The Religion Discussion

[sensiman]

nah i talking about the parts where they justify murder in the name of God

Yeah, not much different from real life, just that it's done on a bigger scale

[d spike]

You clearly have me mistaken for someone else.
First of all, I don't accept scripture literally - that goes for ANY scripture.
So you accept it the way that YOU ALONE want to accept it?

In your blindness as a literalist and a fundamentalist, you fail to realise that many religious do not consider the literal swallowing of scripture as being required. It is good in your eyes and you practice it - very good. However the path you choose may not be the path for others. I am not alone - in fact I am among the majority. This method of accepting scripture is standard within orthodox Christianity - though I am sure that mentioning this is just going to encourage you to spout nonsense about who is going to hell at this point.

I consider that God, in his infinite wisdom, has revealed truth to men through the ages... and NOT to JUST ONE GROUP.
Muslims "consider" the same, we do not differ except that we say (with evidence from GOD that we accept and submit to) that MAN has changed and "corrupted" these "revelations" from what you refer to as "revealed truth".

Your only "proof" that "God" said such a thing is probably written in the same scripture that has been shown to claim otherwise!
And when I brought this to your attention, you revealed your ignorance of those world-renowned Koranic scholars whose names precede the Koranic quotations I posted... This clearly showed anyone who studies scripture that you have NO idea about any studies done involving YOUR OWN scripture - except whatever hand-outs or pamphlets you seem to have been forced to read...

(You ASSUME that I don't accept the Koran as scripture, but that is due to your expectations of a fellow believer - NOT WHAT I CONSIDER SCRIPTURE.)

True BELIEF comprises ACCEPTANCE and SUBMISSION, so if you "say" that you accept something (scripture) but have not submitted to it, THEN YOU HAVE NOT REALLY BELIEVED.

Clearly we differ on what "submission" means as it relates to how we live and view others. Forcing my beliefs down the throats of others, while deriding their religions is not my idea of submission.

I refuse to accept that God would let His beloved Creation go to hell in a hand-basket, and just nurse a small group towards "salvation" or whatever (This just creates the "Mammy spoil-chile" syndrome that plagues our collective understanding of the divine.)

Then you REJECT the revelation of GOD because YOU know better than GOD what HE has created, intended and willed for man to choose from and it's consequences. YOU DENY!! YOU DISBELIEVE!!

You misunderstand me. In your effort to burn my flag, you are not paying attention to what I am saying. Read it again. God reveals Himself, but NOT ONLY TO ONE GROUP to the detriment of ALL ELSE.

Throughout the ages, man has had truth revealed to him... this was recorded for the BENEFIT of generations - not their detriment. If people wish to twist their religious beliefs to their own selfish and greedy endsthen that is the fault of their own selfishness - not their religion.

Just as YOU say that you have done. Oh sorry, this is a discussion and you don't have to expose your personal beliefs. THAT'S CONVENIENT!!

Look who is talking!!!! You just want me to say what religion I belong to, in order for you to start stoning your preset targets.
If I say I am Hindu, you will start howling about idols and the caste-system.
If I say I am Buddhist, you will start howling about reincarnation.
If I say I am Catholic, you will start howling about the Pope and pedophile priests.
If I say I am Anglican, you will start howling about Henry VIII.
If I say I am Rastafarian, you will start howling about weed.
Discuss what I say, not what you think I believe.

The only criteria for acceptance that exists is the one you create in your own empty head... unless of course, one's head is SO empty that one requires OTHERS to build such criteria for one to cling to...

Is this not what YOU have done? What you have said above??

We discuss matters and will inevitably differ but you have made it clear that YOUR way is the way of insults and accusations??!!! Is that what your LORD Jesus taught you? Is that his example that you follow?

Again, look who is talking about insults and accusations? Your memory fails you with regards to remarks made by you to Kasey and many others? (I forget, you don't look back at posts that have gone before...)

YOU DISCUSS MATTERS???? All you seem to be doing is sneering at any religion that isn't Islam, as well as sneer at Islamic religions that don't align themselves with your favoured brand of Islam.
That ISN'T discussing.

As far as any example set by Jesus is concerned, I do believe he called the folk who felt superior because of their inflated opinion of their religious beliefs SNAKES AND HYPOCRITES.

