The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

@Bram112, Ecc 9:5,6. The dead does not go to heaven when they die.

where do they go?...are you a Jehovah witness?

[marlener]

No I am not but the bible says that there will be resurrection day,two to be exact,no where does it say that when we die we go straight to heaven.

[megadoc1]

No I am not but the bible says that there will be resurrection day,two to be exact,no where does it say that when we die we go straight to heaven.

nowhere in the bible says that we don't go to heaven when we die , the verse you quoted speaks nothing about what you wanted it to support

[marlener]

First reread Bram112 question,he if the dead know that they are in heaven or hell,and I supported it with a verse that the dead knows nothing.So you think that when we die we go either straight to heaven or hell?

[megadoc1]

First reread Bram112 question,he if the dead know that they are in heaven or hell,and I supported it with a verse that the dead knows nothing.

no it does not! that verse you quoted is NOT a doctrinal statement about life after death! read the context of the passage.
can you tell me where is Abraham,Issac and Jacob? are they dead?

So you think that when we die we go either straight to heaven or hell?

yes and I can support it but lets work with your argument first ok?

[marlener]

There are certain cases where person were translated or taken to heaven at their dead but l am not denying that,but people going directly to heaven or hell when they die is not something supported by the bible,the bible states that there body return to the dustnand their breth returns to God which giveth it.

[megadoc1]

so do you agree that the verse you posted,is NOT a doctrinal statement on life after death?

[megadoc1]

marlener these are a few of the verses that I am using to support my beliefs

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
can you tell me when this happened? this is past tense right?

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

can you tell me why did paul think he would go directly to be with Christ If he died?

[bluefete]

:|

For child art prodigy Akiane, Jesus is for real

By Mark Ellis

Her atheist parents were surprised when their three-year-old began to describe dreams and visions from God. This inexplicable direction in their daughter’s life, combined with a remarkable talent in art and poetry, inspired her family to re-examine their own lives.

“My life began in an unusual way,” says Akiane Kramarik, 17, who spent her early years in rural Illinois. By unusual, she refers to her underwater birth in “a shack” on the edge of a cornfield. “Our family had no money, no friends, no relatives, no television or radio. Our life was quite simple — long walks in nature, open conversations, and hands on explorations of knowledge,” she says.

Her mother, Forelli, is a Lithuanian immigrant educator. Akiane’s father, Mark, is a chef from Chicago with a Catholic background. In her early family life, there was no prayer, no discussions of God, and no visits to church. Yet in the insular atheistic environment her parents created – free from media influences or even outside babysitters – Akiane suddenly began to talk about God.

She spoke of colorful dreams and visions about heaven, Jesus, and God’s amazing love. Her stunned parents realized her intense focus on God could not have come have been inspired by anything in the world they created for her. Indeed, Akiane seemed to be having supernatural encounters with the living God.

“Most of my spiritual experiences I kept secret, so as not to overwhelm my parents,” she says.

At a tender age, God implanted the desire to articulate her divinely-inspired dreams and visions into art. “When I was four years old, suddenly I started experiencing vivid impressions about different dimensions and a great desire to express them through art,” she says. Initially, she utilized whatever medium was on hand: candles, lipstick, fruits, vegetables, charcoal or pencils.



At eight-years-old, Akiane decided she wanted to paint the face of Jesus, based on the visions she received. She looked for a person she might use as a artist’s model for a long time, and finally told her family they should pray for God to send someone.

On the day they prayed, a mysterious carpenter showed up at their front door looking for work. Akiane took one look at the man’s facial features – remarkably close to the vision she received – and told her mother he was the one.

In humility, the man initially said he was not worthy to represent his Master. But reluctantly, the man agreed, although he asked to remain anonymous.

Akiane’s painting of Jesus was a painstaking effort. “The ‘Prince of Peace’ took me 4o hours to paint and another 20 hours of working with model sketching,” Akiane says. Akiane deftly works with light and shadows to create powerful impressions. “The light side of his face represents the truth, the dark side represents suffering,” she notes.

Colton Burpo, the subject of the book “Heaven is for Real,” identified this painting of Jesus as the closest representation of the Savior whom he witnessed in his dramatic vision.

Both Akiane and Colton were struck by the beauty of Jesus’ eyes. “All I remember were the eyes,” Akiane says, “ and they were like no other colors that were ever created. The closest color I can depict through paints is a sapphire hue.” Colton identified the color of Jesus’ eyes as blue-green.

