The Religion Discussion

[Oleander]

I focus on here and now..Everyday I take a leap of faith... and everyday I am confident that my God is my everything. When I was broken and had no where to turn I made the choice to pray and acknowledged Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He has shown me His grace and mercy. The fullness of His Love is all one needs.

[AdamB]

megadoc1 said he believed in God just like I did..

What is that belief, specifically?

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

So if someone believes in ONE GOD and calls HIM Lucifer or Satan? What say you then?

[AdamB]

I focus on here and now..Everyday I take a leap of faith... and everyday I am confident that my God is my everything. When I was broken and had no where to turn I made the choice to pray and acknowledged Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He has shown me His grace and mercy. The fullness of His Love is all one needs.

GOD does not place a burden on someone greater than he/she can bear.

What you described above, persons from every religion and atheists also can say that they were down and out and survived and prospered. Look at Bill Gates, the facebook guy, etc. GOD is THE ONE who provides for ALL of HIS creation, so don't confuse what was PREDECREED to occur with it happening because of your accepting Jesus as your saviour. The guy who accepts Satan as his saviour may say the same thing you are saying. (Please note most people don't understand the Pre-decree of GOD. We can only say it WAS Pre-decreed to occur when it HAS already happened in the PAST. Please don't get the idea that we don't have our choice and will, because we do.)
Has any "supernatural" showing of his grace and mercy happened to you? Tell us more about it.

[megadoc1]

megadoc1 said he believed in God just like I did..

What is that belief, specifically?

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

So if someone believes in ONE GOD and calls HIM Lucifer or Satan? What say you then?

I would say you should try not suggesting people's gods name for them...

[AdamB]

megadoc1 said he believed in God just like I did..

What is that belief, specifically?

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

So if someone believes in ONE GOD and calls HIM Lucifer or Satan? What say you then?

I would say you should try not suggesting people's gods name for them...

Why not?

If in reality, Jesus is a MAN and NOT GOD, yet you worship him, then what will be your faith when you stand to be judged by GOD on the day of Judgment? (Note the IF, and please answer, I am asking kindly.)

[AdamB]

I focus on here and now.. The fullness of His Love is all one needs.

If this is true (that His Love is ALL one needs), why did GOD place you on this earth, here and now? Why did HE not put you in Paradise in a glass case?

Certainly we ALL need other things as well, here and now?

And we have a purpose to fulfill here and now, on this earth?

[Oleander]

I focus on here and now..Everyday I take a leap of faith... and everyday I am confident that my God is my everything. When I was broken and had no where to turn I made the choice to pray and acknowledged Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He has shown me His grace and mercy. The fullness of His Love is all one needs.

GOD does not place a burden on someone greater than he/she can bear.

What you described above, persons from every religion and atheists also can say that they were down and out and survived and prospered. Look at Bill Gates, the facebook guy, etc. GOD is THE ONE who provides for ALL of HIS creation, so don't confuse what was PREDECREED to occur with it happening because of your accepting Jesus as your saviour. The guy who accepts Satan as his saviour may say the same thing you are saying.

Has any "supernatural" showing of his grace and mercy happened to you? Tell us more about it.

You seem so dispassionate about your belief...All your quotes and references that were written by men. It's sad.

Being a skeptic I thought that I would never be able to revel in the peace that I enjoy without a tangible experience from God.
As you said basically in every forum of belief or ideology people's lives can be transformed by change of circumstance or the simple need to be a part of something greater.

When I entered my relationship with the Lord I had one simple request to alleviate my doubt and an opportunity for Him to show me His grace upon my life.
I asked the Lord to tell me twice. Therefore when I seek His presence and search His wisdom for specific reasons His answer to me must be told twice.
Just this week, I prayed about a current situation and the answer to my prayer was given twice.
1. Through the bible when I randomly opened it.
2. It was spoken when I went to church. Clearly and distinctly a message to me providing my answer as clear and bright as daylight.

So shall I ask with a hint of sarcasm .. about your supernatural experience which concretes your belief in your God? Or you just require what you deem as facts as a basis?

[Oleander]

The Bible specifically says, without any other possible interpretation, that there is only one God, one faith, one baptism, and one way to God the Father – and that is only through His Son Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death on the cross. Jesus says that He, and only He, is the way, the truth, and the life leading to God the Father and that no one comes to the Father except through Him!

I believe that Jesus died at Calvary and rose again. I believe that he is my redeemer. I believe that when I pray in the name of my Saviour Jesus Christ to my God and Provider that I pray with power and authority and it is my faith in my constant prayer that He will answer my prayer.

I don't need to be in paradise to experience the fullness of God's love. In everything I will praise my God. There is not a day that goes by be it good or bad that I cease to feel God's love upon my life. I was put in this place with a purpose and through my purpose I serve my God and relish in His glory as I do.

[AdamB]

I focus on here and now..Everyday I take a leap of faith... and everyday I am confident that my God is my everything. When I was broken and had no where to turn I made the choice to pray and acknowledged Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He has shown me His grace and mercy. The fullness of His Love is all one needs.

GOD does not place a burden on someone greater than he/she can bear.

What you described above, persons from every religion and atheists also can say that they were down and out and survived and prospered. Look at Bill Gates, the facebook guy, etc. GOD is THE ONE who provides for ALL of HIS creation, so don't confuse what was PREDECREED to occur with it happening because of your accepting Jesus as your saviour. The guy who accepts Satan as his saviour may say the same thing you are saying.

Has any "supernatural" showing of his grace and mercy happened to you? Tell us more about it.

You seem so dispassionate about your belief...All your quotes and references that were written by men. It's sad.

Being a skeptic I thought that I would never be able to revel in the peace that I enjoy without a tangible experience from God.
As you said basically in every forum of belief or ideology people's lives can be transformed by change of circumstance or the simple need to be a part of something greater.

