The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

I do not know where you get your information from, but to get accurate information on what JW's really believe, talk to them or visit the official website.

I have been talking to JW from 25 yrs ago, and the same guy (and others) regularly when they visit over the last few yrs. The younger ones always bring back the more experienced ones after they meet and have discussions with me. lol

[AdamB]

Some things in the bible are not literal, when Jesus spoke he used illustrations so that the people of his day could understand what he was talking about.\

So how exactly do you choose what is literal and what isn't?

Make the text obsolete and send down a new book with straight talk, no parables / beating around the bush.

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

[AdamB]

Can the concept of time be applied / subjected to GOD? He created time. He said the son of Adam abuses Him by his abuse of time.

GOD has informed us that the question "Who created GOD?" Is from the Whisper of Satan.
(Muslim perspective).

God has said...god has informed us....


just curious again, where did GOD say and inform us ? in the flawed MAN-MADE koran,bible, all other holy books?

This is like the whisper of the jinn... Evil from among jinn and from among man...

LOL

i may have misunderstood but did you just say my completely logical question is like the whisper of the jinn? and its a evil question?

YES!! TELL ME, WHAT CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION HAVE YOU ADDED TO THIS THREAD!!!! YOU JUST JUMP IN AND WHISPER WITH STUPID COMMENTS AND RHETORICAL IDIOTIC QUESTIONS.

I really was going to ignore you, will do that from now.

[RBphoto]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

LOL, yeah Adam, I always laugh when I see a Christian wearing a star of David. There are Christians I know who send money to Israel for "the chosen people" to "fight the holy war"... which basically says that they want Israel to kill and maim Islamic settlers/ squatters.

Funny enough, they think of Jews like Brahmins... god's chosen people, while a Jew would have nothing to do with their doctrine. If you bring up paralells to the caste system, they will bitterly deny that is the case. Essentially, any person can be "saved", but the Jews will get the VIP treatment in heaven.

[AdamB]

Because HE already has, the HOLY QUR'AAN!!!

Sir, i respect your right to your belief, i never said the Bible was superior to the Qur'aan, nor did i say the Bible is the only Holy book. I was just explaining what JW's beliefs are based on, as you did not seem to know. I respectfully asked you about the Qur'aan, i haven't recieved a response as yet. My objective is not to undermine any religion, just to explain mine. If you do not like it or disagree, fine, you hold that right as well. But just as i try to answer you, i expect the same.

Hey Pal, sorry I am fasting and was very busy with work and extra prayers at the masjid every night. Also other acts of worship like reading of the HOLY QUR'AAN in arabic because it is the word of ALMIGHTY GOD THAT HE SPOKE, TRULY.

I apologize, I did not intend to appear to be arrogant or disrespectful to you.

No true religious book is better than any one (so too the prophets of GOD). They all came from the same source. It's just that they have not all be kept in their original form, man has corrupted them to suit his fancies / desires.

The question is - Which is the book / law of GOD for man now? I submit to you that it is the Qur'aan. I will answer your question. I just ask that you be sincere and open your heart, seek GOD's guidance from HIM only. If Islam is the way HE (THE MOST HIGH) wants you to follow, then you will be guided to it.

I ask you to look again into the basis of the JW way and to see if those guys who started it had any real basis to do so. Yes they saw deficiencies in "christianity" but GOD knows that, that's why he sent His Messenger over 1400 yrs ago, when the way of Jesus was hijacked and set on a path away from unitarianism that would lead to certain destruction. This Messenger was the last of the prophets and was sent to all of mankind and jinn.


Unitarianism (ˌjuːnɪˈtɛərɪəˌnɪzəm)
— n
a system of Christian belief that maintains the unipersonality of God, rejects the Trinity and the divinity of Christ, and takes reason, conscience, and character as the criteria of belief and practice.

[RBphoto]

Oh, and thanks for the cliffs notes on Jinn. I was reading in some instances that they wer of "smoke" ie having no form, and in others where they were litterally physical beings "like snakes".

[learnsomething]For what it's worth, I think that makes them even more preposterous, but thanks for taking the time for clarifying. [/learnsomething]

[AdamB]

In harmony with that, Genesis 1:26 says:

"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Who was God talking to?

I do not know too much about islam, but i understand from a co-worker who is a well aged muslim, that muslims only validate the old testament. Is that true?

