The Religion Discussion

[MG Man]

I do not mock and make fun of others' beliefs, I state the facts from Islam. The opposing views are out there and it is up to the individuals to decide their path (like dspike said) and choose. Not every chosen path is acceptable to GOD, this is what ISLAM says, not AdamB.

and that's where you have gone wrong
to tell me my beliefs are wrong and that I will go to hell for them is not only mocking my belief, but is also insulting to me
you expect us to respect your religion yet clearly you respect nobody else's belief

[d spike]

@dspike,
The world still revolves around you I see.

How did you come to this supposition? Where does this remark come from?
This sounds more like spurned, insecure jealousy, a mark of an immature mind.

Please provide your evidence that your "not literal meaning" of scripture / philosophy is taken from the Bible / prophets or whatever evidence that this way is the way that GOD wants.

It isn't my fault you are devoid of original thought. Do you have slaves? How many wives do you have? Will you marry a little girl? How many infidels and apostates have you killed? If you cannot understand what I am saying, then you need to get out of this discussion and go back to school.

Otherwise, you are just stating YOUR OPINION, no matter how eloquent your written speech or critical of another person's way that differs from yours.

Dear child, this is a discussion. You are expected to state your opinion. You still haven't figured that one out yet? Is that why your posts tend to be "copy-n'-paste" material rather than explanations of your own?

Didn't your grandfather say, "A hateful, spiteful, insecure, paranoid person who becomes religious, is most likely going to be a hateful, spiteful, insecure, paranoid, religious person." What make you think that this doesn't apply to you also?

...ummmm, because it doesn't? As I have said over and over, the only problem I have, is with fanatics who ram their religion down the throats of others, whether such treatment is desired or not... How does that make me hateful, spiteful, insecure, paranoid, or even religious? Does any one here agree with you on this? (Apart from York and Yamalala, of course)

When you point a finger at someone, three fingers are pointing back to you.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF YOUR DEEP LOGIC OR CRITICAL THINKING??? You really can't get anything better than this primary school argument? Good grief.
This remark is meant to make someone mindful of being a hypocrite. In what way am I being a hypocrite? Something tells me that this is but one of many remarks you parrot off without knowing what it means - which, of course, explains many of your posts.

You also said, "We all need to choose a path in life. It is easy to think that if a particular path is right for you, then it is right for everyone else." I have chosen my path, so respect it.

I do respect the path you have chosen - Where have I disrespected that? What I do not respect is the disrespectful way you approach others who have chosen a path other than yours.

The prophets all thought that their path was right for them AND right for everyone else, their followers to whom they were sent.

So...? And...? How does that justify your crass manners in dealing with non-Muslims? You FAIL to realize that I have no problem with Islam - my problem is your inability to interact with others at a more mature and diplomatic level. How could you be trying to promote a religion by being abrasive, biased and condescending? You have a lot to learn.

[MG Man]

dspike, re your last point:
there is no other way to promote islam
it trounces on everything else
it has no room for tolerance
re your comment on adamb copy-pasting, again, his religion does not require you to think for yourself, but rather to regurgitate from a single source
you cannot expect tolerance from a religion that is intolerant
you cannot expect to share and compare differing ideas when the religion itself commands its followers to stamp out all that is different to it
You cannot expect its follower to be open to discussion when its basic approach is to convince you one way or the other to submit...

[d spike]

Dspike time and time again I've repeatedly said, don't confuse the crusaders and christianity they are not the SAME thing.

How nice... and time and again I have asked people to READ my posts, not glance at words used and assume what I mean.
My post was about what others think/assume... not what I think. There are old arguments that exist - whether they have been disproved or not, doesn't affect their mileage.
Some examples are:
Muhammad used to discuss religious ideas with a Christian priest, and this helped guide him in the formation of his new religion. This has been largely disproved, but many Christian anti-Islamics still drag it up.
History has shown that only a handful of Popes were philandering nastinesses, but anti-Catholics act like most of the head holy-rollers were.
Hindu scholars have clearly explained that they believe in one God, one divine essence, of which people can choose which perception or expression of that essence they can focus their worship. The murtis are just expressions to assist that focus. Yet, Hindus are still considered idol worshipers and true polytheists.

I've been to many churches Sda,Anglican,catholic,baptist some what Muslim etc what have you.
...That statement in itself is a lack of understanding to the highest degree, it's rather an insult to ones intelligence.

somewhat Muslim??? "what have you", where other religions are concerned...why wasn't the "etc" good enough? With regards to this, I dare say I'll quote you:

That statement in itself is a lack of understanding to the highest degree, it's rather an insult to ones intelligence.