When I entered my relationship with the Lord I had one simple request to alleviate my doubt and an opportunity for Him to show me His grace upon my life.
I asked the Lord to tell me twice. Therefore when I seek His presence and search His wisdom for specific reasons His answer to me must be told twice.
Just this week, I prayed about a current situation and the answer to my prayer was given twice.
1. Through the bible when I randomly opened it.
2. It was spoken when I went to church. Clearly and distinctly a message to me providing my answer as clear and bright as daylight.

So shall I ask with a hint of sarcasm .. about your supernatural experience which concretes your belief in your God? Or you just require what you deem as facts as a basis?

Nostradamus could give you the inspiration you desire about future events as well.
How do you know it's not Satan playing with your mind?

[AdamB]

The Bible specifically says, without any other possible interpretation, that there is only one God, one faith, one baptism, and one way to God the Father – and that is only through His Son Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death on the cross. Jesus says that He, and only He, is the way, the truth, and the life leading to God the Father and that no one comes to the Father except through Him!

I don't need to be in paradise to experience the fullness of God's love. In everything I will praise my God. There is not a day that goes by be it good or bad that I cease to feel God's love upon my life. I was put in this place with a purpose and through my purpose I serve my God and relish in His glory as I do.

Jesus also said:
Our Father, thou art in Heaven.
My Father is greater than I.

The miraculous birth of Jesus is not proof that he is God or Divine (worthy of wo

Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights and was hungry. Is that befitting of God?

Jesus was "took" to places by Satan and said "You must not tempt the Lord your God". Satan offer

Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfil them".

Jesus said "do not imitate the hypocrites, they love to say their prayers STANDING" matthew 6:5.

Matthew 7:21 "it is not those who say to me, Lord Lord, who will enter the kingdom of heaven". He ref

Matthew 10:40 "those who welcome me welcome the one who sent me". Here it is clearly stated that ONE

Matthew 12:18 Jesus a "chosen servant of God". So there must be others to choose from?

What is the true meaning of the sign of Jonah (matt 12:40). The sign is JUST LIKE JONAH. So if Jo

Mark 11:12-14 Jesus did not know that the fig tree was barren. Isn't God ALL KNOWLEDGEABLE?

What is the greatest commandment? Mark 12:29 "Hear O Israel, the Lord OUR God is the ONE God".

Mark 13:32. No one not the angels, not the Son but only the Father knows of the hour! Doesn't this say that Jesus is separate from God and does not possess God's knowledge. God curse an innocent fig tree?nah was dead and came back to life then he was ressurrected JUST LIKE Jesus. Or was it that he was alive so then Jesus was alive and did not die?SENT Jesus.ers to them as "evil men".ed all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus if the latter would worship Satan. Doesn't everything that exists already belong to God? Jesus said "You must worship the Lord your God and serve Him alone". And so we are back to the first commandment of Moses.rship) because Adam and Eve were created without father and mother. So why are they also not the Children of God. Aren't the peacemakers called Children of God?

IF Jesus died on the cross, then to be divine is to be ever living (and not die).

[AdamB]

The Bible specifically says, without any other possible interpretation, that there is only one God, one faith, one baptism, and one way to God the Father – and that is only through His Son Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death on the cross. Jesus says that He, and only He, is the way, the truth, and the life leading to God the Father and that no one comes to the Father except through Him!

I believe that Jesus died at Calvary and rose again. I believe that he is my redeemer. I believe that when I pray in the name of my Saviour Jesus Christ to my God and Provider that I pray with power and authority and it is my faith in my constant prayer that He will answer my prayer.

I don't need to be in paradise to experience the fullness of God's love. In everything I will praise my God. There is not a day that goes by be it good or bad that I cease to feel God's love upon my life. I was put in this place with a purpose and through my purpose I serve my God and relish in His glory as I do.

Curious about what Dspike would say about this!

"SCRIPTURE IS DIVINELY INSPIRED, DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY." He would be right in this case, Megadoc. Simple truth. Hmmm...

[AdamB]

Sorry, there was a lil shuffling of sentences from my BB, will fix later.

[megadoc1]

some Muslims who have a mindset that if a person eat pork or is an unbeliever ,nothing valuable can come from them..

That's not true. What is the basis for this statement? GOD affirms in the Qur'aan that some good/benefit comes from alcohol, gambling, etc but the evil far outweighs the good.

well answer me this ...is there anything that d spike wrote here that you can gather simple truths from? if no GOTO quote below

some Muslims have a mindset that if a person eat pork or is an unbeliever ,nothing valuable can come from them..

I already responded to this, yes.

yes? as in he really speak valuable stuff?

I believe in God and I believe all truth comes from God

If you believe in GOD, then you would recognize the truth in the Qur'aan. Since you don't recognize the Qur'an as truth, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN GOD?

I do recognize truths in the Qur'an but that does not mean that the quran is a truthful book as a whole

We can say the same for the bible, do you agree?

agreed! but the problem is you choose what you take as truth, your quran said it is God's word but you said it was corrupted yet you cant say when this corruption took place, despite the fact that it is in the original completed form that it was in when Allah told Muhammad to go check it out and confirm it

what attack?

It is very wrong for people to portray polygamy as only as Muslim thing yet it is ...................................................................................................................................

dan how does his warrant such a response? a guy simply asked some questions and it was considered to be an attack on muslims...

It was, simply, because he chose to attack muslims alone.

where is the attack? the man push he mouth in a 300+ pages ched and the first set of questions he got he considered it an attack on muslims? outside with that crap
all Tony m did was asked a Muslim...some questions concerning islam,.... if you fail to get educated about what others believe and behaving like an idiot on here.. you think any body on here, gonna ask the next Muslim who comes along with the same vibes,about belief systems outside of Islam?

