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toyo682 wrote: I now understand why you could not explain what the other 16 verse I showed you meant or fit in.
It isn't that I couldn't... it's just that I didn't. Forgive me, but I didn't even bother to see what the quotes referred to... I trust that you make your point properly with the language that you use - if you misquote, then 'more fool me', I guess. :lol:
There are some that have latched on to the similarities in all religions to show that we are all on the some journey to the same God but different paths.
You should know better than most the difference between the formation of religious belief/dogma and ecumenical diplomacy. (If you are correct and there are folks who combine the two, well, they would have a steep hill of pebbles to climb - but again, that's their choice.) As I explained earlier, I keep my private beliefs private. Only in a private discussion, will I voice them. I will always attempt a diplomatic approach on a public forum due to the audience make-up (if someone becomes a nuisance, then I take the gloves off) but I see no point in pushing religion down someone's throat.
"A man convinced against his will
is of the same opinion still"
However there are differences that separate which must be considered as well.
Of course... but not here. What is the point of communication if not to draw people together? Then why use this medium to define the things that separate us? I will always defend your right to voice your opinion, but that doesn't mean I will agree with it.
Cheers
ABA Trading LTD wrote:no sex in heaven?
how the hell that is heaven then?
Someone screwed up bigtime when they were planning this heaven/hell bs
d spike wrote:we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.
We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.
The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".
If sex wasn't pleasurable, humanity would have died out after the first ten babysitting horror stories.
toyo682 wrote:megadoc1, Although Allah does mean god, Allah and the God the Bible are two different people
d spike wrote:Do you really think that God, if he exists, bothers about what name you call him, if he loves you? I thought the whole point of monotheism is that there is only one Boss? A name only makes sense to us creatures, as it differentiates one from another. (When Moses asked his name, God put him in his place: "I am who is" - take dat in yuh waist, yuh too dam farse an outta place...)
d spike
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:31 am Post subject:
toyo682 wrote:
megadoc1, Although Allah does mean god, Allah and the God the Bible are two different people
Wait a minute. I thought you were a monotheist. Correct me if I am wrong, but this seems to be a simple mathematical matter. Either you believe in ONE god, or you don't. Which one is it?
d spike wrote:
Do you really think that God, if he exists, bothers about what name you call him, if he loves you? I thought the whole point of monotheism is that there is only one Boss? A name only makes sense to us creatures, as it differentiates one from another. (When Moses asked his name, God put him in his place: "I am who is" - take dat in yuh waist, yuh too dam farse an outta place...)
Once YOU know who you are referring to when you direct YOUR thoughts/prayers to him, what does it matter what language, words, names you use? This human stuff is only of concern when you are dealing with other humans.
[/b]toyo682 wrote:^^^^
did all religions on the same day, time or era.
Did all religions what??
Of course not. according to what you have stated and many others, we all serve one god, and by which name we call him does not matter.
Though all religions have different standards we are all aspiring to the same heaven.
How are these religions' standards different?
Well you see from this I draw my conclusion that there is a god who is capricious and keeps changing.(figuratively not literally)>
No, I don't... and the statements that followed don't explain much. Being more specific would help your position.
You see the first time he revealed himself may have he did it as the Muslim god setting standards for them to follow as they follow him as Allah, then the next time he appear he appeared as the god of Christianity, etc etc. Every time he appears he sets another standard and give different rules and a different way.
That is not the case. You seem to be confusing the original message that a religion is based on, and the way that the messengers deliver this message over time - not a mistake that someone with a background in theology would make. I dare say you surprise me.
So how is this fair that we all serving the same god, going to the same place, but some are giving an easier way while others have to work harder.
Again, a false impression acquired by improper observation.
Again how is this god fair and loving, does he then love one more than the other?
Obviously, this cannot be so. Therefore, reason says it isn't.
This is a question you refuse to address.
Because it doesn't exist in reality. Where is this coming from? A man of your background should know better. I would strongly advise you to revise your notes!
but think about it.....seems like he does not really want us to know who he is, or how to get to heaven.
After dropping so many hints and leaving so many messages? Please.
one little pleasure GOD give to man on earth yet manABA Trading LTD wrote:no sex in heaven?
how the hell that is heaven then?
Someone screwed up bigtime when they were planning this heaven/hell bs
megadoc1 wrote:one little pleasure GOD give to man on earth yet manABA Trading LTD wrote:no sex in heaven?
how the hell that is heaven then?
