India trip question..re the govt's party

[Shango_13]

"kamla fall down by Gandhi statue" - A. J. Warner

[RBphoto]

News flash guys, some of the people who went on this trip were sponsored by their organization as this is a trade mission. If you can't get your head around the importance of sending a contingent to a trade mission for the benefit to a private company, keep your head in the sand.

Some of the entorage paid for themselves just because they want to be near to aunty Kamla/ support the party (show that they were there supporting *cough* *lick battam* *cough* in India). A few of the people who went paid for themselves just to be near to their relatives while on this trip to an exotic location (they were mostly dissapointed that even in the splendiferous glory of the tourist attractions, there was utter poverty everywhere).

Finally, Trade missions are also diplomation olive branches that foster international ties. It is expected of any government that their leader travel and discuss opportunities with outher heads. Nobody in America gets chessbun when Obama flies out, or sends diplomats to the ends of the earth... there is plenty else to attact this government about rather than gripe about them doing one of their required functions.

[Dizzy28]

CD,

Ah would not argue with you on the importance of trade missions in general or on some of Kamla's previous trips. The chess bun over Australia for example not understandable cuz thats a Commonwealth issue that if Manning was PM he would have gone. Just political Tabanca there.

However with regards to this mission and more specifically the tax payers funded portion, was the contingent size really necessary? Fine Kamla goes and she carries a contingent including the Trade Minister, Minister of STE etc. However certain questions arise. Why carry the Minister of Public Utilities, India is not the model of efficiency when it comes to provision of utilities.
She carried two local artistes versed in Indian music.....but does one carry sand to the sea?

And well the pundit going - As far I was aware State Boards are supposed to be Governance and not operations so why send a board member (and not even the Chairman) even when the Minister of Transport already there. Transparency becomes an issue when that board member is the PM's personal pundit.

In a small island state with an economy in decline for the past 3 years our leaders should set better examples when it comes to the expenditure of the public funds. I wouldn't say don't go...just be prudent (or appear to be) with the expenses.

[RBphoto]

^^^^ So what about Brian Lara and Ganga? Should they have been left back too? Of all the people who went, Brian Lara gave more publicity to this than anyone else. Some of the women who got photographed with him, got front page spread on many local papers and got hounded by the press because they wanted to know if they were his new woman (they don't understand professional and platonic relationships there apparently). There was a cultural exchange, so that would explain the musicians and some of them actually paid for the trip out of their own pocket like I said.

So the minister of public utilities cannot meet with manufacturers who want to export heavy machinery to Trinidad? This has not been our first trade/dipl mission, and it will not be the last (no matter who is in power). Like I said, there are many reasons to attack the PP govt that I agree with, and even I, a former avid supporter, am critical of them, but this is grasping at straws.

[Dizzy28]

^ Well you have your point of view, lots of other Trinis have their own point of view. Time to wait and see on the benefits.

Meanwhile after spending a sheitload of money in 2010 to participate in the Shanghai World Expo (Commitment of last Administration) I still await word on any tangible benefits to Trinidad and Tobago that came out of that.

[Habit7]

I'll be grateful for the investment from India but...

I feeling like if it is the same as receiving a billion dollar donation from Haiti.

India has one third of the world's poor and 25% of the population below the poverty line (400 million people). They need to invest in themselves more.

[RBphoto]

I'll be grateful for the investment from India but...

I feeling like if it is the same as receiving a billion dollar donation from Haiti.

India has one third of the world's poor and 25% of the population below the poverty line (400 million people). They need to invest in themselves more.

India has cultural and political issues that keep the poor poor, such as caste discrimination, land ownership issues, virtual slavery, and gender issues. There is also the issue of corruption. Their poor will remain poor for generations to come no matter how rich their manufacturing, technology sector makes their economy. Don't think that their investment abroad does not come with strings attached. Just as how the chineese "gave" us NAPA, it is essentially a make work for themselves project, where their local contractors can use thier local cheap labour abroad, being able to write off dilapidated equipment, imported as junk without duties AND sell it locally as just used for the job, to get access to the donated funds. All kinda things play with these deals.

[Habit7]

State to bear hefty price tag for India jaunt
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar’s two-week visit to India, scheduled for January 2 -14 is expected to cost the State approximately $10 million, according to informed sources, making it the single most expensive overseas trip by any Trinidad and Tobago head of Government.

