The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

adam b can you address this please?

I'm sorry to say this guys, but the funniest thing is Christians debating based on scriptures that have been corrupted by man, sorry, bible scholars.

But according to the Koran, there was nothing wrong with those very Christian scriptures when the Koran was written... and those Christian scriptures were more than 300 years old at the time. They haven't changed since then, except to be translated, and those 300 year-old scriptures are still with us.

...so what do you base that nonsensical remark on?

In due time, when I have the time to deal with it properly.

The Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad over a period of time from the year 610 to 622 CE.

If you are saying that the christian scriptures were 300yrs old at the time, then they were written 300yrs after Jesus!

Do you have accurate records of what transpired from scrolls and their "preservation" between Jesus' time up to 300CE? Also, who wrote the gospels and everything else that comprises the New Testament? And it's validity and conformance with the teachings of Jesus?

[megadoc1]

adam b can you address this please?

I'm sorry to say this guys, but the funniest thing is Christians debating based on scriptures that have been corrupted by man, sorry, bible scholars.

But according to the Koran, there was nothing wrong with those very Christian scriptures when the Koran was written... and those Christian scriptures were more than 300 years old at the time. They haven't changed since then, except to be translated, and those 300 year-old scriptures are still with us.

...so what do you base that nonsensical remark on?

In due time, when I have the time to deal with it properly.

The Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad over a period of time from the year 610 to 622 CE.

If you are saying that the christian scriptures were 300yrs old at the time, then they were written 300yrs after Jesus!

at the time of Mohammed the Christian new testament books was 300yrs old as a gathered document the were written long before

Do you have accurate records of what transpired from scrolls and their "preservation" between Jesus' time up to 300CE?

what are you asking? the point is the Qur'an does not teach that the bible is corrupted!

[AdamB]

adam b can you address this please?

I'm sorry to say this guys, but the funniest thing is Christians debating based on scriptures that have been corrupted by man, sorry, bible scholars.

But according to the Koran, there was nothing wrong with those very Christian scriptures when the Koran was written... and those Christian scriptures were more than 300 years old at the time. They haven't changed since then, except to be translated, and those 300 year-old scriptures are still with us.

...so what do you base that nonsensical remark on?

In due time, when I have the time to deal with it properly.

The Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad over a period of time from the year 610 to 622 CE.

If you are saying that the christian scriptures were 300yrs old at the time, then they were written 300yrs after Jesus!

at the time of Mohammed the Christian new testament books was 300yrs old as a gathered document the were written long before

Do you have accurate records of what transpired from scrolls and their "preservation" between Jesus' time up to 300CE?

what are you asking?

Also, who wrote the gospels and everything else that comprises the New Testament? And it's validity and conformance with the teachings of Jesus?

Who wrote the gospels? Were they ACTUAL DISCIPLES WHO WERE WITH JESUS AND WITNESSED THE EVENTS THAT THEY WROTE ABOUT?

[megadoc1]

Also, who wrote the gospels and everything else that comprises the New Testament? And it's validity and conformance with the teachings of Jesus?

the answer for this is in the Qur'an

Who wrote the gospels? Were they ACTUAL DISCIPLES WHO WERE WITH JESUS AND WITNESSED THE EVENTS THAT THEY WROTE ABOUT?

read the Qur'an!!! what! you dont believe what the Qur'an says?

[AdamB]

adam b can you address this please?

In due time, when I have the time to deal with it properly.

The Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad over a period of time from the year 610 to 622 CE.

If you are saying that the christian scriptures were 300yrs old at the time, then they were written 300yrs after Jesus!

at the time of Mohammed the Christian new testament books was 300yrs old as a gathered document the were written long before

Do you have accurate records of what transpired from scrolls and their "preservation" between Jesus' time up to 300CE?

what are you asking?

Also, who wrote the gospels and everything else that comprises the New Testament? And it's validity and conformance with the teachings of Jesus?

Who wrote the gospels? Were they ACTUAL DISCIPLES WHO WERE WITH JESUS AND WITNESSED THE EVENTS THAT THEY WROTE ABOUT?

