The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

LOL, yeah Adam, I always laugh when I see a Christian wearing a star of David. There are Christians I know who send money to Israel for "the chosen people" to "fight the holy war"... which basically says that they want Israel to kill and maim Islamic settlers/ squatters.

Funny enough, they think of Jews like Brahmins... god's chosen people, while a Jew would have nothing to do with their doctrine. If you bring up paralells to the caste system, they will bitterly deny that is the case. Essentially, any person can be "saved", but the Jews will get the VIP treatment in heaven.

Despite the tonnes of $$$ pumped into Israel each year, they need more $$$ to "defend" themselves from little boys pelting stones at their tanks, to pay for chemical weapons and to move Jews from all over Europe to settle back "home" in houses built over the established border.

I think possibly Christians who donate to this cause are ignorant of the facts and atrocities being committed. But then again....

[AdamB]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

your argument????????

My argument...read the post above with the quoted verses from the Qur'aan concerning changing the scriptures.

[megadoc1]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

your argument????????

My argument...read the post above with the quoted verses from the Qur'aan concerning changing the scriptures.

oh ok... I now understand your line of reasoning ...carry on

[AdamB]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

your argument????????

My argument...read the post above with the quoted verses from the Qur'aan concerning changing the scriptures.

oh ok... I now understand your line of reasoning ...carry on

Megadoc1,
I think it's obvious from debates among christians (at least on this thread) that you don't really have a clue as to the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES that were revealed to the respective prophets in the bible. Don't talk about the source of the gospels of the New Testament (who wrote them) and the many others that were not CHOSEN.

Most try to interpret SCRIPTURES for themselves BASED ON THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION. That practise has led to misguidance and division among christians along with different core beliefs pertaining to GOD, who is HE really, and what are the laws from the bible to follow. To prove my point I would just have to list the vast number of sects or churches under the CHRISTIAN umbrella.

It's so bad that some seek to defend associating partners with GOD ALMIGHTY because they see "WE" and "US" being used in the translated texts. How utterly ignorant of the English language!! I feel sorry for them but people need to THINK and PONDER and also be educated properly. That's a difficult thing in itself because of pride and worse yet the LEADERS themselves may not know better.

Dspike explained the Trinity using an example of a reflection from a mirror. My humble question was :WHERE YUH GET THAT FROM? I haven't received an answer yet. You spoke of 14hrs of classes to explain. Was that the explanation you were exposed to?

[Daran]

AdamB,

Say what you want, we have Nicky Minaj on our side.

[megadoc1]

Also, he was a prophet SENT TO THE JEWS ONLY!

"I was sent but unto the lost sheep of Israel."

"Why should you take the scraps from the table and give it to the dogs?"

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

your argument????????

My argument...read the post above with the quoted verses from the Qur'aan concerning changing the scriptures.

oh ok... I now understand your line of reasoning ...carry on

Megadoc1,
I think it's obvious from debates among christians (at least on this thread) that you don't really have a clue as to the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES that were revealed to the respective prophets in the bible. Don't talk about the source of the gospels of the New Testament (who wrote them) and the many others that were not CHOSEN.

Most try to interpret SCRIPTURES for themselves BASED ON THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION. That practise has led to misguidance and division among christians along with different core beliefs pertaining to GOD, who is HE really, and what are the laws from the bible to follow. To prove my point I would just have to list the vast number of sects or churches under the CHRISTIAN umbrella.

It's so bad that some seek to defend associating partners with GOD ALMIGHTY because they see "WE" and "US" being used in the translated texts. How utterly ignorant of the English language!! I feel sorry for them but people need to THINK and PONDER and also be educated properly. That's a difficult thing in itself because of pride and worse yet the LEADERS themselves may not know better.

Dspike explained the Trinity using an example of a reflection from a mirror. My humble question was :WHERE YUH GET THAT FROM? I haven't received an answer yet. You spoke of 14hrs of classes to explain. Was that the explanation you were exposed to?

not me, adam b if you read my posts you would not write what you wrote.....forget that! cause even if you read my posts you still would post this and I really have no time for that!... as I say ...carry on

by the way I posted many times before that the original language is still available for you to check out your self, plus if you read anything here you would learn that there are about two to three persons who posted in this thread that can read and understand the language .(d spike is one of them) I have begun little work with them but you can get help with software online, because of this I know that your whole argument is garbage concerning the scriptures, and you would too from the minute you make the effort to look at them yourself...thank you

let me repeat : there are copies of the original language that is available for you to investigate yourself
get it ! and check it out and see how much you have been misled ...when you do that we can talk...ok? if yuh not doing your homework leave me alone

[bluefete]

So what you are saying is that shrimps, lobster, crabs, manta rays and octupii also walked out of the sea and evolved into scorpions and centipedes and spiders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okaaaaayyyy then!