In 2010, Akiane told Seattle station KCTS that her spiritual epiphanies caused her parents to start seeking answers. “We went through almost everything,” Akiane said. “We went through being Christian, being a Catholic, we studied Buddhism. At this point every one of my siblings have their own path toward a spiritual enlightenment.”

“I have my own and my parents have theirs and my brothers have theirs,” she continued. “I’m the same person as when I was four-years-old. I haven’t changed.”

Akiane’s discovery of God seems remarkably personal. “Since nobody told me who God was, I found God myself. He’s been there for me through the years. I don’t belong to any denomination or religion. I belong to God.”

To eliminate any confusion, however, Jesus is first in her mind. “He is the only way to God — the only way to heaven and joy,” she states. “My personal views on Jesus have only matured and deepened since age 4. As I grow I see how vast and unlimited His love is.”

“Jesus remains my highest authority, love, and God,” she adds. “I pray every day that people will one day follow Jesus, His teachings and feel His love.”



Akiane completed her second painting of Jesus, “Father Forgive Them,” at age 9. “I have painted about 10 paintings of Jesus,” she says, “including his mother Mary and many paintings of His creation. My current painting is another tribute to Jesus, a very special portrait, titled ‘IAM.’”

As Akiane gets older, some of the early dreams and visions have begun to fade in her memory. “Although I have forgotten most of my early heavenly contacts, my recent visions continue in a special way,” she says.

“I alone know how important Jesus is for me. Instead of writing it is best for me to express (this) through my personal connection — art. I portray Jesus how I see him, as human and as divine.

“My art is only a representation of what I see — Jesus’ glory is beyond any description!”

http://blog.godreports.com/2012/01/for- ... -for-real/

[marlener]

I am saying that the dead knows nothing and are asleep awaiting the return of Christ as told in 1 Thess 13:13-18 and 1 corithians 15:13-18 both of which says that the deadwill be raosed again at the return of Christ.There are no DEAD people or will there be in heaven,person who may have died but when they get there they will no longer be dead so as to the original question,as to if the dead know that they are in heaven or hell,my answer remains the same.

[marlener]

I read the texts provided but none says that when we die we go directly to heaveor hell,yes eventually we will reach one or the other but not at death,if that was the case then there would be no need for are resurrection would there because there would be no one in the grave any more.Maybe someone else would read the question and both of our responses and give a view on it but I can provide dozens of texts in the bible that says that the dead will remain till Christ comes.

[megadoc1]

I am saying that the dead knows nothing and are asleep awaiting the return of Christ as told in 1 Thess 13:13-18 and 1 corithians 15:13-18 both of which says that the deadwill be raosed again at the return of Christ.There are no DEAD people or will there be in heaven,person who may have died but when they get there they will no longer be dead so as to the original question,as to if the dead know that they are in heaven or hell,my answer remains the same.

marlener those verses speaks nothing about what happens to a person when they die and there is no chapter 13 in 1 Thessalonians

[marlener]

Sorry typo 1thess 4:13 - 18well if you well John5:21-29, they indicated they are dead and will be raised when Christ return,which would be unnecessary if they were already either heaven or hell.

[megadoc1]

I read the texts provided but none says that when we die we go directly to heaveor hell,

I agree they do not say that else we wont be having this discusion but what
do you gather from them?

yes eventually we will reach one or the other but not at death,if that was the case then there would be no need for are resurrection would there because there would be no one in the grave any more.

I think you are mixing things up with the resurrection of the body

Maybe someone else would read the question and both of our responses and give a view on it but I can provide dozens of texts in the bible that says that the dead will remain till Christ comes.

take your time and post them

[bluefete]

No I am not but the bible says that there will be resurrection day,two to be exact,no where does it say that when we die we go straight to heaven.

nowhere in the bible says that we don't go to heaven when we die , the verse you quoted speaks nothing about what you wanted it to support

This is the topic of a major family discussion right now. I have an aunt who quotes the following to show that the dead either go straight to heaven or to hell:


Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I counter this by saying that if the dead go straight to heaven or to hell, it nullifies the texts which speak about the 2 resurrections:

Daniel 12 King James Version
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Revelation 20 (King James Version)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.


