The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

let me give you a hint those instructions were for those under the law (please adam b don't take this to mean that Christians don't have a moral standard ) most Christians would have been gentiles and are under grace!

Hear nah...alyuh men so fulla sh!t it does amaze me sometimes yuh know.

That same passage you just quote there has invalidated countless arguments you've made and "sincs" you've condemned in this thread (and will surely condemn again).

Worse than lawyers, yes. Bullsh!tters.

you have examples? bring it! ...and please...tell me where in Christianity there is a ceremonial law to not shave one's hair...I hope you did not get that mixed up with a moral law ..such as don't go sleeping with another man's wife ....I hope you are not confused with the word law and what is regarded by that term as far as the bible is concerned.

humes you misunderstand ! ..sin is condemned in the new testament nothing in my passage disagrees with or invalidates the fact that sin has been condemned but your mistaking a ceremonial law for a moral law...in Christianity one is not obligated to keep the ceremonial law
for instance if I don't keep the sabbath, should I be concerned about putting a razor to my face?
the new testament teaches that these things were a shadow of what is to come and now he has come we are no longer under those stuff

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

the passage may not mean anything to you but you can at least you can get an idea of what the christian faith is and not make the error like what stepon !

[Stephon.]

Um.............. you have got to be crazy If you think I am going to read that wall of text.

[megadoc1]

Um.............. you have got to be crazy If you think I am going to read that wall of text.

well that's your choice ! you can continue with your line of questioning and feel your are on to something..if its that what makes you comfortable....who knows the pastor probably gave you a schooling on Christianity and you probably ignore that as well thinking you really had a good case
at that time or or even now

[Stephon.]

Um.............. you have got to be crazy If you think I am going to read that wall of text.

well that's your choice ! you can continue with your line of questioning and feel your are on to something..if its that what makes you comfortable

Same.

[megadoc1]

sorry ..check the edit

[d spike]

Today a pastor was talking to me while going through my iPod. He was aaking me why I had so many songs and no Gospel music.

So I told him because I don't listen to Gospel music, though I did admit that I do like some Gospel songs.

Then he pulled out his tablet and started quoting Bible verses for me :/

....who knows the pastor probably gave you a schooling on Christianity and you probably ignore that as well

Can't say I blame him... any twit who confuses finding joy in musical entertainment (enjoyment of the Creation is part of our being; being able to have a favourite choice of an aspect of the Creation; and finding joy in exercising this ability is actually all part of one form of worshiping the Creator) with worshiping via the use of a specific type of music (another form of worship) has no business being a formal spiritual director, such as a pastor.

Megadoc, perhaps Stephon has quite some ways to go, but that remark of yours is worthless - one might as well say a broken clock is right twice a day, and so should still be used to tell the time...

[megadoc1]

d spike I did not address the pastor as far as music is concerned because I don't think a pastor would be concerned about the type of music an unbeliever listens to....(in church terms the man of the world listens to the music of the world) I don't believe that a pastor would query that an unregenerated man would not listen to worship music!
to me, that's rather "fleshly" ..that's why I asked this

what kind of pastor is that?

I just don't believe we have the full story here! who knows he is saying its a pastor but the person probably isn't ..

I ended with this suggestion

who knows the pastor probably..........

because despite the fact that he can learn why his line of questioning was in error he refuse to read it himself, so maybe just maybe, he heard it before from the "pastor" but still wishes to continue in ignorance, yet come on here proud being with it.....

I do take your point thought,you are quite right!...but I am focus on the guy's questioning of a christian who might as well be a gentile, on laws that were not for gentiles..

[AdamB]

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things

[megadoc1]

yes mr adam b that Holy Ghost is the comforter that was promised by Jesus to His disciples which they did receive a short time after and NOT 400 years later at the advent of Islam as most Muslims erroneously teaches

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
παράκλητος
paraklētos
par-ak'-lay-tos
An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.




Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord (not a honda eh) in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

but adam b all this means nothing to you and would remain a problem to you based on the conflict you have with the claims that the bible was corrupted...
that is what d spike is taking you to task on ...yet you are ignoring him ...I dont think its wise to continue this conversation until you address that critical point that d spike raised
because all this hangs on it, so can you please take your time and address those issues for us? please! let us hear your views...at least I would appreciate if you can address it ..other wise it is worthless for us to go on....thanks!

[AdamB]

"ANOTHER" Comforter you say??!!!
Another!!!

Comforter!!! Why not the words "Holy Ghost" used??

Why, I though you all said that the Trinity comprises The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost.

But this is "another" Comforter, then there must be others. So maybe you need to change that Trinity thing to something reflecting more than one god, oh sorry, person.

Muslims believe that the scriptures have been changed, the name of our prophet Ahmad was there written but removed.

Also, the Spirit of Truth, refers to a name of our prophet which means "The Truthful One".

Jesus informed his disciples that Muhammad was to come and that "he (Jesus) had to go in order for Muhammad to come to "teach you all things".

