HAPPENING NOW PARIS TERROR ATTACK- NOW GERMANY

[Redman]

Because lets face it, in a country like Trinidad where a law abiding citizen can't even own a toy gun, we are very safe since not a single criminal owns a real gun right? I mean banning all guns from citizens has sure made Trini safe since none of our criminals have real guns right?

Just imagine if every incident that involved a cutlass or gramaxone , had a gun instead.

That is what restrictive gun laws prevent.

Let's not imagine.

What is the actual incidence of crime committed with a legal fire arm in TNT?

Why not give those who want to own a fire arm responsibly...and want to follow the rules..the ability to own a fire arm???

Currently, can people own fire arms legally or not ? What restrictions exactly you want to relax ?

First things first.
You made an assertion.
Can you provide support...or is it just an un founded(based on no data to support) feeling?

I will give you the answer....there are none or very few instances in TnT where legal guns are used to commit crimes.
So this indicates that those who carry fire arms legally have done so without becoming what you stated above.

What restrictions exactly you want to relax ?

Good Question.

I would support stricter guidelines on the issuance of fire arms.
I would support a well regulated system that is transparent,efficient and ENFORCED.

SO
Personally I would

Post a financial bond
Submit to random drug testing
Prove my capability, re certification and continued practice

In order to be to allowed to carry a fire arm.


All the above is easily implementable with existing infrastructure.

The truth in TnT is that 99% of the people that have an FUL and even an FUEC are responsibly carrying weapons.

But the current system to get an FUL/FUEC has little bearing on whether on SHOULD BE carrying a weapon....and whether one continues to be stable enough to do so.


Currently if yuh know the right people .....your application just needs a name and address and the CoP has discretion to sign it..

So the the restrictive gun laws that you refer to are just the result of a system that is corrupted and kept to by the gate keepers.
For their financial gain.

Not a formal policy
Not a well regulated system.

[BRZ]

So yes the WIFE in the California mass shooting has been confirmed as having Pledged to ISIS and the ISLAMIST Extremists group- go figure!

[Redman]

I.would buy her a first class ticket to Turkey....

ISIS need single women...

[pete]

Umm.. didn't they kill her too?

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

[Redman]

Umm.. didn't they kill her too?

Dat wokking too.

[Slartibartfast]

Did he belong to a group of people with similar ideals that supported him or did he act alone out of his own volition?

Edit: Also, what teachings of agnosticism did he use to justify his actions?

investigations ongoing.

Lol. So as it stands right now that is an irrelevant detail and does not reflect on the general thoughts or behaviours of agnostics is anyway.

See the difference?

A terrorist that happens to be agnostic =/= agnostic terrorist by default

Same goes for all other religious affiliations.

It is very evident that his agnosticism played a significant role in him asking who were Christians and fatally shooting them while wounding non religious persons. To say otherwise would be naïve. It is in the same vain that this week's shooting was obviously terrorism but ppl like Obama wanna call it Workplace Violence. The tag line "investigation ongoing" is a panacea to the obvious truth.

Considering he killed those that were Christian suggests that Christianity played a bigger part in this attack.

In what agnostic teachings does it say that you must shoot Christians? It sounds more like he a reaction to some way Christianity affected him in the past.

Pointing out his victims as Christian seems like a much more relevant detail than pointing out that he was agnostic.

See what I'm getting at? The reason for the killing was not because he was agnostic... it was because the victims were Christian. He is more of an anti-christian terrorist than anything else if you want to call it that.

[Slartibartfast]

Habit - Other details taken from the wikipedia page that you thought were less relevant that his religious affiliation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpqua_Community_College_shooting

- Parents were divorced
- Father not present in life for two years prior to shooting
- Discharged from military for not meeting minimum requirements (linked to suicide attempt)
- He was suicidal
- Graduated from a school for children with learning disabilities and emotional disorders
- Law enforcement sources said he was hate filled and white supremist with long term mental issues.
- Mother said he had Asperger syndrome
- Had several loaded guns in the house at all times and used to shoot on gun ranges for fun
- Was recently placed on academic probation in college for poor academic performance
- Was facing suspension for poor academic performance
- Was a sexually frustrated virgin
- Lived an isolated life

... but yeah, he definitely committed the shooting because he was agnostic

[BRZ]

AUSTRALIA now dealing with five taken into custody for PLanning TERROR Attacks.

geeze!