Revelation 20 (King James Version)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



1 Corinthians 15 (King James Version)
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

[megadoc1]

Sorry typo 1thess 4:13 - 18well if you well John5:21-29, they indicated they are dead and will be raised when Christ return,which would be unnecessary if they were already either heaven or hell.

yuh make me have to pull a commentary for this one
here are some notes on this

C. Concerning Christians who have died.



1. (13) The believing dead are thought of as being “asleep.”



But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.



a. But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep: In the few weeks Paul was with the Thessalonians, he emphasized the soon return of Jesus, and the Thessalonians believed it earnestly. This was part of the reason that they were the kind of church Paul complimented so highly. Yet after Paul left, they wondered about those Christians who died before Jesus came back. They were troubled by the idea that these Christians might miss out on that great future event and that they might miss the victory and blessing of Jesus’ coming.



i. It is with some interest we note that four times in his letters, Paul asked Christians to not be ignorant about something:



· Don’t be ignorant about God’s plan for Israel (Romans 11:25).

· Don’t be ignorant about spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:1).

· Don’t be ignorant about suffering and trials in the Christian life (2 Corinthians 1:8).

· Don’t be ignorant about the rapture and the second coming of Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:13).



ii. Remarkably, these are areas where ignorance is still common in the Christian world.



b. Who have fallen asleep: Sleep was a common way to express death in the ancient world, but among pagans it was almost always seen as an eternal sleep.



i. Ancient writings are full of this pessimism regarding death:



· “Of a man once dead there is no resurrection.” (Aeschylus)

· “Hopes are among the living, the dead are without hope.” (Theocritus)

· “Suns may set and rise again but we, when once our brief light goes down, must sleep an endless night.” (Catullus)



ii. Christians called death sleep, but they emphasized the idea of rest. Early Christians began to call their burial places “cemeteries,” which means, “dormitories” or “sleeping places.” Yet the Bible never describes the death of the unbeliever as sleep, for there is no rest, peace or comfort for them in death.



iii. Though Paul, using idioms common in his day, referred to death as sleep, it does not proved the erroneous idea of soul sleep, that the present dead in Christ are in a state of suspended animation, waiting for a resurrection to consciousness. “Since to depart from this world in death to ‘be with Christ’ is described by Paul as ‘very far better’ (Philippians 1:23) than the present state of blessed communion with the Lord and blessed activity in His service, it is evident that ‘sleep’ as applied to believers cannot be intended to teach that the soul is unconscious.” (Hiebert)



c. Lest you sorrow as others who have no hope: For the Christian death is dead and leaving this body is like laying down for a nap and waking in glory. It is moving, not dying. For these reasons, Christians should not sorrow as others who have no hope when their loved ones in Jesus die.



i. As Christians, we may mourn the death of other Christians; but not as others who have no hope. Our sorrow is like the sadness of seeing someone off on a long trip, knowing you will see them again but not for a long time.



2. (14) There is full assurance that Christians who have died yet live.



For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.



a. If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep: We have more than a wishful hope of resurrection. In the resurrection of Jesus we have an amazing example of it and a promise of our own.



i. For the Thessalonian Christians, their troubled minds were answered by the statement “God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.” “It is best to understand the words to mean that Jesus will bring the faithful departed with Him when He comes back. Their death does not mean that they will miss their share in the Parousia.” (Morris)



b. Jesus died: When Paul wrote about the death of believers, he called it sleep. But in his description of Jesus’ death, he did not soften it by calling it sleep, because there was nothing soft or peaceful about His death.



i. “He endured the worst that death can possibly be . . . It is because there was no softening of the horror of death for Him that there is no horror of death for His people. For them it is but sleep.” (Morris)



c. We believe that Jesus died and rose again: This was the confident belief of the Apostle Paul and the early Christians. We will certainly live, because Jesus lives and our union with Him is stronger than death. This is why we do not sorrow as those who have no hope and why we have more than a wishful hope.



i. When a sinner dies, we mourn for them. When a believer dies we only mourn for ourselves, because they are with the Lord.



ii. In the ruins of ancient Rome, you can see the magnificent tombs of pagans, with gloomy inscriptions on them. One of them reads:



I was not

I became

I am not

I care not



Or one can visit the murky catacombs and read glorious inscriptions. One of the most common Christian epitaphs from the catacombs was In Peace, quoting Psalm 4:8: I will both lie down in peace and sleep; for You alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safety. We should look at death the same way those early Christians did.