The PM is heading a party of 60 persons comprising state officials and leaders of state-owned enterprises, who are expected to participate in bilateral discussions with the Government of India, not just on issues of trade and business, but also in the area of tertiary education.

She will also attend the Pravasi Bharatiya Divas (PBD) 2012 being held at Jaipur (Rajasthan) from January 7 to 9 as the Chief Guest. According to a press release from the Office of the Prime Minister, “Persad-Bissessar is the first female Head of Government in the Diaspora and the first dignitary from Trinidad & Tobago to be bestowed with this honour.”

TnT Mirror has, however, photographs which show then Minister in the Officer of the Prime Minister, Dr Lenny Saith, attending the same function and receiving the same awards in 2010 along with other notables from the Indian Diaspora. Former Prime Minister Basdeo Panday was a guest in 2005 and was also given the award.

And although the Government of India is bearing the cost of 11 members of the PM’s official party, the other 49 persons, comprising officials of State-owned companies and other government ministries are being paid for by the State through their respective organizations.

This India trip follows a visit to that country in January 2011, almost a year ago, by Tourism Minister Dr. Rupert Griffith who led a Tourism Promotion Mission to India to four cities including Ahmedabad, Mumbai, New Delhi and Bangalore. That trip cost the government $367,409 according to a statement laid in Parliament last April in response to a question from Diego Martin Central MP, Amery Browne. Total government expenditure on overseas travel had amounted to $10 million in the first nine months of the People’s Partnership administration.

The Tourism Ministry is yet to outline the benefits which have accrued from Griffith’s visit to India.

TnT Mirror has also learnt that head of the Public Service, and Permanent Secretary to the Prime Minister, Reynold Cooper will also be accompanying the Prime Minster and will be accompanied by his wife.

Questioned about this PS Copper confirmed that his wife will be going but said, “that would be paid for by me.”

He also disclosed that persons traveling first class will have to fork out $170,000 for a ticket, while those going on a business ticket, will pay $110,000 and economy class will be $42,000. State board chairmen, who compromise the majority of delegates, along with permanent secretaries and ministers all travel first class by government policy.

Cooper explained that only 13 persons will be going from the Office of the Prime Minister and that the Indian Government will be funding the expenses for 11 of them. This includes the husband of the Prime Minister, Dr. Gregory Bissessar.

“Although the PM’s spouse is not part of the delegation, he always accompanies her,” Cooper explained.
He confirmed that all those other Ministries, and Departments, such as the “Ministries of Trade, Energy, Public Utilities, Transport, Science and Technology will also be attending but they are funding their own participants.”

Former Prime Minister Basdeo Panday, who also travelled to India during his term in office, was critical of the trip.

“First of all I think that expenditure should always be related to one’s income, and as far as I am told the country has no money. In those circumstances, I believe the government should be more circumspect in spending taxpayers’ money.”

He said he was told that the cost of the trip was close to $100 million, and described it as an “exercise in extravagance.” He questioned the success of the tourism trip undertaken by Griffith, adding that it is only the wealthy who can travel from India to Trinidad.

As to trade development, the former PM said, “If there are any trade benefits we have a High Commissioner over there to represent this country.” Unlike Persad-Bissessar’s team, Panday’s was mainly accompanied by members of the private sector.

Along for the ride…
Among those included on the PM’s trip to India, according to media reports are representatives from the University of the West Indies (UWI); University of Trinidad and Tobago (UTT); National Institute of Higher Education, Research, Science and Technology (NIHERST); Youth Training and Employment Partnership Programme (YTEPP); and the Ministry of Science, Technology and Tertiary Education.

UWI Principal Prof Clement Sankat is expected to be accompanied by his wife where he is slated to sign a number of memoranda of understanding (MOU) with various institutions there, including the Punjab Agricultural College, Punjab Technical University, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Energy and Resource Institute, National University of Education Planning and Administration (NUEPA), Shri Amit Khare International Co-operation cell, All Institute of Medical Sciences, Indira Gandhi National Open University, All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Indian Council of Agricultural Research, Delhi University, Film and Television Institute of India and the National Law University.

