The Religion Discussion

[DFC]

14yo schoolgirl activist shot in head by Pakistani Taliban.

http://rt.com/news/taliban-shot-girl-activist-pakistan-015/



The Pakistani Taliban confirmed that one of its members shot and gravely wounded a 14-year-old schoolgirl who earned attention for speaking out against the group.
Malala Yousufzai was shot in the head and neck when militants fired on her school bus on Tuesday. Two other girls were also wounded, police said. Later that day, the Taliban claimed responsibility for the incident in the Swat valley, northwest of the capital Islamabad.
Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters his group was behind the shooting.
"She was pro-West, she was speaking against Taliban and she was calling President Obama her idol."
Yousufzai was rushed to a nearby hospital where doctors are fighting to save her life, according to local news channels. Security forces have cordoned off the hospital.
Yousufzai became famous for speaking out against the Pakistani Taliban at a time when even the government seemed to be appeasing the hardline Islamists. She was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize for a blog she wrote anonymously for the BBC website.
She also won the National Peace Prize in Pakistan, was honored with a school named after her, and quickly became an outspoken critic of the Taliban and public advocate for peace.





BBC Link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19882799

[RBphoto]

Ha Ha... taliban bunch of cowards. Shooting a girl who just opened her mouth to speak. So fragile is their cause.

[nareshseep]

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

[bluefete]

Very interesting read. Maybe, he was just hallucinating in his subconscious - right MGMan?

'It was a place of butterflies, joy and big puffy pink clouds': The leading brain surgeon who is CONVINCED of heaven after 7-day out-of-body odyssey

By Leslie Larson

PUBLISHED: 00:47 GMT, 9 October 2012 | UPDATED: 15:36 GMT, 9 October 2012

A skeptical scientist who had spent his career studying the mechanics of the brain and dismissing patient tales of journeys to heavenly realms has revealed his extraordinary conversion after his own encounter with the afterlife during a near-death experience.

Dr Eben Alexander spent 15 years as an academic neurosurgeon at Harvard but he was struck with a nearly fatal bout of bacterial meningitis in 2008 and had no brain activity when he lay comatose for seven days at a Virginia hospital.

Though he was unconscious and unresponsive during that period, he is now describing a 'hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey' to a place beyond, filled with butterflies and resounding music that has shaken his scientific viewpoint on human consciousness.

Illness: Dr Alexander, pictured with a scan of his infected brain, was in a coma for seven days and doctors did not believe he would emerge. A month later he had almost fully recovered

He says he entered a place filled with clouds and the sound of chanting, and was met by a beautiful blue-eyed woman.

Dr Alexander describes his paradigm shift from focusing solely on the scientific make up of the brain to considering the spiritual realm of the mind, in a deeply reflective essay in Newsweek in advance of the release of his book, Proof of Heaven.



'As a neurosurgeon, I did not believe in the phenomenon of near-death experiences,' he writes in his article, explaining how he had previously relied on 'good scientific explanations for the heavenly out-of-body journeys described by those who narrowly escaped death.'

Though he considered himself a nominal Christian he said he lacked the faith to believe in eternal life.

When his patients would tell tales of going to heaven during near death experiences, he relied on 'current medical understanding of the brain and mind' and disregarded them as wishful thinking.

But after he became the patient, he says he 'experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.'

The 58-year-old has an impressive pedigree. His ancestors were well regarded politicians and prominent fixtures in society in Tennessee. His father was Chief of Neurosurgery at Wake Forest University from 1948 to 1978.

The younger Alexander graduated from Phillips Exeter Academy and received his bachelor's degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1975. He earned his medical degree from Duke in 1980.

He spent 15 years teaching neurology at Harvard Medical School and the University of Virginia - lecturing on and researching brain mapping, the treatment of brain tumors and trying to understand cognition.

In 2008, the father-of-two was in 'good health and good shape,' preparing to embark on a hike with his son of a volcano in South America, he said in a July interview about the ordeal with Skeptiko.

Little did he know that he would soon become a patient at the very hospital where he taught.

The doctor's life was nearly cut short on November 10, 2008, when he awoke at 4:30am to get ready to go to work at the Lynchburg General Hospital in Virginia, where he worked as a neurosurgeon.

All of a sudden, he developed a severe pain in his back and within 15 minutes he was paralyzed in anguish and could barely even move.

His wife, Holley, rushed in to assist him and began to rub his back to relieve the tension but his condition worsened.

