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AdamB wrote:bluefete wrote:Agreed. But if atheists/agnostics do not believe in God, why call His name in times of trouble or even as a figure of speech?
Why not say - Oh "Richard Dawkins"?
There is a prophetic narration (hadith) that all of the souls of the children of Adam were extracted and ALL were made to witness "laa ilaaha ill Allaah", that "there is no (true) god except ALLAAH (God Almighty)".
So, possibly deep within our mind we all know that GOD exists and life threatening events "reminds" us somehow!!??
bluefete wrote:MG Man wrote:based on bluefete's logic, my god has many names..........[edited]
When you are dancing in the friendly flames, I don't want to be anywhere close to you.
and I fully agree with you there! How are we to know what should be taken literally and what shouldnt!AdamB wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:It is mutually exclusive when you want to literally follow scripture.
How else are we to follow scripture? In what manner did GOD intend for us to follow HIS scriptures, if not literally? Would GOD reveal scripture and then say don't follow it "literally"? Well, you said literally, Muslims say "ON THEIR OBVIOUSLY UNDERSTOOD MEANING/S".
When it is not followed this way, it leads to many misguided sects because each one wants to follow their interpretation, their desire!! It has happened to ALL RELIGIONS including Islam but we know who are the "saved sect", the ones on the true and correct guidance.
ah! see that is the difference between science and religionbluefete wrote:But was it not the Scientists who had people believing the world was flat???
But the clergy also did a hatchet job on the people back then because many were illiterate. So they put out what they wanted people to believe and anyone who disagreed - well- check the Inquisition.
*sigh*bluefete wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what?bluefete wrote:
But isn't it interesting, Duane, that these same people never say "Oh Devil!!!"
Somehow they always call out to God at the relevant times.![]()
why would they say "oh devil"?
as far as I know atheists do not believe the devil / satan exists either
because someone does not believe in God does not mean they worship the devil!
Agreed. But if atheists/agnostics do not believe in God, why call His name in times of trouble or even as a figure of speech?
Why not say - Oh "Richard Dawkins"?
yes I heard this beforeAdamB wrote:There is a prophetic narration (hadith) that all of the souls of the children of Adam were extracted and ALL were made to witness "laa ilaaha ill Allaah", that "there is no (true) god except ALLAAH (God Almighty)".
So, possibly deep within our mind we all know that GOD exists and life threatening events "reminds" us somehow!!??
ABA Trading LTD wrote:bluefete wrote:MG Man wrote:based on bluefete's logic, my god has many names..........[edited]
When you are dancing in the friendly flames, I don't want to be anywhere close to you.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:*sigh*bluefete wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what?bluefete wrote:
But isn't it interesting, Duane, that these same people never say "Oh Devil!!!"
Somehow they always call out to God at the relevant times.![]()
why would they say "oh devil"?
as far as I know atheists do not believe the devil / satan exists either
because someone does not believe in God does not mean they worship the devil!
Agreed. But if atheists/agnostics do not believe in God, why call His name in times of trouble or even as a figure of speech?
Why not say - Oh "Richard Dawkins"?
it is no different from them saying "oh sh!t" or "oh snap", it is a figure of speech, prose that has caught on culturally and is as ubiquitous as "ent" is to trini dialect.
and is it really that difficult to grasp that atheists and agnostics do not need a figure head to call upon? Why even suggest that they would want to say "Oh Richard Dawkins?"
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:yes I heard this beforeAdamB wrote:There is a prophetic narration (hadith) that all of the souls of the children of Adam were extracted and ALL were made to witness "laa ilaaha ill Allaah", that "there is no (true) god except ALLAAH (God Almighty)".
So, possibly deep within our mind we all know that GOD exists and life threatening events "reminds" us somehow!!??
it explains why Muslims say someone has "reverted" instead of "converted" to Islam.![]()
If this produces such a "reminder", why then do tribes that are left alone, uncontacted, not develop even a crude form of Islam or at least Abrahamic type religion that was there prior to the revelation of the Qur'an?
When Columbus and others found the Amerindians on this side of the world they were eating pork and practicing polytheism.
MG Man wrote:megadoc1 wrote:AdamB wrote:megadoc1 wrote:nah! that not roman Catholicism but probably a mixture of another religion..but if he did say saint jude, saint megadoc or saintt duane then maybeAdamB wrote:A true story. About 3 yrs ago, an old (catholic) school friend of mine was held up by bandits, robbed and tied up and put in the trunk of his car. The bandits lit the car (with fire eh) and fled. He was saved but sustained burns on his hands while trying to escape. (May Allah save us from such a horrible trial).
Afterwards, I asked him when he was in that situation, "Who did you turn to? On whom did you place your trust (mentally and verbally)?" I was thinking ok he would say GOD the father or the son (Jesus).
He said he called on his "ANCESTORS" to save him (his dead ancestors who are buried in their graves)!! He said it's what Catholics believe.
