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AdamB wrote:d spike wrote:There is NOTHING wrong believing in religion. Of course one will think that one's preferred choice is the right one, or the best one... perfectly understandable.
However, a problem occurs when one is convinced that because all others wrong, they should be treated accordingly. How could any religion that claims to be peaceful treat non-believers with violence and preach hate?
And just whom is preaching violence and hate with this biased post? Did they put christian girls on the cross? Were you there to witness the events?
If this was true and it is contentious, then ISLAM AND SHARIAH LAW were not the perpetrators, it was the Turks...Islam does not preach violence and hate. Get your facts straight!
AdamB wrote:What level of ISLAM and Shariah law exists in Turkey today? Doesn't that tell you something?
AdamB wrote:What about the #1 Genocide in modern human history, in Hitler's Germany? Why don't you say that Adolf Hitler was raised by a Catholic father and a devout Catholic mother. No, that wouldn't be preaching hate and violence!!
AdamB wrote:
You should research what ISLAM / SHARIAH LAW prescribes for the treatment of non-muslims in an Islamic society as well as the treatment of prisoners of war before you come here spouting your CODSWALLOP!!!!
Ori Shahak was shot down in his Phantom over Golan Heights. He was beaten unconscious by the soldiers who found him.
Guards threw him into a hole in al-Mazzeh Prison and left him to his own devices, his hands and feet bound, his eyes covered. In the middle of the old metal door there was a slat that the guards opened occasionally, and on the sides of the slat there were cracks through which he could tell if it was day or night. The sounds of his friends and compatriots being tortured reverberated through the old French prison walls.
The torture was brutal. The interrogators asked questions — about everything from Jewish holidays to atomic secrets — that were translated into a strange, literary Hebrew. Whenever he answered incorrectly or evasively, they whipped the soles of his feet. Sometimes he had to provide incorrect answers just to appease them. At the end of his first interrogation, he had to be carried out of the room like a corpse.
He nearly lost his left foot to infection and was plagued by thirst. But the worst suffering of all, he said, was mental — the uncertainty, the isolation and the loneliness. In order to stay sane, he tried to shut his mind down during the days, when he and the other soldiers were interrogated, and to come alive at night, when the Syrians slept.
Uri Ehrenfeld was captured defending a fort against an Egyptian attack.
On the western side of the canal the bus carrying the Israeli POWs pulled away from the photographers and the Red Cross personnel. In an alley, a few hundred yards from the photographers, the Egyptian soldiers stopped the bus, blindfolded and handcuffed the Israelis, and began savagely beating them as the bus lurched back into gear.
They stopped at an army base. Ehrenfeld could see beneath his blindfold that it was a bright and sunny Saturday afternoon. He was led to a table and asked his name and serial number. Before he could answer, he was smashed in the face with something hard and he lost consciousness.
He woke up moments before being tossed through the air. Held by the hands and feet and then landing on a soft surface, it took him a few moments to realize he had been thrown onto a pile of his peers.
Ehrenfeld’s cell in Abassiya Prison was bare. There was no bed or mattress. The rough concrete walls were stained with blood and excrement. There were gnats and flies everywhere. A single light bulb burned 24 hours a day. His hands were bound behind his back. By raising his shoulder and lifting the hem of the sack that covered his face, he was able to discern between night and day.
His interrogations were brutal but incoherent. At times they would call him in every few days; at other times, he would be called back three minutes after an interrogation. The questions were sometimes asked in writing and other times orally. They focused on non-issues, such as water storage in his neighborhood in Jerusalem.
One day, though, his interrogator came into the room and, without saying a word, tossed a red paratrooper’s beret on the table. It was Ehrenfeld’s most prized possession. Before surrendering, he said during a 2007 Erim Balaila testimony of his own, he had taken the paratrooper wings out of his wallet and thrown them in the canal. He had stashed his red beret and taken black armored corps boots from one of the dead soldiers in the fort.
“You don’t recognize this?” the interrogator asked. Ehrenfeld said that he didn’t. When the man said that someone had told him it was his, he saw stars. He was sure he was going to be killed. Behind him someone chambered a bullet — perhaps the most fearsome sound in the human repertoire — and Ehrenfeld prepared for death. The soldier fired the bullet behind his ear and for days afterwards Ehrenfeld trembled in fear.