Before he began convulsing in a seizure, his last words to his wife were, 'Don't call 911,' and he lost consciousness and has no memory of what happened for an entire week.

Fortunately for him, his wife disregarded his advice and he was rushed to an area hospital and was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis.

'My entire cortex - the part of the brain that controls thought and emotion and that in essence makes us human - had shut down,' he writes in his essay.

'Doctors determined that I had somehow contracted a very rare bacterial meningitis that mostly attacks newborns. E. coli bacteria had penetrated my cerebrospinal fluid and were eating my brain,' he added.

He was placed on a ventilator at the intensive care unit and for six days he was treated with triple antibiotics to fight the bacteria but his brain had little functionality and he was unresponsive, leaving doctors to believe he would not recover.

As his family prepared for the worst, on the seventh day he suddenly opened his eyes.

His breathing tube was removed and he miraculously told doctors, 'Thank you.'

He suffered from amnesia and could not remember his life at all prior to his illness and remained in a haze for the first few days after he came out of the coma.

As he recovered though, he began to recall vivid memories of a magical mental experience during his time in the coma.

There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind - my conscious, inner self - was alive and well.

'While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness journeyed to another, larger dimension of the universe: a dimension I’d never dreamed existed and which the old, pre-coma me would have been more than happy to explain was a simple impossibility,' he writes.

He says he entered a 'place of clouds - big, puffy and pink-white,' filled with butterflies and angel-like creatures that were 'simply different from anything I have known on this planet. They were more advanced. Higher forms.'

In this heavenly realm, he says he heard 'a sound, huge and booming like a glorious chant, came down from above,' providing him with a sense of joy and awe.

A beautiful young woman accompanied him during his stay, 'she was young, and I remember what she looked like in complete detail. She had high cheekbones and deep-blue eyes. Golden brown tresses framed her lovely face.'

Alexander admits his description might sound like something straight out of Hollywood, but to skeptics he says he has a clear sense that is was indeed real and 'not some fantasy, passing and insubstantial.'

After his remarkable experience in 2008, Alexander says the impact has been both on the professional and the spiritual.

Now the scientist has committed his energy to 'investigating the true nature of consciousness and making the fact that we are more, much more, than our physical brains as clear as I can, both to my fellow scientists and to people at large.'

But the self-described Christian-in-name-only, now says his experience with heaven has deepened his understanding of God and strengthened his faith .

'At the very heart of my journey [is this], that we are loved and accepted unconditionally by a God even more grand and unfathomably glorious than the one I’d learned,' he concludes.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z28p8F3OoK
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[Chimera]

[MG Man]

bluey, the man claim he went to heaven, yet found no strippers, nor a beer volcano............and you believe that crap?

[DFC]

bluefete once the man could prove it scientifically then its all good.

Until then its just his weird wet dream.

I had a similar experience.But mine was actual real.
It involved copious amounts of alcohol and strippers.

And i can prove it happened.

[d spike]

People ARE free to believe what they want to believe, even if they are forced. They may SAY that they believe but they do not really believe.

Such a simplistic view is extremely misleading. As I said a short while before, it is an error to over-simplify concepts in order to justify stringent rules.
I have had to work with victims (for want of a better word) of this error, and in guiding them to find balance regarding religion, one comes to realize how absolutely untrue your second sentence is. In your assumption, you fail to take into consideration the human element. People are social creatures, and the need to "belong" is extremely strong. Some accept a religion that is alien to them due to influential family members' conversions, or that of a spouse. The more insecure or immature the person, the greater the latent desire to believe exists - and such a desire is NOT based on Faith, but a simple human need.

You are the one who said that "Faith is a gift", so where is the FREE WILL there?