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... chapid=206

The Corruption of Scripture in Early Christianity

John Gee



Latter-day Saints are familiar with the concept of the corruption of scripture coming from a passage in the Book of Mormon that discusses the removal "from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious" (1 Nephi 13:26). Latter-day Saint discussions of the removal of plain and precious things from scripture can benefit from clarity of the processes of removal and their historical setting. One early discussion by W. W. Phelps in 1832, for example, claims that "It will be seen . . . that the most plain parts of the New Testament, have been taken from it by the Mother of Harlots . . . from the year AD 460 to 1400."1 While the image of medieval monks making changes to the text of scripture might be true in certain isolated instances, the changes came long before. We neither need to nor should look later than the second century for these changes. By the early second century, Christianity had fragmented into dozens of splinter groups2 with each group charging that the other possessed both forged and corrupted texts.3 I shall limit this discussion to documenting changes and corruptions of scripture during the second century under three headings: (1) Christian groups of the second century accuse each other of corrupting scripture, providing both the class of errors and the motives for such changes. (2) No substantial biblical manuscript antedates these charges of corruption. (3) Those scriptural passages that are quoted by Christian authors at the beginning of the second century are different from those preserved in the scriptural canon.

A wide variety of types of changes will be discussed here under the heading of corruption that can be distinguished in theory but often elide in practice. Textual corruption is the deliberate or unintentional changing of the text, either through the expansion, deletion, or alteration of the passages. Corruption can also occur through faulty interpretation (either exegesis or translation), and manipulation of the canon (which books are considered scripture).

Conclusions

In viewing the state of Christian scripture in the second century, we have not, generally, had to rely on scholarly interpretation or writers later than the early third century to detect a large shift in the concept and content of scripture in the second century. The books that were considered scripture, and some of the content of those books, changed from the beginning to the end of the century. During the second century various fragmentary groups of Christians accused other groups of having changed the texts to fit their own ideas. These changes took the form of deletions, some additions, and the redefining of the text. What the angel told Nephi is largely supported by what remains of early Christian literature. To the second century, if not before, we may trace the corruption of scripture and the loss of the plain and precious things, and it is worth noting that none of the extant Greek manuscripts dates before that time period. We cannot look to scholarship to restore the plain and precious portions of the text that were lost. If it is not revealed again we shall never have it.

Check the link above to peruse the entire article.

[megadoc1]

let me quote d spike

Since you wish to bring this up again, let us take a closer look at this erroneous nonsense about the followers of the Bible.


Muslim jurists and scholars suffer from being torn between accepting the Bible as scripture and denying and attacking the very same Bible as the corrupted and unreliable word of God. This didn't happen with the first Muslims until they actually read the Bible for themselves and only then compared it to the Koran - written more than six hundred years after the birth of Christianity, and three hundred years after the collation of scriptures now known as the Bible - the very scripture that they believed confirmed the scriptures of the Jews and Christians:

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus). (Surah 3:3 Yusuf Ali)

And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. (Surah 2:41 Yusuf Ali)

And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not. (Surah 2:101 Pickthall)

O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed confirming that which ye possess, before We destroy countenances so as to confound them, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers (of old time). The commandment of Allah is always executed. (Surah 4:47 Pickthall)

And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. (Surah 5:48 Pickthall)

As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. (Surah 35:31 Pickthall)

To solve this problem of conflicting beliefs, Muslims made a distinction between the former and present form of the Bible: they started to claim that the Bible had been tampered with, thus explaining the differences and contradictions between the Koran and the Bible. Remarkably enough, these claims means that Muslims distorted their own scripture when they asserted despite the lack of evidence that the revelations preceding the Koran were no longer in their original form. As shown in some of the verses quoted above, the author of the Koran made it clear that what was confirmed was not lost scriptures, but the very scriptures possessed by Jews and Christians in Muhammed’s era!

