The Religion Discussion

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ conspiracy theory that is not even based on actual theory!

Jesus spent a lot of time with prostitutes, thieves and tax collectors who the people saw as evil. This association bothered simple minds because they did not understand why.

[Red Fraction]

I expected that sort of reply from you Duane. I fail to see the conspiracy on what i posted. Just now you will say jesuits are a conspiracy Theory and they don't exist cause there's no proof. And they arent. Responsible for destroying the world trade centers

[AdamB]

You had me at:

Adamb I fail to see

[AdamB]

^ conspiracy theory that is not even based on actual theory!

Jesus spent a lot of time with prostitutes, thieves and tax collectors who the people saw as evil. This association bothered simple minds because they did not understand why.

Duane believes in Jesus?? In the bible?

[AdamB]

Allaah is the Truth, and what they supplicate to other than Him is false and invalid.

I hope you didn't pay too much for that pamphlet.

THIS ALONE IS MORE VALUABLE THAT THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING IT CONTAINS!!!

[Red Fraction]

Adamb read the whole passage not what you think should be read alone.

Which is more important the chickenor the egg?
What is more important the creature or the creator?

Also adamb muhammad is dead, can Allah save you?
What proof do you have that Allah provides for all. By reading excerpts from the Koran, one would and is lead to believe that Allah is a very biased and selfish and murderous tyrant.
How can Allah create everything, and in the same breath want to destroy it? I would think that a creator would love his creation unconditionally?

You seem like youre well learnt in your reading, so answer me from your brain knowledge please and not Wikipedia.

[AdamB]

Adamb can you prove for a fact that Jesus was not perfect.
Mark 11:12-14
Jesus and the Fig Tree
12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: 13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. 14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mark 13:32
No One Knows the Day or Hour
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


And why are you only interested with this judgement day.
We live our lives in hope of a goodly reward in the Hereafter. Judgment Day is the beginning of the life of the Hereafter. It is the Last Day, literally!! The result of the Judgment will determine our eternal life in paradise or Hellfire. So we need to "put our blinkers on" and focus on the TARGET AND WHAT TRULY MATTERS.
Question adamb

Jaad reading sometime again wrt worshipping God when he made the tabernacle in the wilderness. He made it in a way that when the high priests enter in, their backs were against the sun. For the same reason as to avoid the temptation of sun worship.

Can you explain to me why do Muslims bow toward the rising sun or what have you? I remember asking one that same question, and his response left me like "wait what???"

Muslims all over the earth face in the DIRECTION towards the HOLY KAABA in Mecca for the purpose of UNITY ONLY. The Kaaba is not worshipped, it is a house of worship itself.

In the West, muslims would face East but we do not perform our prayers during the time period from sunrise to midday.

In the East, muslims would face West. In the North, muslims would face South and in the South, face North.

[AdamB]

What is more important the creature or the creator? The Creator

Also adamb muhammad is dead, can Allah save you? YES, can the christian "GOD the Father save you? If no, why not?" He is the same GOD as ALLAH.
What proof do you have that Allah provides for all.
Which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?"

By reading excerpts from the Koran, one would and is lead to believe that Allah is a very biased and selfish and murderous tyrant.
If you read the Old Testament, you will find the same. HE DOES WITH HIS CREATION WHATEVER HE WILLS BUT NOT WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND JUSTICE!!

How can Allah create everything, and in the same breath want to destroy it? I would think that a creator would love his creation unconditionally?
He does both, punishes and rewards, hates and loves, created evil and good, hellfire and paradise, withholds and gives freely but NOT WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND JUSTICE!!

If you say what specifically you may be referring to, then I may be able to answer specifically on that issue.

You seem like youre well learnt in your reading, so answer me from your brain knowledge please and not Wikipedia.

[Dizzy28]

So if I know a girl and she last name is Mohammed but she is a real baddest - sharing punkie left right and centre, liming on the avenue with a pack a man all the time and thing...............is that Blasphemous to the prophet?

[AdamB]

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Which book is being referred to here? The writer of any one book of the bible could not have been referring to the whole of the bible? Is it specific to only one book (chapter) or the whole bible because something like this might be applicable to all books?

How then can you account for the Catholic Bible having 73 books and the protestant bible 66 books? 73-66=7 books outcast in the latter or 7 books added to the former?

[AdamB]

I expected that sort of reply from you Duane. I fail to see the conspiracy on what i posted. Just now you will say jesuits are a conspiracy Theory and they don't exist cause there's no proof. And they arent. Responsible for destroying the world trade centers

There's a conspiracy theory that the Jew who owned the world trade center buildings did it for the insurance money. There were "detonations" heard and seen in video from each floor (maybe not all). He got the value of both buildings TWICE because there were two separate attacks, so two claims. DOUBLE WHAMMY!!