[Habit7]

Habit - Other details taken from the wikipedia page that you thought were less relevant that his religious affiliation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpqua_Community_College_shooting

- Parents were divorced
- Father not present in life for two years prior to shooting
- Discharged from military for not meeting minimum requirements (linked to suicide attempt)
- He was suicidal
- Graduated from a school for children with learning disabilities and emotional disorders
- Law enforcement sources said he was hate filled and white supremist with long term mental issues.
- Mother said he had Asperger syndrome
- Had several loaded guns in the house at all times and used to shoot on gun ranges for fun
- Was recently placed on academic probation in college for poor academic performance
- Was facing suspension for poor academic performance
- Was a sexually frustrated virgin
- Lived an isolated life

... but yeah, he definitely committed the shooting because he was agnostic

As accurate a source you might perceive Wikipedia to be, the same list can be made for Osama bin Laden. One of 77 children, had daddy issues, loved porn while adhering to strict Islam, etc.

The reason I bought up his agnosticism is that this thread focuses on the religion of the terrorists and the worldview that governs them. They justify the murders as their religious enemies or collateral damage to the religion. Likewise how would Harper-Mercer justify his murders...morally I don't know. As an agnostic he has no absolute morality, to one agnostic the holocaust was horrible, to another it was great, it's all relative. But why would an agnostic target religious adherents is the same question as why would a Muslim target religious adherents. We know for the Muslim they have a holy book that some use to justify killing their religious enemies. Likewise for Harper-Mercer to kill his religious enemies he has to conjure up some justification for doing so consistent with his agnosticism. His agnosticism is relative like that.

That is not to say all agnostics will be terrorists but nothing inherent in agnosticism says they shouldn't.

[Slartibartfast]

Ok I see what's going here. You are talking out of your own bias against agnosticism and not from an educated position. Let me show you what I mean.

As accurate a source you might perceive Wikipedia to be, the same list can be made for Osama bin Laden. One of 77 children, had daddy issues, loved porn while adhering to strict Islam, etc.

First of all, what act of Bin Laden's are you talking about exactly? I can't argue motive if I don't know the act. Secondly, why not use the current attacks that it is being compared to. The current attacks are being blamed on Islam because there is actual evidence that shows Islam as part of the motive and support behind the attacks. If there are any attacks that don't show Islam as part of the motive or support behind it then I agree it should not be regarded as an Islamic attack.

The reason I bought up his agnosticism is that this thread focuses on the religion of the terrorists and the worldview that governs them. They justify the murders as their religious enemies or collateral damage to the religion. Likewise how would Harper-Mercer justify his murders...morally I don't know.

Then why mention it. Even you admit that it is of no special relevance and yet it was the only detail you mention.

As an agnostic he has no absolute morality, to one agnostic the holocaust was horrible, to another it was great, it's all relative.

Oh really? Ignoring the fact that I broke down how morality can be derived independent of imaginary friends, you talk about it as though individual morality among agnostics is a random thing. That would mean about half think the holocaust was great while half would think it was horrible. Do you believe this to be the case? Where are all of the holocaust loving agnostics? Also, question for another time, is absolute morality a good thing?

But why would an agnostic target religious adherents is the same question as why would a Muslim target religious adherents.

No, this is wrong. Muslims target anyone that is not Muslim even if they are not religious because they feel they are right. They feel that Islam has a monopoly on the truth. Much like Christians feel.

Conversely, a non-religious person may target a religious group because they were wronged by that religious group or one similar to it in the past.

Case 1: I am right if you don't follow me I am going to kill you
Case 2: I suffered because of a bunch of sh!t people like you did and people like you deserve to die.

See the difference in motive?

We know for the Muslim they have a holy book that some use to justify killing their religious enemies. Likewise for Harper-Mercer to kill his religious enemies he has to conjure up some justification for doing so consistent with his agnosticism. His agnosticism is relative like that.

That is not to say all agnostics will be terrorists but nothing inherent in agnosticism says they shouldn't.

The word "justify" says it all. It implies a direct effect of the religious belief in the making of the decision to murder others. Agnosticism is just a belief that there may not be a God. Any activity that does not deal with questioning whether or not there is a God is consistent with agnosticism. Hence the reason I said it is an irrelevant detail. Replace "agnosticism" with "love of chocolate" in this last part of your argument and you would see that it makes just as much sense (i.e. none at all).

