what's wrong with european cars?

[crazybalhead]

Q really...not with that mileage. A car costing this much, should at least have enough QA/QC to NOT have these issues so early in it's use. If Conrad case was unique, we could say he got a lemon. But we all know it is not unique. Hell, I even remember reading about a test on a BRAND NEW M3 in a mag a few years ago, and how it consumed oil like nobody's business. WTF?? Consuming oil? brand new???

[Conrad]

Only thing euro cars good for is looks. Resale value is bread crumbs.......a B14 have better resale value

True,
however when you drive an Audi or a VW you immediately feel the better and far superior Build quality, smooth operating engine and quiet cabin,
Step over to the nissan and you hear the small 1.6 engine bawling, you feel every bump in the road, and you know youre driving a thin tin can.

so true!

Tell that to my mother who had an A4

That was the WORST car that ever passed through our family.

ONLY NEW OEM parts bought and installed by ex-dealer technicians. Car serviced on time at all times and was hardly driven for the earlier 2 out of 4 years she had it. Parts were brought in from abroad or purchased from which ever garage did the install. Three highly recommended garages later and she sold it.

Turbo
Coil-packs (God that A4 loved to blow coil-packs)
Transmission (normal thing with them)
Peeling center console
Broken glove compartment
Broken center console arm rest
Non-functioning cigarette lighter port
Blown tail light error on dash (never got this cleared)

Car was bought as a dealer maintained local used at ~40k km and sold after 4 years for approx 40% of original purchase price at 80k km.

The old C33 Laurel is still going strong requiring very little maintenance and is 23 years.

You're making it sound like no japanese car in history has ever had problems

Thats well over $100k of problems faddah

This thread seems to make the same attempt for Euros.

Cars are cars, gonna have probs, JDMs are more reliable than Euros whether people like it or not. Some are going to still have a decent experience with a product which may be making someone elses life a hell.

In Trinidad JDM>Euro for the everyday grocery getter.

If you wanna pips and use a car to maintain your self esteem buy a Euro or better yet a VIP JDM like a Crown

[cinco]

exactly CBH
it is called perceived quality if im paying 3 times as much i expect it to be 3 times better
the interior paint always rubs off on audis i havent seen a 3 yr old audi without the markings around the headlight switch worn off

[eliteauto]

exactly CBH
it is called perceived quality if im paying 3 times as much i expect it to be 3 times better
the interior paint always rubs off on audis i havent seen a 3 yr old audi without the markings around the headlight switch worn off

so true, I know a pair of 3 Series BMW's by the dealer now for repair because of that chupid thinking

[rfari]

Really what more you need than a b14

[moti]

thats why i will always stick with JDM cars.

is only two type people buy euro in this country.

1. Rich People (people who have plenty money)

2. Stupid people who want others to think they have money


ever see a gunta driving a skoda or old audi A4 on crims?
wonder why they bought it used and not new? its cause they swank tun up yo!

[DJ Q]

thats why i will always stick with JDM cars.

is only two type people buy euro in this country.

1. Rich People (people who have plenty money)

2. Stupid people who want others to think they have money


ever see a gunta driving a skoda or old audi A4 on crims?
wonder why they bought it used and not new? its cause they swank tun up yo!

Well yes... because no gunta owns a Teana, Accord, Camry and stuff like that

I'm not saying euros are perfect, because they're known for problems in our climate.
But from my experience, once you do preventative maintenance as said earlier in the thread... you should be good.
Problem with my car is when it's down... it's down for a while. No one to fix it

I like JDMs, but prefer euros.

Sylphy's are known for the dashboard issue (now resolved with the latest model) just as much as Rovers are known for head gasket failure.
However, I'm yet to sit in a JDM that gives what RIPEDBREDFRUIT described in terms of build quality etc. Even when I drove the last civic; it looks really nice, pretty quiet, but I found the ride much rougher than my car.

[gooner]

Here is my 2 cents

I own a new model fully loaded Kia sportage and a merc c class sport (amg kit etc). Sorry I'm not comparing apples to apples.

The Kia is a fantastic car, in my opinion it looks good, has good features eg cruise control (can't use in trini), auto lights, great iPod interface. The car after nearly 2 years has been reliable. The only issue so far was a fading steering wheel which the dealer replaced with no stress. Service cost is very affordable and service so far has been excellent.

The Mercedes w204 is another car in my opinion looks good. It has good features similar to the Kia, it doesn't have a good iPod interface only an aux line which u wouldn't expect. My last service cost me 4,800 which was a full service. Full service doesn't mean changing brakes, it's just all fluids, filters, lubricants and a detail check. The dealer said I needed to change my brakes but I knew they were talking rubbish.

Comparison
As mentioned above both cars look good and have similar features.
The main difference for me is the drive, suspension, cabin feel and overall experience. It's hard to explain but when I drive the Kia, it now feels like I'm driving a vehicle that is not stable or solid, the road noise is intrusive the engine sound and experience makes me feel as if I'm driving a motor bike.