[AdamB]

And what is the significance of the moon and star in islam

IT IS NOT RELIGIOUSLY LINKED.

There are 5 different rules of obligation: the obligatory, prohibited, recommended, disliked and permissible (no reward, no punishment).
A national flag or symbol like the moon and star that is NOT WORSHIPPED would be classed as permissible, meaning that there would neither be a reward nor a punishment linked to it's use.

“Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.” (Qur’an, 41: 37). LOng story short, it is not associated with any form of worship and holds absolutely no significance pertaining to the religion of Islam.

Islam was perfected over 1400 yrs ago by Allah for muslims and those who recognize this and are free to enter the faith. Al-Mâ’idah – Surah 5. The Table Spread [5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

The moon and star did not exist then as a symbol, so it's existence now, if it had been of any significance pertaining to worship, would be an innovation and therefore not accepted by Allah. This is a general rule as all innovation are misguidance, and all misguidance will lead to the fire of hell.

This is the position in Islam, for your appreciation.

[AdamB]

Also adamb the pope in the Vatican said recently that their are only two religions Catholics and Christians. What are your views on his statement?

The pope needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" for a ROMAN CATHOLIC MAGAZINE said a couple of yrs ago that THE NUMBER OF MUSLIMS SURPASSED THE NUMBER OF CATHOLICS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

http://www.google.tt/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=n ... ewWSMe6gow

Anyway, we don't give a rat's a** about what the pope says. He has no validity for what they ascribe him to be. No one needs an intercessor to GOD in this life (the Hereafter is another story), we can ALL raise our hands and request whatever we want of GOD DIRECTLY!!

[bluefete]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

[AdamB]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Possibly they enter the (church) door already with ulterior motives, mainly for SHOW and in search of FLESH!!

[MG Man]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

you sillybilly

[bluefete]

How then can you account for the Catholic Bible having 73 books and the protestant bible 66 books? 73-66=7 books outcast in the latter or 7 books added to the former?

That is a question I have never been able to get a good answer to.

Plus the Ethiopians have their own Bible with a total of 81 books in all.

But, notwithstanding, the basic message is the same in all Bibles.

[bluefete]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

you sillybilly

[AdamB]

How then can you account for the Catholic Bible having 73 books and the protestant bible 66 books? 73-66=7 books outcast in the latter or 7 books added to the former?

That is a question I have never been able to get a good answer to.

Plus the Ethiopians have their own Bible with a total of 81 books in all.

But, notwithstanding, the basic message is the same in all Bibles.

No where in the bible does it say that the individual books were to be compiled together but it probably SEEMED GOOD TO SOMEONE.

Wonder when was the first time the books were put together and called bible? Never really checked that out.

[MG Man]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

[AdamB]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

you sillybilly

Like yuh have files on MG?

There's a conspiracy theory that PAUL and his cohorts hijacked Jesus' religion, so the question is : FOLLOW JESUS OR FOLLOW PAUL?

[bluefete]

18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Dspike can you with unbiased thinking explain the above please. I'd like to know what are your thoughts?

I note you use the KJV. When it comes to scholastic studying of scripture, I'm afraid this version with its archaic idiom and improper translations doesn't cut it at all. Anyone who swears by this version alone deserves whatever AdamB tells them regarding "tampered scripture"...

The Book of Isaiah is actually produced by at least three fellows, as the writing style changes, and the writing spans from the eighth century BC right into the sixth century BC.
These verses are written by the "original" Isaiah, also called "Proto-Isaiah". They serve as part of his reference to the danger posed by the late eighth century expansion of Assyria into the Kingdom of Judah. They are part of his prophesy of judgment against God's people, which implies that their covenant with God cannot protect them when they have broken it by idolatry and other sins.
These six verses are from chapter five and are aimed at the sinful folk who have willingly loaded themselves with the burden of their transgressions. These folk challenge God brazenly, almost taunting Him to stick to His covenant and zap the enemy... all the while perverting moral standards and practicing injustice and bribery. They think they are wise enough to handle any situation and reject a humble dependence on God (a clear shot at Ahaz ) and clearly spend a lot of time boasting about their strength while liming at bars - though their only strength seems to be lifting glasses.

You need to look at the historical setting:
Assyria was the super-power at the time, and Judah had just refused to join Israel and Syria in a revolt against Assyria. These two countries then threatened invasion of Judah. Isaiah advised Judah's king, Ahaz, to seek God's protection, but Ahaz asked the Assyrians for protection instead, thus making Judah an Assyrian vassal. (Assyria later thrashed and trashed Israel.) Isaiah didn't approve of this belittling of his country, and proceeded to foretell the results of the error of kowtowing to goyim Assyrians.