Megadoc, can you confirm?
but you see again the need for you to know what the other religious belief are so you won't
find yourself making these kinds of mistakes...or it can very well come across a an opportunity for you to thread on another religion based on errant beliefs but this will only work against you
What's the virtue of Saint Jude?
some people hold the saints at a very high esteem its a traditional thing with certain groups within Christianity ..but please don't mix it with the actual belief system of Christianity
do some research on it
he is doing exactly what he claims people do to his religion, ie judge incorrectly
the dude is one messed up sada roti
bluefete wrote:ABA Trading LTD wrote:bluefete wrote:MG Man wrote:based on bluefete's logic, my god has many names..........[edited]
When you are dancing in the friendly flames, I don't want to be anywhere close to you.
I was waiting for this.
megadoc1 wrote:nah! that not roman Catholicism but probably a mixture of another religion..but if he did say saint jude, saint megadoc or saintt duane then maybeAdamB wrote:A true story. About 3 yrs ago, an old (catholic) school friend of mine was held up by bandits, robbed and tied up and put in the trunk of his car. The bandits lit the car (with fire eh) and fled. He was saved but sustained burns on his hands while trying to escape. (May Allah save us from such a horrible trial).
Afterwards, I asked him when he was in that situation, "Who did you turn to? On whom did you place your trust (mentally and verbally)?" I was thinking ok he would say GOD the father or the son (Jesus).
He said he called on his "ANCESTORS" to save him (his dead ancestors who are buried in their graves)!! He said it's what Catholics believe.
Megadoc, can you confirm?
but you see again the need for you to know what the other religious belief are so you won't
find yourself making these kinds of mistakes...or it can very well come across a an opportunity for you to thread on another religion based on errant beliefs but this will only work against you
I did not say that!ABA Trading LTD wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:*sigh*bluefete wrote:Agreed. But if atheists/agnostics do not believe in God, why call His name in times of trouble or even as a figure of speech?
Why not say - Oh "Richard Dawkins"?
it is no different from them saying "oh sh!t" or "oh snap", it is a figure of speech, prose that has caught on culturally and is as ubiquitous as "ent" is to trini dialect.
and is it really that difficult to grasp that atheists and agnostics do not need a figure head to call upon? Why even suggest that they would want to say "Oh Richard Dawkins?"
someone saying "Oh God" is no different from someone saying "oh sheit" ??
interesting![]()
AdamB wrote:bluefete wrote:ABA Trading LTD wrote:bluefete wrote:MG Man wrote:based on bluefete's logic, my god has many names..........[edited]
When you are dancing in the friendly flames, I don't want to be anywhere close to you.
I was waiting for this.
That's the VALUE some bring to the discussion here.
You sure you want to say that?AdamB wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:yes I heard this beforeAdamB wrote:There is a prophetic narration (hadith) that all of the souls of the children of Adam were extracted and ALL were made to witness "laa ilaaha ill Allaah", that "there is no (true) god except ALLAAH (God Almighty)".
So, possibly deep within our mind we all know that GOD exists and life threatening events "reminds" us somehow!!??
it explains why Muslims say someone has "reverted" instead of "converted" to Islam.![]()
If this produces such a "reminder", why then do tribes that are left alone, uncontacted, not develop even a crude form of Islam or at least Abrahamic type religion that was there prior to the revelation of the Qur'an?
When Columbus and others found the Amerindians on this side of the world they were eating pork and practicing polytheism.
It's not the details of the religion they would develop but the belief that there is ONE TRUE GOD and that HE ALONE is to be worshipped. This is what ALL REVEALED scriptures are supposed to have as the core belief originating from GOD before some of them were changed TO SUIT THEIR MISGUIDED DESIRES. (This is a discussion so I don't have to provide proof. It is what Islam teaches / muslims believe.)
I remember a Shaykh gave a Friday sermon once and he made reference to natives in the jungle who lived / conformed to the natural inclination. They would have believed in GOD who is ALL POWERFUL, ALL LIVING. Then there came missionaries telling them that GOD died to save them. So the natural response from them were "these people stupid or what, eh, we supposed to believe in a god who would die, who could be killed? what kinda god is that? these white people real idiotic!!" Well hope yuh get the drift. The point is that most believe and don't think or question because it is the norm that was always there.
WRT the polytheism, you know from "stories" in the scriptures that the true believers are modest and quiet and the loud mouthed, aggressive ones runamock and take over the show. Like when Moses went up to Mt Sinai. Or the way of the King or ruler goes (Like King James?) So that's what possible happened with the native civilizations. What you see engraved on walls, etc does not necessarily mean that ALL of them had the same belief or the belief of monotheism did not exist among some or that there was not some one from among them who called to ONENESS OF GOD.
d spike wrote:AdamB wrote:Muslims are critical of Christians because they innovated and strayed from the religion of GOD brought to them by Jesus, following misguidance not substantiated by firm knowledge.
Since you wish to bring this up again, let us take a closer look at this erroneous nonsense about the followers of the Bible.
