The Religion Discussion

[stickman]

i have a little advice for you guys.. try to educate your self.. learn somthing.. or to your question.. if a man wants to marry a girl of the age of nine i see nothing wrong in that once her parents agree.. also he must wait for her to be mature to consummate the marriage..

The prophet married Aisha when she was six years old.

[stickman]

A man should not consummate marriage with his young bride until she is physically able to bear intercourse. This varies from one time, place and environment to another.

What are the criteria to determine if she is physically able?
And who determines this?

[thermaltake]

i have a little advice for you guys.. try to educate your self.. learn somthing.. or to your question.. if a man wants to marry a girl of the age of nine i see nothing wrong in that once her parents agree.. also he must wait for her to be mature to consummate the marriage..

take look at the videos and learn ah lil sumtin..

do you guys like having your daughters, wives, mothers dressing half naked for the world to see?
do you guys like crime?
you guys like to see ppl get killed everyday?
you guys like to see young girls getting rape everyday?
like to see people car get thief and people house get rob?
like when alyuh wife horn yuh?
like to see gay ppl all ova the place..

Islam has the answer for all problems in society.. But just the people wont make use of it.. As i said b4 people wage war only against the truth..that is They wage war against Jesus, Moses and the last Muhammad s.a.w...

[Humes]

AdamB, people condemn men who have sex with nine-year-olds today because they're seen as predators who are taking sexual advantage of children who can't give reasonable and mature consent to the activity. Not because it's illegal.

These days, a lot of girls are hitting puberty by age nine. Would you be okay with marrying and having sex with one of them? If it were legal, would you marry one at six, then rub your penis between her thighs for your pleasure until she reaches puberty, as Mohammed did?

Would you be cool with doing that?

Do you think that should be legal today?

How about you, thermaltake?

Doh quote no website (and fail to attribute it). Share your own thoughts and feelings with us.

Straight answers. If you're capable.

[thermaltake]

A man should not consummate marriage with his young bride until she is physically able to bear intercourse. This varies from one time, place and environment to another.

What are the criteria to determine if she is physically able?
And who determines this?

hoss go to google it might help.. i see you need it... Inshallah if you search for knowledge you will be guided...

[AdamB]

It is not prescribed to arrange a marriage for a young girl unless there is a clear and real interest to be served by doing so. The same applies to young boys, but the ruling is emphasized more with regard to girls because a boy has the power of divorce (talaaq).

An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

It should be noted that ash-Shaafa‘i and his companions said: It is recommended for the father or grandfather not to arrange a marriage for a virgin until she reaches the age of puberty and he seeks her consent, lest she find herself trapped in a marriage that she resents. What they said is not contrary to the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah, because what they meant is that he should not give her in marriage before puberty if there is no clear and real interest to be served by that for which there is the fear that it will be missed by delaying marriage, such as the story of ‘Aa’ishah. In that case (i.e., if there is a clear and real interest to be served) it is recommended not to miss the opportunity to marry that husband, because the father is enjoined to take care of his children’s interests, not to neglect them. End quote from Sharh Muslim, 9/206

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) was of the view that in the case of a girl who has reached the age of nine years it is stipulated that she give consent and he said: This is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and this is the correct view.

With regard to the girl who is younger than the age of nine years, he favoured the view that the father does not have the right to arrange a marriage. He narrated from Ibn Shubrumah (may Allah have mercy on him) that he said: It is not permissible to arrange a marriage for a young girl who has not reached the age of puberty, because if we say that that is subject to her consent, her consent does not count (because she is too young to make such decisions), and when she does reach the age of puberty we believe that she should not be forced into a marriage. The Shaykh said: This view is the correct one, that the father should not arrange a marriage for his daughter until she reaches the age of puberty, and when she reaches the age of puberty he should not arrange a marriage unless she gives her consent.
But if we assume that a man regards this suitor as compatible and he is old, and there is the fear that if he passes away and guardianship of the girl passes to her brothers, they may not take the matter of her marriage seriously and they may arrange her marriage according to their whims and desires, not according to what is in her best interests, and he thinks that it is in her best interests to arrange her marriage to someone who is compatible, there is nothing wrong with that, but she will have the choice when she grows up; if she wishes she may say: I do not agree to this and I do not want it.

