.::The Official General Election 2015 Thread::.

[The_Honourable]

QUESTION: How come the extra hour for voting was only "illegal" in 6 marginal seats according to the UNC?...
If the "rule of law" excuse is valid for 6 marginals, then it should be true for ALL other constituencies in Trinidad... Not so?

With the UNC in disarray with old allies now open enemies... and the "late" COP like "used" toilet paper... the PM should call a snap Election if the UNC wins. There will never be a better opportunity to strengthen their position.

"Be careful what you ask for... YOU MIGHT GET IT!"...

Possible 2016 ELECTION RESULTS (after irritating the electorate even more with Budget revelations)...
PNM = 31... UNC = 10... Total PNM constitutional majority in Parliament...
"Election defeat #6" for Kamla to stick in her chillum an' smoke!...

This would be a good move on Rowley's part, but what is happening in the UNC now is joke compared to what is going to happen in the close future. Rowley could strike then once the PNM doesn't change the mood of the population in a short space of time like what the PP did. He can strike and win Local Government Elections next year easily because UNC would be in deep bobol by then.

[Trinispougla]

As I said to prove that over three thousand people voted for you in the last hour has to be proven. Even if 1000 signed affidavits are brought to court, it simply would not be enough. The closest to three thousand after that was 2800 in la horquetta talparo. That amount of people could vote in an hour. The may have a chance with morouga tableland but I don't see that winning either

[Redman]

The volume is one thing.
How does the UNC prove how the volume voted?

Is there a legitimate method to determine that X party was ahead at Y hr?

[Trinispougla]

Idk patna. But I guess how much people voted after six has to be considered. And as I said, at the best of times it would be very difficult for 1500 people to vote in an hour. Its not like yuh walk into de boot and yuh vote. Yuh have to present ur I'd, plus yuh registration paper

[Chimera]

Would a affidavit even hold weight tho. Because it could be 1000 or 5000 ppl who vote earlier in the day claiming they were going to vote in the evening. When you vote, I don't think a time is noted

[RBphoto]

I see no reason why the EBC and the PNM should stop the process of the UNC contesting the decision in the courts. They should instead pay for television coverage and make the proceedings public so we can see the extent of the BS arguments and bellyaching from the UNC lawyers. Even if the UNC wins in court they will lose credibility in those seats.

[Trinispougla]

Would a affidavit even hold weight tho. Because it could be 1000 or 5000 ppl who vote earlier in the day claiming they were going to vote in the evening. When you vote, I don't think a time is noted

They can't do that because they would know if you voted or not, just like e.g they know i did not vote

[Habit7]

So UNC best case scenario, there is a by-election, UNC wins all 6 seats and forms the govt.

Kamla said she is not working with Moonilal, Gopeesingh and by-election wins Bharath, Sancho and Seemungal. What kinda govt she intends to form?

[Sanctifier]

^ ^ ^ What kinda govt she intends to form?... Much the same as the last attempt... with the same result @ the polls too!

Who say Barry for AG?... Yup, no legal training... what about Rodney then? IMHO one clown is as good as another.
If they could put "The Virgin" with little or no legal experience, then anything is possible with Kamla.

[zoom rader]

I really dont see this having any success. The pp lost by some heavy margins in four of the six constituencies. OVER 3500 IN TUNAPUNA, over 4 thousand in toco sangre-grande, over 3500 in tunapuna, over 4 thousand in sando west. But this is a strange land and stranger things have happened

It's not a matter of success.
It's to make sure that the EBC and the PNM Can't do as they please where the rule of law is concerned.

but ent Kams's plan to get back in office and discredit PNM to say "dey got ting by fraud!"? if they rule to clarify how EBC annonuce ting, then this plan won't work.

This is not a plan
It's about maintaining the rule of law.
This must never happen again. EBC and PNM Can not do as they please

This has nothing to do with rule of law. The fact is they're seeking an annulment of the election results in 6 marginals chief. If the shoe was on the other foot, there would be no rule of law argument. Nobody would have been going to the courts to verify the powers of the ebc. As i said, the numbers in 4 of the marginals are pretty damming, i can't see them securing an annulment but as i also said, stranger things have happened

It has nothing to do if the shoe was on the other foot and marginals.