MG Man wrote:dspike you are spouting rubbish
these people are not muslims. Muslims would not do such things. These are men with evil in their hearts, pretending to be muslims. Everything you quoted there goes against what islam teaches. You should know better. All those people have evil in their hearts and pervert islam
d spike wrote:AdamB wrote:
You should research [size=150]what ISLAM / SHARIAH LAW prescribes for the treatment of non-muslims in an Islamic society as well as the treatment of prisoners of war before you come here spouting your CODSWALLOP!!!![/size]
Yes, quite.
Tell that to Lt. Col. (Res) Ori Shahak, and Uri Ehrenfeld, among many others.Ori Shahak was shot down in his Phantom over Golan Heights. He was beaten unconscious by the soldiers who found him.
Guards threw him into a hole in al-Mazzeh Prison and left him to his own devices, his hands and feet bound, his eyes covered. In the middle of the old metal door there was a slat that the guards opened occasionally, and on the sides of the slat there were cracks through which he could tell if it was day or night. The sounds of his friends and compatriots being tortured reverberated through the old French prison walls.
The torture was brutal. The interrogators asked questions — about everything from Jewish holidays to atomic secrets — that were translated into a strange, literary Hebrew. Whenever he answered incorrectly or evasively, they whipped the soles of his feet. Sometimes he had to provide incorrect answers just to appease them. At the end of his first interrogation, he had to be carried out of the room like a corpse.
He nearly lost his left foot to infection and was plagued by thirst. But the worst suffering of all, he said, was mental — the uncertainty, the isolation and the loneliness. In order to stay sane, he tried to shut his mind down during the days, when he and the other soldiers were interrogated, and to come alive at night, when the Syrians slept.
Uri Ehrenfeld was captured defending a fort against an Egyptian attack.
On the western side of the canal the bus carrying the Israeli POWs pulled away from the photographers and the Red Cross personnel. In an alley, a few hundred yards from the photographers, the Egyptian soldiers stopped the bus, blindfolded and handcuffed the Israelis, and began savagely beating them as the bus lurched back into gear.
They stopped at an army base. Ehrenfeld could see beneath his blindfold that it was a bright and sunny Saturday afternoon. He was led to a table and asked his name and serial number. Before he could answer, he was smashed in the face with something hard and he lost consciousness.
He woke up moments before being tossed through the air. Held by the hands and feet and then landing on a soft surface, it took him a few moments to realize he had been thrown onto a pile of his peers.
Ehrenfeld’s cell in Abassiya Prison was bare. There was no bed or mattress. The rough concrete walls were stained with blood and excrement. There were gnats and flies everywhere. A single light bulb burned 24 hours a day. His hands were bound behind his back. By raising his shoulder and lifting the hem of the sack that covered his face, he was able to discern between night and day.
His interrogations were brutal but incoherent. At times they would call him in every few days; at other times, he would be called back three minutes after an interrogation. The questions were sometimes asked in writing and other times orally. They focused on non-issues, such as water storage in his neighborhood in Jerusalem.
One day, though, his interrogator came into the room and, without saying a word, tossed a red paratrooper’s beret on the table. It was Ehrenfeld’s most prized possession. Before surrendering, he said during a 2007 Erim Balaila testimony of his own, he had taken the paratrooper wings out of his wallet and thrown them in the canal. He had stashed his red beret and taken black armored corps boots from one of the dead soldiers in the fort.
“You don’t recognize this?” the interrogator asked. Ehrenfeld said that he didn’t. When the man said that someone had told him it was his, he saw stars. He was sure he was going to be killed. Behind him someone chambered a bullet — perhaps the most fearsome sound in the human repertoire — and Ehrenfeld prepared for death. The soldier fired the bullet behind his ear and for days afterwards Ehrenfeld trembled in fear.
This, and many like it, can be easily found in the biographies of people who enjoyed the "treatment of prisoners of war in an Islamic society".
As far as "the treatment of non-muslims in an Islamic society", should I mention any of the many accounts of the horrors and massacres of Jews in "Islamic society"?
Quite right, very good.... that's where you should have stopped , but no, not you... you HAD to go and slap on some bullcrap onto a perfectly good statement...AdamB wrote:
Islam enjoins good and forbids wrong.