Someone screwed up bigtime when they were planning this heaven/hell bs
loving that more than GOD,he created the earth and the things within yet man love the earth and the things within more than him.
ask yourself this
if GOD can give us such pleasures here on earth
how much more can he give us in heaven ?
toyo682 wrote:sorry sorry,was trying to ask if all religions we started on the same day. d spike you talk a lot about reason but you fail to exercise it. The reason you can't see what I am talking about is that you are not worried about the difference only what is similar and draws us together.
No lad. The reason I can't see what you were talking about is because you don't use the language properly. I would like to believe that you are typing too quickly to bother about your mistakes, but please remember it has to be read to be understood. That initial sentence made no sense whatsoever - reason can only help if comprehension is possible.
I think I have explained enough as to why I am not going to focus on differences HERE IN THIS FORUM.
you think you understand where I am coming from because I am like all the other fanatical Christian out there right, wrong.
I am trying to understand where you are coming from by reading what you write. I don't know you, so I can't tell where you are coming from. Assist my endeavour by being clear and concise. You did not strike me to be fanatical - I hope I am not wrong.
Like you , you never look at most of the stuff I have posted to support what I am saying.
Something tells me that you did not read this sentence before you hit the 'submit' button. As far as your quotes are concerned, like I said before, I trust you will understand what you are saying - and know about the scripture you refer to - and not just stuff your posts with random scriptural references... am I wrong here? Is my trust misplaced? Is it that you are not sure of what you write about?
This shows that you are not only prideful but also ignorant was well. You really think you know it all do you?
Please read what I write, lad. I am very clear in what I write. I do not take part in public debates or discussions unless I know exactly what I am talking about. You won't see me posting in threads about helicopters, ECUs, fuel injection, trance music, dub musicians, or racing on the "cross". I don't write if I'm not sure. Forgive me for knowing what I'm talking about. I know my limits. I certainly don't know it all. If you really have studied theology, then you would know that nothing I have said so far is wrong...
If you are so adamant that you will not share your views here
I do share my views... have I been posting the views of someone else all this time?
then do not get involve in this discussion or make any judgments, comment etc on those who post them here.
That may be your opinion, and you are free to state it - just as I am free to state my opinion, and I will continue to do so.
just sit back watch and enjoy the show. Quite frankly your comments serve to help no onevin123 wrote:d spike wrote:wow. Fellahs getting serious. I'm too tired to be serious, so I'll attempt some 'theo' tomorrow.
If tomorrow comes...
If the thread isn't locked by then...
why it go get lock?
post something nah, I tired to but I still post up, just doh go too much into it lol
Anyhow, take yuh time & give a good response. I always look forward to hear your thoughts on matters like this!
if am I believing wrong which you seem to be getting at, then show me why. saying I am wrong with no explanation does not help me.
I think what I have said before in explanation is succinct enough.
Christianity has many differences to other religions that are key to understanding our faith. Get familiar with all of Christianity not just the parts suitable to your belief or reason.
I am quite familiar with christianity, thank you very much. It is the religion I have taught for many moons.
megadoc1 wrote:d spike, you said you taught Christianity as a religion
Yes, and I still do.
would you expand more on that here
What do you mean by expand? Use a bigger font?
Tell you what I do? I think what was said was explanatory enough.
or am I being to fasss ?
For once, I actually agree with you.
thanks
you're welcome.
megadoc1 wrote:free will is like thiszcarz wrote:^No WHAT in heaven??
lol.. anyway, you say we have free will.. but God's mind should be all knowing right? Then that should mean, before you are born, he would know if you were going to heaven or hell making your 'free will' only a perception. Do you agree?
there are two kingdoms that want to affect your life
1 the kingdom of heaven (all men are born disconnected from this one)
2 the kingdom of darkness
but they cannot affect your life unless you let them in
for example
you look at porn or do anything that is not of GOD,
you invite the kingdom of darkness in your life.
you seek the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and do the will of GOD,
you invite the kingdom of heaven in your life
zitanos wrote:d spike wrote:I still am not too sure what the OP wants to achieve by this thread. Any religion would have answers for his questions... so the core of these queries is whatever was said in that discussion he had...