iii. Sadly, not all Christians are at this placed of confidence and peace. Even Christians have, in unbelief, had the same fear and hopelessness about death. The author once read an inscription reflecting this un-Christian despair on an Irish tombstone in a Christian cemetery on the Hill of Slane, outside of Dublin:



O cruel Death you well may boast

Of all Tyrants thou art the most

As you all mortals can control

The Lord have mercy on my soul

(1782)



3. (15-16) Those asleep in Jesus are not at a disadvantage.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.



a. By the word of the Lord: Paul emphasized that this was an authoritative command, though we do not know whether Paul received it by direct revelation or if it was an unrecorded saying of Jesus. One way or another, this came from Jesus and did not originate with Paul.



i. “In no place does the apostle speak more confidently and positively of his inspiration than here; and we should prepare ourselves to receive some momentous and interesting truth.” (Clarke)



b. We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep: Paul wanted the Thessalonians to know that those who are asleep - Christians who have died before Jesus returns - will by no means be at a disadvantage. Those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede them. God will allow those who are asleep to share in the glory of the coming of the Lord.



i. “The living will have no advantage over those fallen asleep; they will not meet the returning Christ ahead of the dead, nor will they have any precedence in the blessedness at His coming.” (Hiebert)



ii. We who are alive means that Paul himself shared in this expectancy. It wasn’t because Paul had an erroneous promise of the return of Jesus in his lifetime. “More feasible is the solution that sees Paul setting an example of expectancy for the church of all ages. Proper Christian anticipation includes the imminent return of Christ.” (Thomas)



c. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout: When Jesus comes, He will come personally. The Lord Himself will descend, and come with a shout. The ancient Greek word for shout here is the same word used for the commands that a ship captain makes to his rowers, or a commander speaking to his soldiers. “Always there is the ring of authority and the note of urgency.” (Morris)



i. Apparently, there will be some audible signal that prompts this remarkable event. It may be that all three descriptions (shout, voice, and trumpet) refer to the same sound; or there may be three distinct sounds. The rapture will not be silent or secret, though the vast majority of people may not understand the sound or its meaning.



ii. When Paul heard the heavenly voice on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:7; 22:9) his companions heard the sound of a voice, but they did not hear articulate words. They heard a sound but did not understand its meaning. It may well be that the shout/voice/trumpet sound that accompanies the rapture will have the same effect. The entire world may hear this heavenly sound but have no idea what its meaning is.

[bluefete]

The Bible says that the spirit goes back to God at death. Does this imply consciousness?

When Jesus died, he went and preached to the dead.


1 Peter 4:
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.



This is supported by something from outside of the Bible:

THE LOST GOSPEL ACCORDING TO PETER:

9 And in the night in which the Lord's day was drawing on, as the soldiers kept guard two by two in a watch, there was a great voice in the heaven; and they saw the heavens opened, and two men descend from thence with great light and approach the tomb.

And that stone which was put at the door rolled of itself and made way in part;

and the tomb was opened, and both the young men entered in.

10 When therefore those soldiers saw it, they awakened the centurion and the elders;

for they too were hard by keeping guard.

And as they declared what things they had seen, again they see three men come forth from the tomb, and two of them supporting one, and a cross following them:

and of the two the head reached unto the heaven, but the head of him who was lead by them overpassed the heavens. And they heard a voice from the heavens, saying, Thou hast preached to them that sleep.

And a response was heard from the cross, Yea.

Is this proof of conscious existence after death?

[bluefete]

Megadoc:

What is this rapture thing about?

[marlener]

I agree with you there bluefete,just something for thought,in John 11 onwards it deals with the resurrection of Lazarus,if the dead went to heaven what was Lazarus doing in the grave 4 days later and why did Jesus say he is dead and asleep,rather than he is in heaven or hell. surely Jesus would know and undestand the state of the dead and where they were.

[megadoc1]

marlener so far none of the verses you provide to support your views are about them
so tell me what about Abraham ,Issac and Jacob where did they go? based on your belief what happens to me if I die tonight?

[bluefete]

I agree with you there bluefete,just something for thought,in John 11 onwards it deals with the resurrection of Lazarus,if the dead went to heaven what was Lazarus doing in the grave 4 days later and why did Jesus say he is dead and asleep,rather than he is in heaven or hell. surely Jesus would know and undestand the state of the dead and where they were.

