at 15 metres for instance (probably around a 22mm lens) then a 700 TVL camera with the same lens wouldn't be able to read it at 20 metres. It might manage an extra half metre or so but that's it.
The final thing to keep in mind is that many figures quoted are untrue or misleading. A number of the UK national retailers are currently claiming a TVL resolution for their cameras which is in fact only achievable in black and white at night. The daytime colour resolution is less than the figure emblazened across their websites and publicity material!


CCD and CMOS sensors - the camera's retina
There are 2 types of camera sensor. CMOS (short for complementary metal oxide semiconductor), sensors require a lot more off chip circuitry to clean up the image if you want a high quality result. Costing less to produce CMOS sensors offer a cheap solution at the expense of quality for lower resolution applications. CCD sensors (short for charge coupled device), are more expensive to produce but the image quality is generally higher needing less electronic "touching up". Most professional cameras tend to use CCD technology.



It simply makes no sense to spend thousands on a system, then,
when it is required to gather information from the video (eg. faces of people, license plates, etc), it can't be done.

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby sk1111 » November 15th, 2013, 5:50 pm

I brought in a ip surveillance
System 2mp. Suppose to show extremely clear.

Will install Sunday...

I'm still going to fight for my $250 for the vat charged

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Re: When will Taxes be removed on CCTV systems....?

Postby R-H-D » November 15th, 2013, 8:35 pm

Got a shipment today broker put in an entrée in customs house full duty and vat were charged
Plus the officer sent an envelope with a letter asking for a donation for their Christmas party of $2000

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