The whole point of showing the examples is that they WEREN'T isolated, but quite common... Go easy on the BS. The internet and news are FULL of atrocities being committed by "ignorant and misguided followers" of Islam... Let me guess, Mossad and the Great Satan (US of A) are paying international media to focus excessively on (or generate?) these "isolated" actions, in order to make Muslims look "bad". But these are all misguided people, right? I agree. So how come "guided" Muslim clerics don't decry all those horrible actions???? Do you? Does your leader decry these foul actions publicly?AdamB wrote:Let us not judge the religion by isolated actions of its followers.
AdamB wrote:Every generation that succeeds the best generation (of our prophet) the people become more and more ignorant / misguided.
What else has to accompany good actions, according to your mindset? The TRUTH? And what is that? That there is only One True God? Come on, let me hear YOU - not a cloth-bundle full of quotation and gobbledegook, mind you... your OWN words!AdamB wrote: May GOD guide them and us to the TRUTH and to good action. Good action alone does not qualify one for entry into paradise just like bad (evil) action does not qualify one for eternal damnation in hellfire, if accompanied with other good actions.
What absolute nonsense is this?AdamB wrote:The Jews are taking their "revenge" and others may as well...
d spike wrote:Quite right, very good.... that's where you should have stopped , but no, not you... you HAD to go and slap on some bullcrap onto a perfectly good statement...AdamB wrote:
Islam enjoins good and forbids wrong.The whole point of showing the examples is that they WEREN'T isolated, but quite common...AdamB wrote:Let us not judge the religion by isolated actions of its followers.
In the context of over 1400 yrs of Islamic history, they are isolated but I agree that it's becoming quite common.
So how come "guided" Muslim clerics don't decry all those horrible actions???? Do you? Does your leader decry these foul actions publicly?
Would the media allow such? What about the "controversial" referendum in Egypt, a country of muslims mind you, where 63% voted FOR, but it's reported as controversial. How dare them incorporate Islamic Shariah (Law) in an overwhelming muslim country where the majority want it!!!AdamB wrote:Every generation that succeeds the best generation (of our prophet) the people become more and more ignorant / misguided.
REALLY????? And where does this place you, young man?
Right here in TnT with the ability to distinguish Truth from falsehood, ALMIGHTY GOD from idols and invented deities from among the Creation.What else has to accompany good actions, according to your mindset? The TRUTH? And what is that? That there is only One True God? Come on, let me hear YOU - not a cloth-bundle full of quotation and gobbledegook, mind you... your OWN words!AdamB wrote: May GOD guide them and us to the TRUTH and to good action. Good action alone does not qualify one for entry into paradise just like bad (evil) action does not qualify one for eternal damnation in hellfire, if accompanied with other good actions.
Those are MY words, professor, if you don't understand then look again. To those who know better, YOUR words may sound like a "cloth-bundle" full of crap.What absolute nonsense is this?AdamB wrote:The Jews are taking their "revenge" and others may as well...
Do I have to post the exhausting list of UN Resolutions against them? It's also, OK for them to have NUCLEAR WEAPONS, but no one else. Just wait for the day when they bite the hands that have fed them, it's coming...
Let me be very clear with you. All my life, I have held in high esteem the religion of Islam and my understanding of its teachings. Just like Christianity (and many other religions) there are many followers who don't understand (but think they do) or use their religion to justify their own pursuits.
If my only experience of Christianity were what I read in this forum, I would harbour little respect for Christians...
However, AdamB, if my only experience of Islam were what I read in your posts, I would harbour little respect for Muslims as well. You NEED to adjust your set, twiddle your antennae a bit... spreading your message on the point of a sword doesn't attract ANYONE.
Islam is not in need of anyone's respect, it's not something that we use to show off. Islam has a message, believe or disbelieve in it. Belief comprises acceptance and submission.
Take a look at Spain. The Moors invaded and lived for quite a while there. How come Spain isn't a Muslim nation? Spreading religion on the point of a sword DOESN'T WORK.
Ideally, people are not forced to live in an Islamic society, non-muslims pay the Jizya, a tax, they then live peacefully once they abide by the law of the state in which they reside. In history, many people preferred to live under muslim rule with that system rather than on their own...research it.
Jizya is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power (but with specific exemptions). From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes." In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.
It's easy for many to criticize such a system, but they don't live in the condition that many did in the "middle ages" which were similar to what we see in many muslim countries now and China, North Korea.
Look at their prized Flamenco dancing and their architecture... all heavily influenced by (if not downright borrowed or copied from) Moorish culture... How come? Did they learn how to dance or to build on the point of a sword? Of course not.
They saw something that they admired and copied it.
