The Religion Discussion

[Bizzare]

you are mixing believing and knowing

lemme take u up on this edit.

U r the one mixing believing and having faith
What you just described is having faith. You can only have faith when there is no proof. If proof is present, u cannot have faith. Faith requires lack of proof. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If there is a God, and he shows his face, we can no longer have faith.

Now that we have proof, we can only BELIEVE. We can no longer have faith!!!

U sir, r the one mixing belief with faith. If you have proof in something, u have to be crazy to disbelieve. So what you just told me there, that if you had proof you wouldn't have to believe, I think you are a bit crazy. Get urself checked


If you have proof that ur wife is really a women, u have to belief. U have to be VERY CRAZY to see a vagina and say, I don't believe she is a woman. (oh and please don't get technical about sex change and what not. u know where I'm coming from. There's proof for all that too.)

I hope you big enough to admit to what you just said is crazy.

[megadoc1]

Bizarre, i dont think you understand what he wrote.

He just admitted that there is no proof or evidence to anything he believes. Typical religious person.

wrong I never admitted that , what I am saying is that religion is faith based you hear and you believe or not believe ..if proof needs to be presented, there is no need for you to believe, you would know. right now there is no proof for or against what I believe
so I work on faith

[Bizzare]

If you have proof, U HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE UNLESS YOU'RE CRAZY !!!
megadoc1, I repeat - IF YOU HAVE PROOF FOR SOMETHING, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE UNLESS YOU ARE CRAZY

Someone can obtain proof and believe but still choose not to follow. That's a difference. They know the truth is the truth, but have chosen not to follow.


However, If you have proof, you wouldn't have to have faith? In fact, having proof means you can no longer have faith!!. As I said, faith requires lack of proof. When proof is present, you can no longer have faith.


Are you willing to admit that what you meant to say is:
this question does not make sense! If I had proof I would not need to have faith

or are you going to stand by that foolish statement you just made that goes like:
this question does not make sense! If I had proof I would not need to believe

[Bizzare]

megadoc1, I hope you think about what you just said. Someone who has proof, has no choice in believing. I dunno, but what you just said there means that you'll come home and see yuh wife taking another man, shut the door and say "nah, I still doh believe she cheating on meh"

If you have proof in something you have no choice but to believe

[megadoc1]

you are mixing believing and knowing

lemme take u up on this edit.

U r the one mixing believing and having faith
What you just described is having faith. You can only have faith when there is no proof. If proof is present, u cannot have faith. Faith requires lack of proof. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If there is a God, and he shows his face, we can no longer have faith.

faith does not require proof or lack of proof !
why are you borrowing from the bible to make a point? you have proof that that statement is truth?
I agree with you tough, if God shows his face I no longer need faith! so until that time I am keeping the faith

Now that we have proof, we can only BELIEVE. We can no longer have faith!!!

yes! the day He shows His face that would be the case but for now we believe and hope and love when he comes we would only need to love as we no longer need faith or hope

U sir, r the one mixing belief with faith. If you have proof in something, u have to be crazy to disbelieve. So what you just told me there, that if you had proof you wouldn't have to believe, I think you are a bit crazy. Get urself checked

I think you don't understand a simple concept .

If you have proof that ur wife is really a women, u have to belief. U have to be VERY CRAZY to see a vagina and say, I don't believe she is a woman. (oh and please don't get technical about sex change and what not. u know where I'm coming from. There's proof for all that too.)

breds If I see a vagina I do not need to believe it is a lady but if there is an adams apple and I am concerned, yet thirsty, faith would definitely play a part there! if you know what I mean

I hope you big enough to admit to what you just said is crazy.