It's make sure that the EBC and PNM Dont ever pull a stunt like this again.
It can happen to any other party

ZR, yuh really think if they had won, we wudda had did drama Patna? But anyway, as i said, proving that the result would have been different in those marginals save morouga going to be rell difficult. Even if they get 1000 sworn statements in five of the six, it would not prove anything as the defeats in the next five was very heavy. But i agree with you, the ebc rwally does need clarification on its remit and powers.

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.

[Trinispougla]

I really dont see this having any success. The pp lost by some heavy margins in four of the six constituencies. OVER 3500 IN TUNAPUNA, over 4 thousand in toco sangre-grande, over 3500 in tunapuna, over 4 thousand in sando west. But this is a strange land and stranger things have happened

It's not a matter of success.
It's to make sure that the EBC and the PNM Can't do as they please where the rule of law is concerned.

but ent Kams's plan to get back in office and discredit PNM to say "dey got ting by fraud!"? if they rule to clarify how EBC annonuce ting, then this plan won't work.

This is not a plan
It's about maintaining the rule of law.
This must never happen again. EBC and PNM Can not do as they please

This has nothing to do with rule of law. The fact is they're seeking an annulment of the election results in 6 marginals chief. If the shoe was on the other foot, there would be no rule of law argument. Nobody would have been going to the courts to verify the powers of the ebc. As i said, the numbers in 4 of the marginals are pretty damming, i can't see them securing an annulment but as i also said, stranger things have happened

It has nothing to do if the shoe was on the other foot and marginals.

It's make sure that the EBC and PNM Dont ever pull a stunt like this again.
It can happen to any other party

ZR, yuh really think if they had won, we wudda had did drama Patna? But anyway, as i said, proving that the result would have been different in those marginals save morouga going to be rell difficult. Even if they get 1000 sworn statements in five of the six, it would not prove anything as the defeats in the next five was very heavy. But i agree with you, the ebc rwally does need clarification on its remit and powers.

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.[/quot
Energy prices down, Iran coming on the market, we have low production and prices not high enough to encourage deep water drilling, meaning production will be less than usual until the prices go up and we make a find, and the actions of the EBC are of utmost importance, right? ZR MAKE SOME SENSE FOR ONCE NAH

[zoom rader]

[quote="Trinispougla"]I really dont see this having any success. The pp lost by some heavy margins in four of the six constituencies. OVER 3500 IN TUNAPUNA, over 4 thousand in toco sangre-grande, over 3500 in tunapuna, over 4 thousand in sando west. But this is a strange land and stranger things have happened

It's not a matter of success.
It's to make sure that the EBC and the PNM Can't do as they please where the rule of law is concerned.

but ent Kams's plan to get back in office and discredit PNM to say "dey got ting by fraud!"? if they rule to clarify how EBC annonuce ting, then this plan won't work.

This is not a plan
It's about maintaining the rule of law.
This must never happen again. EBC and PNM Can not do as they please

This has nothing to do with rule of law. The fact is they're seeking an annulment of the election results in 6 marginals chief. If the shoe was on the other foot, there would be no rule of law argument. Nobody would have been going to the courts to verify the powers of the ebc. As i said, the numbers in 4 of the marginals are pretty damming, i can't see them securing an annulment but as i also said, stranger things have happened

It has nothing to do if the shoe was on the other foot and marginals.

It's make sure that the EBC and PNM Dont ever pull a stunt like this again.
It can happen to any other party

ZR, yuh really think if they had won, we wudda had did drama Patna? But anyway, as i said, proving that the result would have been different in those marginals save morouga going to be rell difficult. Even if they get 1000 sworn statements in five of the six, it would not prove anything as the defeats in the next five was very heavy. But i agree with you, the ebc rwally does need clarification on its remit and powers.

