Who to lead PNM?

[pyung99]

party surely must evolve first and be d pull factor for change in the votership mentality.

[rfari]

put a hand lord! well let me know how u think pnm should evolve. or them good to go jesso?

Devolve. Voting on race. Devolve.
Evolve. Voting on issues and what a party brings to the table. Evolve.

This what the PP supporters here fail to realise, 2 years ago the PP wanted voters to evolve and vote on issues, and they did, there are 3 facets to the PP win, firstly some ppl voted not against the PNM but against Manning, secondly ppl voted on issues (corruption, nepotism, smelter/property tax etc), thirdly many PNM supporters did one of 2 things some did not vote because they would not stain their finger for the PP but were unhappy with the PNM and secondly some traditional PNM voters switched sides. Without PNM voters could seats like Lopinot/Bon Air, Arima, D'Abadie /O'meara have been won by the PP?

What the PP should have done (and what I expected them to do) was go aggressively against the corruption, address social needs and conduct business above board, ensuring that those swing votes/seats would be happy with the change and give them a minimum 2 term mandate, any political strategist worth his salt would have advised that. Voting based on race is dying, voting on issues is rising and the empowerment the electorate felt 2 years ago is not forgotten. The next election will be an issues one I hope the PP can deal with that

Well facking said hoss! I hope py and others understand this because no matter how basic i break it down, they not seeing this

[rfari]

that pretty much is what people want in general.

to me the only way for that to happen is if both sides provide a balance so that those who vote on race cannot be satisfied either way. and hence must vote on issues.

i eh kno nuh. parties does/should do wah they feel they need to do in order to win. pnm hah d biggest and baddest base votership, so why mess with that. them probably kno they can win as things stand.

i say for evolve for d betterment of the country. gheee we sumn different to think about nex elections. i hah meh excel spreadsheet ready.

You thinking as a politician using the old political model that we have been using donkey years now. And it is to the detriment of the country. Regardless of how much ethnic balancing.is to occur within a party, there will always be the perception of imbalance. We have to get that clear; same mindset from the people, same tribal voting.

Thinking about it, u are merely responding to the ched's title and i shouldnt give you wrong. You are solving the dilemma posed in the ched title using an archaic political model that is in an equally outdated political system that still functions.
We on two differing systems. Correct?

[pyung99]

yea im answering the ched title.

in my opinion, if someone wants to be tribal and vote on race, pnm is a clear choice. no one can deny that a large proportion of those who vote pnm vote by race, another large proportion vote by party.

and if pnm doesnt change their team to better represent balance, i find they just using the good old strategy that has worked for them (and probably still will). it represents what they expect from their base and followers. they giving the base support what d base support want.

someone made a point that the marginal seats were won because people shifted from voting pnm to vote for the pp. well those people are in the minority. it was still an obviously tight win. those are called swing voters. pnm only lost 14000 votes (from wiki). without a coalition of parties, guess what, it was win for them again.

so rfari, your solution is to change d political model. a reprogramming maybe? how tuh do that if there isn't balance, not even feigned. yuh would raise d bridge or lower d water level?

pnm is such an important force in trinidad that in order to effect that same change everyone wants, pnm has to take some responsibility and change first dammit.

[zoom rader]

^^^ PNM is getting rebranded for the second time with the same Old members, Rowley,Hinds and Guy Smilely. This new or rebranded PNM is like putting a plaster on a sore, they need to purge out the pus they carrying. Maybe Penny will change all this.

[BRZ]

WHilst the PP have shown signs of unsteadyness, they are still the far more logical choice as compared to the shambles of the opposition.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

PR PR PR. Say something enough times eventually people will believe you. It's the philosophy of the PP.
I am not for either party but it is folly that PP supporters parrot what they hear elsewhere believing it to be true without questioning. Say PNM is bad and will never return to power and eventually people will believe it but in the meanwhile it can be argued that the PP hasn't done much better either.

[j.o.e]

^^^^ da truth

[~Vēġó~]

real interesting discussions!!! keep it up!

[rfari]

yea im answering the ched title.

in my opinion, if someone wants to be tribal and vote on race, pnm is a clear choice. no one can deny that a large proportion of those who vote pnm vote by race, another large proportion vote by party.

and if pnm doesnt change their team to better represent balance, i find they just using the good old strategy that has worked for them (and probably still will). it represents what they expect from their base and followers. they giving the base support what d base support want.

someone made a point that the marginal seats were won because people shifted from voting pnm to vote for the pp. well those people are in the minority. it was still an obviously tight win. those are called swing voters. pnm only lost 14000 votes (from wiki). without a coalition of parties, guess what, it was win for them again.

so rfari, your solution is to change d political model. a reprogramming maybe? how tuh do that if there isn't balance, not even feigned. yuh would raise d bridge or lower d water level?

pnm is such an important force in trinidad that in order to effect that same change everyone wants, pnm has to take some responsibility and change first dammit.

Some homework to do. Pull a map of the strongholds and the voter turn outs for these constituencies over the last 4 elections. Lewwe start to deal wid facts

[eliteauto]

the main proponents for PNM changes are PP supporters, PP supporters are the ones saying PNM will never win under Rowley, PP supporters are the ones saying Penny Beckles is a better choice, PP supporters are the ones saying change the hierarchy of the PNM, ironically these same PP supporters are the ones saying they will never vote PNM and boast the PNM will never return to power, so if you were the PNM would you take advice from those who hate you?