I hope you are big enough to admit that you are discussing a topic above your comprehension

[megadoc1]

megadoc1, I hope you think about what you just said. Someone who has proof, has no choice in believing. I dunno, but what you just said there means that you'll come home and see yuh wife taking another man, shut the door and say "nah, I still doh believe she cheating on meh"

If you have proof in something you have no choice but to believe

you are in error friend you don't understand the concept of believing or faith vs knowledge or facts
go research this and get back to me

[marlener]

I think that I actually agree with Bizzare here,we have faith in things and God and when he provides proof is strenghten our faith in him and the things he is capable of doing.People however get proof and close their eyes and are unwiling to admit that they believe they simple find another explaination for it.

[Bizzare]

Ok, now I see you're just another AdamB. Dude, if you cannot take what I said and see the truth in it, I see what your approach is towards Christianity and there is no way anyone will be able to enlighten you cuz what YOU believe is the final truth and even if you do see the truth, you'll counter it out of sheer arrogance

faith does not require proof or lack of proof !

dude, if faith is the evidence of things not seen, [according to your own bible] OF COURSE THERE MUST BE SOME LACK OF PROOF FOR FAITH TO EXIST. Isn't that thing that is described as "not seen" part of the proof????? Wow, you're even worse than AdamB man.

[megadoc1]

Are you willing to admit that what you meant to say is:
this question does not make sense! If I had proof I would not need to have faith

or are you going to stand by that foolish statement you just made that goes like:
this question does not make sense! If I had proof I would not need to believe

are you trying to save face using semantics? lol

[megadoc1]

I think that I actually agree with Bizzare here,we have faith in things and God and when he provides proof is strenghten our faith in him and the things he is capable of doing.People however get proof and close their eyes and are unwiling to admit that they believe they simple find another explaination for it.

true but read how this started, does God have to provide proof before you to believe the gospel? I am not discussing any experience I might have had after I believed

[Bizzare]

Lol OMG?!!?? I am not the one who chose the meanings of those words. They mean what they mean. Then again, you would see the meaning of a word in the dictionary and say "nah, I don't believe that's the meaning"

This shouldn't come as a shocker to me though. This isn't the first time I've seen you stare common sense, simple logic and truth in the face and chose NOT TO BELIEVE...... but now I've seen why. You are a person who chooses not to believe even when there is proof.

Apparently you find joy in HAVING FAITH... you know? Believing in some unknown. I swore you'd take what I said an admit that saying "you don't need to believe in something that has been proven" as nonsense. But is Megadoc1, let arrogance prevail

[marlener]

No he does not,but I believed it in faith and through earnest prayer and study he strengthen my faith in him and revealed evidence of his presence and his love for mankind, I have seen that anyhting that God has done man has sort to explain away as a natural occurrance through science,chances,folly,and other methods,the time will come however when ALL will admit that he is God.In the meantime the are free to choose, God in his love and mercy allow the rain to fall on the just and unjust.

[megadoc1]

bizarre what is a believer?.... take a browse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_in_Christianity

The word "faith", translated from the Greek πιστις (pi'stis), was primarily used in the New Testament with the Greek perfect tense and translates as a noun-verb hybrid; which is not adequately conveyed by the English noun. The verb form of pi'stis is pisteuo, which is often translated into English versions of the New Testament as 'believe'. The adjectival form, pistos, is almost always translated as 'faithful'. The New Testament writers, following the translators of the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) rendered words in the Hebrew scriptures that concerned 'faithfulness' using pi'stis-group words. The pi'stis-group words are most appropriately translated into English by a range of words, depending on the context in which they occur. In both the New Testament and other Greek texts, pi'stis describes connections of firmness that can form between a wide variety of entities: people, traditions, practices, groups, purposes, facts or propositions. The appropriate English translation is often evident from the relationship between the two entities connected by pi'stis. The pi'stis-group words in the New Testament can thus be interpreted as relating to ideas of faithfulness, fidelity, loyalty, commitment, trust, belief, and proof. The most appropriate interpretation and translation of pi'stis-group words in the New Testament is a matter of recent controversy, particularly over the meaning of pi'stis when it is directed towards Jesus.[3]

[Bizzare]