UTT chairman Curtis Manchoon is also expected to be accompanied by his wife and it is anticipated that he is to sign a MOU with the Pandit Deendayal Petroleum University (PDPU), as well as to meet with the Enterprise Development Institute to discuss the training of Trinidad and Tobago nationals in enterprise development skills, as well as meetings with the Indian Institute of Management and Indian Institute of Technology.

http://www.tntmirror.com/2012/01/01/10-million-trip

[RBphoto]

$100,000,000.00

IBWTN

[RASC]

When next are general elections again?

[MG Man]

not soon enough

[Dizzy28]

But if not PP who though?? PNM

[RASC]

But if not PP who though?? PNM

Post Manning... Yup

I predict a close, and hard fought victory, next elections for the PNM.

[Habit7]

But if not PP who though?? PNM

Well look at Jamaica, under 19 years of PNP rule the people wanted change and someone to deal with crime. After a myriad of promises they elected the JLP who although there was a small dip in crime, the economy shrunk, unemployment increase and the PM reluctantly extradited the biggest crime don. Next election the people said PNP you are not the best but we feel more settled with you.

[MG Man]

But if not PP who though?? PNM

At this point, nothing stinks more than the high hiprocisy of this PM we have
Now everyone take out your list of things you voted the PNM out of office for, and start making note of how many the current regime is guilty of, or haven't addressed in the manner they said they would..........I feel sorry for the masses of PNM loyalists who went against, in the hope of change...that has to be the worst betrayal in the modern history of this country
Ask yourself how many loyalist est indians would do the same and vote for the PNM....NEVER gonna happen
Such a betrayal really stinks, and imo overshadows much of what the PNM is / was allegedly guilty of
Kamla and her band of merry men have driven a knife into the hearts of thousands of hopeful citizens who took a chance and believed that there was truly a hope of a new beginning, and is now gleefully twisting that knife...sad that she is now so apparently blinded by her own bullsheit...........maybe Patos wasn't the only delusional leader basking in his own perceived magnificence

[Dizzy28]

Trinidadians still vote predominantly along ethnic lines..doh think the Jamaican comparison fair. No matter the performance/non performance of either party their faithful core remains.

[MG Man]

Trinidadians still vote predominantly along ethnic lines..doh think the Jamaican comparison fair. No matter the performance/non performance of either party their faithful core remains.

you really think that?
really?
was that the case when Robbie won?
When PP won?
oh please.........what shyt u sayin?

[RASC]

PP...got ALOT of disenchanted PNM voters. ALOT...
They also picked the majority of casual, and fence sitters.

The PP got the country to vote regardless of race...and the PNM got whopped as a result. They deserved it and Manning HAD TO GO!

[Habit7]

According to the last election ppl didnt vote along ethnic lines. The PP was borne by the votes of historical PNM voters for purpose of removing Manning and the hope of something new.
The question is could historical UNC voters be honest with themselves and vote for the PNM next elections.

[Dizzy28]

Trinidadians still vote predominantly along ethnic lines..doh think the Jamaican comparison fair. No matter the performance/non performance of either party their faithful core remains.

you really think that?
really?
was that the case when Robbie won?
When PP won?
oh please.........what shyt u sayin?

Robbie and the PP are both cases of coalitions. The NAR was an agglomeration of parties including the ULF (Panday), ONR, Tapia House and DAC. ULF bought the ethnic vote. You really feel NAR would have gotten 33 seats if ULF had fought separately?

PP is the same thing. An alliance of different parties with the UNC (new ULF) bringing their core.

The prevailing social and economic conditions of the day allowed the coalition to win the election.

[MG Man]

PP...got ALOT of disenchanted PNM voters. ALOT...
They also picked the majority of casual, and fence sitters.

The PP got the country to vote regardless of race...and the PNM got whopped as a result. They deserved it and Manning HAD TO GO!

the east indian fanatics will never admit to this because if the scenario was flipped, they would not vote PNM, and therein lies a HUGE problem with things right now...the EI crowd will happily accept the assness that is going on now, and even beat chess and bray WTN
Afro-trinidadians are clearly not nearly as illiterate and racist as their EI equivalents claim

[DSM_05]