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.[/quot
Energy prices down, Iran coming on the market, we have low production and prices not high enough to encourage deep water drilling, meaning production will be less than usual until the prices go up and we make a find, and the actions of the EBC are of utmost importance, right? ZR MAKE SOME SENSE FOR ONCE NAH[/quote]


Not sure if you aware that the UK is about to bomb ISIS in Syria.
Oil prices should be interesting.



RE: Oil News
"That is raising concerns that prices could suddenly rocket higher some time in the future. In October, Barclays issued a research note concluding that current oil price levels are too low to encourage U.S. producers to invest in bringing enough production online in the medium term, thereby setting up a potential supply shortfall and corresponding price spike.

"The lower oil prices go today, the higher they will likely go in the coming years."

Intervale's Cherington told CNBC that such a reversal may not be far off.

"There's this production hangover now, but if you look forward to 2017 and '18, we're going to have the opposite problem, and you're going to see a real shortage because all this capex reduction today is going to lead to lower output in a couple of years," he said.

"The worse it is and the longer it lasts, the more acute the shortfall will be in a couple of years," he said. "It's kind of ironic." "

[Trinispougla]

That isn't going to change the glut on the market. There are still a couple billion barrels of oil on the market from saudi arabia and the other opec countries. Iran is going to enter the market next year.
Even when the price rebounds in late 2017 /18, the price is going to be uneconomic, some analysts say over 200 dollars a barrel.
Even if the ebc went outside its remit, the only way the election result can be annulled is if they can provide material evidence that the result would have been different had that breach not taken place

[teems1]

Rowley should just call a snap election, and win again. This time no interference from EBC with respect to the polling times.

Get this sheit over and done with one time.

[EmilioA]

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.

That real nice of the UNC boy. I sure if they get a rule in they favour they go tell the EBC not to run any bye election so the country could save some money.

[eitech]

What tata i reading here? Of course ppl WANT to get back in government and run d show. Lmao

[Bezman]

if this had anything to do with the EBC's legality to delay closing of polls it would be recalled in all divisions, and not just 6...

if you belive any different you are a kakahole..

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

if this had anything to do with the EBC's legality to delay closing of polls it would be recalled in all divisions, and not just 6...

if you belive any different you are a kakahole..

[zoom rader]

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.

That real nice of the UNC boy. I sure if they get a rule in they favour they go tell the EBC not to run any bye election so the country could save some money.

Remember its not only the UNC that filed petitions .

THE ISSUE

The UNC filed the petitions after its 23-18 defeat, claiming that the EBC’s rules and the Constitution give the EBC only the power to adjourn an election in instances of public violence and not the power to extend the traditional election timeframe of 6 am to 6 pm.

The party is seeking to have the court declare the results in six marginal constituencies null and void, paving the way for re-elections in those constituencies.

The disputed constituencies are San Fernando West, La Horquetta/Talparo, Toco/Sangre Grande, Tunapuna, St Joseph and Moruga/Tableland. Three citizens—Ravi Balgobin Maharaj, Irwin Layne and Melissa Sylvan—have also filed private lawsuits challenging the EBC’s decision.

Maharaj, an activist who attempted a hunger strike to convince environmentalist Dr Wayne Kublalsingh to end his, is challenging the EBC’s power to grant an extension.

Layne and Sylvan, both from Tobago, are claiming that the EBC’s breached their constitutional rights by only extending the poll in Trinidad. The petitions, and both lawsuits have been assigned to Justice Mira Dean-Armourer. The first hearing of Layne and Sylvan’s case is scheduled to take place this afternoon

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2015-11- ... ons-appeal

Tobago was excluded and seems EBC focused there attentions on the Six seats in dispute.

Meanwhile as I said it has nothing todo with the outcome of the Elections, its more about the legality of the EBC as appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar had this to say.

Delivering their majority decision, appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar suggested that qualitative issues needed to be considered in determining the impact of the EBC’s decision and not just the quantitative consequences on whether the PNM attained its majority in the six disputed marginal constituencies during this period.

“Such a position elevates outcome as absolutely determinative of legitimacy and discards process as of no or little consequence. Therein lies a path to undemocratic rule,” Jamadar said as he suggested that the purpose of the petitions was to ensure public confidence in the electorial process.
Jamadar added: “It appears to me the main reason for the divisions of opinion is based on fundamental ideological difference on the core purpose of the representation petitions.”