It is also instructive that nowhere in the Bible do we get an eyewitness account from Lazarus about what it was like to be dead.

I will admit that there are real doozies in the Bible that many people overlook.

For example, when Jesus died:

Matthew 27 (King James Version)
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

[bluefete]

marlener so far none of the verses you provide to support your views are about them
so tell me what about Abraham ,Issac and Jacob where did they go? based on your belief what happens to me if I die tonight?

Well Moses appeared on the Mountain with Jesus and Elijah and he was supposed to be dead as well.

We know for sure that Enoch and Elijah were translated. So they did not die.

The Bible says that Moses 'died". But it also says that the devil and Michael the archangel fought over the location of the body of Moses.


Jude 1 (King James Version)
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The bottom line is that we truly do not know what will happen to us at death.

[marlener]

If the dead were in heaven then Matt27:51&52 would not be applicable because there would be no one in the graves,also Lazarus had nothing to tell because he knew nothing,surely if he had gone to heaven or hell he would have mentioned it,Megadoc we have both agreed that there was certain people that went to heaven or was translated but if you die tonight my brother you will rest in your grave till Christ returns.
For those who think we go straight to heaven or hell when we die before the resurrection then there would be no need for one would there,no one to resurrect.
The important thing is that we live in harmony with God's will and his mercy and his blood will cover us when our name comes up in judgement.Goodnight gentlemen till tomorrow God willing.

[DFC]

Who is the best God?

Personally i think Lord Shiva, Athena, Dionysus are really cool.Much better than Christian God or Muslim God. They not as moody, and bipolar .

I like Quetzalcoatl too. He got Swag.

Whats your favorite Gods?

[megadoc1]

I would say that your favorite god is the one you choose

[Bizzare]

Y'all are mixing the afterlife before Christ came and After Christ came. This was discussed a few pages back.
Before Christ died, the dead did not go to Heaven or Hell. Remember Lazurus and the rich man story?

[megadoc1]

If the dead were in heaven then Matt27:51&52 would not be applicable because there would be no one in the graves,

Marlene these verses does not support your argument!
you are ignoring the concept of Hades

also Lazarus had nothing to tell because he knew nothing,surely if he had gone to heaven or hell he would have mentioned it

it should be understood that he went to Hades

,Megadoc we have both agreed that there was certain people that went to heaven or was translated

yes but the ones that I asked you about, Abraham ,Issac and Jacob where did they go? because none of them was translated ! they all went to the grave!
what makes this difficult for you now ,is that Jesus said:Mar 12:26 But concerning the dead being raised--have you not read in the book of Moses, [in the passage] about the [burning] bush, how God said to him, I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob?(4)
Mar 12:27 He is not the God of [the] dead, but of [the] living! You are very wrong.
so my question to you marlener is where were Abraham ,Issac and Jacob living? in Hades?

but if you die tonight my brother you will rest in your grave till Christ returns

so given the verse posted above "He is not the God of [the] dead, but of [the] living!" how does this work out?

For those who think we go straight to heaven or hell when we die before the resurrection then there would be no need for one would there,no one to resurrect.

what is your understanding of the resurrection ?

[AdamB]

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Does it matter what religion(s) we are?????????

Yes it matters.

To "FEAR HIM" is to worship HIM, fear is a form of worship just like love, hope, trust, reliance, etc.

To "FEAR HIM" is to BELIEVE IN HIM, IN HIS ONENESS, ASSOCIATING NO PARTNER TO HIM (IN LORDSHIP OR DIVINITY).

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ten ... ORM=IQFRBA

"THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."

THE RELIGION ACCEPTABLE TO GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE ONE CONFORMING TO THESE LAWS.

WHOEVER "FEELS" THAT THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAWS OF GOD ALMIGHTY, THEN MAY THEY BE GUIDED BACK TO THE TRUTH.

[Dizzy28]

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Does it matter what religion(s) we are?????????

No it does not. God has no religion so why should we??

[AdamB]

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Does it matter what religion(s) we are?????????

No it does not. God has no religion so why should we??

Keep deluding yourself.

If you don't believe in GOD, that makes you a disbeliever.

If you believe in GOD but reject HIS revelations/books AND Prophets, that makes you a disbeliever.

If you believe in GOD but reject the religion/s that HIS Prophet/s (whom HE sent) established, that makes you a disbeliever.