Firstly, the use of the plural first person singular and plural. We is used in place of I when referring to oneself and others that include the writer or speaker like 4 below.
The point of evidence here is the WE used in holy books /sovereigns is called the ROYAL WE. Is not ALMIGHTY GOD THE HIGHEST OF SOVEREIGNS?

we
   [wee] Show IPA

plural pronoun, possessive our or ours, objective us.
1. nominative plural of I.

2. (used to denote oneself and another or others): We have two children. In this block we all own our own houses.

3. (used to denote people in general): the marvels of science that we take for granted.

4. (used to indicate a particular profession, nationality, political party, etc., that includes the speaker or writer): We in the medical profession have moral responsibilities.

5. Also called the royal we. (used by a sovereign, or by other high officials and dignitaries, in place of I in formal speech): We do not wear this crown without humility.

Secondly, it is incorrect for anyone to say that muslims validate the Old Testament and not the new testament or any other scripture. We can only affirm based on evidence from valid sources of Islam (Qur'aan and Hadith) that revelations or books were given to prophets mentioned specifically. Examples are the "scrolls" of Abraham, "Zaboor / psalms" of David, "Tawrat / book/s of old testament" given to Moses and "Injeel / Gospel" given to Jesus.

It is the muslim view that all of these revelations have been changed by man or not preserved sufficiently so that they convey the message that had originally been intended. Some accounts may be correct while some may be changed but we have no way of knowing which have been tampered with. So we neither affirm nor dismiss. We do not take them for guidance or to establish religious legal matters.

Your debate with Megadoc1 is firm evidence in favour of this view. You guys have argued based on what? Where's the original scriptures in the original languages in which they were revealed? Who still understands these languages fully so that you can say that mistakes of misinterpretation will not be made. The christian "scholars" whose job is to correct "mistakes" in the bible? Each one correcting the one before who corrected the WORD OF GOD?

Let good sense prevail, examine the evidence and the truth will be on the horizon.

[Chimera]

[Dizzy28]

I guess we go lime .

But would either a Christian or Muslim say whose hell I would be in..............Muslim Hell or Christian Hell. Do they flip a coin for me?

[Humes]

YES!! TELL ME, WHAT CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION HAVE YOU ADDED TO THIS THREAD!!!!

Well yes.

[bluefete]

sorry for not responding to questions posted to me earlier....it's been a very bad week for me. My 13 year old daughter was threatening to commit suicide after she found out she was pregnant. We could not determine the father, as she admitted she has had 4 sexual partners in the last 2 months..........luckily we got the abortion done in time

BRUTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[megadoc1]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

your argument????????

[bluefete]

Stev: That can't be right. Remember all lifeforms came from the sea including the bugs. Thus they had to wait until the fish walked onto land and evolved into bugs!!!!

Isn't that what evolution teaches?? That fish walked onto the land and evolved into people and camels and dinosaurs and bugs and so on???????

Insect fossils have been dated back to the Silurian period which was before the Devonian period mentioned in the cartoon.

"The Silurian is a geologic period and system that extends from the end of the Ordovician Period, about 443.7 ± 1.5 million years ago (mya), to the beginning of the Devonian Period, about 416.0 ± 2.8 mya (ICS, 2004). As with other geologic periods, the rock beds that define the period's start and end are well identified, but the exact dates are uncertain by several million years. The base of the Silurian is set at a major extinction event when 60% of marine species were wiped out. See Ordovician-Silurian extinction events.
A significant evolutionary milestone during the Silurian was the appearance of jawed and bony fish. Life also began to appear on land in the form of small, moss-like, vascular plants which grew beside lakes, streams, and coastlines. However, terrestrial life would not greatly diversify and affect the landscape until the Devonian."

take a read on the period mentioned in the cartoon before stating "that's not right"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian

oh and it's a satirical comic BTW

The satire I got.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian

The ancestors of all tetrapods began adapting to walking on land, their strong pectoral and pelvic fins gradually evolved into legs.

The earliest tetrapods evolved from the lobe-finned fishes in the Devonian.[1] They are now a dominant part of the terrestrial fauna, representing all known larger land animals. Some groups have even returned to an aquatic existence, including the largest animal known, the blue whale.


As I was saying, didn't life evolve from the sea? Didn't fishes walk onto land and evolved into monkeys, dinosaurs, lions, and people????

Isn't this what evolution teaches???????

Or did prehistoric insects evolve into goats and cats??