[d spike]

dspike, re your last point:
there is no other way to promote islam
it trounces on everything else
it has no room for tolerance
re your comment on adamb copy-pasting, again, his religion does not require you to think for yourself, but rather to regurgitate from a single source
you cannot expect tolerance from a religion that is intolerant
you cannot expect to share and compare differing ideas when the religion itself commands its followers to stamp out all that is different to it
You cannot expect its follower to be open to discussion when its basic approach is to convince you one way or the other to submit...

MG, people are the same everywhere. Just as you have trusting sheep, you have raving fanatics.
Religion is how man relates to that which he considers beyond the ordinary, the divine.
One of the core beliefs of most religions is that there is an afterlife, and one can receive unparalleled rewards there.
The desire to share one's religious beliefs can be due to something that lies between two extremes:
a love for one's fellow man that drives a genuine want to share an idea that will better life, and will result in a rewarding afterlife;
a feeling of superiority that drives a condescending attempt to show why one is better than others.
While many missionaries claim the former, the latter can be seen to rear its head often, in their speech and in their actions.
To understand why the latter exists, one has to realize that "heaven" is very real to these people, as is the need to work towards this goal. The latter drive is caused by Laziness and Pride. Charitable works are, after all, WORK, and involve working with people one has an aversion to (thanks to one's sense of superiority) as well as being created out of a sense of caring for others (which doesn't exist, thanks to the same thing)... so perhaps one can instead scale the gates of Paradise by the amount of souls that you waved pamphlets at (after all, it isn't YOUR fault if they stubbornly refuse to help themselves to the fantastic opportunity you dangled in front of them).

So here we have a fanatic, who is far more interested in looking for an easy way out rather than being truly interested in others... using his religion for selfish ends rather than what it was designed for! Whatever you think of his religion, it is unfair to judge it by looking at him. He is using it to justify his insecurity and his sense of superiority (the latter actually being formed out of improperly dealing with the former) instead of allowing it to make him a better person.
It isn't the fault of the religion if the majority of its proponents are similar in nature.

In Muhammad's time, his enemies were trying to kill him and his ideas, not sue his pants off. So he would have been rather violent in his recommendations and reactions...
If you read the bible, then you might think that those who hold the Old Testament in high esteem might be really dangerous to have around...

Perhaps I might seem naive to you, but I am sure that the core beliefs of Islam are what should be focused on by its followers, rather than them getting hung up on the infidel and apostate slaughtering bits.

Religion only works when one applies its guidelines to ONESELF... the problems arise when one tries to force others to accept them.

[Red Fraction]

Dspike. I said some what muslim because; while I was there I couldnt well my mind clearly couldn't grasp the concept of, if the unbeliever doesn't believe stamp slay them where ever you find them etc. I could not get why I must stay away from another person because they dont see what I see. And I find its teachings rather contradictory to each other.

Anything else dspike??

[d spike]

Dspike. I said some what muslim because; while I was there I couldnt well my mind clearly couldn't grasp the concept of, if the unbeliever doesn't believe stamp slay them where ever you find them etc. I could not get why I must stay away from another person because they dont see what I see. And I find its teachings rather contradictory to each other.

Anything else dspike??

Rather than answering my query, you just raise more questions... such as, do you read what you write?
When you get to well your mind (whatever that might be), I suppose you will be able to express yourself better.

Good luck with the, umm, welling.

[nismotrinidappa]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

[Gladiator]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

When you die and go to heaven, don't you go and live with Jesus in the clouds.... plenty time to get to knowing him then!

[DFC]

What about Heaven?

I would like Adamb to tell me what he expects in heaven.

[Bizzare]

7 virgins

[MG Man]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

tell that to the suffering kids in africa who won't live to see their third birthday..........then console their suffering parents
the most twisted / fcuked up song I ever heard was 'Jesus loves the little children'

[Dizzy28]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

tell that to the suffering kids in africa who won't live to see their third birthday..........then console their suffering parents
the most twisted / fcuked up song I ever heard was 'Jesus loves the little children'

Harsh.

[DFC]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

tell that to the suffering kids in africa who won't live to see their third birthday..........then console their suffering parents
the most twisted / fcuked up song I ever heard was 'Jesus loves the little children'

yep...

[TonyM]

I dont agree with the Christian skew in this video, but the demographic numbers may be true

[MG Man]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

tell that to the suffering kids in africa who won't live to see their third birthday..........then console their suffering parents
the most twisted / fcuked up song I ever heard was 'Jesus loves the little children'

Harsh.

how is that harsh????????????????

[Dizzy28]

Well the harshness was all around actually. The irony that you pointed out wrt to a song when clearly more children than not are suffering in the world from poverty, hunger/malnutrition, forced marriages, child labour, rape etc..