When I read it "Isaiah" 5 these words remind me of the world we are living in right now. But this was in isreals time. So why does it bear striking accracy to now.?

Simply because of the human condition - "All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", to quote Paul. Because of our love to err, we fall, repeatedly. Due to this, the errors of the past often repeat themselves. (Take this thread as an example. Do you know why it is so bloody long? Because people keep saying the same old things, bringing up the same old arguments over and over and over... and to just look back at what went before is so simple it is laughable. Some of us just quote ourselves ad nauseum to deal with the monotony of it all. ) History is full of Ahazes and Isaiahs... and to consider these ancient writings (whose focus is quite clear) as a specific modern prophecy is yet another foolish error that is oft repeated...

Dspike take a look at this taken from Daniel "I am quoting from the good book because it is relevant"

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Do you know who is the ancient of days?
And do you know which is the fourth kingdom being spoken about in this text?

I fail to see how it is relevant.
Daniel is a remarkable book, written partly in Aramaic and partly in Hebrew. It is written in the apocalyptic style which was popular between 200 BC and 100 AD - unfortunately, many literalists/fundamentalists are convinced that it hides prophecies of modern and future events, simply because they ignore the idiom of the time, the focus of the author and his concerns.
While the book seems to be set in sixth century BC Babylonian times, it is actually a lot newer - the second century BC, to be precise.
The traditional stories of the first six chapters are legends older than the visions of the later chapters. Those visions were written by an anonymous author in the Maccabean era, who compiled the legends with the visions as one book, in the second century BC.
The visions describe the national crisis that occurred under Antiochus IV Epiphanes, a Seleucid king who attempted to introduce Hellenistic religious practices, including the worship of idols, into the temple and the Jewish religion more generally, sparking outrage from the more traditional holy rollers - such as the writer who produced Daniel.

Within the foreign royal court, the hero and his friends survive all sorts of dangers, rising to the highest positions in the land. Daniel foretells both the individual punishment of the Babylonian kings and the overthrow of their empire. Then Daniel has visions, which culminate in frightening depictions of a powerful king who, like the Babylonian rulers of the court tales, attacks Israel, defiles the temple, and incurs divine judgment.

Now, will you explain the link you claim exists between Catholicism and Islam? (I hope it isn't that old story about the priest who Muhammad used to chat with... That has never seemed more than a tale, I'm afraid.)

Spikey: This is some good stuff here. Interesting historical reading.

[AdamB]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

MG,
Yuh stuck in first gear...

[MG Man]

you stuck in delusion

[bluefete]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

MG,
Yuh stuck in first gear...

Well truth be told, Islam may have been formalised about 1400 years ago but it may have started waaayyy longer than that when Ishmael was kicked out by his Father Abraham and sent into the desert to live with his mother.

[AdamB]

you stuck in delusion

happy with my delusion.

Delusion = Islam + Allaah as my LORD!!

Trying to figure out what is your motivation here, what are you looking for??

[AdamB]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

MG,
Yuh stuck in first gear...

Well truth be told, Islam may have been formalised about 1400 years ago but it may have started waaayyy longer than that when Ishmael was kicked out by his Father Abraham and sent into the desert to live with his mother.

He wasn't "kicked out", Abraham was a prophet and GOD commanded him to do that.

[MG Man]

you stuck in delusion

happy with my delusion.

Delusion = Islam + Allaah as my LORD!!

Trying to figure out what is your motivation here, what are you looking for??

u eh figure it out yet?

[bluefete]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

MG,
Yuh stuck in first gear...

Well truth be told, Islam may have been formalised about 1400 years ago but it may have started waaayyy longer than that when Ishmael was kicked out by his Father Abraham and sent into the desert to live with his mother.

He wasn't "kicked out", Abraham was a prophet and GOD commanded him to do that.

True. But wasn't the wife jealous over ... oh never mind!

[AdamB]

where is evidence if islam 2,500 years ago?

MG,
Yuh stuck in first gear...

Well truth be told, Islam may have been formalised about 1400 years ago but it may have started waaayyy longer than that when Ishmael was kicked out by his Father Abraham and sent into the desert to live with his mother.

He wasn't "kicked out", Abraham was a prophet and GOD commanded him to do that.

True. But wasn't the wife jealous over ... oh never mind!

Wives are jealous, yes...but Hagar was also his wife, that's what the bible says "he took her AS HIS WIFE."