That is how you teach religion as well. People will want to know what drives you to be the great person you are, and they copy it. It takes time, but that goes for anything worth doing.
OK so it didn't work in the case of Spain, but what about Indonesia, what swords were lifted there?
Christians call it "witnessing", living your life in such a way that people are attracted to what you really believe. (I'm not referring to the errant folk who think "witnessing" is pounding down your door and demanding that you hear what they have to say - that is rather like what you are doing now.)
That's what the majority of muslims do, including myself, this thread is an exception because folks here escalate matters, so it's difficult to "witness" because what you are speaking of may be impossible to see online.
How many Christians "witnessed" for the season with alcohol and pork, parties, illegal sexual intercourse,etc? How many will "witness" as Xmas done and Carnival in the air?
Many are leaving their christian churches because they see the "bullcrap" that is being preached and practised.
AdamB wrote:d spike wrote:What else has to accompany good actions, according to your mindset? The TRUTH? And what is that? That there is only One True God? Come on, let me hear YOU - not a cloth-bundle full of quotation and gobbledegook, mind you... your OWN words!
Those are MY words, professor, if you don't understand then look again. To those who know better, YOUR words may sound like a "cloth-bundle" full of crap.
AdamB wrote:The Jews are taking their "revenge" and others may as well...
...Do I have to post the exhausting list of UN Resolutions against them? It's also, OK for them to have NUCLEAR WEAPONS, but no one else. Just wait for the day when they bite the hands that have fed them, it's coming...
AdamB wrote:Islam is not in need of anyone's respect, it's not something that we use to show off. Islam has a message, believe or disbelieve in it. Belief comprises acceptance and submission.
d spike wrote:One of the biggest problems regarding "spreading the message" is often overlooked or ignored due to ego. This is the matter of the messenger. Too many natter on and on about "it's the message", or "I am but a vessel"... Who you are will affect the message you preach. Again, too many consider that "spreading the word" is so much more important than preparing themselves, that they ignore their own frailties, in the mistaken belief that their preaching to others will negate their faults.
An unclean vessel will taint its contents. Leading others to the gates of Paradise is no guarantee that you will be allowed to enter.
This is why it is far more important to spread the message by "witnessing". It is unfortunate that folks think witnessing means talking and preaching - far from it. Witnessing means to live your life in such a way, that what you believe is seen in what you do. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians." Remember: 'What you are doing is speaking so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.'
Don't be a tainted vessel.
AdamB wrote: this thread is an exception because folks here escalate matters, so it's difficult to "witness" because what you are speaking of may be impossible to see online.
AdamB wrote:How many Christians "witnessed" for the season with alcohol and pork, parties, illegal sexual intercourse,etc? How many will "witness" as Xmas done and Carnival in the air?
AdamB wrote:...non-muslims pay the Jizya, a tax, they then live peacefully once they abide by the law of the state in which they reside. In history, many people preferred to live under muslim rule with that system rather than on their own...research it.
Jizya is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power (but with specific exemptions). From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes." In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.
It's easy for many to criticize such a system, but they don't live in the condition that many did in the "middle ages" which were similar to what we see in many muslim countries now and China, North Korea.
Traditionally Jews living in Muslim lands, known as dhimmis, were allowed to practice their religion and to administer their internal affairs but subject to certain conditions. They had to pay the jizya (a per capita tax imposed on free adult non-Muslim males) to Muslims. Dhimmis had an inferior status under Islamic rule. They had several social and legal disabilities such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims. Contrary to popular belief, the Quran did not allow Muslims to force Jews to wear distinctive clothing. Obadyah the Proselyte reported in 1100 AD, that the Caliph had created this rule himself:
The Caliph of Baghdad, al-Muqtadi [1075-1094], had given power to his vizier, Abu Shuja, [who] imposed that each male Jew should wear a yellow badge on his headgear. This was one distinctive sign on the head and the other was on the neck- a piece of lead of the weight of a silver dinar hanging round the neck of every Jew and inscribed with the word dhimmi to signify that the Jew had to pay poll-tax. Jews also had to wear girdles round their waists. Abu Shuja further imposed two signs on Jewish women. They had to wear a black and a red shoe, and each woman had to have a small brass bell on her neck or shoe, which would tinkle and thus announce the separation of Jewish from Gentile [Muslim] women. He assigned cruel Muslim men to spy upon Jewish women, in order to oppress them with all kinds of curses, humiliation, and spite. The Gentile population used to mock all the Jews, and the mob and their children used to beat up the Jews in all the streets of Baghdad. When a Jew died, who had not paid up the poll-tax [jizya] to the full and was in debt for a small or large amount, the Gentiles did not permit burial until the poll-tax was paid. If the deceased left nothing of value, the Gentiles demanded that other Jews should, with their own money, meet the debt owed by the deceased in poll-tax; otherwise they [threatened] they would burn the body. (Scheiber, A. "The Origins of Obadyah, the Norman Proselyte" Journal of Jewish Studies (Oxford), Vol. 5, 1954, p. 37.)