[Humes]

Sigh.

That's not what evolution 'teaches'. That's what idiots who don't take the time to read and understand the science intentionally claim evolution 'teaches'.

All life emerged from the sea, but not all life evolved from "fish". Different groups of prehistoric life evolved into different groups of animal life. Prehistoric fish evolved into mammals, amphibians, reptiles etc. Prehistoric arthropods developed into insects and other invertebrates. And this didn't all take place at the same time or in the same era.

This is elementary school stuff. Try harder.

[bluefete]

Sigh.

That's not what evolution 'teaches'. That's what idiots who don't take the time to read and understand the science intentionally claim evolution 'teaches'.

All life emerged from the sea, but not all life evolved from "fish". Different groups of prehistoric life evolved into different groups of animal life. Prehistoric fish evolved into mammals, amphibians, reptiles etc. Prehistoric arthropods developed into insects and other invertebrates. And this didn't all take place at the same time or in the same era.

This is elementary school stuff. Try harder.

So what you are saying is that shrimps, lobster, crabs, manta rays and octupii also walked out of the sea and evolved into scorpions and centipedes and spiders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okaaaaayyyy then!

[bluefete]

then her fellow competitors who didnt get gold didnt pray as hard as she did?

Isn't it amazing that Usain Bolt in both the semis and finals of the 2012 Olympic 100 metres gave visual thanks to God before his races?

Isn't it amazing that he won?

[pioneer]

LOL wut?

wow...

[Ted_v2]

Wow Just wow

[Bizzare]

then her fellow competitors who didnt get gold didnt pray as hard as she did?

Isn't it amazing that Usain Bolt in both the semis and finals of the 2012 Olympic 100 metres gave visual thanks to God before his races?

Isn't it amazing that he won?

You are very delusional. You shame Christianity and go against the bible in many of your actions and words. Do not call yourself a Christian, you are not.

[bluefete]

="Bizzare"

Isn't it amazing that he won?
You are very delusional. You shame Christianity and go against the bible in many of your actions and words. Do not call yourself a Christian, you are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.[1] Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process).[1] As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders including schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression.




I have always been a bit of a heathen myself!


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathen

1hea·then
adj \ˈhē-thən\
Definition of HEATHEN
1
: of or relating to heathens, their religions, or their customs
2
: strange, uncivilized
Examples of HEATHEN

<old missionaries who mistakenly thought that they were going off to China to tame the heathen hordes>

Origin of HEATHEN
Middle English hethen, from Old English hǣthen; akin to Old High German heidan heathen, and probably to Old English hǣth heath
First Known Use: before 12th century

[Bizzare]

bluefete, stop dabbling in conspiracy crap and seek to find the real Jesus if that's what you want.
You seem like the kind to watch a lot of bullsh1t Youtube videos and believe any prophecy a "man of God" shoves down your throat. You remind me of another user who calls himself a Christian but spews tons of BS that even I know is against the teaching of the bible, i think it's twicedead. That's idolatry according to the book you claim to follow. You make up your own belief and twist everything to suit how you want to live your life and what you want the truth to be. Stop spending minutes per day reading delusional stuff on the internet.


It's pretty sad that you would link an athlete's success because of his visual thanks to god. Do you even know what God he is praying to? You know how many hypocrites there are saying vain prayers and living their lives a double standard like you? Stop grasping at straws.

[Bizzare]

As a man who claims to be a "Christian" and supporting that which is against the God of the Holy Bible, that made it even more clear to me that you are a MAD MAN. You are not a "Christian". If I do or say something that is against the teachings of the bible, I acknowledge that I am doing the contrary and I do not fool myself and compromise and believe that I am all in line with the bible like you are.

I do not post tons of false prophecies and conspiracies, none of which lines up with the bible just cuz I want to believe in it for my entertainment. I don't seek to defend the bible by grasping at straws. That's the kind of guy you are.

[bluefete]

bluefete, stop dabbling in conspiracy crap and seek to find the real Jesus if that's what you want.
You seem like the kind to watch a lot of bullsh1t Youtube videos and believe any prophecy a "man of God" shoves down your throat. You remind me of another user who calls himself a Christian but spews tons of BS that even I know is against the teaching of the bible, i think it's twicedead. That's idolatry according to the book you claim to follow. You make up your own belief and twist everything to suit how you want to live your life and what you want the truth to be. Stop spending minutes per day reading delusional stuff on the internet.