Megadoc1 tell me if you disbelieve in any of these:

1. GOD and HIS ONENESS.

2. THE BOOKS, REVELATIONS SENT BY GOD TO MAN.

3. THE ANGELS.

4. THE PROPHETS.

5. THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.

6. DIVINE PRE-DECREE (that GOD WILLS everything to occur that occurs), ITS GOOD AND ITS BAD (that GOD WILLS GOOD and BAD/EVIL like hellfire/satan to occur for a wisdom, through HIS knowledge and not without justice.)

at this point my disbelief in any of those things brings nothing to this discussion when you can bring yourself to respecting infidels and pork eaters we go talk

[Oleander]

How do you know it's not Satan playing with your mind?

The Bible tells us that God’s people can perish for having lack of knowledge – and not having the right kind of knowledge to fully understand why bad things can even happen to good people in this life, especially to Christians, can cause you to perish in your own personal relationship with the Lord if you ever end up losing your faith in Him as a result of not being able to fully understand why He may have allowed some severe adversity to hit you in the first place.

AdamB I know that Satan isn't playing with my mind because as I grow nearer to God, Satan unleashes attacks on my life trying to derail my emotions, my faith ... It took me a while to realise what was going on.. How satan used fear to break me down.
Why would satan do that? If God wasn't who He is, and my faith in Him wasn't important then satan shouldn't have the need to play with my mind.

Don't you play with someone's mind to mislead them? Why would satan want to mislead me?
So it's simple, negative forces upon my life only strengthen my faith in God because time and time again He has delivered me.

[megadoc1]

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

So if someone believes in ONE GOD and calls HIM Lucifer or Satan? What say you then?

I would say you should try not suggesting people's gods name for them...

Why not?

because you obviously suck at it .....out of all the names you know that's the best two you can sugest? the worst out of your book?

If in reality, Jesus is a MAN and NOT GOD, yet you worship him, then what will be your faith when you stand to be judged by GOD on the day of Judgment? (Note the IF, and please answer, I am asking kindly.)

in reality Jesus is both a man and God ..why do you feel the need to add a variable to my belief system in that specific area ? if in reality there is no judgment? that cant sit well with you ent?

[DFC]

[
THE ONLY TRUE MONOTHEISM IS ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM!!

I Can prove you wrong there!

I have countered your false accusations Adamb, why u no answer the questions i posed for
you?

You should not make such strong claims of your book, because its full of contradictions, holes and satanic verses, as i quoted in my previous posts.

I gotta go to work now, but i hope you can answer my questions by the time i get home.

[AdamB]

[
THE ONLY TRUE MONOTHEISM IS ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM!!

I Can prove you wrong there!

I have countered your false accusations Adamb, why u no answer the questions i posed for
you?

You should not make such strong claims of your book, because its full of contradictions, holes and satanic verses, as i quoted in my previous posts.

I gotta go to work now, but i hope you can answer my questions by the time i get home.

Sorry dude, I already have a permanent job!

[AdamB]

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

So if someone believes in ONE GOD and calls HIM Lucifer or Satan? What say you then?

I would say you should try not suggesting people's gods name for them...

Why not?

because you obviously suck at it .....out of all the names you know that's the best two you can sugest? the worst out of your book?
Just showing you that it IS important WHO we worship and HOW we worship GOD. The latter is done the way in which HE has instructed us to.

If in reality, Jesus is a MAN and NOT GOD, yet you worship him, then what will be your faith when you stand to be judged by GOD on the day of Judgment? (Note the IF, and please answer, I am asking kindly.)

in reality Jesus is both a man and God ..why do you feel the need to add a variable to my belief system in that specific area ?
Because it IS a valid POSSIBLE reality.

if in reality there is no judgment? that cant sit well with you ent?

I think we are now having a discussion the way that it is supposed to happen here (now that the clowns are at bay, for the while).

For us, whoever disbelieves in the Judgment, disbelieves in GOD. According to YOUR Catholic christianity, WILL there be a Judgment to come?

Muslims have been informed that there will be some who GOD will exempt from Judgment. Who are they? They are those who say "There is no (true) GOD except the ONE TRUE GOD with the condition that THEY SEEK THE FACE OF GOD." This is equivalent to your first commandment of Moses (THOU SHALT HAVE NO GODS BESIDES ME).

The condition is not one that is easy to fulfill, it means to have SINCERITY and FOLLOWING the commands, AVOIDING the prohibitions the best the person is able to do. And possibly more.

[AdamB]

some Muslims who have a mindset that if a person eat pork or is an unbeliever ,nothing valuable can come from them..

That's not true. What is the basis for this statement? GOD affirms in the Qur'aan that some good/benefit comes from alcohol, gambling, etc but the evil far outweighs the good.

well answer me this ...is there anything that d spike wrote here that you can gather simple truths from? if no GOTO quote below

some Muslims have a mindset that if a person eat pork or is an unbeliever ,nothing valuable can come from them..

I already responded to this, yes.

yes? as in he really speak valuable stuff?

I believe in God and I believe all truth comes from God

If you believe in GOD, then you would recognize the truth in the Qur'aan. Since you don't recognize the Qur'an as truth, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN GOD?

I do recognize truths in the Qur'an but that does not mean that the quran is a truthful book as a whole

We can say the same for the bible, do you agree?

agreed! but the problem is you choose what you take as truth, your quran said it is God's word but you said it was corrupted yet you cant say when this corruption took place, despite the fact that it is in the original completed form that it was in when Allah told Muhammad to go check it out and confirm it
I have never said that the Qur'aan is corrupted, it was memorized during the lifetime of the prophet and thereby preserved for all time to come. GOD says in the Qur'aan that HE will preserve it. It has never been and never will be changed or corrupted except that it will be recognized and never allowed to be. Look at it like Quality Assurance, get it right the first time.

what attack?

It is very wrong for people to portray polygamy as only as Muslim thing yet it is ...................................................................................................................................

dan how does his warrant such a response? a guy simply asked some questions and it was considered to be an attack on muslims...