If the matter is like this, then the safest option is not to arrange her marriage and to entrust her to Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Perhaps now he thinks that this man is compatible but then the man’s situation may change, and perhaps when she reaches the age of marriage Allah will bring her a man who is better than this man, because all things are in the hand of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. End quote from ash-Sharh al-Mumti‘, 12/57-59

The Shaykh also favoured the view that marriage should not be arranged for a boy until he reaches the age of puberty. Ash-Sharh al-Mumti‘, 12/53

With regard to consummation of the marriage with a minor, it does not become permissible by merely drawing up the marriage contract; rather the husband should not consummate the marriage with her until she is able to have intercourse, which is not necessarily at puberty. This is something that varies from one environment and time to another. With regard to that, sharee‘ah pays attention to physical makeup.

Thirdly:

From the words of the Muslim fuqaha’ (jurists) concerning this issue, it is clear that marriage of minors is based on achieving clear and real interests thereby. If marriage of a young girl will serve some very real interest for her, then her guardian may arrange a marriage for her, but if no real interest will be served for her by that, then he does not have the right to arrange a marriage when she is still a minor, until she can choose for herself and give consent.

That is not a transgression against her rights, as may be said with regard to the trustee’s handling of the orphan’s wealth; it is permissible for him to buy and sell on his behalf without obtaining his consent, if that serve a clear and real interest and is more beneficial for him and his wealth.

The view concerning young boys is the same as that concerning young girls; it is essential for the guardian to take into consideration what interests may be achieved for the minor thereby.

This is applicable in all cases in which Islam gives permission to conduct affairs on behalf of another and gives guardianship of another. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

If a person has authority to handle the affairs or wealth of another, either as a guardian or by appointment as a proxy, it is not permissible for him to do whatever he wants; he has to choose that which is in (his ward’s) best interests. End quote from Mukhtasar al-Fataawa al-Masriyyah, 796

Based on that, one should take the appropriate approach to the emotional aspect of this issue, because choosing the right person for the woman in terms of his character and choosing the right time for arranging this marriage is in fact paying attention to the woman’s natural and emotional needs and inclinations. Emotion here does not refer to love relationships and infatuations that may occur between young men and women; these relationships and ideas are one thing and the reality of life is something else. How many marriages have started with these relationships but soon failed, and how many marriages have started without prior acquaintance between the spouses but Allah created love, compassion, tranquillity and harmony between them, and they continued to live happily together.

And Allah knows best.

[Humes]

AdamB, these days, a lot of girls are hitting puberty and looking quite strong and mature by age nine. Would you be okay with marrying and having sex with one of them?

If it were legal, would you marry one at six, then rub your penis between her thighs for your pleasure until she reaches puberty, as Mohammed did?

Would you be cool with doing that?

Do you think that should be legal today?

How about you, thermaltake?

Doh quote no website (and fail to attribute it). Share your own thoughts and feelings with us.

Straight answers. If you're capable.

[Humes]

The silence, the deflection and the obfuscation speakin volumes.

[thermaltake]

it was 1400 years ago, girls got married right after they reached puberty.

All our ancestors did that, so it was a common thing back in those days.

Just to inform you Muslims dont hate you.

Thank you. Allah knows best

[thermaltake]

humes i see you like talking about religion... Lets have a friendly conversation about your religion?.....

[stickman]

it was 1400 years ago, girls got married right after they reached puberty.

All our ancestors did that, so it was a common thing back in those days.

Just to inform you Muslims dont hate you.

Thank you. Allah knows best

You're still avoiding most of the questions.

But I'll admit this is a really disturbing thing to discuss.

[thermaltake]

i have a little advice for you guys.. try to educate your self.. learn somthing.. or to your question.. if a man wants to marry a girl of the age of nine i see nothing wrong in that once her parents agree.. also he must wait for her to be mature to consummate the marriage..

take look at the videos and learn ah lil sumtin..

do you guys like having your daughters, wives, mothers dressing half naked for the world to see?
do you guys like crime?
you guys like to see ppl get killed everyday?
you guys like to see young girls getting rape everyday?
like to see people car get thief and people house get rob?
like when alyuh wife horn yuh?
like to see gay ppl all ova the place..

