Voting NOTA for General Elections

[Redman]

I like this!!! Never heard of it before though. Might actually get me in a voting station if this is an option or if they count blank ballots. I do not believe that you should exercise the "right to vote" if you don't want either party/ candidate and you should only endorse someone whose politics/ policies you agree with.

Jah curse on Babylon system!!

This might be semantics but the Right to Vote is the right to freely chose from those who offer themselves.
It isnt the right to chose who yuh want.

So the fact that we have crappy choices isnt a reason not to vote.
I think we have an obligation to do what we can to be heard.
That mechanism is the vote.

The EBC has just been doing the minimum every 5 years while paying them full time.

Currently there are no parties willing to grant LGBT rights, reduce taxes, remove duty from camera equipment, admit that Kublalsingh eating normal or legalize the herb.

Thats because there are no real numbers to show the political powers that be how much it matters....

So we can spend an additional 20 seconds in the voting booth 'voting' for all the issues you raise.

Within a week the feedback would be something along the lines of detailed % s of who supports what and the winning party might be informed of what its mandate really is in terms of what WE want them to do.

Why is the biggest decision I make as a citizen limited to a A or B ,take the cokoloks or leave it choice??

[tiger balm]

Your ballot would be viewed as a spoilt ballot. I doubt EBC would count the NOTA ballots for research purposes either. So what will be the final result? You boasting to your friends that you voted NOTA and thinking you made a difference? If there's no worthwhile outcome, this idea is a waste of time.

I also think you're wasting our time. You said you voted against PNM in 2010 cause there were doing crap yet you can't remember what the crap was exactly. In the next 5 years, would you remember why you voted against PP (as you stated you plan to do)? Also, you said you don't pay attention to politics until it's close to election time. So how could you make a proper decision?

Never thought I would see the day where I agree with UML on ANY of his points, but, who are you trying to fool?

[src1983]

Here are some videos showing voting

Take some time and look at it, then at the end you will know why TT won't move forward.

https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?list=PL7679C7ACE93A5638

Enjoy

[Redman]

We wont move forward because too many people dont want to move forward.

everybody knows why we cant move forward.

[Slartibartfast]

This poll should have a NOTA option as well

I was going to include it but the NOTA vote wouldn't count

[Slartibartfast]

Redman I basically share your views on this one.

Tiger Balm I stated that I had limited political experience so that everyone could take what I saying with a pinch of salt. I'm not the most educated in political matters (decided long ago that I rather spend my time amd attention elsewhere for personal reasons) so it's good that better informed individuals can point out where I may not be making sense. Thanks for your reply. Hope you voted in the poll.

[88sins]

Redman, you are definitely an idealist. Nuttn wrong with that eh, just don't be too shocked when all you get is disappointment

Neither Kamla nor Keith nor any politician gives a rat's furry backside about what ppl think about their political groups until about 6-8 months before the next general election. And they don't give a damn about the public's opinion after they are sworn in to office either. So even if the EBC were to be commissioned to gather information on public perception of them by means of a poll of qualitative questions, that data would either sit there collecting dust after the election & never be utilized, or it would be used for them to figure out a little easier how to hoodwink the gullible voter population.
I personally do not vote, & I can honestly say I can understand why others may choose to do the same.

I not standing up in no long line wasting time & energy waiting to take directions from some half-wit temporary EBC official on what to do before I dutty my finger to show I exercised my right to choose who is next in line to rape the treasury & ignore the populations needs & wants & get away with it all scot free.

[Slartibartfast]

Here is my thinking on voting NOTA for those that are curious. I know many do not agree with my point of view and that is perfectly fine... it's kind of the point of freedom of choice

When I was first able to vote about 6 years ago PNM did crap so I voted COP (Just remember Dooks was making the most sense to me at the time)

COP lost and re-elections were called. They joined with UNC so I voted UNCA (Only because I was supporting COP at the time).

COP seems to have gotten completely swallowed into UNC and UNC has done a lot of crap (which I have witnessed first hand as I work in construction where a lot of the crap happens) so I won't be voting for UNC this election.

The problem is that I have seen no significant change in PNM for me to be convinved to vote for the this election.

ILP is out of the question because it is ILP.

So regardless of which party is chosen between UNC or PNM I will be equally unhappy and disappointed. Therefore choosing between those two parties makes no sense to me. Therefore I originally planned to sit out this election for the same reasons quoted by 88sins but then I thought, since I'm already not casting a vote worth anything I might as well throw in a NOTA vote. 99.9999999999999999999999999999% sure that absolutely nothing will come of it but it would be nice to see if it gained enough popularity for someone to take notice and make it official.

Right now it is part of systems in other parts of the world and there is no reason why it cannot be a part of our local system as well. Instead of waiting for it to become part of the official system I thought I would just get things started by posting one for myself and letting others know about it.

Here is where UML chimes in and tells me why I can be arrested and thrown in jail for life for doing this by quoting one of her 5500+ posts.

TLDR: I am voting NOTA to help me rest a little easy on election night. A lot of this would seem like nonsense to a lot of people and I can fully understand why (just like other people's opinions sometimes don't make sense to me). At the end, this is my choice and this is the choice that I choose to make.