In Moorish Spain, ibn Hazm and Abu Ishaq focused their anti-Jewish writings on the latter allegation. This was also the chief motivation behind the 1066 Granada massacre, when "[m]ore than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day", and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed.There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465.
The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when a French monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city including children who were tortured. The consuls of England, France and Germany as well as Ottoman authorities, Christians, Muslims and Jews all played a great role in this affair. Following the Damascus affair, Pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa. Pogroms occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874). There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[12] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.
In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.
In 1941, following Rashid Ali's pro-Axis coup, riots known as the Farhud broke out in Baghdad in which approximately 180 Jews were killed and about 240 were wounded, 586 Jewish-owned businesses were looted and 99 Jewish houses were destroyed.
During the Holocaust, the Middle East was in turmoil. Britain prohibited Jewish immigration to the British Mandate of Palestine. In Cairo the Jewish Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang) assassinated Lord Moyne in 1944 fighting as part of its campaign against British closure of Palestine to Jewish immigration, complicating British-Arab-Jewish relations. While the Allies and the Axis were fighting for the oil-rich region, the Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husayni staged a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq and organized the Farhud pogrom which marked the turning point for about 150,000 Iraqi Jews who, following this event and the hostilities generated by the war with Israel in 1948, were targeted for violence, persecution, boycotts, confiscations, and near complete expulsion in 1951. The coup failed and the mufti fled to Berlin, where he actively supported Hitler. In Egypt, with a Jewish population of about 75,000, young Anwar Sadat was imprisoned for conspiring with the Nazis and promised them that "no British soldier would leave Egypt alive" (see Military history of Egypt during World War II) leaving the Jews of that region defenseless. In the French Vichy territories of Algeria and Syria plans had been drawn up for the liquidation of their Jewish populations were the Axis powers to triumph.
The tensions of the Arab-Israeli conflict were also a factor in the rise of animosity to Jews all over the Middle East, as hundreds of thousands of Jews fled as refugees, the main waves being soon after the 1948 and 1956 wars. In reaction to the Suez Crisis of 1956, the Egyptian government expelled almost 25,000 Egyptian Jews and confiscated their property, and sent approximately 1,000 more Jews to prisons and detention camps. The population of Jewish communities of Muslim Middle East and North Africa was reduced from about 900,000 in 1948 to less than 8,000 today.
On March 2, 1974, the bodies of four Syrian Jewish girls were discovered by border police in a cave in the Zabdani Mountains northwest of Damascus. Fara Zeibak 24, her sisters Lulu Zeibak 23, Mazal Zeibak 22 and their cousin Eva Saad 18, had contracted with a band of smugglers to flee Syrian to Lebanon and eventually to Israel. The girl’s bodies were found raped, murdered and mutilated. The police also found the remains of two Jewish boys, Natan Shaya 18 and Kassem Abadi 20, victims of an earlier massacre.Syrian authorities deposited the bodies of all six in sacks before the homes of their parents in the Jewish ghetto in Damascus.
Contrary to the myth that Jews lived in harmony with the Arabs before the Zionist state, innumerable authoritative works document decisively the subjugation, ppression, and spasmodic anti-Jewish eruptions of violence that darkened the existence of the Jews in Muslim Arab countries.
In truth, before the seventh-century advent of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam, Jews and Arabs did have harmonious relations, and words of praise regarding the noble virtues of the Jews may be found in ancient Arab literature.
Before the Arab conquest, in fact, some rulers of Arabia "had indeed embraced Judaism," as Muslim historians attest.
The Koran itself has been witness to the Jewish nature of the "Israelite communities of Arabia": Koranic references appear about the rabbis and the Torah which they read, and the prestige and reverence with which the earlier community viewed them.