While Mendonca and Jamadar came to the same decision, Mendonca gave slightly different reasoning.

Stating that the UNC would have had difficulties gathering the evidence required through Archie’s analysis during the brief limitation period allowed for filing petitions, Mendonca said the party had presented sufficient details to warrant Dean-Armour’s decision to grant leave.

“If an election has been conducted so as to not be in substantial compliance with the laws of this country it is impossible to say that the result was not materially affected,” Mendonca said as he noted that the claims were not frivolous or vexatious.

Make what you want of it as they are Just Judges

[bluesclues]

I really dont see this having any success. The pp lost by some heavy margins in four of the six constituencies. OVER 3500 IN TUNAPUNA, over 4 thousand in toco sangre-grande, over 3500 in tunapuna, over 4 thousand in sando west. But this is a strange land and stranger things have happened

It's not a matter of success.
It's to make sure that the EBC and the PNM Can't do as they please where the rule of law is concerned.

but ent Kams's plan to get back in office and discredit PNM to say "dey got ting by fraud!"? if they rule to clarify how EBC annonuce ting, then this plan won't work.

This is not a plan
It's about maintaining the rule of law.
This must never happen again. EBC and PNM Can not do as they please

in summary nothing gonna come of it really. unc knows they cant win anything again. kamla just sounds delusional. like she ent wake up from the shock that she got the boot yet. still home in she bed sleeping and dreaming she is still the pm.

basically is a grand charge to make the ebc check itself and establish what it can and cannot do regarding time extension. a strategic block on 'next time'. but what does it matter. they really think anyone gonna vote for unc in the future? afaic kamla killed the party and the cabal sucked it dry. now our options are to still vote for one of the cabal members because obviously is the big boys in the party that will even be able to contest that position. a bunch of clones to provide the illusion that u getting something clean cut. when in reality is just perfume they trying to spray on a fat load.

i feel unc dead inno. i just feel so. all the members, every last one have to exit and be replaced for unc to get another shot.... in about 20 years.

[RASC]

Are UNC party funds being used for this?

[Sanctifier]

^ ^ ^ What party funds?... 'Dey tief dat too!

[Slartibartfast]

They should just call a re-election. The blatant racism from many UNC supporters and Kamla's unsavory attitude after losing would be enough to push enough people that were on the fence over on to the PNM side to make it a landslide victory.

[K74T]

^ ^ ^ What party funds?... 'Dey tief dat too!

[Trinispougla]

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.

That real nice of the UNC boy. I sure if they get a rule in they favour they go tell the EBC not to run any bye election so the country could save some money.

Remember its not only the UNC that filed petitions .

THE ISSUE

The UNC filed the petitions after its 23-18 defeat, claiming that the EBC’s rules and the Constitution give the EBC only the power to adjourn an election in instances of public violence and not the power to extend the traditional election timeframe of 6 am to 6 pm.

The party is seeking to have the court declare the results in six marginal constituencies null and void, paving the way for re-elections in those constituencies.

The disputed constituencies are San Fernando West, La Horquetta/Talparo, Toco/Sangre Grande, Tunapuna, St Joseph and Moruga/Tableland. Three citizens—Ravi Balgobin Maharaj, Irwin Layne and Melissa Sylvan—have also filed private lawsuits challenging the EBC’s decision.

Maharaj, an activist who attempted a hunger strike to convince environmentalist Dr Wayne Kublalsingh to end his, is challenging the EBC’s power to grant an extension.

Layne and Sylvan, both from Tobago, are claiming that the EBC’s breached their constitutional rights by only extending the poll in Trinidad. The petitions, and both lawsuits have been assigned to Justice Mira Dean-Armourer. The first hearing of Layne and Sylvan’s case is scheduled to take place this afternoon

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2015-11- ... ons-appeal

Tobago was excluded and seems EBC focused there attentions on the Six seats in dispute.

Meanwhile as I said it has nothing todo with the outcome of the Elections, its more about the legality of the EBC as appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar had this to say.