It's pretty sad that you would link an athlete's success because of his visual thanks to god. Do you even know what God he is praying to? You know how many hypocrites there are saying vain prayers and living their lives a double standard like you? Stop grasping at straws.

Thank God Jesus came to save hypocrites like me.

[bluefete]

bluefete, stop dabbling in conspiracy crap and seek to find the real Jesus if that's what you want.
You seem like the kind to watch a lot of bullsh1t Youtube videos and believe any prophecy a "man of God" shoves down your throat. You remind me of another user who calls himself a Christian but spews tons of BS that even I know is against the teaching of the bible, i think it's twicedead. That's idolatry according to the book you claim to follow. You make up your own belief and twist everything to suit how you want to live your life and what you want the truth to be. Stop spending minutes per day reading delusional stuff on the internet


It's pretty sad that you would link an athlete's success because of his visual thanks to god. Do you even know what God he is praying to? You know how many hypocrites there are saying vain prayers and living their lives a double standard like you? Stop grasping at straws.

The only delusional stuff I read is from people who deny that God exists. Right here on this thread!

[Bizzare]

According to the bible, not me, you and your false doctrines are even more dangerous than the atheist in this thread towards those seeking salvation. I'm speaking not as a "Holy Christian" cuz I don't pretend to be what I am not, but It's only what the Holy Book says - the one you defend here.

I'm not gonna pretend to be a Holy Christian when I am supporting nudity here on Tuner. If I claim to be a Christian, that's definitely not what I'd be representing. Do you even have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, cuz you can't be serious with some of things you post here. I've been reading your posts from since this thread started and you are misguided. You seem to lack the spiritual discernment that separates the truth from the lies - something that only the Holy Spirit can impart upon a "Christian"

[Bizzare]

ok ok.... i'm being judgmental myself and I shouldn't be either. But I can be that way though. I don't claim to be anything like you do. You say that you represent Christianity and all I'm saying is, what I know to be Christianity, what you say and support at times doesn't represent that at all and seems more like you just finding entertainment in it.

[megadoc1]

yuh see bizzare, it looks like you have no choice but to come show us the real christian way,
now jump right in and don't hold back, you know you've got this!

[Humes]

So what you are saying is that shrimps, lobster, crabs, manta rays and octupii also walked out of the sea and evolved into scorpions and centipedes and spiders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okaaaaayyyy then!

No. That's what you are saying.

Early arthropods, which weren't shrimps, crabs, cockroaches, ants, etc...but early versions of those life forms, developed into different families of animals, including insects and crustaceans. One original group branched off into multiple groups. It really isn't that tough to grasp.

I hope you're just being facetious and that you really aren't too dumb to understand this stuff.

[Humes]

I agree with Bizarre. Churches and temples are full of freaks who just latch on to a twisted interpretation of Christianity/Hinduism/Islam as an excuse for their own personal issues and mental illness. You can see that just a few posts up with the "I'm a hypocrite, but I'm saved!" post.

I think the fact that these fellas can persistently engage in that kinda arrogance, disingenuous behavior, hubris, intolerance and outright dishonesty...and then talk about Jesus Christ...is a great testimony to the folly of belief.

[AdamB]

You remind me of another user who calls himself a Christian but spews tons of BS that even I know is against the teaching of the bible, i think it's twicedead. That's idolatry according to the book you claim to follow. You make up your own belief and twist everything to suit how you want to live your life and what you want the truth to be. [u]

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, [color=#FF0000]that we worship none but Allah (Alone), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides allah . Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #64)

Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah [the Taurat (Torah)], then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it? ( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #75)

So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (good-doers - See V.2:112).
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #13)

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by allah), and (they also took as their lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilah (God - allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." ( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #31)

Do then those who disbelieved think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, allah's Messengers, 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] as Auliya' (lords, gods, protectors) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell as an entertainment for the disbelievers (in the Oneness of allah - Islamic Monotheism) .
( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #102)

Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides allah: we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you hostility and hatred for ever until you believe in allah Alone" - except the saying of Ibrahim (Abraham) to his father: "Verily, I will ask forgiveness (from allah) for you, but I have no power to do anything for you before allah. " Our lord! In You (Alone) we put our trust, and to You (Alone) we turn in repentance, and to You (Alone) is (our) final Return.
( سورة الممتحنة , Al-Mumtahana, Chapter #60, Verse #4)