The Religion Discussion

[pioneer]

Fellas calm it down please.
This is a discussion to learn about other's beliefs, query, put forward questions, answers and opinions.

Let us not degenerate into attacking.

You cannot claim they are intolerant when you are intolerant of them.

As adults we can have open logical and factual discussion without the hate and bigotry.

These Fellas here are COWARDS, afraid and insecure to reveal their beliefs (except a few who like Megadoc and the atheists).

So how can you have a proper discussion when all they want to do is take cheap shots.

ISLAM has nothing to HIDE for IT IS THE RELIGION / WAY OF LIFE ACCEPTABLE TO GOD ALMIGHTY.

DEAL WITH IT!!

Ummm you need to calm down, this not an al-qaeda get-together so be chill. Enough with the coward, infidel and kufar chanting ok?

Exactly who's not revealing their beliefs? By now I'd think you make have realized most people choose common sense and logic over religion?

Doesn't that spell it out for you?

[nareshseep]

[dregz]

AdamB what kind of muslim are you?
let me qualify my question, are you Sunni, Salafi or some other type of muslim?

I don't belong or follow a particular sect or group. I follow the Qur'aan and the AUTHENTIC SUNNAH of the prophet (and his rightly guided Caliphs). I don't follow a particular madhhab (school of thought), all of the 4 imams said that if authentic evidence (hadith) came to oppose their view or ruling, then to leave off their (imam's) opinion and follow it.

so for controversial issues like smoking, what is your opinion and how did you come about your opinion?

[De Dragon]

Everytime I look at this thread, I realize why I don't, or can't follow organized religion.

[d spike]

Classical Christian hogwash that the prophet Jesus never taught!!

Can you explain your argument here? What makes you think that Jesus never taught this?

You innovate thinking that you are better than Jesus himself and the early generations that followed him who were on the right path.

WHO SAID THEY WERE BETTER THAN JESUS???? (Apart from John Lennon... ) What makes you think that the early Christians thought differently? Have you studied their writings as well?

You innovated and strayed far from the right path. Your "Bible" scholars CHANGED THE WORDING AND MEANING of the GOSPEL OF JESUS.

Can you explain this?

http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_boo ... Christ.pdf

It is most unfortunate that you seem unable to present an rebuttal in this debate. Your ability to understand English needs some help, for I never asked you to suggest reading material, but for YOU to EXPLAIN - this means you use your own words to support your point of view...

Since the closest I will ever get to a rebuttal from AdamB is this document, then let me respond in turn:

This document AdamB offers in place of his tongue, is about a six-volume essay which was written in 1320 by Ibn Taimiyah of Damascus in response to a short treatise of 24 pages entitled “A Letter to a Muslim” by the Melkite bishop of Sidon, Paul of Antioch, who wrote his politely worded but ingeniously subversive letter about a century before.

Writing in Arabic, Paul of Antioch employed the personae of Christian scholars in Europe to demonstrate that in its own terms the Koran proves that Muḥammad was sent with an Arabic revelation to the pagan Arabs alone, and that its teachings give unmistakable indications that the main elements of Christian belief and practice are sound and God-given. Exactly when Paul wrote is not known, but a date in the latter years of the twelfth century seems best to fit the available evidence. This letter was circulated widely among both Christians and Muslims.

Paul's points were:
1. Muhammad was not sent to mankind, but rather to the pagan Arabs;
2. Prophet Muhammad extolled Christianity as a religion;
3. previous religions and scriptures bear testimony to the truth and validity of their religion;
4. Christians are monotheists;
5. the Christian belief concerning the Trinity is demonstrable by rational argumentation;
6. Christianity as a religion is perfected by Jesus who came after Moses and hence they are not in need of any new message or religion.

Ibn Taimiyah's treatise could be summed up simply:
As Christianity has stuff in it that isn't found in the Koran, therefore it is wrong.
Perhaps Christianity might have held truth when it started, but now it clearly is wrong. Why? See the point mentioned before for clarification.

