The Religion Discussion

[MG Man]

can't pay for work you didn't approve
Why did god need to test abraham? God, being god and all, would have known the outcome anyway, so why put him and his son through all that trauma to prove a point? Seems pretty masochistic to me...........same with Job...........that little cruel bet was pointless....god would have known the outcome already.....why torment poor job just to prove a point?

Note that in the bible, God never claimed to be that awesome. Men did.
And then modern christians are claiming he's awesome ^2

dammit.........mediocre god ftl

[AdamB]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

Well it sounds like the ONE GOD you believe in is a different god from the ONE GOD that Muslims believe in.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?

Your god condones murder.
I'ma go ahead and go with his god

The choice is yours and you don't feel compelled / coerced to do so. PLEASE NOTE MG!

Is not Man a slave to his desires when he should be a slave to GOD?

[MG Man]

eeeeeeeeeeen.............
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on 400

[MG Man]

dammit.............still on 399

[AdamB]

Laa ilaaha

[AdamB]

Ill Allaah!

[AdamB]

Allahu akbar!

[Bizzare]

The 9th post after this one will do it

[Sky]

HE'S GONNA BLOW THE THREAD UP!!!

[Bizzare]

the countdown is orn!

[Bizzare]

ollour seeing dat plane coming towards d ched?

[Sky]

Duane will cleanup if we continue Bizzare.
Anyway...

The choice is yours and you don't feel compelled / coerced to do so. PLEASE NOTE MG!

Is not Man a slave to his desires when he should be a slave to GOD?

No man should be a slave, period.
In addition to that, man has the choice to ignore his desires and practice restraint.
They can't deny what Islam tells them to do, whether they like it or not.

[AdamB]

The key

[MG Man]

I give up

[Bizzare]

I give up

stay strong man.

[Bizzare]

Duane will cleanup if we continue Bizzare.
Anyway...

The choice is yours and you don't feel compelled / coerced to do so. PLEASE NOTE MG!

Is not Man a slave to his desires when he should be a slave to GOD?

No man should be a slave, period.
In addition to that, man has the choice to ignore his desires and practice restraint.
They can't deny what Islam tells them to do, whether they like it or not.

we are always gonna be slave to our own bodies. if we don't, we die.

[Bizzare]

Allow me to dedicate page 400 to Jesus.....

[DFC]

Adamb i am exposing you for who you are.

Talk about double standards,
This is the year 2012 dude, you cannot hide forever.

[jasonpremchand]

From the first page to page 400, has been an adventure.

[Kasey]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

Well it sounds like the ONE GOD you believe in is a different god from the ONE GOD that Muslims believe in.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?

What contradiction? Who is we? Yuh ha mice in yuh pocket oh wa?

[d spike]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry.

And what exactly is worship? Who invented the word? Why are you such a blinded twit?
God determining what is worship???? You are really lost when it comes to logic and sequence.
Man relates to his god in an apparently almost one-sided relationship, and you want to foist your individual religion's practices on others? Please, study the theology of your religion before you make a complete fool of yourself - if you haven't done so already. (And listening to some sweaty imam ranting about destroying Israel, or how women have it good under Sharia, doesn't count as Muslim theology.)

As far as polytheism and idolatry are concerned, you missed my point completely. Man is only capable of committing a sin if he is aware that it is wrong, and he is aware of doing something wrong.
Again, the opinion of one group of people cannot be used to judge all. You yourself should understand this concept - recall the "debate" on how God will judge those who are unaware of the "truth".

Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Very nice. Now start thinking.
Ignorance is based on "ignoring". Ignoring the truth when it is shown to you is wrong.
How do you know you are being shown the truth?
Simply put, it is proved to be the truth.
Have you proven anything?
No.
All you have done is attempt to prove that other religions are in error. This doesn't prove that Islam is "more right".