[16 cycles]

sometimes yuh enemy is give you the best advice....sometimes...

[eliteauto]

sometimes yuh enemy is give you the best advice....sometimes...

I totally agree, enemies are your greatest motivator at times too, but anyone following politics here for more than 10 years will know better when it comes to PNM vs (random opposition configurations)

[pyung99]

yea im answering the ched title.

in my opinion, if someone wants to be tribal and vote on race, pnm is a clear choice. no one can deny that a large proportion of those who vote pnm vote by race, another large proportion vote by party.

and if pnm doesnt change their team to better represent balance, i find they just using the good old strategy that has worked for them (and probably still will). it represents what they expect from their base and followers. they giving the base support what d base support want.

someone made a point that the marginal seats were won because people shifted from voting pnm to vote for the pp. well those people are in the minority. it was still an obviously tight win. those are called swing voters. pnm only lost 14000 votes (from wiki). without a coalition of parties, guess what, it was win for them again.

so rfari, your solution is to change d political model. a reprogramming maybe? how tuh do that if there isn't balance, not even feigned. yuh would raise d bridge or lower d water level?

pnm is such an important force in trinidad that in order to effect that same change everyone wants, pnm has to take some responsibility and change first dammit.

Some homework to do. Pull a map of the strongholds and the voter turn outs for these constituencies over the last 4 elections. Lewwe start to deal wid facts

u does give out m-fill in politrix?

[WetR]

“I want to tell you that one-man-one-vote in the PNM has nothing to do with democracy, that one-man-one-vote is to get rid of one man— that is, to get rid of Rowley in the next election,” Moonilal said.

just forgetting who made the statement, any thoughts?

[Kinday]

My pick: Faris Al Rawi

[WetR]

is there a poll ched covering this topic!?

[j.o.e]

“I want to tell you that one-man-one-vote in the PNM has nothing to do with democracy, that one-man-one-vote is to get rid of one man— that is, to get rid of Rowley in the next election,” Moonilal said.

just forgetting who made the statement, any thoughts?

Where was this statement made, at one of those Monday meetings? For a sitting Gov't they real talking about the opposition's internal affairs.
One man one vote is good in theory as it allows the part members to actually choose their leader. Rather than the leader chosen by a select few delegates. In terms of if it will result in Rowley voted out, I dunno. Will depend on the internal popularity of the guy.

[WetR]

theres some other decent candidates.

i eh blame the current govt for watching and talkin.

wondering if anyone can shed some light on the actual popularity of the other candidates vs rowley. to be fair to rowley, he eh even contest d last election, but get stick with "d other guy's" team in opposition.

[Dizzy28]

theres some other decent candidates.

i eh blame the current govt for watching and talkin.

wondering if anyone can shed some light on the actual popularity of the other candidates vs rowley. to be fair to rowley, he eh even contest d last election, but get stick with "d other guy's" team in opposition.

What elections you speak off?

[WetR]

theres some other decent candidates.

i eh blame the current govt for watching and talkin.

wondering if anyone can shed some light on the actual popularity of the other candidates vs rowley. to be fair to rowley, he eh even contest d last election, but get stick with "d other guy's" team in opposition.

What elections you speak off?

my bad: "last T+T GENERAL elections". i meant in last general elections he was not leader of PNM. who knows what kind of slate rowley might be able to name.

but is he the popular choice for PNM internal election?

[BRZ]

I've been listening to some of the PNM faithful. Seems a lot of them prefer Donna because...and I quote: "She's a 'Pistol' ". An apt description if ever there was one.

I prefer Penny though. She's smart and engenders a trust that neither Keith nor Donna can equal and it's sad that she's only up for vice-chairmanship.
If the PNM had a modicum of intelligence, they'd have made her political leader a long time ago. Then, instead of hoping to retake the Government by default, they'd actually have a chance of obtaining enough votes to do so legitimately.

Penny should have lead from the start. all the rest are morons and should be kicked out. You gonna trust guy smiley and rowley?

the PNM is party in the past and need change for todays voters, Voters are getting smarter now plus all the old Eric Williams PNM die hard have died off. The PNM is not attractive for the young and educated voter.

so IM RIGHT, ZR was a tribal Peenem, die hard to the core Peeneem, and he finally realized that what he believed in was Bullsh1t, now hes the LEader of the anti-peenem on the forum.

[De Dragon]

The PNM have their most deserved leader, who clearly represents the morals and ideals of the party.

[zoom rader]

I've been listening to some of the PNM faithful. Seems a lot of them prefer Donna because...and I quote: "She's a 'Pistol' ". An apt description if ever there was one.

I prefer Penny though. She's smart and engenders a trust that neither Keith nor Donna can equal and it's sad that she's only up for vice-chairmanship.
If the PNM had a modicum of intelligence, they'd have made her political leader a long time ago. Then, instead of hoping to retake the Government by default, they'd actually have a chance of obtaining enough votes to do so legitimately.

Penny should have lead from the start. all the rest are morons and should be kicked out. You gonna trust guy smiley and rowley?

the PNM is party in the past and need change for todays voters, Voters are getting smarter now plus all the old Eric Williams PNM die hard have died off. The PNM is not attractive for the young and educated voter.

so IM RIGHT, ZR was a tribal Peenem, die hard to the core Peeneem, and he finally realized that what he believed in was Bullsh1t, now hes the LEader of the anti-peenem on the forum.

Yeah you right lil boy, all the tuners on here know I a die hard PNMite