(I hope you have at least read the BOOK, AdamB... rather than just the few cheaply mimeographed pages handed out after services to further bamboozle folks)

[d spike]

Sorry but we muslims don't need to be inhabited by the Holy spirit or speak in tongues or the like to have faith in what we believe.

Our basis is the REVEALED BOOK (OF GUIDANCE) FROM GOD and the EXAMPLE OF HIS PROPHET!!

We don't follow any man's desires or emotional exploits of unaware followers. No wishy-washy-shaky stuff, no-sir-ree.

If that's the case, then I guess I must be Muslim.

[Chimera]

Sorry but we muslims don't need to be inhabited by the Holy spirit or speak in tongues or the like to have faith in what we believe.

Our basis is the REVEALED BOOK (OF GUIDANCE) FROM GOD and the EXAMPLE OF HIS PROPHET!!

We don't follow any man's desires or emotional exploits of unaware followers. No wishy-washy-shaky stuff, no-sir-ree.

If that's the case, then I guess I must be Muslim.

what kind of pen did Allah use to write this book?

[hong kong phooey]

if your book right?--- where is there 2 main sects in Islam: Shia and Sunni

Why do Christians pray to Jesus instead of his father ? pray directly to the main man/woman/animal tree/ stone/whatever.

I'm the son of god why dont you guys pray to me and for 7% of your salary I will permit you a place in my heaven. Interested parties pm me, I will give you an account no

[De Dragon]

if your book right?--- where is there 2 main sects in Islam: Shia and Sunni

Why do Christians pray to Jesus instead of his father ? pray directly to the main man/woman/animal tree/ stone/whatever.

I'm the son of god why dont you guys pray to me and for 7% of your salary I will permit you a place in my heaven. Interested parties pm me, I will give you an account no

Yuh Sunday lunch bun' or wha'? How yuh bitey bitey so?

[pioneer]

Adam are you part of the wahabi movement?

[marlener]

I have been following this thread for a long time and it is sad to see the level of disrespect and ridicule so persons sink to to get their point across. For those who don`t believe in God there is no way the believes can convince them otherwise it`s fruitless and for those who do sincerely believe there is no way the atheist and agnostic can prove otherwise. i am curious as to who falls where and are convicted enough to state it. I am a Christian and my God needs no defending. Proceed gentlemen.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ thank you for your contribution Marlener

Why are you a Christian?

[De Dragon]

I have been following this thread for a long time and it is sad to see the level of disrespect and ridicule so persons sink to to get their point across. For those who don`t believe in God there is no way the believes can convince them otherwise it`s fruitless and for those who do sincerely believe there is no way the atheist and agnostic can prove otherwise. i am curious as to who falls where and are convicted enough to state it. I am a Christian and my God needs no defending. Proceed gentlemen.

Playing Devil's(pardon the expression) advocate here, but when you lifting weights and thing, isn't that vanity which is displeasing in God's eye?

[brams112]

Maybe the individual was born that way or born again as they say?^^

[De Dragon]

Maybe the individual was born that way or born again as they say?^^

I think GaGa is also not of God..............

[marlener]

It`s like me asking why are you alive Duane, I am a Christian because I choose to be,I have had many personal experience with God over my life time and have developed a relationship with him I recognise his voice as well as a man may recognise the voice of his wife in a crowd,I respect the views of the atheists and agnostics and while I may not agree with them I treat them with the respect they deserve.I think that the problem that many people have is that they try to convert people to a particular religion and that is not their job,they can however share their experiences if the person is WILLING to hear. May I humbly ask what is ur persuasion and why if you care to share along with anyone else who may care to share before they proceed to bash my response to ur question.

[De Dragon]

Presbyterian here.

[nareshseep]

Follower of the church of the flying spaghetti monster

[marlener]

Thank you kind sir, anyone else,the atheist,agnostics,undecisive.I will answer ur question Dragon but I don`t wish to hijack the thread.Still trying to figure out what the other bloggers believe not jumping to any conclusion or assuming anything from pervious posts.