[j.o.e]

That's a long post to say you're a UNC / COP loyalists and prefer to vote for no one when your conscience doesn't allow you to vote for the partnership

[Slartibartfast]

Lol, How can I be loyal to them if I don't want to vote for them?
Also, how has PNM changed since the last elections that would guarantee that they will do a better job this time around?

[megadoc1]

http://trinidadexpress.com/20150901/news/terrible-tim
former senate president urges voters to vote for no one

VOTERS are being encouraged to spoil their ballots in the upcoming general election as a form of protest to demand “a fair electoral voting system” in Trinidad and Tobago.
The call is being spearheaded by former Senate president Timothy Hamel-Smith, through a recently established ad hoc group known as the T&T Citizens for Democracy.
The campaign was launched via social media site Facebook and messaging app WhatsApp on Sunday.
With one week to go before the general election, Hamel-Smith’s poli­tical message states: “Patriots, this your last chance to protest. Say ‘No to all’. Your vote counts, even if it says ‘No to all’ because by law the EBC (Elections and Boundaries Commission) must report these (spoilt) votes.

[Dizzy28]

I feel I could be in a spoilt ballot. Neither party has my confidence.

I know the reality is that one of them will either continue or the other would get their turn at the feeding trough none the less!!

[sickbad]

everbody knows NOTA is for choosing a dougla candidate, it's the biologically accurate best ting between a blackie and a Indo Trini here in t&t

either have a mixed race candidate slate or have your indian and african representatives split power equally under a new "no name" party.

[Slartibartfast]

I guess I didn't get the memo because I didn't know I would be voting NOTA for a dougla candidate. All this time I thought I decided to vote NOTA because I am fed up of the tribal politics that just perpetuates racism and pits otherwise sensible citizens against each other based on the colour of their skin on the origin of their lineage.

Although I agree with the notion of voting NOTA, I'm not against "PNM" or "UNC" or even that against the voting system (although I believe there is a lot of place for improvement). I am against the majority of people running for office, especially those two at the top of the major political parties. They have been in the forefront of politics for several years and have not performed satisfactory.

If any party puts forth a candidate and representatives that I think are both honest and capable with good ideas to move our country forward then I would vote for them. People have to get out of this backward mentality of "supporting their own".

BTW, for all you die hard supporters, I acknowledge that both parties have done good deeds during their respective tenures. My argument is that they did not do the best possible job and have a too many shortcoming along the way. My argument is that there must be better candidates available that are smarter, more forward thinking and are able to do more good with what is available while not being as blatantly corrupt as those that currently hold office.

TL:DR - I think it makes perfect sense to vote NOTA when NOTA candidates are fit to run a country.

[Trinbagoviews]

Why The Govt, Media and Academia Hate It When You Don't Vote

Via Trinbagoviews.com

Voting is the holy sacrament of politics and it is greatly frowned upon by the state, media, academia etc if you decide not to participate.

It disturbs politicians and the politically connected that some people do not subscribe to the notion that politicians should be supreme rulers -this weakens the powers at be and undermines and demystifies politicians and their authority.



These are the ideas politicians and their friends fear and work hard at dismissing. Imagine what a scare for the politician if no one showed up election day. Politicians would lose the affirmation of somehow being superior along with the authority to tell us what to do and spend our money!

Indeed, low voter turnout can be interpreted as a sign of disenchantment with the political system and can potentially send a message. In fact academics never mention statistically you are more likely to die on the way to the polls than for your vote to be the pivotal vote in determining the election result.

According to the Downs paradox, named after Anthony Downs of the Public Choice school of economics, the costs of voting, which includes factors such as the time spent learning about each candidate, their positions and the potential implications of their policy recommendations exceeds the expected benefits of the single ballot cast for a rational, self-interested voter. The chances of an individual voter exercising the pivotal ballot in an otherwise tied election are miniscule, leading the rational, self-interested voter to abstain from the process altogether, particularly in a state that heavily leans toward a candidate from one of the two major parties.

Therefore non-voters should not be ostracized for having something better to do election day.

Nota bene, political systems derive power not from the police and army but from "engineered consent" i.e. the willingness of those who are to be ruled and abused to consent to expropriation. In other words a percentage of the population must sanction being ruled by an inevitably corrupt elite class -red, yellow or green.

Even those on the low end of the totem pole who interpret a win for their preferred candidate to mean a greater likelihood of favourable hand-outs are losers in the long run since they have become mere pawns in a vicious vortex that only serves the political class and regrettably perpetuates a destructive dependency syndrome on the lower class.

Non-voters, rather than being ridiculed should be acknowledged for their healthy scepticism and negative feelings about politicians and state institutions that all say the same things, make the same promises but only serve the people to the extent it serves their political ambitions. On coming to this epiphany withdrawing ones consent and abstaining from an electoral gimmick is not an option to be frowned upon.

There remains a simple reason why politicians (red, yellow or green), academics, the media and other politically connected establishments aggressively promote voting as a citizen’s civic duty – it validates the need for their existence and tacitly justifies their power and rulership over the masses even to the country's ultimate detriment.