No. That's what you are saying.

Early arthropods, which weren't shrimps, crabs, cockroaches, ants, etc...but early versions of those life forms,developed into different families of animals, including insects and crustaceans. One original group branched off into multiple groups. It really isn't that tough to grasp.

I hope you're just being facetious and that you really aren't too dumb to understand this stuff.

Aren't you saying what I am saying????
Grasping at straws are we?????

The same way I believe in an invisible being you cannot see is the same way you believe that life, as we know it on land, walked out of the sea and lost (in many cases) its sea-breathing apparatus and evolved over time into land based creatures.

The point is that our beliefs mirror faith and logic/science. Both can co-exist. However, the concept that the first life-form on earth originated from a place scientists do not know will forever leave the critics of creationism guessing.

[bluefete]

Daran - NOT Nice at all!!!!!!!!

[AdamB]

Doh worry, Daran showing his true colours!

[chasemeifyoucan]

Daran, be careful man, you might lower yourself to AdamB and Thermaltake's level. It's tempting to think you have to be like them to get your message across.

And I think AdamB might have actually learned to be a slightly less judgmental fundamentalist since he started posting here!!
He even wished MG Man happy birthday!

[MG Man]

God wants me to be an atheist: Simple Logic
An essay by MG Man
God, as defined by (his) believers, is omnipotent and all knowing. (He) knows everything past, present and future. He knows the outcome of every choice. He knows the inner workings of my mind, and since he knows all outcomes, knows every choice I will make, when faced with multiple alternatives.
If you offer me a ripe apple and a Diana Power Mint, he already knows which one I will choose, even if my choice will vary according to day, time, mood and my overall opinion that Nikki Crosby is not funny.
Having said that, there would have been a specific sequence of events that has led me to my current belief system, or lack thereof, depending on how you spin it. At every critical fork in the road and junction, I would have faced choices. However, since god is all knowing and omnipotent, he already knows which choice I will make at each turning point. Interestingly, that in itself calls into question the whole idea of free will. If god already knows my choice and outcome, is my will really free?
Having said that, it is clear that god has always known, even before the creation of Man, that I would be who I am today. He knew beforehand how I would respond to each subtle whisper in my ear, each divine hint placed before me. If a God exists, he knew all along that I would be a atheist. This means he willingly and deliberately created me this way, since it is he who would have sculpted my own unique consciousness to lead me up to this point.
So...the question remains............based on everything said so far, did god make me an atheist? Does he want me to be an atheist? If a god exists, then the only sensible answer is 'yes'. This in itself has disturbing implications for rapists, murderers, albino elephants, dust within the asteroid belt, imperfections on Hubble's first reflector, Traci Lords' early film career and it's implications for those of us still owning VHS tapes of her early work and the potential for jail time etc......

[Rory Phoulorie]

. . . .Traci Lords' early film career and it's implications for those of us still owning VHS tapes of her early work and the potential for jail time etc......

This all I actually saw, read and understood. If I send you some blank DVDs, could you burn those videos for me?

[MG Man]

[fear of jail] I never had dem DVDs boi [/fear of jail]

[Bizzare]

What God sees to come, according to the bible, he CANNOT change. He sees the choices that every individual will make, but that CAN'T stop him from creating that individual. God dwells in eternity. There is no difference in thought and reality. Whatever he thinks is or will be. From Genesis to Revelation, it is made clear that God cannot change and cannot go back on his word.

The future is already set with God and there is no changing. He sees that MG Man will reject salvation, but it must be fulfilled that MG Man hears the word of God so that there is just judgement on Judgement day. Because of not being able to change or go back on his word is the reason why he made an ALTERNATIVE path to redemption which was Jesus.

If God could, he could have gone back on his word and removed the curse that he laid upon mankind for disobedience in the Garden of Eden. But he is God and his word is eternal and doesn't change. He couldn't reverse that curse. However, he provided and alternative. An alternative because he couldn't change the punishment that he promised upon man resulting from Adam and Eve's disobedience. That was the sacrificing of animal blood up until Jesus came and was the ultimate sacrifice. As you can see, sacrificing of innocent blood fulfilled the punishment. Again, just an alternative because of not being able to go back on his word. All this according to the bible.