[De Dragon]

Thank you kind sir, anyone else,the atheist,agnostics,undecisive.I will answer ur question Dragon but I don`t wish to hijack the thread.Still trying to figure out what the other bloggers believe not jumping to any conclusion or assuming anything from pervious posts.

No scene, I pretty sure I know what that answer is going to be anyway..........

[Chimera]

[sensiman]

wwfsmd?

[AdamB]

AdamB what kind of muslim are you?
let me qualify my question, are you Sunni, Salafi or some other type of muslim?

I don't belong or follow a particular sect or group. I follow the Qur'aan and the AUTHENTIC SUNNAH of the prophet (and his rightly guided Caliphs). I don't follow a particular madhhab (school of thought), all of the 4 imams said that if authentic evidence (hadith) came to oppose their view or ruling, then to leave off their (imam's) opinion and follow it.

so for controversial issues like smoking, what is your opinion and how did you come about your opinion?

For those issues, I look at the opinions and rulings of the trusted scholars. Each issue has to have an analogy in which to be classified and there would have been a ruling in the time of the prophet.

We need to arrive at a ruling such as haraam, halaal, makhroo, etc. Evidence from the Quran and Sunnah has to be the basis of the ruling by the scholars.

Ijma' (concensus) of the ulema (scholars) is also a valid proof (though there may be differing views, it is.

Something that people do is just look at it from evidence but if you think a bit, you would see that if some of these controversial issues were so good then wouldn't the Companions, Taabieen and Taabat-Taabieen be the foremost in doing those acts. And if they did then there would be so many hadith to support it that even if the narrations were weak or hasan, then due to supporting narrations they would be upgraded to hasan or sahih respectively.

For smoking, I would ask:
Is it necessary?
Is it an intoxicant?
Is it an addiction?
Is it wasting money that could be better spent otherwise, like charity or one's family?
Is it proven medically to be harmful to the body?
What have the scholars ruled?

When I answer these questions, then I would choose my path to follow (as long as the issue is not one of 'aqeedah or 'ibaadah.)

My personal choice may tend to closer to one particular group but that does not mean that I am a follower of that group.

That's what I do, until I am qualified with intellect and knowledge and guidance by Allah to the contrary.

[maj. tom]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

It`s like me asking why are you alive Duane, I am a Christian because I choose to be

I didn't choose to be alive BTW, none of us did. I am sure we are all glad we are though.

and I am not sure why you think I am attacking you.

I asked why you were a Christian because this a discussion about religious beliefs and since you decided to share your religion with us, I was asking why did you choose that one.

I passed by the church that I took first communion in today while I was in Arima for the box kart derby, I haven't seen that church in decades.

[AdamB]

What amazes me is that this "religion discussion" thread is flooded with atheists!! If they are so sure of their disbelief, then what is it that motivates them to participate in this discussion?

(Some) Believers have a cause, which is to hope that disbelievers are guided to GOD Almighty. Why would the latter be bothered to even login and check what's going on here?

It just doesn't add up!!

Also, why isn't there more followers of religion? Like a couple of newbies, one who said he/she has been following this thread for a long time. Why haven't they participated before? Why aren't they participating?

[AdamB]

It`s like me asking why are you alive Duane, I am a Christian because I choose to be

I didn't choose to be alive BTW, none of us did. I am sure we are all glad we are though.

and I am not sure why you think I am attacking you.

I asked why you were a Christian because this a discussion about religious beliefs and since you decided to share your religion with us, I was asking why did you choose that one.

I passed by the church that I took first communion in today while I was in Arima for the box kart derby, I haven't seen that church in decades.

Was the wine much better than the bread?
Didn't you have a "personal relationship" with GOD after consuming the body and blood?

What I am asking is: are you a rum cork? And don't catholics have this "personal" thing with their god like other christian sects? If you didn't, was something wrong with you?

[dregz]

AdamB what kind of muslim are you?
let me qualify my question, are you Sunni, Salafi or some other type of muslim?