Learn to read what is written plainly, before you attempt to write plainly - otherwise you appear most plainly foolish in the eyes of those who can.

You forgot to comment on this part which followed:
YOU PREFER (OR IT HAS BECOME THE NORM) TO FOLLOW THE MISGUIDED DESIRES OF THOSE WHO "CORRECT THE WORD OF GOD"!!

That was YOUR opinion. You are free to hold that point of view.

I did not intend to go into a detailed theological debate about the above, I simply pointed out what is written in the bible that is PLAIN for all to see. You can twist and turn all you want. GOD knows best and knows the truth.

And I simply pointed out your MISTAKE BASED ON YOUR BIAS. THIS ERROR OF YOURS IS EVEN PLAINER TO SEE.
And that ISN'T a theological debate. Don't reveal your ignorance so blatantly. Go learn what "theology" is, and how it differs from discussing scripture.

The christian religion rejects a man having more than one wife, yet one of GOD's greatest prophets had more than one wife. So did he sin? Or is it that man has the choice in some matters to do what is customary for the people to do (ignoring or changing the laws set out by GOD)?

You really must stop being silly. Christianity has NOTHING to do with it. Christianity is based on the teachings of him who was called the Christ. Abraham lived hundreds of years before. His culture was different from those who came much later.
What's next, slavery? Concubinage? Grow up.

[AdamB]

He has been spot on in getting his point accross:
1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont take the scriptures literally, or believe without proof. Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.
3) Have some degree of respect for other people's belief, or go and live in a cave.

Keep fooling yourself and await a better life when you are reincarnated. I am not sorry if the TRUTH offends and BTW WHAT DEGREE OF RESPECT HAS BEEN SHOWN HERE FOR MY RELIGION / BELIEF AND MY PROPHET??

Dont take the scriptures literally - This really means "Follow what I tell you to follow, worship what I tell you to worship, believe what I tell you to believe!!"

1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont believe without proof.

Putting these two together means: Since there is no firm proof, don't believe in any religion. DISBELIEVE THEN?!!!

Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.

All religions plus atheists teach good lessons, this is not the point. The point is knowing who GOD REALLY IS and what HE defines as GOOD!! Also, knowing what HE has legislated for man to live by in the current time we live in. THE LAST MEMO, IF YOU WERE.

[MG Man]

the sad thing dude, is when you die and your consciousness ceases to exist, you won't even realize you were wrong

[AdamB]

The really sad thing MG is after you die and your consciousness does NOT cease to exist AND the angels rip your soul out from your body AND you FEEL all the PAIN that accompanies it, then you will kick yourself and say "Boy ah shuda listen to AdamB!"

Certainly your tentative LOSS will be greater than mine. Don't you agree? (Hypothetically)

[MG Man]

and you know this for a fact HOW?

also, I plan to have belgroves incinerate me so no body to rip my soul out of

[AdamB]

and you know this for a fact HOW?

also, I plan to have belgroves incinerate me so no body to rip my soul out of

And you know the converse for a fact, HOW?

Doh worry, there's a contingency plan for cremation, no one will escape!!

[MG Man]

and you know this for a fact how?

[AdamB]

and you know this for a fact how?

Doh worry about it, LIVE IT UP!!

JUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU WILL DIE!!

Maybe one day man will evolve to live as long as the sun!!! So there is hope...

[d spike]

The really sad thing MG is after you die and your consciousness does NOT cease to exist AND the angels rip your soul out from your body AND you FEEL all the PAIN that accompanies it, then you will kick yourself and say "Boy ah shuda listen to AdamB!"

Certainly you tentative LOSS will be greater than mine. Don't you agree? (Hypothetically)

So what? If you are right, then that would be HIS loss, not yours... so why are you getting so worked up about it? Why the need for all the aggression and sneering?
Simply because this is the way insecure folk reaffirm themselves. Do Islam a favour and stop this foolish line of thought (for want of a better word).
Hypothetically, you could be right... but so could he. Neither of you can prove what happens after we die. The only difference between you is that your view is supported by yards of writings put together by a group of holy fogeys, and much of that writing is supposition held together by contradictions - and the same thing is true for ALL religions that use scripture.
I am not going into the multiple contradictions that the Koran contains for the following reasons:
You will get an excuse to be sidetracked from the issue at hand;
There are multiple sites on the internet that explain such things in detail;
It can be seen as an "insult" to Islam, and insulting religions is NOT what I am about (perhaps when a more mature Muslim enters the discussion);
With the former point in mind, my last reason is I have too much respect for sMASH - and your earlier put-down of him and his views of your supposedly common religion has clearly been negated by all the hate and ignorance that you have spewed since then.