[MG Man]

Biz, it still means god wants me to be an atheist
It is wrong of him to judge me on my final choice, if he himself created me in a manner that will make me reject Jesus in favour of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (r'amen)
Your response makes no sense
Your book says god made all of us different........that being the case, it is impossible for every human to accept the same outcome and arrive at the same conclusion....think about it
Your god set us up to fail at his twisted game and face eternal damnation

[Bizzare]

(according to the bible) The bible is a book that you cannot read and understand with human logic. The bible also clearly outlines this. What you just said there makes perfect sense, but the bible said the only way to please God is through faith..... not through your LIMITED human logic which may seem right in this timely realm of LIMITED knowledge. The bible is the only book that preaches to have faith and believe, then you shall see, rather than first seeing to believe. Have you ever taken that approach towards the bible?

The bible also speaks of a point in a man's like where salvation is no longer for him. It's almost like eternal damnation here on earth. You are probably in that phase. A lot of Christians don't speak much on those thing, cuz they are afraid of the truth. They are afraid to accept that a family member can be living in a point of no return. There were probably times in your life when you felt convicted and you continuously rejected the feeling and went on to make a mockery of the kingdom. The bible refers to that as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin. God did not create you in a manner to reject Jesus. He gave every an a will and you chose that path until your heart became hardened. At this point is when the Holy Spirit will flee from you. You no longer feel convicted. As I said, it's like eternal damnation.

Part of the bible says what a man believes in is what his soul will seek to satisfy. Sorry for not quoting the specific passages because of time. But yea, you chose to believe that God doesn't exist, so you find every logic that will satisfy that feeling.

[Dizzy28]

(according to the bible) The bible is a book that you cannot read and understand with human logic. The bible also clearly outlines this. What you just said there makes perfect sense, but the bible said the only way to please God is through faith..... not through your LIMITED human logic which may seem right in this timely realm of LIMITED knowledge. The bible is the only book that preaches to have faith and believe, then you shall see, rather than first seeing to believe. Have you ever taken that approach towards the bible?

The bible also speaks of a point in a man's like where salvation is no longer for him. It's almost like eternal damnation here on earth. You are probably in that phase. A lot of Christians don't speak much on those thing, cuz they are afraid of the truth. They are afraid to accept that a family member can be living in a point of no return. There were probably times in your life when you felt convicted and you continuously rejected the feeling and went on to make a mockery of the kingdom. The bible refers to that as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin. God did not create you in a manner to reject Jesus. He gave every an a will and you chose that path until your heart became hardened. At this point is when the Holy Spirit will flee from you. You no longer feel convicted. As I said, it's like eternal damnation.

Part of the bible says what a man believes in is what his soul will seek to satisfy. Sorry for not quoting the specific passages because of time. But yea, you chose to believe that God doesn't exist, so you find every logic that will satisfy that feeling.

God created 65% of the world to almost instantly reject him by virtue of not being Christian? That's not intelligent design and doesn't speak well of the creator.

[MG Man]

biz, you just threw christianity back into the dark ages with that response

[Rory Phoulorie]

. . . .That's not intelligent design and doesn't speak well of the creator.

I am almost sure that somewhere within the 340+ pages of this thread, there is a Star Trek 1 movie quote in here.

[Chimera]

(according to the bible) The bible is a book that you cannot read and understand with human logic. The bible also clearly outlines this. What you just said there makes perfect sense, but the bible said the only way to please God is through faith..... not through your LIMITED human logic which may seem right in this timely realm of LIMITED knowledge. The bible is the only book that preaches to have faith and believe, then you shall see, rather than first seeing to believe. Have you ever taken that approach towards the bible?

The bible also speaks of a point in a man's like where salvation is no longer for him. It's almost like eternal damnation here on earth. You are probably in that phase. A lot of Christians don't speak much on those thing, cuz they are afraid of the truth. They are afraid to accept that a family member can be living in a point of no return. There were probably times in your life when you felt convicted and you continuously rejected the feeling and went on to make a mockery of the kingdom. The bible refers to that as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin. God did not create you in a manner to reject Jesus. He gave every an a will and you chose that path until your heart became hardened. At this point is when the Holy Spirit will flee from you. You no longer feel convicted. As I said, it's like eternal damnation.