I don't belong or follow a particular sect or group. I follow the Qur'aan and the AUTHENTIC SUNNAH of the prophet (and his rightly guided Caliphs). I don't follow a particular madhhab (school of thought), all of the 4 imams said that if authentic evidence (hadith) came to oppose their view or ruling, then to leave off their (imam's) opinion and follow it.

so for controversial issues like smoking, what is your opinion and how did you come about your opinion?

For those issues, I look at the opinions and rulings of the trusted scholars. Each issue has to have an analogy in which to be classified and there would have been a ruling in the time of the prophet.

We need to arrive at a ruling such as haraam, halaal, makhroo, etc. Evidence from the Quran and Sunnah has to be the basis of the ruling by the scholars.

Ijma' (concensus) of the ulema (scholars) is also a valid proof (though there may be differing views, it is.

Something that people do is just look at it from evidence but if you think a bit, you would see that if some of these controversial issues were so good then wouldn't the Companions, Taabieen and Taabat-Taabieen be the foremost in doing those acts. And if they did then there would be so many hadith to support it that even if the narrations were weak or hasan, then due to supporting narrations they would be upgraded to hasan or sahih respectively.

For smoking, I would ask:
Is it necessary?
Is it an intoxicant?
Is it an addiction?
Is it wasting money that could be better spent otherwise, like charity or one's family?
Is it proven medically to be harmful to the body?
What have the scholars ruled?

When I answer these questions, then I would choose my path to follow (as long as the issue is not one of 'aqeedah or 'ibaadah.)

My personal choice may tend to closer to one particular group but that does not mean that I am a follower of that group.

That's what I do, until I am qualified with intellect and knowledge and guidance by Allah to the contrary.

In a previous reply you indicated that you do not follow a particular school of thought, please correct me if i am wrong kind Sir. As such one of my questions is, Who are the scholars and where will I find their consensus?

[daniel135]

i dont believe in hell but believe that it hv a god what that makes me ?

[AdamB]

AdamB what kind of muslim are you?
let me qualify my question, are you Sunni, Salafi or some other type of muslim?

I don't belong or follow a particular sect or group. I follow the Qur'aan and the AUTHENTIC SUNNAH of the prophet (and his rightly guided Caliphs). I don't follow a particular madhhab (school of thought), all of the 4 imams said that if authentic evidence (hadith) came to oppose their view or ruling, then to leave off their (imam's) opinion and follow it.

so for controversial issues like smoking, what is your opinion and how did you come about your opinion?

For those issues, I look at the opinions and rulings of the trusted scholars. Each issue has to have an analogy in which to be classified and there would have been a ruling in the time of the prophet.

We need to arrive at a ruling such as haraam, halaal, makhroo, etc. Evidence from the Quran and Sunnah has to be the basis of the ruling by the scholars.

Ijma' (concensus) of the ulema (scholars) is also a valid proof (though there may be differing views, it is.

Something that people do is just look at it from evidence but if you think a bit, you would see that if some of these controversial issues were so good then wouldn't the Companions, Taabieen and Taabat-Taabieen be the foremost in doing those acts. And if they did then there would be so many hadith to support it that even if the narrations were weak or hasan, then due to supporting narrations they would be upgraded to hasan or sahih respectively.

For smoking, I would ask:
Is it necessary?
Is it an intoxicant?
Is it an addiction?
Is it wasting money that could be better spent otherwise, like charity or one's family?
Is it proven medically to be harmful to the body?
What have the scholars ruled?

When I answer these questions, then I would choose my path to follow (as long as the issue is not one of 'aqeedah or 'ibaadah.)

My personal choice may tend to closer to one particular group but that does not mean that I am a follower of that group.

That's what I do, until I am qualified with intellect and knowledge and guidance by Allah to the contrary.

In a previous reply you indicated that you do not follow a particular school of thought, please correct me if i am wrong kind Sir. As such one of my questions is, Who are the scholars and where will I find their consensus?

Ikhlas for the sake of Allah and 'Ittibah of the Messenger will lead to them.

Also, the scholars will know the scholars. Think about it.

Why call me KIND Sir?