Megadoc1 is simply confirming my beliefs towards religious people as AdamB did also. I can tell you are only finding comfort in what you believe. Nothing more than that. It's doesn't even have to make sense to you and it isn't a matter of finding truth either. All that matters to you is escaping reality and having faith in some unknown and that special feeling that you're always in communication with this unknown being in the midst of trouble. To me, I think that this feeling is what makes religion necessary for society, else we'd have a lot more suicides, murders etc especially when relationships go sour. All my exes turn Christian when we broke up and always readin ah Joel Osteen book. It's only a comfort. I'm glad that you have something to rely if your wife were to ever horn you. But then again, you wouldn't believe she is doing so, despite having proof in your face.

Hope you can take light humor without being offended.

[Bizzare]

If I had proof I would not need to believe

I just re-read this post and it's even worse. You're implying that you can only believe when there is no proof, but when proof is present, you do not need to believe??!?!!?
Isn't it the other way around????

Were you born in front a mirror?

[marlener]

I think Christians tend to get offend to easily when someone question their beliefs,everyone questions God at one time or another,even the prophets in the bible. it's human nature,something God himself created us with.When the person is earnest in the searching and question God will show them what is necessary.That is why in every religion there are persons who worship God sincerely and are questioning and being answered daily.

[megadoc1]

Megadoc1 is simply confirming my beliefs towards religious people as AdamB did also.

its ok for you to have an opinion

I can tell you are only finding comfort in what you believe. Nothing more than that.

can I borrow that crystal ball?

It's doesn't even have to make sense to you and it isn't a matter of finding truth either. All that matters to you is escaping reality and having faith in some unknown and that special feeling that you're always in communication with this unknown being in the midst of trouble.

wow! and you believe that?..ok then

To me, I think that this feeling is what makes religion necessary for society, else we'd have a lot more suicides, murders etc especially when relationships go sour.

its a good thing we not going by your gut feeling worst yet what you think!

All my exes turn Christian when we broke up and always readin ah Joel Osteen book. It's only a comfort.

so thats what makes you an expert on these issues?

I'm glad that you have something to rely if your wife were to ever horn you. But then again, you wouldn't believe she is doing so, despite having proof in your face.

ok

Hope you can take light humor without being offended.

oh! you are new here I see...any ways go study what we were discussing

[Bizzare]

Christians these days are never going to openly question God. There is always an answer whether right or wrong, and whatever question cannot be answered in a public domain, faith is usually the scapegoat cuz they're to arrogant to say , you know what, I should really research so and so in the bible, get my facts right, and get back to you. Arrogance is a main characteristic that I've seen in every strong believer of every religion.

[megadoc1]

If I had proof I would not need to believe

I just re-read this post and it's even worse. You're implying that you can only believe when there is no proof, but when proof is present, you do not need to believe??!?!!?
Isn't it the other way around????

Were you born in front a mirror?

you still not understanding go find out what this means

[marlener]

I will admit I don't know everything and there are secret things that belong to God and we will never know till,but I am not going to claim to know everything or try to defend God because as I said in my first post God needs no defending.

[Bizzare]

but marlener, what convinced you to be 100% sure that there is a God and that you're serving him the right way (through Christianity). Or are you just believing that this is the truth with no proof but you hope to die and enter heaven one day IF such exists.

[megadoc1]

Christians these days are never going to openly question God.

breds how you does come to these conclusions?

There is always an answer whether right or wrong, and whatever question cannot be answered in a public domain,

what?

faith is usually the scapegoat cuz they're to arrogant to say

a scapegoat from what?

cuz they're to arrogant to sayyou know what, I should really research so and so in the bible, get my facts right, and get back to you.

that is what you should have done before you embarrass yourself here!!! go find out if proof is needed to establish faith ,then you will see your fallacy

Arrogance is a main characteristic that I've seen in every strong believer of every religion.

probably that's what you are looking for but tell me, are you assuming that I a strong believer? ..........be mature and discuss ..don't turn to such issues that brings nothing to the conversation

[Bizzare]

When I use the word "strong", it means one who believes fully without doubt. Aren't you that type of Christian?