Part of the bible says what a man believes in is what his soul will seek to satisfy. Sorry for not quoting the specific passages because of time. But yea, you chose to believe that God doesn't exist, so you find every logic that will satisfy that feeling.

the simple thing i can't seem to wrap my mind around is


how can you say that humans cannot understand the bible..which was in fact...written by humans

the bible says this and that abc and xyz

if there is a god, he didn't write the bible. some man or a group of men wrote it a while back.

in 1000 years, people may look at comic books and say "long ago there lived a creature named spiderman who saved the world"

[MG Man]

(according to the bible) The bible is a book that you cannot read and understand with human logic. The bible also clearly outlines this. Where??? I started at the front with Genesis and I did not see anything like that

What you just said there makes perfect sense, but the bible said the only way to please God is through faith..... not through your LIMITED human logic which may seem right in this timely realm of LIMITED knowledge. Yes, that is all good, but god created me with a mind that only responds to logic and not faith, so again, your god set me up to fail The bible is the only book that preaches to have faith and believe, then you shall see, rather than first seeing to believe. Have you ever taken that approach towards the bible? I have read the bible TWICE, both times with an open mind......it reads like a largely grotesque nightmare of ritual, blood, violence, interspersed with good vibes of a wandering hippie........every time I get to Leviticus I want to fling the book out the window..........

The bible also speaks of a point in a man's like where salvation is no longer for him. It's almost like eternal damnation here on earth. You are probably in that phase. A lot of Christians don't speak much on those thing, cuz they are afraid of the truth. They are afraid to accept that a family member can be living in a point of no return. There were probably times in your life when you felt convicted and you continuously rejected the feeling and went on to make a mockery of the kingdom. Lol no buddy The bible refers to that as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin.

God did not create you in a manner to reject Jesus. He gave every an a will and you chose that path until your heart became hardened. At this point is when the Holy Spirit will flee from you. You no longer feel convicted. As I said, it's like eternal damnation. Again, your god knew BEFOREHAND which path I would take, even before he created me........my path was written before me...his prescience mandates it....I have no free will to choose otherwise...........again, you cannot make billions of unique minds and expect them all to respond the samw way to specific situations and all arrive at the same conclusions

Part of the bible says what a man believes in is what his soul will seek to satisfy. Sorry for not quoting the specific passages because of time. But yea, you chose to believe that God doesn't exist, so you find every logic that will satisfy that feeling.

[Bizzare]

Now guys, throughout this thread you'll see I took both approaches towards the bible. There what I say isn't biased. I still seek truth just as you guys and this is only what the bible says. That being said....


Humans did not write the bible through their own intellect. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit and at the time of writing, the writers were completely confused as to what they were writing. It's there documented in the bible. John for example (the author of revelation) was one of these confused writers. God created man a perfect being. Because of sin, the devil gained access to tempt mankind - that was one of the punishments. As I said, we have a free will. God could not stop the Devil because he'd be going back on his word. Instead he make an alternative escape from hell - Jesus.
We can either choose to accept Jesus or not. You can never live a righteous life on your own using logic. You need the help of the Holy Spirit. So some try doing it on their own, fail, and say that Christianity is not for them.


The bible also states that God makes use of men whose hearts have become hardened to accomplish his will although they may never seen heaven. Such as Joseph's evil brothers Genesis 50:20 - you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good
Take a look at Judas. When Jesus was choosing his disciples, he did so with knowledge imparted upon him through the Holy Spirit. This was the only way the prophecies could have been fulfilled, by selecting the right individuals. It was known that Judas will never see heaven, but what he meant for evil was needed to fulfill prophecy - the crucifixion of Jesus.

Before Judas even betrayed Jesus, Jesus mentioned this amongst his disciples about the man who was about to betray him. Only Judas and Jesus himself knew who it referred to at the time it was said, but the other disciples were puzzled - would be better if he (speaking about the man who was about to betray him - Judas) had not been born.
Well it happened that Judas hanged himself afer he had seen what he had done. An act that sends an individual to hell. The bible speaks about how Judas had sold out for money even before he became to know Jesus but he was still used for the will of God.

Some men on earth here are already condemned to hell. One way you can know is because they have no conscience. The Holy Spirit speaks through our conscience. God is no respector of person. An individual can reject his word and be condemned at any age.

You guys who believe in science should come to the realization that science is the natural manifestation of the spiritual. Every natural thing is evidence of the supernatural. The supernatural is more real that the natural. What does Science refer to these conscienceless being as - psychopaths. They themselves prove that there is no cure for such. Didn't the bible explain condemnation as a place of no return. Science explains it as a brain deformity - as I said, this is just a natural manifestation of the spiritual aspect of it.