Delivering their majority decision, appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar suggested that qualitative issues needed to be considered in determining the impact of the EBC’s decision and not just the quantitative consequences on whether the PNM attained its majority in the six disputed marginal constituencies during this period.

“Such a position elevates outcome as absolutely determinative of legitimacy and discards process as of no or little consequence. Therein lies a path to undemocratic rule,” Jamadar said as he suggested that the purpose of the petitions was to ensure public confidence in the electorial process.
Jamadar added: “It appears to me the main reason for the divisions of opinion is based on fundamental ideological difference on the core purpose of the representation petitions.”

While Mendonca and Jamadar came to the same decision, Mendonca gave slightly different reasoning.

Stating that the UNC would have had difficulties gathering the evidence required through Archie’s analysis during the brief limitation period allowed for filing petitions, Mendonca said the party had presented sufficient details to warrant Dean-Armour’s decision to grant leave.

“If an election has been conducted so as to not be in substantial compliance with the laws of this country it is impossible to say that the result was not materially affected,” Mendonca said as he noted that the claims were not frivolous or vexatious.

Make what you want of it as they are Just Judges

Doctors busy killing babies in de hospitals and engineers busy burning off people's fingers and limbs too.That is garbage. The results of an election is decided by how much votes yuh get, not by how the election is organized. You don't win an election of any kind by determining how organized an election is. You win by the number of votes you garner. As i said, and you don't need to vote to know this, anything over 1500 votes is a definitive statement. At best, 3-400 vote per hour in any constituency, and that is provided. The only provision that allows for an annulment of an election is 35(3) which means you need to bring proof. The proof could never be sympathy for late knowledge, it has to be numerical analysis because that is what decides who wins and looses

[zoom rader]

I will say it again. This is not about who won or who loss and who wants to get back or retain government.

It's about the legality and the manner in which the extension of voting time that was allowed.

That real nice of the UNC boy. I sure if they get a rule in they favour they go tell the EBC not to run any bye election so the country could save some money.

Remember its not only the UNC that filed petitions .

THE ISSUE

The UNC filed the petitions after its 23-18 defeat, claiming that the EBC’s rules and the Constitution give the EBC only the power to adjourn an election in instances of public violence and not the power to extend the traditional election timeframe of 6 am to 6 pm.

The party is seeking to have the court declare the results in six marginal constituencies null and void, paving the way for re-elections in those constituencies.

The disputed constituencies are San Fernando West, La Horquetta/Talparo, Toco/Sangre Grande, Tunapuna, St Joseph and Moruga/Tableland. Three citizens—Ravi Balgobin Maharaj, Irwin Layne and Melissa Sylvan—have also filed private lawsuits challenging the EBC’s decision.

Maharaj, an activist who attempted a hunger strike to convince environmentalist Dr Wayne Kublalsingh to end his, is challenging the EBC’s power to grant an extension.

Layne and Sylvan, both from Tobago, are claiming that the EBC’s breached their constitutional rights by only extending the poll in Trinidad. The petitions, and both lawsuits have been assigned to Justice Mira Dean-Armourer. The first hearing of Layne and Sylvan’s case is scheduled to take place this afternoon

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2015-11- ... ons-appeal

Tobago was excluded and seems EBC focused there attentions on the Six seats in dispute.

Meanwhile as I said it has nothing todo with the outcome of the Elections, its more about the legality of the EBC as appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar had this to say.

Delivering their majority decision, appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar suggested that qualitative issues needed to be considered in determining the impact of the EBC’s decision and not just the quantitative consequences on whether the PNM attained its majority in the six disputed marginal constituencies during this period.

“Such a position elevates outcome as absolutely determinative of legitimacy and discards process as of no or little consequence. Therein lies a path to undemocratic rule,” Jamadar said as he suggested that the purpose of the petitions was to ensure public confidence in the electorial process.
Jamadar added: “It appears to me the main reason for the divisions of opinion is based on fundamental ideological difference on the core purpose of the representation petitions.”

While Mendonca and Jamadar came to the same decision, Mendonca gave slightly different reasoning.