Come to think of it is more truth than harshness.

[DFC]

[nareshseep]

[nismotrinidappa]

to everyone in the thread.. Jesus loves you and wants you to make sure and know him before dying...

tell that to the suffering kids in africa who won't live to see their third birthday..........then console their suffering parents
the most twisted / fcuked up song I ever heard was 'Jesus loves the little children'

mg man you always ask the question..hopefully this answer can clear your mind. god created the earth and then created adam then eve. he gave them charge over it.through satan and deceit and trickery, they sinned and gave up their birthright and now satan has control over the earth. so dont blame god for the starving children mg. if you so concerned donate money to a charity for them. dont be hating over god. people are born with original sin and the only way to heaven is through jesus christ and repentance. hell was created for satan not humans, but due to man's wickedness he is heading there.

so get to know jesus now.. not religion... but a close relationship with jesus

[Dizzy28]

^ If Satan has control over the Earth is he also responsible for the good that takes place here as well?

[nismotrinidappa]

there are people who do good and people who do bad.. obviously he is trying to pull down the good to join the bad.. you ever notice when you are trying to make a change for the better how hard and difficult it is? you can make a difference by doing the right thing.. even in the face of wrongdoing. because everybody taking bribe you gonna take bribe too? its not wise to gain the world and lose your soul.

[maj. tom]

^ you have any evidence that this satan fella have nothing better to do than all those things? I feel you just blaming the man for allyuh sheit and he relaxing cool somewhere on a Bermuda shore minding his own business.

[Dizzy28]

there are people who do good and people who do bad.. obviously he is trying to pull down the good to join the bad.. you ever notice when you are trying to make a change for the better how hard and difficult it is? you can make a difference by doing the right thing.. even in the face of wrongdoing. because everybody taking bribe you gonna take bribe too? its not wise to gain the world and lose your soul.

Isn't the belief of Satan a convenient way to blame a 3rd party for Humanity's own inadequacy for not doing the right thing. Seems like a copout to blame Satan when we should blame ourselves.

[nismotrinidappa]

there is good and there is bad? you believe that? if yes good... using my example before we can think a little outside the box.. someone comes to give you a bribe to do something that is wrong. we can take satan out the equation and not say that satan send him.. the main point is that you choose to do right or do wrong.. the choice is up to you! so i am not blaming satan... you have to answer for your actions.
so to sum up man does bad...but satan tempts him to do it..

to maj tom
Rev 12:9 (NIV) The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray...

to dizzy 28
LUKE 4:5 Then the devil, taking him up on a high mountain, showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to him, "All this authority I will give you, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." (NKJV)

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and walking back and forth on it."

still not sure?

REVELATION 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world — he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

[MG Man]

so get to know jesus now.. not religion... but a close relationship with jesus

why are you directing me to a middleman?
why not go straight to the source code?

[nismotrinidappa]

because god sent jesus to save you. he died and was crucified to redeem man.... jesus took the form of man in order to relate to us directly and save us... you cannot see god in that sense and live as you have sin and will perish in his presence and sin cannot be in his presence..

so repentance is through jesus christ.. he will give you salvation....understand?

and he is god....but in another form..

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself" .. (2 Corinthians 5:19)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

because god sent jesus to save you. he died and was crucified to redeem man.... jesus took the form of man in order to relate to us directly and save us... you cannot see god in that sense and live as you have sin and will perish in his presence and sin cannot be in his presence..

so repentance is through jesus christ.. he will give you salvation....understand?

and he is god....but in another form..

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself" .. (2 Corinthians 5:19)

AdamB pointed out that the Qur'an says there is no original sin and that Jesus is a prophet, not the son of God and only Allah can give salvation.

what makes one book right and the other wrong?

[MG Man]

because god sent jesus to save you. he died and was crucified to redeem man.... jesus took the form of man in order to relate to us directly and save us... you cannot see god in that sense and live as you have sin and will perish in his presence and sin cannot be in his presence..

so repentance is through jesus christ.. he will give you salvation....understand?

and he is god....but in another form..

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself" .. (2 Corinthians 5:19)

yeah but jesus died for my sins so hey Joe, I'm sin free :p

[Dizzy28]

Came across this from VS Naipaul and thought it rather thought provoking

"The cruelty of Islamic fundamentalism is that it allows to only one people—the Arabs, the original people of the Prophet—a past, and sacred places, pilgrimages and earth reverences. These sacred Arab places have to be the sacred places of all the converted peoples. Converted peoples have to strip themselves of their past; of converted peoples nothing is required but the purest faith (if such a thing can be arrived at), Islam, submission. It is the most uncompromising kind of imperialism"