The Koran contains so many legends and theological ideas found in Talmudic literature that we are able to draw a picture of the spiritual life of the Jews with whom Mohammad must have come into contact.
It was the Prophet Muhammad himself who attempted to negate the positive titage of the Jew that had been prevalent earlier. According to historian Bernard Lewis, the Prophet Muhammad's original plan had been to induce the Jews to adopt Islam;4 when Muhammad began his rule at Medina in A.D. 622 he counted few supporters, so he adopted several Jewish practices-including daily prayer facing toward Jerusalem and the fast of Yom Kippur-in the hope of wooing the Jews. But the Jewish community rejected the Prophet Muhammad's religion, preferring to adhere to its own beliefs, whereupon Muhammad subsequently substituted Mecca for Jerusalem, and dropped many of the Jewish practices.
Three years later, Arab hostility against the Jews commenced, when the Meccan army exterminated the Jewish tribe of Quraiza. As a result of the Prophet Muhammad's resentment, the Holy Koran itself contains many of his hostile denunciations of Jews and bitter attacks upon the Jewish tradition, which undoubtedly have colored the beliefs of religious Muslims down to the present.
Omar, the caliph who succeeded Muhammad, delineated in his Charter of Omar the twelve laws under which a dhimmi, or non-Muslim, was allowed to exist as a "nonbeliever" among "believers." The Charter codified the conditions of life for Jews under Islam -- a life which was forfeited if the dhimmi broke this law. Among the restrictions of the Charter: Jews were forbidden to touch the Koran; forced to wear a distinctive (sometimes dark blue or black) habit with sash; compelled to wear a yellow piece of cloth as a badge (blue for Christians); not allowed to perform their religious practices in public; not allowed to own a horse, because horses were deemed noble; not permitted to drink wine in public; and required to bury their dead without letting their grief be heard by the Muslims.
As a grateful payment for being allowed so to live and be "protected," a dhimmi paid a special head tax and a special property tax, the edict for which came directly from the Koran: "Fight against those [Jews and Christians] who believe not in Allah ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."
In addition, Jews faced the danger of incurring the wrath of a Muslim, in which case the Muslim could charge, however falsely, that the Jew had cursed Islam, an accusation against which the Jew could not defend himself Islamic religious law decreed that, although murder of one Muslim by another Muslim was punishable by death, a Muslim who murdered a non-Muslim was given not the death penalty, but only the obligation to pay "blood money" to the family of the slain infidel. Even this punishment was unlikely, however, because the law held the testimony of a Jew or a Christian invalid against a Muslim, and the penalty could only be exacted under improbable conditions-when two Muslims were willing to testify against a brother Muslim for the sake of an infidel.
The demeanment of Jews as represented by the Charter has carried down through the centuries, its implementation inflicted with varying degrees of cruelty or inflexibility, depending upon the character of the particular Muslim ruler. When that rule was tyrannical, life was abject slavery, as in Yemen, where one of the Jews' tasks was to clean the city latrines and another was to clear the streets of animal carcasses-without pay, often on their Sabbath.
The restrictions under Muslim law always included the extra head tax regardless of the ruler's relative tolerance. This tax was enforced in some form until 1909 in Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey; until 1925 in Iran; and was still enforceable in Yemen until the present generation. The clothing as well as the tax and the physical humiliation also varied according to whim. Thus, in Morocco, Jews had to wear black slippers, while in Yemen, Jewish women were forced to wear one white and one black shoe.*
[* The edict set by the Sultan of Morocco in 1884 varies somewhat, as did most interpretations of the dhimma law. His restrictions also included insistence that Jews work on their sacred day of rest; carry heavy burdens on their backs; work without pay; clean foul places and latrines; part with merchandise at half price; lend beasts of burden without payment; accept false coinage instead of negotiable currency; take fresh skins in return for tanned hides; hold their beds and furniture at the disposal of government guests, etc.]
Jews were relegated to Arab-style Jewish ghettos -- hara, mellah, or simply Jewish Quarter were the names given the areas where Jews resided -- recorded by travelers over the centuries, as well as by Jewish chroniclers. A visitor to four-teenth-century Egypt, for example, commented in passing on the separate Jew-quarter, and five hundred years later another visitor in the nineteenth century verified the continuation of the separated Jewish existence: "There are in this country about five thousand Jews (in Arabic, called 'Yahood'; singular, 'Yahoodee'), most of whom reside in the metropolis, in a miserable, close and dirty quarter, intersected by lanes, many of which are so narrow as hardly to admit two persons passing each other in them."