A very good question. As a fundamentalist, your concept of religious things are very simplified, and (as said before) this easily allows errors to exist. You cannot accept that God can and does allow some to wander OUTSIDE of "religion" - you believe that as "Religion" is good and God is good, then for a person to be free of "religion" would be AGAINST whatever God has in store for them (unless it is because they have left a heathen religion and are destined for "your religion"! )
We will be judged by what we allow our lives to focus on, based on what we are aware of.
This is the reason why people who never read whatever scripture, or heard whichever prophet, will not be damned along the lines of what scripture said or prophet babbled.
The desire to know God is based on Faith - not everyone has such a yearning. To believe that everyone has such a thing is to reveal one's ignorance of the human condition.
FREE WILL is that which allows us to choose, to make decisions. We make decisions based on the information before us.
AFTER ALL THAT MATERIAL YOU SPOUTED ABOUT THE FELLOW WHO WAS QUOTED (AND LATER WENT INSANE) YOU SHOULD PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.
Personally, I thought it just underlined the old adage, a broken clock is right at least twice a day.
What was your argument then? Because he went nuts, then what he said should be taken with a pinch of salt, eh? EH???
With that SAME logic, consider the following (which I have oft said before):
A man hears the words of God being preached. Yet he is aware that the person doing the preaching is a pedophile, or a rapist, or a slave-trader, or a bandit, or a murderer... Can you expect him to truly consider that the words he heard are truth? If that experience is the only one where he comes into direct contact with "Truth", then can he be found wanting for "not believing"?
Can someone who is being led to God by someone else be blamed for discontinuing his journey if he realizes that the one guiding him to truth is false?
(This especially holds true for insecure and immature folk.)

If you think about it deeply....punishment is a reward, though on the negative scale. It is what one would have EARNED through his belief and deeds.

It is a pity that you only realize this after deep thought - that reward can be negative or positive is a very simple concept... but it certainly does explain a lot about the posts that went before.

[AdamB]

People ARE free to believe what they want to believe, even if they are forced. They may SAY that they believe but they do not really believe.

Such a simplistic view is extremely misleading. As I said a short while before, it is an error to over-simplify concepts in order to justify stringent rules.
I have had to work with victims (for want of a better word) of this error, and in guiding them to find balance regarding religion, one comes to realize how absolutely untrue your second sentence is. In your assumption, you fail to take into consideration the human element. People are social creatures, and the need to "belong" is extremely strong. Some accept a religion that is alien to them due to influential family members' conversions, or that of a spouse. The more insecure or immature the person, the greater the latent desire to believe exists - and such a desire is NOT based on Faith, but a simple human need.

You are the one who said that "Faith is a gift", so where is the FREE WILL there?

A very good question. As a fundamentalist, your concept of religious things are very simplified, and (as said before) this easily allows errors to exist. You cannot accept that God can and does allow some to wander OUTSIDE of "religion" - you believe that as "Religion" is good and God is good, then for a person to be free of "religion" would be AGAINST whatever God has in store for them (unless it is because they have left a heathen religion and are destined for "your religion"! )
We will be judged by what we allow our lives to focus on, based on what we are aware of.
This is the reason why people who never read whatever scripture, or heard whichever prophet, will not be damned along the lines of what scripture said or prophet babbled.
The desire to know God is based on Faith - not everyone has such a yearning. To believe that everyone has such a thing is to reveal one's ignorance of the human condition.
FREE WILL is that which allows us to choose, to make decisions. We make decisions based on the information before us.
AFTER ALL THAT MATERIAL YOU SPOUTED ABOUT THE FELLOW WHO WAS QUOTED (AND LATER WENT INSANE) YOU SHOULD PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.
Personally, I thought it just underlined the old adage, a broken clock is right at least twice a day.
What was your argument then? Because he went nuts, then what he said should be taken with a pinch of salt, eh? EH???
With that SAME logic, consider the following (which I have oft said before):
A man hears the words of God being preached. Yet he is aware that the person doing the preaching is a pedophile, or a rapist, or a slave-trader, or a bandit, or a murderer... Can you expect him to truly consider that the words he heard are truth? If that experience is the only one where he comes into direct contact with "Truth", then can he be found wanting for "not believing"?
Can someone who is being led to God by someone else be blamed for discontinuing his journey if he realizes that the one guiding him to truth is false?
(This especially holds true for insecure and immature folk.)

If you think about it deeply....punishment is a reward, though on the negative scale. It is what one would have EARNED through his belief and deeds.

It is a pity that you only realize this after deep thought - that reward can be negative or positive is a very simple concept... but it certainly does explain a lot about the posts that went before.

Two things are evident here.

1. Your need to oppose me (or to have someone with whom to pick a fight).

2. Your need to invent your own "religion".

For a guy who claims to be complex, philosophical and enjoy poetry you sure have a hard time understanding simple concepts that are not poetic in nature.

[AdamB]

Also Dspike,
GOD Almighty guides to the Truth and HE leaves in misguidance some of those who go astray. Some cholars say the meaning may also be that HE misguides them.

You should think about that before you judge the prophets or backbite or slander them.

Your language is very eloquent, thank GOD for that but don't think that HE does not understand your speech and underlying motives.