If you wish to concern yourself about bringing people to God, then you are going about it the WRONG WAY. You don't know the saying: "Molasses attracts more flies than vinegar"?

God can only judge a man based on what he knows and believes, and what choices he made based on those beliefs. Can God judge a man wrongly?
If a pastor preaches the truth, but he hurts people, lies, cheats, steals, gambles, screws little children... would you SERIOUSLY believe his "truth" is real?
You come here, sneer at what is said by others, spew insults and hate - the only person who supports you is a mindless fanatic who clearly doesn't possess original thought - and YOU REALLY THINK FOLKS WILL BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE THE MESSAGE OF PEACE????

[MG Man]

and you know this for a fact how?

Doh worry about it, LIVE IT UP!!

JUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU WILL DIE!!

Maybe one day man will evolve to live as long as the sun!!! So there is hope...

the prospect of dying does not bother me
I ask again, you know about the angels ripping away my soul is fact HOW?

[AdamB]

and you know this for a fact how?

Doh worry about it, LIVE IT UP!!

JUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU WILL DIE!!

Maybe one day man will evolve to live as long as the sun!!! So there is hope...

the prospect of dying does not bother me
I ask again, you know about the angels ripping away my soul is fact HOW?

Why ask? You already have the answers!! So don't be "bothered". However what you reveal and what you conceal is known!!

[MG Man]

and you know this for a fact how?

Doh worry about it, LIVE IT UP!!

JUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU WILL DIE!!

Maybe one day man will evolve to live as long as the sun!!! So there is hope...

the prospect of dying does not bother me
I ask again, you know about the angels ripping away my soul is fact HOW?

Why ask? You already have the answers!! So don't be "bothered". However what you reveal and what you conceal is known!!

I ask because you blatantly state that I am wrong and you are right. If you can back up your statement with verifiable evidence or proof, I will reconsider my position and accept what you are saying as verifiable truth

[Kasey]

He has been spot on in getting his point accross:
1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont take the scriptures literally, or believe without proof. Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.
3) Have some degree of respect for other people's belief, or go and live in a cave.

Keep fooling yourself and await a better life when you are reincarnated. Why Say I am fooling my self? Where's ur proof??I am not sorry if the TRUTH offendsI get that ur not sorry, LOUD AND CLEAR and BTW WHAT DEGREE OF RESPECT HAS BEEN SHOWN HERE FOR MY RELIGION / BELIEF AND MY PROPHET?? What does this have to do with what I said? So ur saying, JUST BECAUSE you FEEL that ur beliefs are being trampled upon, that it justifies ur damnation of other's beliefs?

Dont take the scriptures literally - This really means "Follow what I tell you to follow, worship what I tell you to worship, believe what I tell you to believe!!"Please, for goodnes sake, give educated responses!!!

1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont believe without proof.

Putting these two together means: Since there is no firm proof, don't believe in any religion. DISBELIEVE THEN?!!! I see u missed the the class in primary school when they taught how to put things together
Just because one does not believ, it does not mean that they disbelieve. Do you HATE all the foods you dont love? Or just neutral for some?


Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.

All religions plus atheists teach good lessons, this is not the point. YES IT IS!!!!
The point is knowing who GOD REALLY IS and what HE defines as GOOD!!This is not the point. Puny human beings can never grasp the infinite-ness of God. If you think you can know ur God with your limitations, then your God is limited
Also, knowing what HE has legislated for man to live by in the current time we live in. THE LAST MEMO, IF YOU WERE.AN EDITED MEMO CHOSEN FROM A FEW U MEAN??

[d spike]

He has been spot on in getting his point accross:
1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont take the scriptures literally, or believe without proof. Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.
3) Have some degree of respect for other people's belief, or go and live in a cave.