The writer of the Koran asked Muhammed’s followers to believe in existing and real books rather than in some lost copies of the previous revelations when he devised the following verse:

Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)." (Surah 2:136 Yusuf Ali)

Now, with regards to this verse, why did the writer not ask Muslims to believe in the idea of former revelations rather than in the texts if there were any doubts concerning their originality or wished to teach the doctrine of corruption? Are Muslims disobeying the instruction to consider all the revelations equal, by claiming that the Bible is distorted and not authentic?

adam b tell us when did the corruption took place? that post of yours above contradicts the Qur'an
because the Qur'an,written a few hundred years later, made no mention of corruption in the bible so its either one of the two:
1 the Qur'an is false
or
2 you don't agree with it

[RBphoto]

Has anyone ever entered a tantric state via meditation? I have used meditation to calm myself/ relax, clear my mind of distracting thoughts so I could study longer/ retain more info, and to keep going with little sleep. I don't consider this a religious endeavour, as all I am doing is either conciously telling all of my musccles to take a break, or just being quiet, listening to my own thoughts and using my will to stop stray thoughts.

I have never felt "closer to god" doing this but some people say it is a religious experience. How does that work out for you religious types?

[AdamB]

Muslims are critical of Jews because they had the knowledge (scriptures) but did not follow (were disobedient), taking their Rabbis as LORDS instead of Allah (making permissible what was prohibited and making prohibited what was permissible).

Muslims are critical of Christians because they innovated and strayed from the religion of GOD brought to them by Jesus, following misguidance not substantiated by firm knowledge.

Since you wish to bring this up again, let us take a closer look at this erroneous nonsense about the followers of the Bible.


Muslim jurists and scholars suffer from being torn between accepting the Bible as scripture and denying and attacking the very same Bible as the corrupted and unreliable word of God. This didn't happen with the first Muslims until they actually read the Bible for themselves and only then compared it to the Koran - written more than six hundred years after the birth of Christianity, and three hundred years after the collation of scriptures now known as the Bible - the very scripture that they believed confirmed the scriptures of the Jews and Christians:

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus). (Surah 3:3 Yusuf Ali)

From Tafsir of Ibn Kathir:
(3. It is He Who has sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming what came before it. And He sent down the Tawrah and the Injil,) (4. Aforetime, as a guidance to mankind. And He sent down the criterion. Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah, for them there is a severe torment; and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution.)

(Confirming what came before it) means, from the previous divinely revealed Books, sent to the servants and Prophets of Allah. These Books testify to the truth of the Qur'an, and the Qur'an also testifies to the truth these Books contained, including the news and glad tidings of Muhammad's prophethood and the revelation of the Glorious Qur'an.

(And He sent down the Tawrah) to Musa (Musa) son of `Imran,

(And the Injil), to `Isa, son of Mary,

(Aforetime) meaning, before the Qur'an was revealed,

(As a guidance to mankind) in their time.

(And He sent down the criterion) which is the distinction between misguidance, falsehood and deviation on one hand, and guidance, truth and piety on the other hand. This is because of the indications, signs, plain evidences and clear proofs that it contains, and because of its explanations, clarifications, etc.


And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. (Surah 2:41 Yusuf Ali)

And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not. (Surah 2:101 Pickthall)

O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed confirming that which ye possess, before We destroy countenances so as to confound them, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers (of old time). The commandment of Allah is always executed. (Surah 4:47 Pickthall)

And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. (Surah 5:48 Pickthall)

As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. (Surah 35:31 Pickthall)

To solve this problem of conflicting beliefs, Muslims made a distinction between the former and present form of the Bible: they started to claim that the Bible had been tampered with, thus explaining the differences and contradictions between the Koran and the Bible. Remarkably enough, these claims means that Muslims distorted their own scripture when they asserted despite the lack of evidence that the revelations preceding the Koran were no longer in their original form. As shown in some of the verses quoted above, the author of the Koran made it clear that what was confirmed was not lost scriptures, but the very scriptures possessed by Jews and Christians in Muhammed’s era!

The writer of the Koran asked Muhammed’s followers to believe in existing and real books rather than in some lost copies of the previous revelations when he devised the following verse:

Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)." (Surah 2:136 Yusuf Ali)

Now, with regards to this verse, why did the writer not ask Muslims to believe in the idea of former revelations rather than in the texts if there were any doubts concerning their originality or wished to teach the doctrine of corruption? Are Muslims disobeying the instruction to consider all the revelations equal, by claiming that the Bible is distorted and not authentic?