In 1920, those Jewish families in Cairo whose financial success had allowed them out of the ghetto, under relatively tolerant rule, had been replaced by "poor Jewish immigrants." Thus, although the character of the population may have changed, the squalor and crowding remained. As one writer, a Jew, observed:
Our people are crowded and clustered into houses about to collapse, in dark cellars, narrow alleys and crooked lanes choked with mud and stinking refuse, earning their meagre living in dark shops and suffocating workshops, toiling back to back, sunscorched and sleepless. Their hard struggle for existence both inside and outside the home is rewarded by a few beans and black bread.
Under no circumstances were Jews considered truly equal. Among the Jews in Arab lands were many individual personal successes and regionalized intermittent prosperity, but the tradition of persecution was characteristic throughout most of Jewish history under Arab rule. If the dhimmi burdens were light in one particular region, the Jew had the residue of fear left from the previous history of pogroms and humiliations in his area. These harsh and ancient dhimma restrictions persisted even up to the present time to some degree, in some Arab communities, and their spirit -- if not their letter -- continued generally throughout the Arab world.
Throughout the centuries, the Jews were the first to suffer persecution in times of economic turmoil or political upheaval, and the cumulative effect of the sporadic mass murders left their mark on the Jews even in periods of relative quiescence. In Syria, the infamous blood libel of 1840 brought about the death, torture, and pillage of countless Jews falsely accused of murdering a priest and his servant to collect the blood for Passover matzoth! Before the Jews were finally vindicated of this slander, word of the charges had spread far from Damascus, causing terror in numerous Jewish communities.
The departure of European colonists in the twentieth century brought into being a highly nationalistic group of Arab states, which increasingly perceived their Jews as a new political threat.* The previous Arab Muslim ambivalence -- an ironic possessive attitude toward "their" Jews, coupled with the omnipresent implementing of the harsh dhimma law -- was gradually replaced by a completely demoniacal and negative stereotype of the Jew. Traditional Koranic slurs against the Jews were implemented to incite hostility toward the Jewish national movement. The Nazi anti-Semitism in the 1930s and 1940s flourished in this already receptive climate.
As early as 1940 the Muffi of Jerusalem requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right "to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy."*
Hitler's crimes against the Jews have frequently been justified in Arab writings and pronouncements. In the 1950s, Minister Anwar Sadat published an open letter to Hitler, hoping he was still alive and sympathizing with his cause. Important Arab writers and political figures have said Hitler was "wronged and slandered, for he did no more to the Jews than Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, the Romans, the Byzantines, Titus, Mohammed and the European peoples who slaughtered the Jews before him." Or that Hitler wanted to "save ... the world from this malignant evil..."
Arab defense of the Nazis' extermination of the Jews has persisted: prominent Egyptian writer Anis Mansour wrote in 1973 that "People all over the world have come to realize that Hitler was right, since Jews . . . are bloodsuckers . . . interested in destroying the whole world which has . . . expelled them and despised them for centuries ... and burnt them in Hitler's crematoria ... one million ... six millions. Would that he had finished it!"
It was from such a climate that the Jews had escaped, seeking refuge in Israel.
megadoc1 wrote:thats it dey ! the world definitely gonna end keep your eyes on mg for more signs
AdamB wrote:Dspike,
1. What's the sources of your information posted? Please quote your sources before you beat yourself on the chest.
All of a sudden Wikipedia might be "biased"??? My God, that never occurred to meAdamB wrote:2. How do you verify? How do you know it's not biased? (especially the second quote).
.... And "especially the second quote" - clearly written by some "biased" Israeli - even though it says much the same thing as the Wikipedia post...What does that have to do with what I wrote? Was the topic not "the treatment of non-Muslims in Islamic society"? Since when was Nazi Germany or Russia considered "Islamic society"?AdamB wrote:3. Are muslims also to blame for Persecution of the Jews in nazi Germany and Russia?
AdamB wrote:You conveniently forgot to post this from the first quote:
Nazism
Main article: The Holocaust
Persecution of Jews reached its most destructive form in the policies of Nazi Germany...
Why don't you look back and see WHAT I was writing about?marlener wrote:Buh..wat is dis,MG starts reading Koran and immediately loses the zeal to eat pork!!!hmmmmm.This might be the start of thing to come,let follow closely.lol.
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