Of course, you can dispute our claims but the fact remains that we do not disbelieve in Jesus but you disbelieve in Muhammad and anyone who disbelieves in any one of the messengers has disbelieved in all. Hence, is a disbeliever with GOD.

The same way you say that Gentiles don't have to follow the Law given to Moses, we say that it is upon you to leave what you have and follow the next one, the Law of Islam.

[DFC]

Sorry to be off topic eh, but God spoke to me last night and instructed me to go buy some roast pork.

If God had a favorite food, i would guess it had to be roast pork. It tastes soo good, that it surely is Divine !

I would imagine , Heaven full with pork cooked in every imaginable way.
God really know what he was doing when he created the pig.

[megadoc1]

"ANOTHER" Comforter you say??!!!
Another!!!

Comforter!!! Why not the words "Holy Ghost" used??

παράκλητος
paraklētos
par-ak'-lay-tos
An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter.

this is the word used in the original Greek ,(which is still available for you to to research) how come when you defend the quran you always speak about the original language but when it comes to the bible you act as their isn't any and all there is available are the English translations? why?
why is it ok for there to be a lack for English words to translate the Koran into but a big issue when there is a lack of a better word to translate the Greek scriptures into?

Why, I though you all said that the Trinity comprises The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost.

But this is "another" Comforter, then there must be others. So maybe you need to change that Trinity thing to something reflecting more than one god, oh sorry, person.

this garbage you just wrote brings nothing to the discussion but only serves to show your unwillingness to understand the christian faith ..this comforter is the third person of the trinity,Jesus.... ,being the second,was talking about the third as the other .....note: I am not writing this for you! but for the sake of others cause as we all know by now, you are not interested in learning what the christian faith is ..you are acting as if you are "programed"..

Muslims believe that the scriptures have been changed, the name of our prophet Ahmad was there written but removed.

Also, the Spirit of Truth, refers to a name of our prophet which means "The Truthful One".

Jesus informed his disciples that Muhammad was to come and that "he (Jesus) had to go in order for Muhammad to come to "teach you all things".

that's why you need to address d spike's post and tell us when did this change took place ..the koran does not teach that the bible was altered so this change have to take place after the koran was written, but here lies your problem..
the very text that was available before the koran was written is still available and have been shown to be in agreement with most translations of the bible .....so give us some answers

Of course, you can dispute our claims but the fact remains that we do not disbelieve in Jesus but you disbelieve in Muhammad and anyone who disbelieves in any one of the messengers has disbelieved in all. Hence, is a disbeliever with GOD.

I do believe in muhamad I just believe he is a fraud..that,s all now don't get offended I am entitled to my beliefs ...... you seem to have no problem dissing my "three gods" so be cool

The same way you say that Gentiles don't have to follow the Law given to Moses, we say that it is upon you to leave what you have and follow the next one, the Law of Islam.

when I said that gentile's don't have to follow the law given to Moses I meant that they don't achieve righteousness by doing something according to a law or rule book..but through faith in Jesus they are justified righteous and and now, should walk in righteousness because its their new "born again" nature to do so.....to me ,leaving the position of being naturally made righteous and naturally doing righteousness through faith in Christ( the perfect law of liberty), to go on to a book of rules about how to live righteous and how to go about doing it ..is only a backwards step it's best I become a Jew

[d spike]

Did someone say Al-Haqq....isn't that the bbq guy?

The bbq guy is Al-Haaq NOT AL-HAQQ!!!

More phlegm, pioneer, more phlegm.

[Kasey]

Aahhhcccchhhhhhhh........

[bluefete]

Sorry to be off topic eh, but God spoke to me last night and instructed me to go buy some roast pork.

If God had a favorite food, i would guess it had to be roast pork. It tastes soo good, that it surely is Divine !

I would imagine , Heaven full with pork cooked in every imaginable way.
God really know what he was doing when he created the pig.

ACTS 10:

9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

[bluefete]

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Does it matter what religion(s) we are?????????

[Bizzare]

ok, so now you're compromising with other faiths?? Is that where you've reached??
You're saying that your God is down with a man who believes in the Quran although the bible makes it very clear that that's idolatry? Tsk Tsk Tsk...

[bluefete]

ok, so now you're compromising with other faiths?? Is that where you've reached??
You're saying that your God is down with a man who believes in the Quran although the bible makes it very clear that that's idolatry? Tsk Tsk Tsk...

The man in the bush who died and never heard about the bible - where will he end up? In hell?

[Bizzare]

According to the bible, Yes!

I've asked this question numerous times and left even Pastors pondering. Some say there's text in the bible that says that all men will know about the name of Jesus, and they claim that God will get through to each man somehow. We know that's simply untrue. There are "untouched" tribes in many parts of the world. Those who think they've all heard of Jesus Christ are simply out of touch with reality and choose to live blinded. But, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, No sinner (unsaved) can enter the Kingdom of God. I'm sure even you know that the bible made that clear. And you also know that the bible says every man was born a sinner. AND you also know that there is only one way to be saved.