Keep fooling yourself and await a better life when you are reincarnated. I am not sorry if the TRUTH offends and BTW WHAT DEGREE OF RESPECT HAS BEEN SHOWN HERE FOR MY RELIGION / BELIEF AND MY PROPHET??

Don't get your knickers in a twist. All religions have got the same heaping quantity of disrespect in this thread. Yours isn't any more or less special... but you wouldn't know that, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO LOOK BACK AND SEE WHAT WAS SAID BEFORE, RIGHT??????
Folks have passed through here and said all sorts of things about each and every belief being discussed... but this is the Ol' talk forum on Trinituner - don't come to play in this sand-box, then complain about sand in your britches!
Furthermore, most of the disparaging things that were said were triggered by your own unbecoming remarks. For that matter, you can easily be asked by all those you sneered at, WHAT DEGREE OF RESPECT HAS BEEN SHOWN HERE FOR MY RELIGION / BELIEF AND MY PROPHET?? (As far as the modern day Christians are concerned, Jesus said his words would never pass away - yuh calling de man a liar? Dat is disrespectful, mistah )

Dont take the scriptures literally - This really means "Follow what I tell you to follow, worship what I tell you to worship, believe what I tell you to believe!!"

1) That no religion can prove without a doubt that it is the true religion.
2) Dont believe without proof.

Putting these two together means: Since there is no firm proof, don't believe in any religion. DISBELIEVE THEN?!!!

While I applaud Kasey's enthusiasm, and am grateful for his brevity, I never said "Don't believe without proof." Belief, by its very nature, requires Faith. Proof would then cause that "belief" to become "knowledge".

Being a literalist, you cannot conceive of someone appreciating scripture for what it IS - writings containing truth. Accept this inability and move on.
I cannot understand how an atomic bomb actually works, and with the items I own, I will never be able to build one. (I can do some serious damage in a room full of people about thirty minutes after eating boiled shatigne, but an atomic bomb is out of my league.) I accept this lack of understanding in my life and I move on. I certainly don't go around snarling and sneering at nuclear physicists.

Believe in the good lessons they ALL teach.

All religions plus atheists teach good lessons, this is not the point. The point is knowing who GOD REALLY IS and what HE defines as GOOD!! Also, knowing what HE has legislated for man to live by in the current time we live in. THE LAST MEMO, IF YOU WERE.

That is YOUR opinion.

But let us consider it, in order for you to realise why his point actually agrees with yours. (Unless, of course, you are just parroting words you have no idea what they mean...)
Of what USE is this "knowledge" you speak of?
If God is most singular and divine, then why is "knowing who he really is" so important? Is there a possibility one might confuse him with another God?
"What he defines as GOOD" is an excellent point... but isn't that what the lessons are about? The Zoroastrians teach: "Praise aloud the thought well thought, the word well spoken and the deed well done." I doubt Megadoc is one of their flock, but I am sure he will agree that this statement is indeed good and right.
The REASON you acquire knowledge is for you to ACT ON IT. Thus it is that one's ACTIONS, THAT WHICH WE CAN CONSIDER RIGHT OR WRONG, is the result of our Faith. Instead of judging the faiths of others, focus on their actions. By its fruits can one judge the tree.

The same lessons that Kasey pays attention to, will teach him concepts on which he will then base his choices.

You need to ask yourself, "Why am I here?" If you believe in God, then certainly you believe in His having a reason to place you here on this ball of rock.
If you think that your only reason for existence is to pass a test, or swell the ego of an omniscient being, then that doesn't say much for your concept of God. You haven't matured past the point of a pre-adolescent where faith is concerned.

[AdamB]

^^So far IMHO, there is nothing I have read here that dspike was not spot on. The readers of the thread can obviously see via certain individuals writings who is the deluded one, and who are the objective ones here.
Vote anyone?

You shoulda take dis poll to d UNC rally...LOL

[MG Man]

and you know this for a fact how?

Doh worry about it, LIVE IT UP!!

JUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU WILL DIE!!

Maybe one day man will evolve to live as long as the sun!!! So there is hope...

the prospect of dying does not bother me
I ask again, you know about the angels ripping away my soul is fact HOW?