It was, simply, because he chose to attack muslims alone.

where is the attack? the man push he mouth in a 300+ pages ched and the first set of questions he got he considered it an attack on muslims? outside with that crap
all Tony m did was asked a Muslim...some questions concerning islam,.... if you fail to get educated about what others believe and behaving like an idiot on here.. you think any body on here, gonna ask the next Muslim who comes along with the same vibes,about belief systems outside of Islam?
Get real megadoc, that was not his first post here and every single one has been in strong criticism of Islam and Muslims. wait, is he the guy who supposed to be muslim but doh really understand Islam? (Not crossdrilled).

Megadoc1 tell me if you disbelieve in any of these:

1. GOD and HIS ONENESS.

2. THE BOOKS, REVELATIONS SENT BY GOD TO MAN.

3. THE ANGELS.

4. THE PROPHETS.

5. THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.

6. DIVINE PRE-DECREE (that GOD WILLS everything to occur that occurs), ITS GOOD AND ITS BAD (that GOD WILLS GOOD and BAD/EVIL like hellfire/satan to occur for a wisdom, through HIS knowledge and not without justice.)

at this point my disbelief in any of those things brings nothing to this discussion when you can bring yourself to respecting infidels and pork eaters we go talk

Answer and I will tell you how it does.

If I didn't respect "infidels" would I be here, having discussions with them, inviting them to GOD?

Do you eat pork? Do you love it? You can't do without it?
This has nothing to do with the discussion, I don't care what people eat, they are free to eat whatever they want.

If someone believes that pork is prohibited for man to eat because it IS prohibited for the jews who follow the Old Testament and since Jesus did not come to abolish the LAW or the prophets but to fulfill it, then it should be prohibited for christians as well.

Then, whoever eats pork, does so in disobedience to GOD, thereby committing sin. And the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH! Now please tell me what that means. Sorry don't answer that.

[RBphoto]

The pig is a much maligned animal oui... Question... are wild boars considered pigs?

[AdamB]

TonyM, did you do any arabic language studies?
Sorry to even call you out like that. I don't mean to single anyone out.
AFAIK, the Quran and the Hadith are all in Arabic.
What you and others are posting are translations and explanations. If you did study Arabic and Quranic Arabic language then excellent!

Why i brought this up?
One can go as far as to say this is mere "works of man" and even diversions from the actual meaning. One can easily take anything from any part of any book and take it out of context and in this case, change it's intended meaning.
JustSaying.

(and yea i came back... i tried not having this thread show up on Tapatalk but i couldnt find all my posts in here to remove them)

I was right, d man files buss long time ago by M_2NR.

[AdamB]

The pig is a much maligned animal oui... Question... are wild boars considered pigs?

Are ignorant clowns considered not to be clowns because they are ignorant?

[megadoc1]

Just showing you that it IS important WHO we worship and HOW we worship GOD. The latter is done the way in which HE has instructed us to.

but you claim that there is one God so why everyone Else's God is not God unless they call Him allah?

(Note the IF, and please answer, I am asking kindly.)

Because it IS a valid POSSIBLE reality.

perfect example of deceit

I think we are now having a discussion the way that it is supposed to happen here (now that the clowns are at bay, for the while).

how this discusion suppose to happen? as long as the pig eaters are not around?

For us, whoever disbelieves in the Judgment, disbelieves in GOD.

BS..... before you know anything about judgement you got to know about God first..it can take one a while before they truly believe in or understand judgment but that does not mean they disbelieve in God ...on the other hand if a man don't believe in God are you gonna expect him to believe in his judgment?

According to YOUR Catholic christianity, WILL there be a Judgment to come?

can you read a bible?

Muslims have been informed that there will be some who GOD will exempt from Judgment. Who are they? They are those who say "There is no (true) GOD except the ONE TRUE GOD with the condition that THEY SEEK THE FACE OF GOD." This is equivalent to your first commandment of Moses (THOU SHALT HAVE NO GODS BESIDES ME).

The condition is not one that is easy to fulfill, it means to have SINCERITY and FOLLOWING the commands, AVOIDING the prohibitions the best the person is able to do. And possibly more.

thanks for sharing your faith..now would you consider what the Christians are informed?

[AdamB]

Just showing you that it IS important WHO we worship and HOW we worship GOD. The latter is done the way in which HE has instructed us to.

but you claim that there is one God so why everyone Else's God is not God unless they call Him allah?

(Note the IF, and please answer, I am asking kindly.)

Because it IS a valid POSSIBLE reality.

perfect example of deceit

I think we are now having a discussion the way that it is supposed to happen here (now that the clowns are at bay, for the while).

how this discusion suppose to happen? as long as the pig eaters are not around?

For us, whoever disbelieves in the Judgment, disbelieves in GOD.

BS..... before you know anything about judgement you got to know about God first..it can take one a while before they truly believe in or understand judgment but that does not mean they disbelieve in God ...on the other hand if a man don't believe in God are you gonna expect him to believe in his judgment?

According to YOUR Catholic christianity, WILL there be a Judgment to come?

can you read a bible?

Muslims have been informed that there will be some who GOD will exempt from Judgment. Who are they? They are those who say "There is no (true) GOD except the ONE TRUE GOD with the condition that THEY SEEK THE FACE OF GOD." This is equivalent to your first commandment of Moses (THOU SHALT HAVE NO GODS BESIDES ME).

The condition is not one that is easy to fulfill, it means to have SINCERITY and FOLLOWING the commands, AVOIDING the prohibitions the best the person is able to do. And possibly more.

thanks for sharing your faith..now would you consider what the Christians are informed?

For just a moment there I you seemed to want to have a moderate discussion. Now I see otherwise.

Admit it, you have given up on this thread quite a while ago. Was it because of Dspike overpowering you? And you didn't clarify if you consider him an infidel. BTW I don't care what you consider me to me and have not placed any judgment on anyone here, only critical of their erring belief.

Cheers (to you be your way and to me mine.)