Especially now in the face of economic slow down the size, scope and role of the T&T government (now at 41 ministries) that promises to take care of everyone from cradle to grave must be dismantled.

[BRZ]

is this option legal in T&T?

It is very important to exercise your right to vote!!

Even if it isn't (defacing government property or something) how will they catch you to prosecute you?

Both parties already deface property by painting their party's UNC and PNM all over our nations roads"

[UML]

I NEVER hear a PNM say they not voting!!!

[5onDfloor]

Have anyone stop to think that Timothy Hamel-Smith NOTA diatribe is another guile way of securing votes for the incumbent?

Every N.O.T.A vote is a vote for the incumbent.

I see this as another attempt to remain in office by the PP. A brilliant strategy i must admit

[Trinbagoviews]

Have anyone stop to think that Timothy Hamel-Smith NOTA diatribe is another guile way of securing votes for the incumbent?

Every N.O.T.A vote is a vote for the incumbent.

I see this as another attempt to remain in office by the PP. A brilliant strategy i must admit

Agreed they are nothing more than opportunistic, self absorbed, attention seekers who think they are ordained national "Leaders" by default.

All I'm saying for the reasons outlined above is that someone who makes a rational decision not to vote should not be ridiculed .........

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Nah! This is entirely wrong. However you feel about spoiling your ballot it is simply wrong for the EBC to (1) use language to mislead the public into thinking a spoilt ballot is not counted by saying it is rejected, without also saying the number of rejected ballots are counted and made public and (2) {even more scarily} telling us what a responsible exercise of our franchise is. I can't say it enough. This is so wrong; it goes to the very fabric of our society. I am asking sensible people (and in particular the sensible people who disagree with ballot spoiling) to take a stand against this. Feel free to say what a terrible idea NOTA is if you think it is terrible but that nonetheless it is a right you will defend.

so which is it?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Every N.O.T.A vote is a vote for the incumbent.

explain?

[Kewell35]

Nah! This is entirely wrong. However you feel about spoiling your ballot it is simply wrong for the EBC to (1) use language to mislead the public into thinking a spoilt ballot is not counted by saying it is rejected, without also saying the number of rejected ballots are counted and made public and (2) {even more scarily} telling us what a responsible exercise of our franchise is. I can't say it enough. This is so wrong; it goes to the very fabric of our society. I am asking sensible people (and in particular the sensible people who disagree with ballot spoiling) to take a stand against this. Feel free to say what a terrible idea NOTA is if you think it is terrible but that nonetheless it is a right you will defend.

so which is it?

Hinds hymc

[j.o.e]

Spoilt ballots aren't published, they are accounted for simply to verify that if x amount of people went to a polling station that x amount of ballots were cast. If party A gets 5000 votes and party B gets 5600 votes that's the only result is published. It's the only result that matters.

[Redman]

Every N.O.T.A vote is a vote for the incumbent.

explain?

The goal is to minimize the # of votes that go to the PNM...
I would speculate the NOTA is geared to the swing vote.

So the NOTA idea is providing an alternative to the swing/undecided/fence sitters that is framed as a genteel form of political protest..that is more likely to pull from the voters swinging across to the PNM than it is to pull from those solidly UNC.

Just another option that statistically should get some support from voters that UNC has already lost

[sMASH]

Spoilt ballots don't work in favour of the incumbent. They are effectively the same as not voting at all.

Spoiling ballots and splitting votes assumes that those voters would have voted for the runner up instead. There is no basis for that assumption to be made.
It may just as possible be that those voters would have voted for the leader any way, and their margin of lead would have been wider.

What that hinds guy need to do is put an option of abstention.

This way we can appropriately capture those persons who are interested but are dissatisfied.

[5onDfloor]

Every N.O.T.A vote is a vote for the incumbent.

explain?

The goal is to minimize the # of votes that go to the PNM...
I would speculate the NOTA is geared to the swing vote.

So the NOTA idea is providing an alternative to the swing/undecided/fence sitters that is framed as a genteel form of political protest..that is more likely to pull from the voters swinging across to the PNM than it is to pull from those solidly UNC.

Just another option that statistically should get some support from voters that UNC has already lost

Redman thanks for taking the time to explain.

To further elaborate, i believe in 2015 we have a lot of disenchanted (fence sitters/swing voters) who are faced with the same dilemma/disgust we had in 2010. It is my interpretation that Hamel-Smith is planting a seed in these voters mind that they can express their disgust by N.O.T.A as oppose to voting out the incumbent.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ but as sMASH said, how is that necessarily a vote for the incumbent?

[bluefete]

I do not agree that it is a vote for the incumbent but it certainly is a vote for whoever wins because the non-voters would have thrown away the opportunity to make a difference.

[Dizzy28]

I do not agree that it is a vote for the incumbent but it certainly is a vote for whoever wins because the non-voters would have thrown away the opportunity to make a difference.

How do you know they wpuldnt have voted for the winner?

[sMASH]

A defacing of thr ballot is the best option right now to show disapproval.
We need an actual place on the ballot to select none of the above.