No one can be blamed for not believing ANY religious ranter if he does not provide any proof of what he says... (This old guy - and he's really, really old - made the whole world and wants you to accept him as big heap boss because he is, and he can zap you dead, but he doesn't, and he takes care of everyone, including all those dying of starvation and disease)
...and claiming that the proof lies in ancient writings, of which the only proof that they contain truth is the faith of those who support said writings... is not proof either.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

Ummm... that commandment is taken from the same book in which Moses was commanded by God to make a bronze serpent and lift it up to save the Israelites... Wait a minute, why are you quoting from "tampered" scripture? Whatever my answer could be, you can just ignore or nullify it by claiming the writings my answer is based on are in error.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point,

What absolute crap. Yet again, you talk of something you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about. "Focal point"? The golden calf was specifically referred to AS A GOD. Aaron said, "Here is your god." He never said, "Here is a representation."
I guess you will now spout nonsense about "tampered" scriptures at this point. Again, I don't see any point in debating Biblical scripture with you.

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references.

Why should I? Re-read what I just wrote if you cannot see why. Feel free to disagree with my opinion. Why don't you attempt to prove my views are not "mainstream" or orthodox Christianity? Simply because you cannot - apart from the sad fact that you have very little idea about what Christians believe (Your information comes from Muslim lecturers and heretical Christians! How misguided can one possibly be?)

I have always upheld that quoting biblical scripture to support my statements is wrong in a public forum. Those who demand proof are those who won't accept scripture from an alien religion as proof, as they don't accept the writings as scripture in the first place. Thank you for proving me right.

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Why don't you? What's the hold-up?

[Dizzy28]

In on pg 400.

[Dizzy28]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

Well it sounds like the ONE GOD you believe in is a different god from the ONE GOD that Muslims believe in.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?

Isn't it simple....Islam is wrong obviously.

[d spike]

This is a current discussion and just like Merlener I take what people post at FACE VALUE. What you post something on a particular topic and expect everyone else to understand what you are saying because the proper explanation you posted a hundred or two pages ago!

This from the same person who expects everyone to understand what a slave-trader who heard voices in the desert 1400 years ago, was talking about?
Your stupidity and laziness is not my fault.
It is this attitude which has helped cause this thread to hit 400 pages! Instead of understanding what is being discussed, you just dredge up issues that have been dealt with already.
Why the necessity to regurgitate spent matter? Is it just to glory in the sight of one's public written offerings? That is ego.

Why would a perfect being create life only for the sole purpose of worshipping himself? Is he that lonely? Or bored with the adulation of the angels? That stinks of Pride.

No. There has to be a better reason.

dspike what is the purpose of creation?? is it not to worship???

Universal worship concerns the Creator's plan for us, and is the main reason for our creation.

Now tell me that this is not a contradiction.

But I explained this ALREADY!!! Do you READ anything? The answer is in the very post you quoted!!!!

I was using the word in the same usage as those who propagate the thinking that we were created to bang and rattle items in accompaniment to loud verbalization.

Dspike,
Your claims to knowledge about GOD and the Creation is based on YOUR opinions, feelings, and intellect.

(Feelings? I never said that.) No, it isn't. It is based on much more than that. However, that aspect of my person is not for public consumption.
You banal attempts to force me to state the religion I follow, is pitiful. This is a discussion. Ideas are discussed, opinions are discussed. If you cannot deal with that, then shove off to the bashing-everybody-but-mohammedans thread, alrighty?

Any religious twit can (and should) recite yards of scripture to support his view. Shouldn't one's faith be deeper than that?

Those who know me can attest to my ability to rattle off scripture... but that doesn't prove anything. This is a public forum. Logic and decorum (I hope you know those words) demand that whatever base is used in an argument is accepted by all.
Using scripture is useless as not all hold it as "their" scripture.
Go eat some fish.

Amazingly no comment on the Muslim perspective of the PURPOSE OF CREATION?? I thought this was a Religion Discussion.

Indeed it is. It is also a free world. (I might point out to you the many posts that YOU ignore.) I, like you, am free to discuss what I want with WHOM I want.
In my opinion, you are NOT representative of a Muslim point of view. Discussing Islam with you is like your discussing Christianity with JWs - whatever you learn is going to be in error.

Also, you have made it VERY CLEAR that all you are concerned with is selling your book. Why should I pander to your wishes?

Anyway, your view probably opposes the Christian view because you said that:To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)

So why are Christians the foremost in trying to convert (drag people off their path)? The crusades all over the place now and all that they did in the past recorded in history.

Humans make mistakes. You are a perfect example.
We all attempt... and often fail. This is the human experience. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes.
My viewpoint is shared by many MATURE Christians. If you REALLY are interested, don't take my word for it, look it up. It isn't something that is hidden. The problem is that Fundamental Christians make plenty noise in public forums, and it is easy for outsiders to assume that they and their views are "mainstream".