[d spike]

There are three categories of ONENESS OF GOD:
1. LORDSHIP (Creator, Sustainer, Owner, Running of affairs, Giver and taker of life)
2. WORSHIP (HE ALONE is to be worshipped in the way that HE has legislated)
3. NAMES AND ATTRIBUTES. (not resembling the Creation and creation not resembling HIM, unique to HIM, Names not without meaning and Attributes of perfection, There is NONE LIKE UNTO HIM).

Says who?

Names???
Why this constant hang-up on names??? Do you really think you might end up mistakenly praying to the WRONG God? Isn't the whole point of Monotheism that there is ONLY one????

One again Dspike, why do you assume that you are right because you could be wrong since your basis is FAITH ONLY?

Once again, I can prove my methodology from my napkin, can you do the same for your's? Sorry, don't answer that...you wrote before...you don't have to reveal your belief...I REALLY DON'T CARE!!

You are a fool if you cannot discuss what is SAID. Why is this SO HARD FOR YOU? Simply because you ARE NOT HERE FOR DISCUSSION. You NEED to know what church I rattle my tambourine in, in order for you to respond to me, FOR YOUR RESPONSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAY, BUT WHAT RELIGION I BELONG TO.
There was a time when Islam upheld and admired scholastic and academic achievement. Clearly, you follow some sect that does not subscribe to such past goals. I guess it is much easier to throw stones rather than exercise the muscle between one's ears.

I am really getting tired of your ignorance parading as knowledge. You learned a few lines from your mimeographed pages, then you rattle off a few words of which you clearly don't know the meanings!
First of all, look up the meaning of the word "methodology". (It is not something you can prove.)
Secondly, I did not assume I am right, I just asked you why the "hang-up" about names? I have asked this before, but you studiously ignore the question. Now that megadoc has brought it up, perhaps you will deal with it:

not the contradictory one where I believe there is one God but I must get whatever his name is right lest I pray to the wrong one...wait

Curious about what Dspike would say about this!

Oh, so now you are interested in what I have to say? How nice... I suppose that means you will be dealing with what I have been talking about now...?

"SCRIPTURE IS DIVINELY INSPIRED, DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY." He would be right in this case, Megadoc. Simple truth. Hmmm...

How do you do it? Do you practice in front a mirror daily, or is it a natural gift? I really can't see how someone could be surrounded by information, be skilled enough to manipulate modern technology in order to communicate with others, yet remain so completely ignorant of simple truths that are not even hidden! At least google "literal translation", if you are so allergic to books other than the Koran. You CLEARLY do not understand what it means. So instead of talking about it and displaying your ignorance, look it up nah.

THE ONLY TRUE MONOTHEISM IS ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM!!

This is YOUR opinion.
The opinion of a person who:
uses words of which he is clueless about the meanings;
attempts to take part in a public discussion about religion, yet thinks theological statements are poetry;
takes a stand on concepts about which he clearly shows no comprehension...

hmmmm... does this person's opinion carry much weight?

[Oleander]

DISPASSIONATE is what AdamB is. Hiding behind his quotes and not answering questions put to him. He thinks he can strike doubt within people with his lame "analytics"
It became quite boring because it's not a discussion it's an attack or rather failed attempts.

[megadoc1]

We can say the same for the bible, do you agree?

agreed! but the problem is you choose what you take as truth, your quran said it is God's word but you said it was corrupted yet you cant say when this corruption took place, despite the fact that it is in the original completed form that it was in when Allah told Muhammad to go check it out and confirm it
I have never said that the Qur'aan is corrupted, it was memorized during the lifetime of the prophet and thereby preserved for all time to come. GOD says in the Qur'aan that HE will preserve it. It has never been and never will be changed or corrupted except that it will be recognized and never allowed to be. Look at it like Quality Assurance, get it right the first time.

sorry let me clarify the problem is you choose what you take as truth, your quran said that the bible is God's word but you said that the bible was corrupted yet you cant say when this corruption took place, despite the fact that the bible is in the original completed form that it was in when Allah told Muhammad to go check it out and confirm it

Get real megadoc, that was not his first post here and every single one has been in strong criticism of Islam and Muslims.

boo wooo wooo so what islam cant be criticized? let allah defend himself nah ..what you is allah hero? your God so feeble that he needs you to defend him?

wait, is he the guy who supposed to be muslim but doh really understand Islam? (Not crossdrilled).

something wrong with that ? I thought this was about learning and growing in faith..I guess that guy is going to hell for not fully understanding islam

Answer and I will tell you how it does.

If I didn't respect "infidels" would I be here, having discussions with them, inviting them to GOD?

that's what you call an invitation? lol I now see why its easier to go to hell

Do you eat pork? Do you love it? You can't do without it?
This has nothing to do with the discussion, I don't care what people eat, they are free to eat whatever they want.

lies again you really don't care? we all know by now the chess bun you suffer when the Qur'an is ignored..

[/quote]

If someone believes that pork is prohibited for man to eat because it IS prohibited for the jews who follow the Old Testament and since Jesus did not come to abolish the LAW or the prophets but to fulfill it, then it should be prohibited for christians as well.

what about those who aren't Jews? you don't expect them to be under Jewish laws now don't you?
if you were able to make an effort and read the bible you would learn that those laws are only for those under the law...the second problem you encounter is to think that Christians are subjected to those laws but we all know how well you understand the bible so no need for us to waste time there

Then, whoever eats pork, does so in disobedience to GOD, thereby committing sin. And the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH! Now please tell me what that means. Sorry don't answer that.

as long as your premise is wrong, your conclusion would follow suit go study the Cristian faith,or read the bible ..but this is hard for you because of your mindset

[megadoc1]

Admit it, you have given up on this thread quite a while ago.

yuh on to something here but its just that I have matured in my walk with God to the point that I am able to respect another's point of view, I know my God is able to defend himself and he will someday do so! in the mean time why not come on here and have some fun?

Was it because of Dspike overpowering you?

actually, yes he arm wrestled me from day one and took my REBUKE O 500 and ever since then he hits me a blast or two.