Muslim jurists and scholars suffer from being torn between accepting the Bible as scripture and denying and attacking the very same Bible as the corrupted and unreliable word of God. This didn't happen with the first Muslims until they actually read the Bible for themselves and only then compared it to the Koran - written more than six hundred years after the birth of Christianity, and three hundred years after the collation of scriptures now known as the Bible - the very scripture that they believed confirmed the scriptures of the Jews and Christians:
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus). (Surah 3:3 Yusuf Ali)
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. (Surah 2:41 Yusuf Ali)
And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not. (Surah 2:101 Pickthall)
O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed confirming that which ye possess, before We destroy countenances so as to confound them, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers (of old time). The commandment of Allah is always executed. (Surah 4:47 Pickthall)
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. (Surah 5:48 Pickthall)
As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. (Surah 35:31 Pickthall)
To solve this problem of conflicting beliefs, Muslims made a distinction between the former and present form of the Bible: they started to claim that the Bible had been tampered with, thus explaining the differences and contradictions between the Koran and the Bible. Remarkably enough, these claims means that Muslims distorted their own scripture when they asserted despite the lack of evidence that the revelations preceding the Koran were no longer in their original form. As shown in some of the verses quoted above, the author of the Koran made it clear that what was confirmed was not lost scriptures, but the very scriptures possessed by Jews and Christians in Muhammed’s era!
The writer of the Koran asked Muhammed’s followers to believe in existing and real books rather than in some lost copies of the previous revelations when he devised the following verse:
Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)." (Surah 2:136 Yusuf Ali)
Now, with regards to this verse, why did the writer not ask Muslims to believe in the idea of former revelations rather than in the texts if there were any doubts concerning their originality or wished to teach the doctrine of corruption? Are Muslims disobeying the instruction to consider all the revelations equal, by claiming that the Bible is distorted and not authentic?
pioneer wrote:Did someone say Al-Haqq....isn't that the bbq guy?
AdamB wrote:
Megadoc,
What does "high esteem" mean? What is this "traditional thing" and who practises it, if not Roman Catholics?
megadoc1 wrote:do some research on it
I must admit, I admire the man style.... the best I can do is imitateAdamB wrote:Megadoc,
Starting to sound like Dspike now??!!! LOL
ABA Trading LTD wrote:AdamB wrote:That's the VALUE some bring to the discussion here.
you bringing any value to this? have you done anything besides copy and paste from various islamic websites and make islam look like a bunch of idiots ?
Stephon. wrote:Today a pastor was talking to me while going through my iPod. He was aaking me why I had so many songs and no Gospel music.
So I told him because I don't listen to Gospel music, though I did admit that I do like some Gospel songs.
Then he pulled out his tablet and started quoting Bible verses for me :/
Then I asked him "why so you get haircuts and shave your facial hair?"
He gave me an answer, then I quoted Leviticus 19:27 that condems shaving your facial hair.
Then he gave me some religious mumbo jumbo about how there are x amount of books etc etc. And why that book was invalid. Then I asked him if I would be wrong to get a tattoo. His reply was "yeah the Bible said tattoos are marking your skin, your body is a temple" etc etc. More BS religious talk. Then I quoted. Leviticus 19:28 (the same book he said wasn't "accurate" just 2 minutes ago) that said that you shouldn't mark your skin. Which drove to my question, why is it OK for you to ignore one sentense in a book that says you shouldn't shave, but on the same page, they're saying that tattoos are basically wrong and you choose to follow THAT word. Weird that a pastor is picking and choosing what he wants to basically judge people for, even if its in the same exact page in the Bible.
Stephon. wrote:He was pissed off, I didn't care though.
Stephon. wrote:Today a pastor was talking to me while going through my iPod. He was aaking me why I had so many songs and no Gospel music.
So I told him because I don't listen to Gospel music, though I did admit that I do like some Gospel songs.
Then he pulled out his tablet and started quoting Bible verses for me :/
Then I asked him "why so you get haircuts and shave your facial hair?"
He gave me an answer, then I quoted Leviticus 19:27 that condems shaving your facial hair.
Then he gave me some religious mumbo jumbo about how there are x amount of books etc etc. And why that book was invalid. Then I asked him if I would be wrong to get a tattoo. His reply was "yeah the Bible said tattoos are marking your skin, your body is a temple" etc etc. More BS religious talk. Then I quoted. Leviticus 19:28 (the same book he said wasn't "accurate" just 2 minutes ago) that said that you shouldn't mark your skin. Which drove to my question, why is it OK for you to ignore one sentense in a book that says you shouldn't shave, but on the same page, they're saying that tattoos are basically wrong and you choose to follow THAT word. Weird that a pastor is picking and choosing what he wants to basically judge people for, even if its in the same exact page in the Bible.
megadoc1 wrote:let me give you a hint those instructions were for those under the law (please adam b don't take this to mean that Christians don't have a moral standard ) most Christians would have been gentiles and are under grace!
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