[maj. tom]

It's all in your head because there is no other place it can be.
No experiments. No observations. No breaking any laws of physics. Just all stories that you chose to believe. And if any person claimed to witness such stories today they would be institutionalised.

Take for example that story of Abraham sacrificing his son because god told him so. Many men live today quite worthy of that god's blessing just like Abraham was. And if god tested any man with that same egotist experiment... well we know what going to happen. Murder. His son is not going to be replaced with a goat! And we know this! The man claims god told him to do it. Man is examined and sent to a psychiatric hospital under arrest.

And we know all this. You may have even laughed while u read that because that is our moral and justice system in this age and that is how normal people can think in a sane manner. So then... why would you believe that story? Isn't that is what you call a double standard and/or crazy/stupid?

[RBphoto]

jasonpremchand, where you comeout from bhai?


DFC, I not seeing anything, PM me that info nah.

[shane1]

Well humans need something to believe in so i guess that is alot of what the craze is about.... self belief is all that is needed.

[AdamB]

Once and over and over again Mr Dspike expresses his "opinion"!

Who says that fundamental christians aren't mainstream? Only you!

I guess Jesus and his hawariyoon (disciples) were also the most fundamental. So according to you, they were the most misguided?

If it were meant to be the way that you described, that people walk their path and others don't interfere, then there would be NO CHRISTIANS TODAY!!! Who were the first christians, not Jews and samaritans? So if the message of Jesus was to remain in their path, just enjoy life and be the best person they could be, then certainly there would be no christians today.

You are wrong and the "christians" on this thread are COWARDS who fear your BITE if they say otherwise. You follow your vain desires and innovate WITHOUT EVIDENCE, and then say it is from GOD!! Please...

Sir, you are the King of Insults, is that from Jesus' example as well? I won't stoop to your level. You will get reap the reward of what you do. The evidence will be established and written in a book (of deeds) and no excuse will be accepted....

[MG Man]

hunduism predates all, with physical evidence to back it up
you and dspike both fail :p

[nismotrinidappa]

1 as far as i understand.... you are supposed to sacrifice the fruit of your labour and desire of your heart... back in the days in the times of bartering your assets were your bull goats calf sheep corn food etc and these were given up... nowadays your asset is money hence offerings are given up.. be real everybody wants money now. whether you want a porsche ferrari boat mclaren f1 mansion, it all comes through money.. so sacrifice nowadays are different and those people who want to slaughter bulls and chicken and goats are a bit misguided.. thats my opinion eh. i do no believe god wants blood sacrifices any more... jesus came and shed his blood for us already... why kill a cow or bull or chicken now? isnt that spinning top in mud and pointless?

2 i think people are missing the point of free will...man is made in god image and likeness.. we were made to have dominion over the earth and rule .. man has power from god... and for your lifetime here you have dozens sometimes hundreds of chances to do good , do right.. and finally be judged according to your actions...so every second every hour your life and destiny and change. someone can be living the wrong life and read this post and give their life and be saved this very minute..even mg man for example.. so your life is like a book with hundreds of endings.. some good some bad..you choose how to live it..

3 i have a religious question and hope i can get some answers and opinions... i am not biased but trying to be open minded.. i grew up in roman catholic religion all my life and have recently had many revelations personally about religion. i have therefore stepped out of the catholic religion in order to get closer to jesus as there are things that i have questioned and wondered about..anyway let me continue with the questions..

how can a religion be called " good " or "right" or the one eg baptist or obeah or hindu, if one can go to the reliogious leader to kill somebody, make them sick, their daughter go mad etc using " spirits" " kali puja blood sacrifice" to get them to marry you, die so you can get the land, or make them widow widower to marry them ......

how can a " good" religion do " bad"?
i want some ideas and answers please. i not looking for oh muslim do they jihad,,or oh christians and roman catholic with crusade in dark ages.. serious profound answers.. if you can actually justify that..

i cant see somebody jumping up praying kneeling down in their temple mandir mosque church whatever.. and afterwards giving their leader money gifts whatever to do their neighbour spiritual wickedness and want to tell me that their " religion" is the way and right and "good" and come serve allah or krishna or mojo jojo or whoever..