And you didn't clarify if you consider him an infidel.

I did say he was the devil

BTW I don't care what you consider me to me and have not placed any judgment on anyone here, only critical of their erring belief.

Cheers (to you be your way and to me mine.)

I consider you to be a muslim(no offence to muslims)

[DFC]

[
THE ONLY TRUE MONOTHEISM IS ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM!!

I Can prove you wrong there!

I have countered your false accusations Adamb, why u no answer the questions i posed for
you?

You should not make such strong claims of your book, because its full of contradictions, holes and satanic verses, as i quoted in my previous posts.

I gotta go to work now, but i hope you can answer my questions by the time i get home.

Sorry dude, I already have a permanent job!

Its ok to say you dont know,and that deep down you know its true, Islam is a flawed religion.

Idol worship- I posted about that earlier.
Quran is corrupted and inconsistent.- i posted on that in the previous page.

Islam the Religion of Tauheed? (Monotheism)

Tauheed in Islam
Any Muslim, when asked about Oneness of God, proudly recites Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112 of Quran, which is given below
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.


However there are innumerable verses in Quran which contradict the message of Tauheed of Surah Ikhlas. These verses when analyzed rationally would confuse every sensible person that whether it is “Tauheed” or rather “Shirk”, which is the pillar of Islam! Have a look.

1. Allah offers prayers and greetings of Salam to Muhammad!
Allah sends His Salah (prayers) on prophet (Muhammad) and also His angels do so. O believers! Send your Salah on him and greet him with Taslim. [Quran 33:56]

Comments-
a. God, angels, and humans are on one side and Muhammad is on the other! What does this verse show, who is greater, Muhammad or Allah? Of course Muhammad!
b. One can try to deny the “Muhammad worship by Allah” by saying that Salah in the verse means “blessings” or “mercy”! But if that be the case, Allah could have not asked angels and humans to send Salah on Muhammad because humans have no authority to send blessings or mercy on prophet directly! If Salah means offering Dua for Muhammad, then whom will Allah ask for Dua to bless Muhammad? Is there someone greater than Allah?
c. The most recognized Tafsir of Sunni tradition, Tafsir e Ibn Kathir makes it clear what the Salah means. In the description of the same verse [33:56], he writes-
“Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Talhah said that the Messenger of Allah came one day looking happy. They said, “O Messenger of Allah, we see that you look happy.” He said, The angel came to me and told me, “O Muhammad, would it not please you if your Lord, may He be glorified, says: `No member of your Ummah sends Salah upon you but I send Salah upon him tenfold, and no member of your Ummah sends greetings of Salam upon you but I send greetings of Salam upon him tenfold.”’ I said, “Of course.” This was also recorded by An-Nasa’i.”

So it is clear that Allah sends Salah and greetings of Salam to a human!



2. Muhammad is Noor (sacred light) and Allah is also Noor! [Quran 5:15/17, 24:35]
Comment-
Same attributes for both Allah and Muhammad, where is the Tauheed?




3. Faith in Muhammad = Love for Allah. Allah forgives those who follow Muhammad!
Say: “If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Quran 3:31]

Comment-
Muslim friends always criticize Hindus and Christians for their beliefs in Gurus or Jesus but what does this verse show? Muhammad is nothing but an agent between Allah and his followers. What if one doesn’t want any agent between him and Allah?


4. Allah says: Realize that My Prophetic Messenger (Muhammad) himself is with you!
And know that among you is Allah’s Messenger… [Quran 49:7]
Comments-
a. Why should not we realize that Allah is with us every time instead of Muhammad? What if One wants to realize Allah and Allah alone? How is the follower at fault if he realizes Allah without involving any agent in between, because of the omnipresence of Allah as per the Quran?

b. Arguments about this verse to be limited for Muhammad’s lifetime bite the dust because then Quran cannot be the final and perfect book as most of its verses are expired and of no relevance today!



5. Allah describes Muhammad with His Own Attributes of Rauf (Most Kind) and Rahim (Merciful)!
Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful. [Quran 9:128]

Comments-
a. Sharing attributes with Allah is nothing but Shirk.
b. Does Muhammad have capability to be merciful? If so, why Muslims refute the claims of Christians that Jesus will forgive sins of his followers on behalf of God?
c. What if one does good deeds throughout his life but does not follow Muhammad? Will he be on the mercy of merciful Muhammad to get a ticket to heaven? Seems like Muhammad has keys to Jannat.

6. Allah does not punish people if he (Muhammad) is in their midst!
But Allah was not going to send them a penalty whilst thou wast amongst them; nor was He going to send it whilst they could ask for pardon. [Quran 8:33]
Comments-
a. Is this verse relevant today? If no, Quran is again proven to be irrelevant in the contemporary world. If yes, how can Muhammad be in midst of today’s Muslims?
b. Isn’t Allah doing injustice by not punishing people who deserve it?
c. It seems that there are two centers of power; neither of them can intervene with the matters of others! This is Tauheed, One Allah but two authorities.



7. Allegiance to Muhammad is allegiance to Allah!
Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah…. [Quran 48:10]
Comment-
Is there anything still left to prove that Muhammad is yet another God of Islam? How does it matter whether you call anyone X or Y or Muhammad if he is equally powerful as Allah, at least in some matters? The only claim Muslims have is that Muhammad is not Allah! Yes, of course, he is not! But he does not need to be the one, he is already in the state of supreme authority in many cases and shares attributes with Allah and in some cases even surpasses Allah in authority L as mentioned above.