[Habit7]

Main Stream Media got quiet with the last Agnostic mass shooter in Oregon. Glad to see they are finding back their voices with this possible Islamic shooter.

This was my original post.

If you wanna bury your head in the sand and ignore fact that a man who targeted religious ppl in a mass shooting, didn't have a motive rising from is own religious views, then good for you.

This is almost like saying the San Bernardino shooting was workplace violence and not Islamic terrorism.

[Slartibartfast]

Main Stream Media got quiet with the last Agnostic mass shooter in Oregon. Glad to see they are finding back their voices with this possible Islamic shooter.

This was my original post.

If you wanna bury your head in the sand and ignore fact that a man who targeted religious ppl in a mass shooting, didn't have a motive rising from is own religious views, then good for you.

This is almost like saying the San Bernardino shooting was workplace violence and not Islamic terrorism.

the FBI has determined “they were radicalized before they started courting or dating each other online, and as early
as the end of 2013 were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom.”...

...The couple jointly pledged allegiance to Islamic State on social media shortly before they were killed in a shootout with police, Comey said.

That directly implies a link between their religion and the attack.

There is also this

Farook had contact with people from at least two terrorist organizations overseas. Malik had studied at a Pakistan seminary known for anti-Western, fundamentalist views.

Can you point me to what agnostic extremist group(s) Harper-Mercer was a part of?

[djaggs]

The Egyptians have been accusing the US of supporting terrorism because of Obama's ties to the muslim brotherhood in Egypt, they have mighty strong words for the US....

[shogun]

1: Obama never said there was no threat to American citizens

2: The idea that Obama can simply say "there is no threat" and all the US intel agencies relax their efforts in thwarting attacks, is mind-blowingly stupid. Lmao.

3: The attacks in San Bernardino were lone wolf attacks. Even ISIS barely took responsibility for them. They called the attackers "supporters" of ISIS and not the usual "fighters for ISIS." It's virtually impossible to predict/stop every attack by random murderous nuts, seeking martyrdom.


4: Here djaggs, this is the idiot you're putting stock in.... i'm not surprised.





If you are ED's backup, allyuh better call in the reinforcements fellas. Somehow though, i get the feeling that you hate Obama more than Ahmed Moussa does. Good luck with that.

[mitsutt]

Now some shooting in Orlando

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/orlando-polic ... 05760.html

[mitsutt]

Turkey international airport hit by terrorists death toll climbing first 10 was reported dead

What they know:


Nearly 50 people are dead and more than 60 others injured in coordinated suicide bombings at Istanbul's Ataturk International Airport on Tuesday night, Turkish officials said.
Three suicide bombers carried out the attack, Istanbul's governor told reporters.
One of the bombers opened fire at the international terminal entrance then blew himself up, Turkey's justice minister said. But another official said police fired on the suspected attackers before the explosions.
A senior Turkish official says initial indications suggest Islamic State group is behind airport attack. U.S. officials told NBC News' Richard Engel that it's "very likely" the attack was work of 35 terrorists ISIS sent to Turkey ahead of Ramadan.
The attackers detonated themselves before entering a security checkpoint at the airport's entrance.
Turkey has been rocked by several recent suicide bombings carried out by Kurdish or Islamic State group militants.
The U.S. State Department said it is working to determine whether any Americans were among the victims.

[mitsutt]

Reports say 3 gunmen on the run


MUNICH (Reuters) - Gunmen attacked a busy mall in the German city of Munich on Friday evening, killing at least eight people and sending shoppers running for their lives from what police said was a terrorist attack.

Authorities told the public to get off the streets as the city - Germany's third biggest - went into lockdown with transport halted and highways sealed off.

A police spokesman said three gunmen were on the run after the initial shooting subsided. The city was placed under a state of emergency as police hunted for them.

"We are telling the people of Munich there are shooters on the run who are dangerous," he said. "We are urging people to stay indoors."

Police said later that eight people had been killed and an undetermined number wounded. A ninth body had also been found and they were checking to see it was one of the gunmen.

ISIS supporters celebrate
The Islamic state is expanding in Europe," read one Tweet.