Then there is the whole topic of status, if I'm honest that was one of the main reasons I bought the car but now I appreciate this new quality and drive experience which I never knew about before.

Both cars so far are reliable, get you from a to b, the majority of cars now are equipt with similar gadgets. It really comes down to looks and personal preference but resale value wasn't a factor when purchasing.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

exactly CBH
it is called perceived quality if im paying 3 times as much i expect it to be 3 times better
the interior paint always rubs off on audis i havent seen a 3 yr old audi without the markings around the headlight switch worn off

Why don't we compare cars in the same price bracket? Euro doesn't always have to mean more expensive. How about Octavia vs I dunno a Mazda 3 or Jetta vs fully loaded corolla or lancer. Passat vs Camry etc.
Cuz many cars give trouble no matter what the price. Of course an A4 with problems will look worse than a mazda 3 with problems simply cuz the mazda 3 cost less. I think some people ignore some of the intangibles when looking at price too.

lol@moti analysis.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Here is my 2 cents

I own a new model fully loaded Kia sportage and a merc c class sport (amg kit etc). Sorry I'm not comparing apples to apples.

The Kia is a fantastic car, in my opinion it looks good, has good features eg cruise control (can't use in trini), auto lights, great iPod interface. The car after nearly 2 years has been reliable. The only issue so far was a fading steering wheel which the dealer replaced with no stress. Service cost is very affordable and service so far has been excellent.

The Mercedes w204 is another car in my opinion looks good. It has good features similar to the Kia, it doesn't have a good iPod interface only an aux line which u wouldn't expect. My last service cost me 4,800 which was a full service. Full service doesn't mean changing brakes, it's just all fluids, filters, lubricants and a detail check. The dealer said I needed to change my brakes but I knew they were talking rubbish.

Comparison
As mentioned above both cars look good and have similar features.
The main difference for me is the drive, suspension, cabin feel and overall experience. It's hard to explain but when I drive the Kia, it now feels like I'm driving a vehicle that is not stable or solid, the road noise is intrusive the engine sound and experience makes me feel as if I'm driving a motor bike.

Then there is the whole topic of status, if I'm honest that was one of the main reasons I bought the car but now I appreciate this new quality and drive experience which I never knew about before.

Both cars so far are reliable, get you from a to b, the majority of cars now are equipt with similar gadgets. It really comes down to looks and personal preference but resale value wasn't a factor when purchasing.

This is what I mean by intangibles. Something like this can be the difference in decision making when deciding to purchase a vehicle despite other potential issues.

[cinco]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

[j.o.e]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

Lol u have a way of sayin things..... "b14's of Europe" but also remember the Euro trims we get are also very low spec.

[cinco]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

Lol u have a way of sayin things..... "b14's of Europe" but also remember the Euro trims we get are also very low spec.

that is my point
at the end of the day they both have their pros and cons
but worldwide people shy away from euros for electrical issues mostly even the people who buy the "high end" euros they sell within the warranty period

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

Yeah I know you always have a story to tell and we all do have stories of JDM vehicles too tooing down themselves also. I personally know of a P12 primera that has needed its engine replaced twice. Had overly harsh ride soon after purchase with a load of sensor problems. Does this mean all P12 are overpriced rubbish? No. This is anecdotal.

[cinco]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

Yeah I know you always have a story to tell and we all do have stories of JDM vehicles too tooing down themselves also. I personally know of a P12 primera that has needed its engine replaced twice. Had overly harsh ride soon after purchase with a load of sensor problems. Does this mean all P12 are overpriced rubbish? No. This is anecdotal.

u talk about comparing model to model
a p12 is comparable to a 5 series using the nissan line up at the time


funny thing is people had these conversations about kia/hyundai 5 years ago
people have always had this conversation about euros and it hasnt gotten any better splain that one?

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

Yeah I know you always have a story to tell and we all do have stories of JDM vehicles too tooing down themselves also. I personally know of a P12 primera that has needed its engine replaced twice. Had overly harsh ride soon after purchase with a load of sensor problems. Does this mean all P12 are overpriced rubbish? No. This is anecdotal.

u talk about comparing model to model
a p12 is comparable to a 5 series using the nissan line up at the time


funny thing is people had these conversations about kia/hyundai 5 years ago
people have always had this conversation about euros and it hasnt gotten any better splain that one?

What does my story about a p12 have anything to do with a 5 series?? I just giving you an example of a jdm sheiting down itself like you giving stories of euros doing the same. I haven't compared it to anything european. (And no I don't know what line up you using but a primera was never supposed to compete with a 5 series)

I also don't see what's funny about your latter statement. Claiming kia/hyundai are any more reliable is just that. A claim. You'll find lots of complaints on this very forum about them the same way you will with euros. Like I said everyone has a story about cars tootsing down d place whether it be jdm, euro, korean etc.