But if not PP who though?? PNM

At this point, nothing stinks more than the high hiprocisy of this PM we have
Now everyone take out your list of things you voted the PNM out of office for, and start making note of how many the current regime is guilty of, or haven't addressed in the manner they said they would..........I feel sorry for the masses of PNM loyalists who went against, in the hope of change...that has to be the worst betrayal in the modern history of this country
Ask yourself how many loyalist est indians would do the same and vote for the PNM....NEVER gonna happen
Such a betrayal really stinks, and imo overshadows much of what the PNM is / was allegedly guilty of
Kamla and her band of merry men have driven a knife into the hearts of thousands of hopeful citizens who took a chance and believed that there was truly a hope of a new beginning, and is now gleefully twisting that knife...sad that she is now so apparently blinded by her own bullsheit...........maybe Patos wasn't the only delusional leader basking in his own perceived magnificence

I don't normally see MG posting in political threads...mainly ones about God and/or atheism

Anyway, yuh hit the nail on the head. Well said - it's just more of the same "bai ah go tek all d morney ah cud get" mentality by the present administration.

Just that Aunty does it with a rather calm and appeasing demeanour. Scary...if you think about it.

Afro-trinidadians are clearly not nearly as illiterate and racist as their EI equivalents claim

but MG, ent you is ah EI?

YourTimeNow?

[MG Man]

Dizzy you for real?
You saying the PP is a coalition of racist indians and racist negroes who all voted along racial lines and then joined forces?
WTF man

[Dizzy28]

No. Just saying its a coalition led by a party predominantly Indian based that happened to garner cross ethnic support and form a coalition due to
1. A perceived strong female leader (she defeated the great Bas)
2. Weaknesses and widespread allegations against the governing party at the time

[RASC]

PP...got ALOT of disenchanted PNM voters. ALOT...
They also picked the majority of casual, and fence sitters.

The PP got the country to vote regardless of race...and the PNM got whopped as a result. They deserved it and Manning HAD TO GO!

the east indian fanatics will never admit to this because if the scenario was flipped, they would not vote PNM, and therein lies a HUGE problem with things right now...the EI crowd will happily accept the assness that is going on now, and even beat chess and bray WTN
Afro-trinidadians are clearly not nearly as illiterate and racist as their EI equivalents claim

Well I've said so before and almost got handed a ban for it.
I feel more tension when working with Indians than I do with Africans.
Probably because I'm mixed, but the Trinis of Indian descent felt EXTREMELY comfortable around me talking race issues. And geez an ages did they talk about it.

"Red man lemme tell you something eh...yuh see them..."
And I sit down there like ....yo I'm technically black yuh kno buddy ... but I listening and nodding and it's just petty nonsense over and over.

Almost 10:1 as compared to Trinis of African Descent workers. Just my casual observations. As if a constant chip existed on their shoulders.
I can only assume things have gotten slightly better now through the coalition party

[Habit7]

The same crowd that cried murder for a 2 million flag to adorn the largest arena in the country, whistling dixie as ministers rolling around town in Porsche Cayenne's.

Despite some may say they got theirs for cheap, I wonder what is the maintenance costs on that versus a Toyota Prado or Nissan Pathfinder.

[MG Man]

Trinidadians still vote predominantly along ethnic lines..doh think the Jamaican comparison fair. No matter the performance/non performance of either party their faithful core remains.

if that is true, then why you say

No. Just saying its a coalition led by a party predominantly Indian based that happened to garner cross ethnic support and form a coalition due to
1. A perceived strong female leader (she defeated the great Bas)
2. Weaknesses and widespread allegations against the governing party at the time

so did the po black people who voted for this gubment vote on race or no?

[Dizzy28]

The same crowd that cried murder for a 2 million flag to adorn the largest arena in the country, whistling dixie as ministers rolling around town in Porsche Cayenne

Despite some may say they got theirs for cheap, I wonder what is the maintenance costs on that versus a Toyota Prado or Nissan Pathfinder.

If the Ministers paid for it by themselves what the problem though. They well paid and receive significant tax and MVT benefits which all Ministers use.

[Dizzy28]

Trinidadians still vote predominantly along ethnic lines..doh think the Jamaican comparison fair. No matter the performance/non performance of either party their faithful core remains.

if that is true, then why you say

No. Just saying its a coalition led by a party predominantly Indian based that happened to garner cross ethnic support and form a coalition due to
1. A perceived strong female leader (she defeated the great Bas)
2. Weaknesses and widespread allegations against the governing party at the time

so did the po black people who voted for this gubment vote on race or no?

No they voted for change. They thought Kamla could make a difference.

[RASC]

Dizzy...Stop...
Yuh contradicting and messing your self up all at the same time.
Just...Stop!