I can go on and on by refuting each quote from dspike but it clear and obvious that the revelations referred to were the ORIGINAL ACTUAL REVELATIONS given to the prophets and Messengers, NOT what is written in your Bible now nor what was written in the Bible when the Quran was revealed 1400+ yrs ago.

What is referred to is the TRUE AND CORRECT REVELATIONS THAT WERE REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS BEFORE CHANGES WERE MADE BY MAN, THEREBY CORRUPTING IT.

For example, the INJEEL (or INJIL) is the ACTUAL REVELATION SENT DOWN TO JESUS. NOT THE four(4) GOSPELS that were written by man prefixed by "It seemed good to me, also".

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO
ST LUKE
CHAPTER 1 FOR AS MUCH as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eye witnesses, and ministers of the word;
3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Does dspike possess knowledge of the ARABIC LANGUAGE and whose translations did he use?

This is a classical example of what has occurred with the christian scriptures. Using translations in English from the Latin VULGATE BIBLE, which itself is a translation.

See then how they purchase error for guidance.

[AdamB]

Has anyone ever entered a tantric state via meditation? I have used meditation to calm myself/ relax, clear my mind of distracting thoughts so I could study longer/ retain more info, and to keep going with little sleep. I don't consider this a religious endeavour, as all I am doing is either conciously telling all of my musccles to take a break, or just being quiet, listening to my own thoughts and using my will to stop stray thoughts.

I have never felt "closer to god" doing this but some people say it is a religious experience. How does that work out for you religious types?

IT'S CALLED REST!!! OUR HUMAN BODIES NEED IT.

EVEN THOSE WHOM THEY CLAIM TO BE GOD NEEDED IT!!

[16 cycles]

asking out of ignorance here...

how do muslims view Jesus - a prophet / son of god / god / disciple?

[RBphoto]

Has anyone ever entered a tantric state via meditation? I have used meditation to calm myself/ relax, clear my mind of distracting thoughts so I could study longer/ retain more info, and to keep going with little sleep. I don't consider this a religious endeavour, as all I am doing is either conciously telling all of my musccles to take a break, or just being quiet, listening to my own thoughts and using my will to stop stray thoughts.

I have never felt "closer to god" doing this but some people say it is a religious experience. How does that work out for you religious types?

IT'S CALLED REST!!! OUR HUMAN BODIES NEED IT.

EVEN THOSE WHOM THEY CLAIM TO BE GOD NEEDED IT!!

Um.... I don't follow your post. Meditation is different from rest.... but it can be either energizing or restful.

[AdamB]

FROM WIKIPEDIA:

The Gospel According to John (Greek τὸ κατὰ Ἰωάννην εὐαγγέλιον), commonly referred to as the Gospel of John or simply John[1] and often referred to in New Testament scholarship as the Fourth Gospel, is an account of the public ministry of Jesus. It begins with the witness and affirmation by John the Baptist and concludes with the death, burial, Resurrection, and post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus. This account is fourth of the canonical gospels, after the synoptics Matthew, Mark and Luke. Chapter 21 states it derives from the testimony of the 'disciple whom Jesus loved.' Along with Peter, the unnamed disciple is especially close to Jesus, and early-church tradition identified him as John the Apostle, one of Jesus' Twelve Apostles. The gospel is closely related in style and content to the three surviving Epistles of John such that commentators treat the four books together,[2] yet, according to most modern scholars, John was not the author of any of these books.[3] Recent Christian Scripture scholarship more and more has placed John within a first-century Jewish context.[4]

Raymond E. Brown did pioneering work to trace the development of the tradition from which the gospel arose.[5] The discourses seem to be concerned with the actual issues of the church-and-synagogue debate at the time when the Gospel was written[6] c. AD 90. It is notable that, in the gospel, the community still appears to define itself primarily against Judaism, rather than as part of a wider Christian church.[7] Though Christianity started as a movement within Judaism, gradually Christians and Jews became bitterly opposed.[8]