What about those that never heard of Jesus Christ? It's not their fault, right? Does that make sense to you that a man who had no chance of hearing the Gospel will enter the placed described in the bible as Hell?

[bluefete]

Jesus did say that the Gospel would be preached to ALL nations.

However, we do not know the extent of God's infinite goodness and mercy.

Nebuchadnezzar was not a Jew. He would be what some would call a heathen. Notwithstanding, God used him in a mighty way to teach the world that He is indeed no respecter of persons.

Only God can judge us. And for those who do not believe in God ... Well they will find out soon enough whether they were right or wrong.

[Bizzare]

God uses both the Good and Evil here on earth. Jesus was inspired to select Judas as one of the disciples though he was full of evil from his beginning. He sinful ways were necessary to fulfil prophecy. As hard as that is for some to swallow, that's documented in the bible.

That doesn't have anything really to do with sinners entering heaven though. Though we do not know the extent of his mercy as you said, if God allowed a sinner to enter heaven through mercy, then his word is a lie now, is it?

[rspann]

[quote="Bizzare"]God uses both the Good and Evil here on earth. Jesus was inspired to select Judas as one of the disciples though he was full of evil from his beginning. He sinful ways were necessary to fulfil prophecy.

was Judas sinful from the beginning ,or did satan enter into him?luke 22.3

[Bizzare]

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

[brams112]

Quick question how does a dead person know they are in heaven or hell?

[bluesteel29]

[megadoc1]

According to the bible, Yes!

I've asked this question numerous times and left even Pastors pondering. Some say there's text in the bible that says that all men will know about the name of Jesus, and they claim that God will get through to each man somehow. We know that's simply untrue. There are "untouched" tribes in many parts of the world. Those who think they've all heard of Jesus Christ are simply out of touch with reality and choose to live blinded. But, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, No sinner (unsaved) can enter the Kingdom of God. I'm sure even you know that the bible made that clear. And you also know that the bible says every man was born a sinner. AND you also know that there is only one way to be saved.

bizare tell me what you think about this passage

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What about those that never heard of Jesus Christ? It's not their fault, right? Does that make sense to you that a man who had no chance of hearing the Gospel will enter the placed described in the bible as Hell?

you know I had this question put to me many times but after pondering on it I came to realize that the same way there is a possibility that some won't hear the gospel the same possibility exists that if they did, they probably would not believe.it or reject it and to confirm this is simple, most of the times the person who is asking these questions does not believe and only uses this question to refute the faith...so if it is possible for an unbeliever to hear it but not believe why do they think that the ones who did not hear the gospel will believe? God knows, the bible actually teaches that he made himself known to them

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[Bizzare]

There's so much from that post I want to take you up on, but let me start with saying: By reading your post, I can tell that you DO agree that there are individuals the gospel may never reach. Correct? That right there would contradict the word of God. If that is so, then God must be a liar? Numerous passages in the bible suggest that the word of God shall reach ALL nations. Revelation 5 even went further to say EVERY TONGUE.

The bible is supposed to be based on truth. What God says is eternal and doesn't change. His word should not contradict itself nor compromise for any specific situation. IT MUST REMAIN CONSISTENT.

With that said, another question I've had. We are all born sinners right. There's one way to heaven, through salvation, right? Salvation requires self-awareness that you are a sinner and confession ok. So question, where do babies go when they die if they haven't had a chance to confess their sins in self-awareness? Remember they were already born sinners? Are you saying that all babies go to hell or the word of God CHANGES to make this an exception so that they can go to heaven?

[marlener]

Babies would go to heaven,to sin you must be mentally mature enough to make a decision.If you look at the bible's reference to sin it would support this.Act17.30,James 4:17.are two texts that may shed some light.

[megadoc1]

There's so much from that post I want to take you up on, but let me start with saying: By reading your post, I can tell that you DO agree that there are individuals the gospel may never reach. Correct?

true many people die without hearing the gospel even in places where there are many churches

That right there would contradict the word of God. If that is so, then God must be a liar?

how so? why does the fact that people die without hearing the gospel contradict the bible ?

Numerous passages in the bible suggest that the word of God shall reach ALL nations. Revelation 5 even went further to say EVERY TONGUE.

it did say every nation but that does not man every person..and "every tongue" is in respect to language .

The bible is supposed to be based on truth. What God says is eternal and doesn't change. His word should not contradict itself nor compromise for any specific situation. IT MUST REMAIN CONSISTENT.

agreed! but none of your arguments is sufficient enough to prove or even suggest a contradiction! just a need dig deeper.

With that said, another question I've had. We are all born sinners right. There's one way to heaven, through salvation, right? Salvation requires self-awareness that you are a sinner and confession ok. So question, where do babies go when they die if they haven't had a chance to confess their sins in self-awareness? Remember they were already born sinners? Are you saying that all babies go to hell or the word of God CHANGES to make this an exception so that they can go to heaven?

I believe that all babies go to heaven(even aborted ones) .but I must say, there was a time I believed otherwise

[marlener]

@Bram112, Ecc 9:5,6. The dead does not go to heaven when they die.