Stating that the UNC would have had difficulties gathering the evidence required through Archie’s analysis during the brief limitation period allowed for filing petitions, Mendonca said the party had presented sufficient details to warrant Dean-Armour’s decision to grant leave.

“If an election has been conducted so as to not be in substantial compliance with the laws of this country it is impossible to say that the result was not materially affected,” Mendonca said as he noted that the claims were not frivolous or vexatious.

Make what you want of it as they are Just Judges

Doctors busy killing babies in de hospitals and engineers busy burning off people's fingers and limbs too.That is garbage. The results of an election is decided by how much votes yuh get, not by how the election is organized. You don't win an election of any kind by determining how organized an election is. You win by the number of votes you garner. As i said, and you don't need to vote to know this, anything over 1500 votes is a definitive statement. At best, 3-400 vote per hour in any constituency, and that is provided. The only provision that allows for an annulment of an election is 35(3) which means you need to bring proof. The proof could never be sympathy for late knowledge, it has to be numerical analysis because that is what decides who wins and looses

So you saying that appellate judges Allan Mendonca and Peter Jamadar judgment's are garbage.

If you and other tuners took the time to read what they said in Layman's terms to understand, it basically says its not about the outcome but about the laws that was broken as it say here again

Such a position elevates outcome as absolutely determinative of legitimacy and discards process as of no or little consequence. Therein lies a path to undemocratic rule,” [b]Jamadar said as he suggested that the purpose of the petitions was to ensure public confidence in the electorial process

[Trinispougla]

Actually I did read Justices Mendonca and Jamar's reports. I also know that even if elections rules are broken, there is only one provision for annulment in the whole Representation of the People Act and that is in section 35(3) and I am saying that to say that its not only numbers is wrong. An election is a numerical analysis of how popular you are with the voters. That provision is only provided when one shows that the RESULT of the election is compromised and shifted in the direction of one of the participants. I agree(I said this before) that the EBC's powers need to be seriously examined and definitively outlined as I do think they stepped out of line. But to say the shifted the result in favor of one party is wrong. That the UNC found out late is an administrative issue and anybody who went to or work in EBC realize it seriously disorganized and every election, the collect flack.

[De Dragon]

Had the EBC/PNM won, would the judges have been "right" then? So much of you calling for justice and when said justice is not to your liking, or in your favour, criticizing two of the most senior and learned judges in this country? If the PNM is so confident that there will be a victory for them, then let the law take its course.

[zoom rader]

Actually I did read Justices Mendonca and Jamar's reports. I also know that even if elections rules are broken, there is only one provision for annulment in the whole Representation of the People Act and that is in section 35(3) and I am saying that to say that its not only numbers is wrong. An election is a numerical analysis of how popular you are with the voters. That provision is only provided when one shows that the RESULT of the election is compromised and shifted in the direction of one of the participants. I agree(I said this before) that the EBC's powers need to be seriously examined and definitively outlined as I do think they stepped out of line. But to say the shifted the result in favor of one party is wrong. That the UNC found out late is an administrative issue and anybody who went to or work in EBC realize it seriously disorganized and every election, the collect flack.

A numbers game Yes, as I said and have being saying all along it does not matter who wins or who wants to retain power. Its the legality of the EBC, manner and method they applied. Most here don't understand that.

EBC should have nothing to worry about since they believe they acted upon powers given to them to make that decision. Its now for the legal minds to determine that fate.

[Trinispougla]

Firstly, I don't vote, I think the democratic process is a complete waste of time, giving voices to people who should not. Secondly, as I said, the fact that these two judges came with a totally different judgement is beyond me. The reasons for those judgements were even more absurd. Don't get me wrong, fairness would let the petitioners say their case. Mendonca's assertion that the result was materially affected, despite the overwhelming NUMERICAL evidence is stupifying. Jamadar virtually said the process was more important than the actual result, is also churlish, pretzel logic. While the process guarantees fairness, the investment is in the result of the election. Nobody wins an election and contests any administrative matter, certainly not in the third world. So as I said, to find out what powers the ebc has yes, that is a matter of utmost importance, but to annull the election no