[megadoc1]

but marlener, what convinced you to be 100% sure that there is a God and that you're serving him the right way (through Christianity). Or are you just believing that this is the truth with no proof but you hope to die and enter heaven one day IF such exists.

and he continues with the fallacy

[marlener]

Answered prayer,faith,personal experiences over a period of time,that I have questioned,my experiences may mean nothing to another because the may not understand or agree with the circumstances,same way someone who don't believe may say lack of clear proof as that they may use as 100 percent proof that he does not exist.Question Bizzare do you believe 100 percent that God does not exist?

[megadoc1]

When I use the word "strong", it means one who believes fully without doubt. Aren't you that type of Christian?

no you just disqualified me by your definition as I had my share of doubts

[Bizzare]

Answered prayer,faith,personal experiences over a period of time,that I have questioned,my experiences may mean nothing to another because the may not understand or agree with the circumstances,same way someone who don't believe may say lack of clear proof as that they may use as 100 percent proof that he does not exist.Question Bizzare do you believe 100 percent that God does not exist?

Never!! You would never ever ever hear me say that I believe that there isn't a God unless such has been proven. And I don't see how that can be proven in a man's lifetime cuz the only way to know is to die. I would be just as arrogant as the religious believers in this thread if I make such a claim.


Everything that I know or believe in has been passed on to me by another man, ANOTHER HUMAN, who is prone to error and corruption. How can I take a book passed on to me by my father and mother and swear by that book if there was nothing in my life to prove it to be the truth. If AdamB and Megadoc1 never obtained a holy book or holy teaching from ANOTHER MAN, they themselves would be ignorant towards what the believe in. They did not obtain their knowledge through divine intervention. They got it from ANOTHER MAN. How can you be so arrogant to take a book passed on by MAN [who is subject to error and corruption] and live by it with your noses stuck up in the air and dismissing anything that says otherwise. Even in the midst of little to no proof for what they believe in?

[megadoc1]

Answered prayer,faith,personal experiences over a period of time,that I have questioned,my experiences may mean nothing to another because the may not understand or agree with the circumstances,same way someone who don't believe may say lack of clear proof as that they may use as 100 percent proof that he does not exist.Question Bizzare do you believe 100 percent that God does not exist?

Never!! You would never ever ever hear me say that I believe that there isn't a God unless such has been proven. And I don't see how that can be proven in a man's lifetime cuz the only way to know is to die. I would be just as arrogant as the religious believers in this thread if I make such a claim.


Everything that I know or believe in has been passed on to me by another man, ANOTHER HUMAN, who is prone to error and corruption. How can I take a book passed on to me by my father and mother and swear by that book if there was nothing in my life to prove it to be the truth. If AdamB and Megadoc1 never obtained a holy book or holy teaching from ANOTHER MAN, they themselves would be ignorant towards what the believe in. They did not obtain their knowledge through divine intervention. They got it from ANOTHER MAN. How can you be so arrogant to take a book passed on by MAN [who is subject to error and corruption] and live by it with your noses stuck up in the air and dismissing anything that says otherwise. Even in the midst of little to no proof for what they believe in?

well you are doing a bad job all by yourself
now you finding your self questioning how God chose to reveal himself to mankind ? ..hope you find what you are looking for, just be sure to write it down so that your children wont have to start from scratch ..kix

[Bizzare]

Megadoc1, do you believe in healing. Cuz I know there are Christians that don't. They believe either only Jesus could have done miracles or they only occurred in the olden days, although the bible says otherwise.... oh well.... so do you?

[marlener]

But you have heard persons say that there is no God haven't you? Are you fair to them as well in asking them what proof they have? I find that some people are annoyed that Christians have hope or some faith in a God that they don't believe exist. Strangely though some will call out to a God they don't believe exist if they are in a life and death situation