John presents a "higher" Christology than the synoptics, meaning that he describes Jesus as the incarnation of the divine Logos through whom all things were made, as the object of veneration,[9] and more explicitly as God incarnate.[10] Only in John does Jesus talk at length about himself and his divine role, often shared with the disciples only. Against the synoptics, John focuses largely on different miracles (including resurrecting Lazarus), given as signs meant to engender faith. Synoptic elements such as parables and exorcisms are not found in John. It presents a realized eschatology in which salvation is already present for the believer. The historical reliability of John is debated, particularly by secular scholarship.[11][12] In contrast, Grace-oriented churches argue for the total pre-eminence of John.

I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE, DEVIANCE IS BASED ON LACK OF PROPER EVIDENCE, RATHER OBSCURE AND UNSUBSTANTIATED "SCRIPTURES".

THIS IS WHERE THE CHANGES OF MAN HAS OCCURRED, BRANDING THEIR OWN STYLE OF "RELIGION" FOR THE UNSUSPECTING MASSES TO SWALLOW, UNAWARE AND GULLIBLE.

TRULY, SALVATION ON A SILVER PLATTER!! WHO WOULD REFUSE THAT? THE ONES WHO POSSESSES CLARITY OF THOUGHT AND ANALYSIS, WHO CAN DISTINGUISH FALSEHOOD FROM TRUTH!!

[AdamB]

asking out of ignorance here...

how do muslims view Jesus - a prophet / son of god / god / disciple?

A man,
a prophet,
a Messenger of GOD,
who was born to a human woman,
who has to die just like any other man,
who has to be resurrected with everyone else on the Day of Judgment, to be judged by GOD just like everyone else (unless GOD exempts him along with others who may qualify).

Who did not die on the cross,
who was not killed by the Jews, who was "taken up" by GOD,
who has to return to live out his natural life,
who will follow the religion of Islam when he returns,
who will break the cross and kill the swine,
who will slay the DAJJAL (google it) / Antichrist!!!

[16 cycles]

^ thanks

[Dizzy28]

asking out of ignorance here...

how do muslims view Jesus - a prophet / son of god / god / disciple?

A man,
a prophet,
a Messenger of GOD,
who was born to a human woman,
who has to die just like any other man,
who has to be resurrected with everyone else on the Day of Judgment, to be judged by GOD just like everyone else (unless GOD exempts him along with others who may qualify).

Who did not die on the cross,
who was not killed by the Jews, who was "taken up" by GOD,
who has to return to live out his natural life,
who will follow the religion of Islam when he returns,
who will break the cross and kill the swine,
who will slay the DAJJAL (google it) / Antichrist!!!

Too bad these are all opinions.

[AdamB]

asking out of ignorance here...

how do muslims view Jesus - a prophet / son of god / god / disciple?

A man,
a prophet,
a Messenger of GOD,
who was born to a human woman,
who has to die just like any other man,
who has to be resurrected with everyone else on the Day of Judgment, to be judged by GOD just like everyone else (unless GOD exempts him along with others who may qualify).

Who did not die on the cross,
who was not killed by the Jews, who was "taken up" by GOD,
who has to return to live out his natural life,
who will follow the religion of Islam when he returns,
who will break the cross and kill the swine,
who will slay the DAJJAL (google it) / Antichrist!!!

Too bad these are all opinions.

TOO BAD is when they are all confirmed to be true....the state those who disbelieve will be in!!

[RBphoto]

Um... D meditation thing... nobody wanna talk about meditation and their experiences with altered states of mind... even if it involve drugs/ near death experiences or under anesthetic?

[Dizzy28]

Um... D meditation thing... nobody wanna talk about meditation and their experiences with altered states of mind... even if it involve drugs/ near death experiences or under anesthetic?

Did (Do) Jyoti Meditation from time to time and the Raja Yoga meditation (the one where they use a light as a focal point) once when my Aunt died as she followed those teachings.
Maybe I do it wrong or my mind to cluttered but I have never really experienced any altered states of mind. Just a period of tranquility bought on perhaps by quietness.