I hope that's simple enough so that you can comprehend.

[DFC]

So much Gods and Goddesses in this multi religious world, out of all of them there is one infamous god who is completely insane.

And He has his narrow minded , fundamentalist followers causing serious destruction in the world today.

And if that god was subjected to his own rules, then he will surely burn for an eternity.

[AdamB]

Laa ilaaha ill Allaah!

There is no (true) god except THE ONE TRUE GOD!!

[DFC]

Laa ilaaha ill Allaah!

There is no (true) god except THE ONE TRUE GOD!!

Your god is and religion is pretty young, compared to Judaism, Hinduism.
Its like a family , and you're the last child, you learn from your older brothers then proclaim you're and only child and your knowledge came from God.

How silly is that.

Also Muslims believe in Mohammed being the last prophet right?

So what will happen when humanity goes on for another million years?
Salt for we ent.

[AdamB]

Laa ilaaha ill Allaah!

There is no (true) god except THE ONE TRUE GOD!!

Your god is and religion is pretty young, compared to Judaism, Hinduism.
Its like a family , and you're the last child, you learn from your older brothers then proclaim you're and only child and your knowledge came from God.
It's the same god pal, except that the last child has been sent to supercede what came before due to man corrupting the word of GOD.

At work do you follow the last memo or the first memo from a series on the same topic that has been sent by the CEO or GM?
How silly is that.

Also Muslims believe in Mohammed being the last prophet right?
The correct name is Muhammad.

So what will happen when humanity goes on for another million years?
We don't know how long it will go on for but the last revelation / book of GOD has been and will be preserved for all time to come to lead humanity from darkness into light.

Salt for we ent.

Those who choose salt are the silly ones, time will tell.

[DFC]

Laa ilaaha ill Allaah!

There is no (true) god except THE ONE TRUE GOD!!

Your god is and religion is pretty young, compared to Judaism, Hinduism.
Its like a family , and you're the last child, you learn from your older brothers then proclaim you're and only child and your knowledge came from God.
It's the same god pal, except that the last child has been sent to supercede what came before due to man corrupting the word of GOD.

At work do you follow the last memo or the first memo from a series on the same topic that has been sent by the CEO or GM?
How silly is that.

Also Muslims believe in Mohammed being the last prophet right?
The correct name is Muhammad.

So what will happen when humanity goes on for another million years?
We don't know how long it will go on for but the last revelation / book of GOD has been and will be preserved for all time to come to lead humanity from darkness into light.

Salt for we ent.

Those who choose salt are the silly ones, time will tell.

So the original word of god was there and then it got corrupted , and then Muhummad came to preach the "original word of god" or his own thing?

What exactly is the "Original Word of God"
The Pyramid Texts of Ancient Egypt are the oldest known scripture, with depictions of Gods and their laws. The Rig Ved is the oldest known scripture still in use.
These must be the original word of god, everything else is a corruption and perversion of the Original Word.
And i dont see muslims building sphinxes or doing havan, so which means Islam too is a corruption of God's Word.

And right now there are Mullah's and Sheiks preaching their own perversion of the Quran.
Justifying Terrorism and Crimes against women and children.

And this perversion and douglarisation of Islam and the word of god is rampant and will continue for the next million years., with no muslim prophet to come and set things right.

And the rest of Humanity is thankful of that.
We need only prophets of peace and love to come on earth now.

[MG Man]

[color=#FF0000]It's the same god pal, except that the last child has been sent to supercede what came before due to man corrupting the word of GOD.

what evidence do you have that the word of god as stated by hindu or bhuddist scriptures are / were corrupted by man?

[AdamB]

Look iz MG, how yuh mouth feelin?

[maj. tom]

"Arguments that explain everything... explain nothing"
- Christopher Hitchens.

[MG Man]

from page 377...........adam real busy boi

notice how he neatly sidesteps any references made to the fact that there were different versions following the profit's death, and that there wasn't an 'official' version for over a century after he died..........

bit putting that aside, something always puzzled me about a book written by god (via a man), designed to appeal to all men in all ages:
why are there rules in the koran specificaly related to interaction with the prophet? Things like 'when you go to him for his charitable handouts, just take your food and leave, don't waste his important time' etc, why would that be put in the book? Rules only relevant to a few decades while he was alive are no longer relevant....he could have just put signs on his door etc
Why was tuff like that put in the book by god?

From where do you get your information, quote your source? You are grossly misinformed!!