[cinco]

wat im saying with my latter statement is lots of the complaints about kia/hyundai have ceased as opposed to the complaints about euros worldwide

[gooner]

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Overall Vehicle Dependability Improves Substantially, Reflecting High Quality of 2009 Models

Strong initial quality of 2009 model-year vehicles--which were produced during one of the toughest years for the automotive industry--has translated into historically high levels of vehicle dependability in 2012, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2012 U.S. Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.
The study measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old (2009 model-year) vehicles. Overall dependability is determined by the level of problems experienced per 100 vehicles, with a lower score reflecting higher quality.

[DJ Q]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value

I know of a BT-50 that was returned because of brake issues
I know of (many) a Hilux returned because of engine mount issues
I know of a Navara with electrical issues

Does that mean all japanese vans are crap?
Then again... they're perceived to be good work vehicles

[cinco]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value

I know of a BT-50 that was returned because of brake issues
I know of (many) a Hilux returned because of engine mount issues
I know of a Navara with electrical issues

Does that mean all japanese vans are crap?
Then again... they're perceived to be good work vehicles

good work vehicles? dem new electronic too too?

[moti]

toyota 3 out of 5 - Lexus/Toyota /Sicon

nice stats there yo!

[Conrad]

well i can tell you of a C class that was returned because of electrical issues...
so like i keep saying its perceived value
btw people in trinidad seem to forget the A4 3 series and C class are base models the b14 of europe

And that's what several people are comparing to in this very thread, the regular daily driven grocery getter.

[Conrad]

Only thing euro cars good for is looks. Resale value is bread crumbs.......a B14 have better resale value

True,
however when you drive an Audi or a VW you immediately feel the better and far superior Build quality, smooth operating engine and quiet cabin,
Step over to the nissan and you hear the small 1.6 engine bawling, you feel every bump in the road, and you know youre driving a thin tin can.

so true!

Tell that to my mother who had an A4

That was the WORST car that ever passed through our family.

ONLY NEW OEM parts bought and installed by ex-dealer technicians. Car serviced on time at all times and was hardly driven for the earlier 2 out of 4 years she had it. Parts were brought in from abroad or purchased from which ever garage did the install. Three highly recommended garages later and she sold it.

Turbo
Coil-packs (God that A4 loved to blow coil-packs)
Transmission (normal thing with them)
Peeling center console
Broken glove compartment
Broken center console arm rest
Non-functioning cigarette lighter port
Blown tail light error on dash (never got this cleared)

Car was bought as a dealer maintained local used at ~40k km and sold after 4 years for approx 40% of original purchase price at 80k km.

The old C33 Laurel is still going strong requiring very little maintenance and is 23 years.

You're making it sound like no japanese car in history has ever had problems

Oh yeah, power window stopped working on TWO doors, a back door and the driver's side. Replaced driver's side and the problem occured again (I think it fell off the track)

Pin hole leak in the "over-flow" bottle that led to endless radiator problems.

Damaged front lower bushings (replaced ALL for ~$10k).


You want anymore?

[DJ Q]

Sure, Conrad.

Keep going.

[ase_tt]

Aside from euro being stronger, better looking and better suspension.

It will kick a japs ass stock!

for eg.
http://youtu.be/I8IJGJH2Wa0

[cinco]

Aside from euro being stronger, better looking and better suspension.

It will kick a japs ass stock!

for eg.
http://youtu.be/I8IJGJH2Wa0

u just posted two USDM cars

[Upcfordcruiser]

James May said it best... "There are fewer things more expensive in life than owning a 9 year old European car"

That being said, yes they're built like tanks. Yes, the parts are higher quality. Yes, you're more likely to survive a crash in one. These are points nobody should dispute.

But... you have to have an income to match the car. It's called the Gillette syndrome. Everyone can afford a new Gillette razor kit, it's the damn blade refills that cost a bloody fortune. An Audi, Mercedes, or Beamer with some years and miles on it will have an attractive price on the showroom floor, but that price is made up for in the back, at the parts counter.

Okay, I can't afford dealer parts. Let me head on down to Joe's Parts store and you'll find out why these cars are so damn expensive to work on. There's just no 3rd party parts available with the exception of belts and hoses.

So people then do the #1 thing you should never do with a euro car. They neglect the repairs. Run Merc's or BMW's ELC red antifreeze? Nope, get the cheap green 50/50 premix because "it's all the same" (it's not). Run Mobile 1? Nah, can't afford the syn. juice, the conventional 10w-30 that's on sale will work just fine (it won't). And the worst of all... "..premium cost too much, it'll run just fine on 87 octane..". So then you have a vehicle that overheats, blows oil coolers, runs ragged and gets terrible gas mileage, but it's the car's fault the owners didn't follow mfr recommended service. Those damn euro cars!

Crazy part is, once you remove the air intake ducting and all the plastic engine covers, they're no harder to work on than a typical Honda Accord. If you can't afford to have the dealer service your ride, then put on your big boy pants, get a tool set, get the parts, and buy a service guide.

[ase_tt]

oh sheit and i thought ford was euro and nissan was japanese...

My bad!

[crazybalhead]

While ford does have a lot of Euro heritage, it is an American Brand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... or_Company

[cinco]

and that sentra was only sold in the USDM