8. Allah asks all the Prophets to believe in Muhammad!
Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: “I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help.” Allah said: “Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?” They said: “We agree.” He said: “Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.” [Quran 3:81]

Comments-
a. One wonders about the time and place of this discussion as to when and where this conversation took place? Is this the time of prophecy of Muhammad? If so, all the previous prophets have already lived their lives and thus can’t do anything in this matter!
b. If this verse is of the time of any previous prophet, why Allah has called “prophets”? Were there multiple prophets on the earth at the same time?
c. Or was this meeting held in heavens before any prophet came to the earth? Why was not Muhammad present in the meeting?
d. If this meeting was held during the lifetime of Muhammad but in heavens, what was the purpose of this verse that it was revealed when it has nothing to do with common man?
e. Or was the purpose of this verse to send people the message that even prophets bow to Muhammad and thus you should automatically submit to him?
f. When every prophet believed in Allah, what was left in their belief that they had to believe in Muhammad additionally? Is not Muhammad a well proven associate of Allah after all this?




9. Muhammad- The final judge and supreme authority!
But no, by the Lord, they can have no [real] Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. [Quran 4:65]

Comment-
So message is clear! I can’t have faith if I make Allah as my judge! Simply because it is Muhammad who is the ultimate judge, not Allah. Its time for sensible Muslims to ask themselves, who knows the best, is it Allah or Muhammad?


10. Allah purified Muhammad’s family!
…And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. [Quran 33:33]

Comment-
Billions of families died waiting Allah’s wish to make them pure and spotless, but they failed to grab the attention of Allah. After all they did not belong to Muhammad’s family. Anyway, Allah is Rab ul Aalimin (Lord of the world) and not just Rab ul Muhammad, so keep faith in Him without questioning!


11. Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else!
Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight – are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious. [Quran 9:24]




Faith is incomplete without Muhammad!
Bukhari Vol 1.13: Narrated Abu Huraira: “Allah’s Apostle said, “By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children.”
Comments-
I love my mother who loves and cares me unconditionally, more than Muhammad who will love me only when I submit to him. Am I wrong in it? Why to love anyone selfish more than my own mother?



12. Muhammad is closer to the believers than their own selves!
The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah…. [Quran 33:6]
Comment-
How? Is he supernatural being like Allah? Have not seen greater mockery of Tauheed than this!




13. Whatever he (Muhammad) gives you, take it!
…So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment. [Quran 59:7]
Comment-
It means one has to believe Muhammad to be perfect like Allah and believe him blindly. We refuse to do so, we don’t believe any human to be perfect like God. And we are ready to face any hell for believing in actual Tauheed.





14. Muhammad broke the moon!
The Hour [of Judgment] is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. [Quran 54:1]
Comment-
a. Many argue that this miracle was performed by Allah and not by Muhammad. My question is if this was an act of Allah, it would have never be a miracle because making of whole universe and its sustenance are infinite times bigger miracles of the power of almighty God than this poor show of breaking moon.
b. Readers can read in any Tafsir that how Muhammad showed his middle finger to moon and it got broken into pieces!
c. God cannot change His own laws because if He does that, He can’t be termed as perfect and unchangeable. Thus breaking of moon is a false story to glorify Muhammad or in other words to make him God.





15. Allah appointed Muhammad as an intercessor to appeal for people’s forgiveness!
We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful. [Quran 4:64]
O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee…,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness [of their sins]: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Quran 60:12]
None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission [or promise] from [Allah] Most Gracious. [Quran 19:87]
On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by [Allah] Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him. [Quran 20:109]

Comments-
Again it is proven that Muhammad holds the keys to heaven and hell! He will save whom he wills and throw in hell those whom he is not pleased! Another example of Islamic Tauheed!





16. Those who think Allah and messengers to be different will be thrown in hell!
Those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and wish to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, saying: “We believe in some but reject others”: And wish to adopt a way in between, They are in truth disbelievers; and we have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment. [Quran 4:150,151]




17. Command to follow “Allah and His messenger” appears no less than 72 times in Quran!
Comments-
a. Distinction has already been made by Allah as He gave two different names to Allah and messengers!
b. One thing that would perplex every rational mind – Do Allah and Muhammad teach different things which are complementary to each other? If yes, Allah is incomplete. If no, why not “believing in Allah” itself contains “believing in messengers” automatically? Did messengers teach extra than what they were sent with? Is not Allah a superset of all good teachings, believing in whom should be sufficient?
c. It is proven that Muhammad is not any slave or a subset of Allah or its teachings but he is an associate with Allah in most of His attributes.




18. Muhammad has got 99 names and so as Allah!
Comment-
Do I need to say anything on it? Muhammad is in competition with Allah in even number of names or attributes!



19. Allah and Muhammad share many common attributes such as Awwal, Aakhir, Haqq, Rahim, Kamil etc which mean the first, the last, truth, merciful, perfect respectively!
Comment-
How can both Allah and Muhammad be first, the last, truth and perfect at the same time? This is the Shirk of highest degree to say Muhammad first, last, truth and perfect. If our Muslim friends still see other religions to be polytheistic and theirs to be monotheistic, they cannot be called anything except hypocrites!
By now every logical mind would have understood the fact that Allah, as mentioned in Quran, is incomplete without Muhammad. Belief in Allah alone is not going to help anyone achieve bliss unless he/she believes in Muhammad. Not only that, one has to send his/her Salah on Muhammad just like Allah and His angels do. Isn’t it a mockery of Allah in the name of Tauheed?
Anyone who has slightest amount of faith in One God should seriously think about these absurdities in the name of Oneness of Allah.

Apart from the Verbatims from Quran, we shall discuss some common points in the present context. There are many questions/disagreements which we come across on this issue quite often. Here we provide the answers to those in the form of conversation b/w “M” and “A” representing Islam and Christian view respectively


M: Whatever you have written is all rubbish. We Muslims never worship Muhammad (PBUH). How can you say that Muhammad is equivalent to God in Islam?
A: It has been proven above that not only Muslims but even Allah sends Salah on Muhammad like poor angels and humans. So, this not only proves Muhammad worthy to be worshipped by humans but by Allah too! Moreover, it seems to be a fundamental problem with most of our Muslim friends that they get stuck to the terms without knowing the meanings of those. How does it matter if your relation with Muhammad is not as that of worshipper and worshipped when your worship is useless without reciting his name? You claim to worship Allah alone! Then why Muhammad comes in between always? Can any of your Salah be accepted by Allah if you don’t recite “Muhammad ur Rasool Allah” along with “La illah illallah”? If not, you have some relation “X” with Muhammad which is greater than your relation of worshipping with Allah, because without “X”, your worship of Allah is invalid. Thus if worshipping Muhammad is a Shirk, “Xing” is a greater Shirk because “X” has more importance than “worshipping” for a Muslim and since “X” is related with a human (Muhammad), doing it is a bigger sin than Shirk.