Why ask? You already have the answers!! So don't be "bothered". However what you reveal and what you conceal is known!!

I ask because you blatantly state that I am wrong and you are right. If you can back up your statement with verifiable evidence or proof, I will reconsider my position and accept what you are saying as verifiable truth

[susan]

right now looking for a sign that god is real, someone stole my dog in marabella, the info that i got was that an old man in a van took her to princes town. she is a brown pompek, with a purple collar, she has a limp in her right back leg and answers to the name princess.been praying and trying to get her back since last wednesday and now i'm losing hope, if god is real he would bring her back to me right? anyway if anyone has info that could help me get her back i would be eternally grateful, small reward offered

[MG Man]

you for real?
God can't help the parents of children who are kidnapped and sold as sex slaves........what makes you think he has time for you and a dog?
If your info is detailed enough to tell you an old man in a van took the dog to princes town (learn to spell Princes Town properly pls), shouldn't you be pressing your source for more info?
I lost a pomeranian some years back....sucky but what can you do...........I learned not to train my dogs to be so friendly that they will go off with anyone. Try that sheit now and my dogs will rip you to shreds
Good luck tho but if your dog is of the friendly sort, she has a new home now

[Kasey]

right now looking for a sign that god is real, someone stole my dog in marabella, the info that i got was that an old man in a van took her to princes town. she is a brown pompek, with a purple collar, she has a limp in her right back leg and answers to the name princess.been praying and trying to get her back since last wednesday and now i'm losing hope, if god is real he would bring her back to me right? anyway if anyone has info that could help me get her back i would be eternally grateful, small reward offered

Where did you get that detailed info like destination etc?

[susan]

through neighbors of the man's girlfriend who lives in marabella but thats all the info they are willing to give me

[megadoc1]

hello susan!

[Dizzy28]

right now looking for a sign that god is real, someone stole my dog in marabella, the info that i got was that an old man in a van took her to princes town. she is a brown pompek, with a purple collar, she has a limp in her right back leg and answers to the name princess.been praying and trying to get her back since last wednesday and now i'm losing hope, if god is real he would bring her back to me right? anyway if anyone has info that could help me get her back i would be eternally grateful, small reward offered

God in all his splendor has bigger plans for your dog. Don't question it for his will shall be done!!

[susan]

thank you so much MG Man, a lesson in vocabulary, just what I needed!

[susan]

thank you Dizzy28, but i can't help but worry about her

[maj. tom]

your dog is in a better place now.

[AdamB]

right now looking for a sign that god is real, someone stole my dog in marabella, the info that i got was that an old man in a van took her to princes town. she is a brown pompek, with a purple collar, she has a limp in her right back leg and answers to the name princess.been praying and trying to get her back since last wednesday and now i'm losing hope, if god is real he would bring her back to me right? anyway if anyone has info that could help me get her back i would be eternally grateful, small reward offered

^^^Joined Tuner this morning to look for a dog! Call TTSPCA and adopt one. It may be that GOD is testing your faith. You have to be careful of the things to which you become attached. Will you really let your hereafter be determined by this event? Bad things happen, accidents happen. The dog would not have lived forever. I had a pompek also who got mauled by 2 other dogs one of which was a pitbull. He was the best dog in the world to my family. Get over it and move on. This world was created with a transitory characteristic/nature.

[RBphoto]

Contact Tr1ad... the Chineese connection has an interest in your dog. Woo Fing chineese resteraunt by Endeavour flyover will do whatever they can to get him.

[AdamB]

Contact Tr1ad... the Chineese connection has an interest in your dog. Woo Fing chineese resteraunt by Endeavour flyover will do whatever they can to get him.

how much meat yuh go get from a pompek?

[MG Man]

^^^Joined Tuner this morning to look for a dog! Call TTSPCA and adopt one. It may be that GOD is testing your faith. You have to be careful of the things to which you become attached. Will you really let your hereafter be determined by this event? Bad things happen, accidents happen. The dog would not have lived forever. I had a pompek also who got mauled by 2 other dogs one of which was a pitbull. He was the best dog in the world to my family. Get over it and move on. This world was created with a transitory characteristic/nature.

and here I thought I had the market for asshoal response to her
take win buddy