[AdamB]

^^^Dizzy, the two sentences you have written tells so much about you and your contributions thus far!!

I wonder what fraction of Crossdrilled's education you possess!!

[Dizzy28]

I possess enough education to categorically state IMO that based on what is going on in the world it would appear that Mohammed was the 1st Antichrist. Being the founder/prophet of the religion of intolerance and war. Islam is so perfect but yet it leads to so much troubles especially when one as ignorant as yourself to anything but Islam spews its sayings uncontrollably.

When I am judged by God (who can be called by any name) he would see that I had the utmost respect for those who respected my beliefs and utter contempt for those disrespectful of my beliefs.

[Kasey]

AdamB is this thread's 'contribution' judger.

To make his garden look good, he has to mash up the neighbhour's.

[nervewrecker]

adam b can you address this please?

I'm sorry to say this guys, but the funniest thing is Christians debating based on scriptures that have been corrupted by man, sorry, bible scholars.

But according to the Koran, there was nothing wrong with those very Christian scriptures when the Koran was written... and those Christian scriptures were more than 300 years old at the time. They haven't changed since then, except to be translated, and those 300 year-old scriptures are still with us.

...so what do you base that nonsensical remark on?

In due time, when I have the time to deal with it properly.

The Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad over a period of time from the year 610 to 622 CE.

If you are saying that the christian scriptures were 300yrs old at the time, then they were written 300yrs after Jesus!

Do you have accurate records of what transpired from scrolls and their "preservation" between Jesus' time up to 300CE? Also, who wrote the gospels and everything else that comprises the New Testament? And it's validity and conformance with the teachings of Jesus?

I usually stay quiet and ignore this thread but just out of curiousity:

What language was the quran written in?

Who transalate it?

How we sure the transalation correct and not distorted over time? Whisper a message in a persons ear on one end of a room and have it passed along from person to person, by the time it reaches the next end is a whole different story.

You saying the transalation is pure but just about every mosque you go by they have different teachings / interpretations.

I not here to start anything, I just want to hear what you have to say about that.

I am born and baptised a Christian and seem to have given up hope on what they teach so dont think I taking up for them.

[AdamB]

UTTER COMTEMPT!! Dizzy, Kasey and others...haters in plain sight!!

[MG Man]

just as you hold our beliefs in contempt

[nervewrecker]

UTTER COMTEMPT!! Dizzy, Kasey and others...haters in plain sight!!

Tackle the post above this one nah.

[megadoc1]

Whisper a message in a persons ear on one end of a room and have it passed along from person to person, by the time it reaches the next end is a whole different story.

I disagree! regarding to the ancient world, oral transmissions of messages held up to very high standards

[nervewrecker]

who was there to verify that?

[yasalama]

UTTER COMTEMPT!! Dizzy, Kasey and others...haters in plain sight!!

Again I say, is it any wonder some of us will take Allah's will and last out.

[DFC]

Crossdrilled, meditation is not just sitting in a corner and emptying your mind.
I've done may different types of Raj-Yoga, Kriya Yoga, Kundalini, Kundalini Dhyaan Yoga, Transcendental Meditation. And they all employ a breathing technique to accompany with the meditation.

For example, the breathing process known as Kapala Bhati, is a powerful breathing exercise that expels stale air from your lungs and gives you a rush, you feel lightheaded and high after.
it has to do with the absorption of oxygen in your blood and to the brain.

Doing this continually, while keeping your eyes closed and in Padmasana seating position, you will begin to feel an altered state of being.

Dont get mixed up with the word "Tantra". That my friend is a very long topic. Tantra goes back wayy before Hinduism and is known as the left hand path to God. Its considered occult, and the western perception , the very little that they know, is just some sort of sex. Tantra is deeply mystical and powerful and mysterious.

I can lend you books if you want to learn what true tantra is.


anyway, here is a good read.

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap26.php

[DFC]

Last year i went to a Halloween party in South, dressed as Bin Laden.
I had a blast of a time, that party was the bomb!

There was even a drink called the Ak-47.

I could have married all the girls in that club!