M: No, we don’t worship Muhammad (PBUH). Allah has ordered us to recite his name and we have to obey His commands. So we are obeying Allah, it has nothing to do with the worship of Muhammad (PBUH).
A: Explained above. How do you know that Allah ordered you to do so?

M: Through Muhammad in Quran.

A: So you got to know from Muhammad himself that you have to remember Muhammad in prayers!

M: Yes because Muhammad (PBUH) was final messenger of Allah.

A: What proofs do you have that Quran is the word of God and Muhammad is the messenger?

M: Allah revealed it on Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago. It has not changed till date and is scientifically proven book. This is the proof that Quran is the word of God.

A: Why do you believe in those words blindly? How do you know that Muhammad did not lie? How do you know that Muhammad was actual prophet and not someone cheating and lying to the ignorant Arabs? What if I stand up today and say that I am a messenger of God? What logic you will have against my claim other than your own blind belief in which you are already engaged in? Regarding Quran, it is as illogical to claim Quran to be from God on the bases of unchanged verses and science as if I claim that all the articles on Satyagni are unchanged till date and the books of optics, classical mechanics etc are all scientifically proven books and thus all science books and Satyagni articles are from Allah!

M: Quran had science 1400 years ago. Who could have written it 1400 years ago other than Allah if it is full of the concepts of modern science?

A: OK. What if I prove some verses of Quran to be unscientific?

M: You can not do that!

A: Please tell me about the science behind breaking of moon, flying donkey of Muhammad, stones talking with Moses, Jesus born without father, she camel born from stone, separation of sea water to give path to Muhammad, etc.

M: Science cannot explain these because they are miracles and only Allah can perform them. Allah is above science. And since Quran is word of God, it can overrule science.

A: You have taken U turn now! You claimed science to be the basis of truthfulness and divinity of Quran previously and when Quran was proven unscientific, you claim that Allah is above science! Could you understand the fallacy in your logic? What you had to prove here (divinity of Quran) was already in your assumption (that Allah sent Quran)! Thus Quran is not the word of God logically.

M: Allah Himself reveals in Quran that Muhammad (PBUH) is His final messenger. This is the biggest proof.

A: When it is proven that Quran is not the word of God, how can it be from Allah?

M: We have full faith in Muhammad (PBUH) and thus we trust his words.

A: Why you don’t have trust in me? When you can blindly believe anyone, why not in me?

M: Don’t have the answer.

A: OK. Please tell me, what do you mean by worship?

M: Remembering God and thanking him for His support and love.

A: Don’t you think then that inclusion of Muhammad in prayers is a kind of human worship?

M: No because we don’t consider Muhammad to be God, but the final messenger of God. And look, Muhammad was so kind that he preferred to call himself as slave of Allah, this alone proves that he did not want himself to be worshipped.

A: Associating self with someone bigger brings fame and if you show some humbleness, it catalyzes the effect. This is what Muhammad did And Muhammad was well aware of it.

M: Remembrance of Muhammad in prayers does not mean worship, how many times I have to tell you this?

A: So will it be fine if I add my parents’ names after Allah and Muhammad in Kalma? As I can remember a slave of Allah, the messenger, I can also remember my parents who acted as cause for my existence and thus of course recitation of the very Kalma! And why not include the name of first prophet also?

M: No you can’t, it is not mentioned in Islam.

A: So why are you arguing? You should accept that “Tauheed” or “Oneness of God” is considered good by you not because it is logical but because your book/self proclaimed prophet says so. Same applies with the Kaba idol you worship! You oppose idol worship not because you know the short comings of it, but because your book opposes it! And since Islam allows you to worship idol and humans in some different forms and names (bowing to Kaba as direction of prayers and worshipping Muhammad by reciting “Muhammad is last messenger”) you are as idol/human worshippers as any polytheist whom you consider worst of creatures as per Quran 98:6.

A: Can I ask, is Allah complete and self sufficient?

M: Yes.

A: I already believe in One God, am I a Muslim?

M: No because you don’t believe in Muhammad.

A: Is believing in Muhammad as important as believing in Allah that the punishment for disbelief in both is same, the eternal hell?

M: Yes.

A: How can then Allah be self sufficient to provide me bliss, and how is he above all? Is it not Shirk to give anyone equal importance in belief as in Allah?

M: You have to obey what He has said in Quran.

A: I don’t have faith in Muhammad and thus Quran, what can I do?

M: Get your faith in him otherwise hell.

A: Should I believe blindly in him?
M: ...............


Case (i) M leaves the blind belief and restarts the journey to find the truth (if M is logical and humanitarian)
Case (ii) No answer (if M is not much versed with Hadith and verses of Jihad)
Case (iii) abuses and threats of hell to “A”as a response to the act of this blasphemy (if M is a Jihadi follower of the terrorists like Zakir Naik).


So we conclude that illogical faiths start at blind belief and terminate at silence or violence. Remembering Muhammad in prayers, believing in all those verses which Sharik (involve) Muhammad with Laasharik (with whom no one should be involved) Allah are nothing but the acts of worshipping Muhammad and thus Shirk.

It is proving futile to have discussion with you, because you just dont have the brain to think outside your box.

[AdamB]

DFC,
If you're willing to pay my salary of $20,000 per month, I may be willing to take up your job offer of resolving the absurd objections you have and possibly continue to raise.