Unless he was never brought up in a religion (which is possible, but unlikely) how come he has these questions all of a sudden? That must have been one heck of a conversation, boy...
Yes, most of these questions can be answered by an religion. The intent was to get more information (from each of the religions) as to what are the religion's views/answers for those questions.
Hopefully by learning more about how each religion view's we could try to gain a better level of understanding.
As for my religion, currently I see myself as agnostic, I was raised to Christian and Hindu parents, with Muslim Grandparents (Yes i know, moms converted to christianity...). Anyhow, I had the privilege when I was young to attend Church, Temple (on regular occasions) and Mosque now and then.
As for the conversation which lead to this. Was ole talking with some of my christian and muslim friends (can't rem how the talk ended up on religion).. and these were just of the few "i not sure nah" questions which we ended up with.
d spike wrote:When I first started browsing Tuner fairly recently, I used to read Bluefete's "God" thread in amazement (while not the most accurate word, that's the most polite word I can use to describe how I felt), but I never even wished to voice an opinion. This decision was based on my experiences regarding discussions amongst differing faiths. While it sounds like a good idea to compare differences, observe similarities, and generally learn of different ways of looking at the same thing, this never works for religion, unless the persons involved share a strong sense of trust, respect, wisdom and maturity - as well as a very good grasp of language.
Thus it is that whenever average people discuss religion (especially christianity) it soon turns into either a competition, an evangelistic affair, or a fight - or all three, in that order.
toyo682 wrote: d spike you talk a lot about reason but you fail to exercise it... This shows that you are not only prideful but also ignorant was well. You really think you know it all do you?
...do not get involve in this discussion or make any judgments, comment etc on those who post them here. just sit back watch and enjoy the show. Quite frankly your comments serve to help no one...
)d spike wrote:We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)
You were asked to do this by witnessing. It is unfortunate that folks think witnessing means talking and preaching - far from it. Witnessing means to live your life in such a way, that what you believe is seen in what you do. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your christians." This was exactly what he was referring to. It is because of this hypocritical attitude that I use a common "c" when I refer to these "christians". Remember this: 'What you are doing is speaking so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.'
d spike wrote:Don't make that mistake. Instead, say, "If I were like that and didn't change, I believe I would have a special place in hell." Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself.
d spike wrote:When one studies other cultures, their morals and religions, one sees several threads that run through all of them - like signposts, perhaps. The ten commandments were not "new" rules from humanity's point of view. The "golden rule" that Jesus taught, was preached long before in China, among other places. Of course, differing ways of dealing with wrong sprang up, but what was considered wrong (and right, of course) remained the same wherever you looked.
Take adultery, for example. The Hittites had a law that if you caught your wife in adultery, you either killed both wife and lover, or let them go. In Old China, the first time your wife was caught in adultery, the lover was flogged, the second time, your wife was flogged - the third time you were flogged. But all agreed that adultery was wrong.
Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.
d spike wrote:You know what I have found to be rather alarming? That there are people who will agree that each of us is unique... they will state that everyone is quite different... they will denounce organized religion for lumping humanity together... expound on the virtue of personal interpretation of scriptures... prate on about having Jesus as your personal saviour, and the importance of having a personal relationship with him...
...and then turn around and tell you that their perspective is THE right one... their interpretation of a book combined of many books, written by many different people from many different walks of life, spanning centuries, from differing cultures, different languages each with its own idioms, translated through different languages - sometimes by amateur translators who didn't fully understand the lingo - full of conflicting ideals and concepts, is THE proper interpretation...
yes you do have a choice becausezcarz wrote:megadoc1 wrote:free will is like thiszcarz wrote:^No WHAT in heaven??
lol.. anyway, you say we have free will.. but God's mind should be all knowing right? Then that should mean, before you are born, he would know if you were going to heaven or hell making your 'free will' only a perception. Do you agree?
there are two kingdoms that want to affect your life
1 the kingdom of heaven (all men are born disconnected from this one)
2 the kingdom of darkness
but they cannot affect your life unless you let them in
for example
you look at porn or do anything that is not of GOD,
you invite the kingdom of darkness in your life.
you seek the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and do the will of GOD,
you invite the kingdom of heaven in your life
I understand all that but do you think that while you think you have a choice of good over evil, you really don't because God knew before you were born if you were going to heaven or hell.
sparky wrote:the Holy Spirit is the ultimate teacher
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