Rad the biblical portion of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin

[MG Man]

judas was set up to fail
that was rather unsportsmanlike for jesus.........he knowingly selected a person who under specific circumstances, would have acted a certain way.........that my friend is manipulation
Yet yor example simply reinforces the idea that your god willingly and knowingly made me an atheist...and now according to his rules, I will be condemned to hell.........your god's one twisted fcuk bro

[Bizzare]

judas was set up to fail
that was rather unsportsmanlike for jesus.........he knowingly selected a person who under specific circumstances, would have acted a certain way.........that my friend is manipulation
Yet yor example simply reinforces the idea that your god willingly and knowingly made me an atheist...and now according to his rules, I will be condemned to hell.........your god's one twisted fcuk bro

Yes, some are condemned and they will be used to fulfill God's will. If you think about it, that was very clever of God for the salvation of his kingdom. How else would the prophecies have been fulfilled. Now I cannot judge you to say that you are already condemned here on earth (according to the bible), but the bible warns Christians about taking time to preach salvation to guys like you. This thread is the based on some "Holy" guys trying to preach salvation to those who hearts are probably already hardened and are condemned to Hell. Look at how far it has reached and how much energy it has wasted. Now this thread right here stands as proof to me that the bible had reason to warn of such. And proof is what I look for everyday. So in y books 1 point for Christianity, 0 for atheism.

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

[Chimera]

Now guys, throughout this thread you'll see I took both approaches towards the bible. There what I say isn't biased. I still seek truth just as you guys and this is only what the bible says. That being said....


Humans did not write the bible through their own intellect. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit and at the time of writing, the writers were completely confused as to what they were writing. It's there documented in the bible.

duane has posted this more than once

[MG Man]

[quote="Bizzare"]
Yes, some are condemned and they will be used to fulfill God's will. If you think about it, that was very clever of God for the salvation of his kingdom./quote]


dude, did you read what you just wrote?
God created some disposable heroes to execute his will? that's some messed up sheit right there

[Bizzare]

Yes, some are condemned and they will be used to fulfill God's will. If you think about it, that was very clever of God for the salvation of his kingdom.

dude, did you read what you just wrote?
God created some disposable heroes to execute his will? that's some messed up sheit right there

Welcome to reality. Christianity is not the walk in the park, everybody can be saved, god uses only Christians, chalala that mainstream Christianity preaches. A lot of people are saved and then lost because of a lack of knowledge. The bible also speaks about individuals who were once saved and tasted all the fruits of the kingdom (meaning the power of God was proven to them such as miracles etc. They actually believed then saw) and have then turned their back on God. The bible said it is IMPOSSIBLE for such a person to return to the kingdom. Why do you see Christians praying for "men of God" who have turned away from the faith? Cuz they are reluctant to accepting the truth of the bible.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[MG Man]

still comes back to my original point: your god set up billions of people to fail and be damned, simply by making them all unique and denying them the liberty of free will

[Bizzare]

He gave them all free will. Everything a man does is HIS CHOICE. Every man has the power to exercise his free will. Do you think there was anything stopping Judas from betraying Jesus. Do you ?!!? Answer me this, couldn't Judas have not betrayed Jesus and be a true servant towards him? How can you say God set him up. He chose a path of dishonesty and God chose to use that dishonesty for his will. Had he not been chosen, Judas would have been doing evil elsewhere. That's all.

MG Man, you know that right now, at this very moment, the only thing stopping you from believing in Jesus is yourself. Despite all your doubts and contradictions, you can "pretend" that he really exists and seek him like the bible requires, all in "pretense". With an open mind, no doubts at all, acting like you fully believe the word is true, with a state of mind like you're expecting to experience.

Guess what? That right there is faith, the only amount of faith required to experience the Holy Spirit. But you would do that and still have your doubts. You will never do it whole heatedly. You will only do it to say that you have done so and experienced nothing. Same mentality you read the bible with. To read it just to say you have read it and nothing happened. And however your conscience speaks to you, you will simply drive that feeling away as just emotions to continue along in your path. That there is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and after a period of time, your heart is simply hardened and you are condemned here on earth.

Don't know if this is your current position though


AGAIN, I SPEAK ACCORDING TO WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS... NOT AS A BELIEVER OR NOT!!

[MG Man]

u miss my point...........prescience on the part of god precludes free will