The entire Qur'aan was memorized and recited before the prophet's death.

You are all in need of some optimism and some FAITH!! (Dspike included.)

I ask again, "What source of unbiased information shall be use for verification of these matters?". If we can't agree on one or more, then we just "spinning top in mud."

WHAT SAY YOU?

I quoted my source, then mankind chooses what to reply to, then never comments again...

Chapter 3 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins, Chapter 3

and why not comment on the other part of my post?

Ah busy working right now, in due time, maybe, have patience!!

adamb, defend your perfect book please

[MG Man]

and once again, rather than answer a question related to his own comment:

[color=#FF0000]It's the same god pal, except that the last child has been sent to supercede what came before due to man corrupting the word of GOD.

what evidence do you have that the word of god as stated by hindu or bhuddist scriptures are / were corrupted by man?

he replies with this:

Look iz MG, how yuh mouth feelin?

and we supposed to take him seriously
the profit is disappoint

[AdamB]

Later guys, got things to do now! Insha Allah!

[MG Man]

bahahahahahahahahahaha
right on cue
and you expect us to respect you and your camelfucking beliefs?
Intelligent Muslims everywhere are disappoint

[DFC]

My uncle, is illiterate. He cannot read or write.
One carnival tuesday, he come home drunk and say he saw god and god spoke to him.

It was a funny incident.

Btw, his name is Muhammed.

Coincidence? I think not .
Allah works in mysterious ways.

[DFC]

What is a Perfect Book?

A Perfect book is one that it's writings are clear, precise and cannot be ambiguous or shrouded in some mystery and doesn't contradict itself.
A perfect book, is so clearly written and stated that no misconception or doubt is created in the mind of the reader.
A perfect book doesn't confuse the reader .


AdamB , Do not claim your book is Perfect and your Religion is perfect, because it is far, very far from it.

The evidence is overwhelming.

[Kasey]

A perfect book WILL make the person who reads it, understand it fully. If one misreads it, or refuses to accept it, then it is not perfect. If a perfect book is read, there will not be different sects following it, there will be no violence spawning from it, there will be no other book competing with it, humanity WILL follow.

[MG Man]

it is truly remarkable to me that AdamB will drop prolific posts, copied, pasted and on occasion, written by himself, and flood page after page of condemnation on everyone else's beliefs, while citing evidence to prove his religion right, and all others wrong.........yet flees like a coward when challenged with the simplest of questions that he cannot answer via wikipedia, pamphlets or the counsel of his elders.....
It is no wonder that islam has earned the revulsion hate and misunderstanding of the world at large, when these kinds of people are its strongest proponents..........

[AdamB]

A perfect book WILL make the person who reads it, understand it fully. If one misreads it, or refuses to accept it, then it is not perfect.

Kasey,
Have you read it? Who determines what is a "PERFECT BOOK"? Is GOD in need of us to tell HIM? Certainly not. The book itself tells you:

Ch3:7 It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari).

Ch 9:124 And whenever there comes down a Surah (chapter from the Qur'an), some of them (hypocrites) say: "Which of you has had his Faith increased by it?" As for those who believe, it has increased their Faith, and they rejoice.

125 But as for those in whose hearts is a disease (of doubt, disbelief and hypocrisy), it will add suspicion and doubt to their suspicion, disbelief and doubt; and they die while they are disbelievers.

There is wisdom in it not causing people to FOLLOW like robots, which is to separate the worthy from the unworthy (in whose hearts is deviation and disbelief).

If a perfect book is read, there will not be different sects following it, there will be no violence spawning from it, there will be no other book competing with it, humanity WILL follow.

According to this logic, then ALL religious books (except maybe Dspike's) are imperfect since there are different sects, violence, other books competing with it and ALL humanity who reads them DO NOT follow (some or the majority ALWAYS reject it).

[AdamB]

it is truly remarkable to me that AdamB will drop prolific posts, copied, pasted and on occasion, written by himself, and flood page after page of condemnation on everyone else's beliefs, while citing evidence to prove his religion right, and all others wrong.........yet flees like a coward when challenged with the simplest of questions that he cannot answer via wikipedia, pamphlets or the counsel of his elders.....
It is no wonder that islam has earned the revulsion hate and misunderstanding of the world at large, when these kinds of people are its strongest proponents..........

ah tell yuh have patience, uncle!!

[MG Man]

[lurker]I thought you had things to do?[/lurker]

[DFC]