Islam has the answer for all problems in society.. But just the people wont make use of it.. As i said b4 people wage war only against the truth..that is They wage war against Jesus, Moses and the last Muhammad s.a.w...

you aint answer my questions yet...?

[Humes]

it was 1400 years ago, girls got married right after they reached puberty.

All our ancestors did that, so it was a common thing back in those days.

Just to inform you Muslims dont hate you.

Thank you. Allah knows best

Aisha hadn't even reached puberty. She was married off when she was 6. Even if she reached puberty at age 9, Mohammed rubbed his penis between her thighs before she was 9. Get the facts straight.

And you haven't answered the questions.

- Are you okay with those things?

- Would you do those things today?

- Do you think it those things should be legal today?

[bluefete]

But I am puzzled. If there is a different God for the Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics and all others - How is it that all humans share similar features????????????? To wit - we share the same colour blood, 2 hands, 2 nostrils, 2 feet, you get my drift.

You're the only one here assuming there's a different God. Muslims and Jews believe they worship the same God of Abraham that Christians do. Hindus believe that their different deities are just many faces of the same ultimate entity. Atheists and agnostics have either no belief or no firm belief in God, period.

You're basing your question on an assumption that you created for the question. You're puzzling yourself.

I beg to differ. They all cannot be the same God if the beliefs are so far apart.

God is not a God of confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chasemeifyoucan]

it was 1400 years ago, girls got married right after they reached puberty.

All our ancestors did that, so it was a common thing back in those days.

Just to inform you Muslims dont hate you. You are not qualified to speak for your entire faith, many Muslims DO hate non believers

Thank you. Allah knows best

[Humes]

But I'll admit this is a really disturbing thing to discuss.

Very. All now I wonderin what kinda unwanted search engine attention this might be getting the forum. Or worse.

But I don't think it should be off bounds to discuss this. These fellas discuss everything they deem to be sexual perversion all the time.

[megadoc1]

Anyway on the topic of Dr. Naik specifically the "Does God Exist?" video, he didn't prove God's existence, he just made an assumption that God made the earth and the Quran is essentially the user manual. Why? Because supposedly the Quran has all the answers to everything.

If God (assuming he exists) wanted believers, all he had to do was use a direct medium for communication. Not a middle man to distort the message.

stickman, Dr. naik does not have to prove God exist because his religion ls based on faith....if you have proof you won't have faith ...just sayin

[thermaltake]

humes i see you like talking about religion... Lets have a friendly conversation about your religion?.....

i realise you aint answering any of my questions?
why are you afraid?

also speak about what you know dont speak about what you hear from your neighbour...

[bluefete]

AdamB: What does "compatible" mean????

[Humes]

But I am puzzled. If there is a different God for the Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics and all others - How is it that all humans share similar features????????????? To wit - we share the same colour blood, 2 hands, 2 nostrils, 2 feet, you get my drift.

You're the only one here assuming there's a different God. Muslims and Jews believe they worship the same God of Abraham that Christians do. Hindus believe that their different deities are just many faces of the same ultimate entity. Atheists and agnostics have either no belief or no firm belief in God, period.

You're basing your question on an assumption that you created for the question. You're puzzling yourself.

I beg to differ. They all cannot be the same God if the beliefs are so far apart.

God is not a God of confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you aren't differing.

You're doing exactly what I said you're doing.

[thermaltake]

or n i wouldn't get married to a 9 year old in the year 2012.. but 1400 years ago i wud.. maybe you dont know the age people long ago use to get married.... you should research... it might help you...

[Humes]

or n i wouldn't get married to a 9 year old in the year 2012.. but 1400 years ago i wud.. maybe you dont know the age people long ago use to get married.... you should research... it might help you...

So are you saying that what was right back then isn't right anymore?

[thermaltake]

Anyway on the topic of Dr. Naik specifically the "Does God Exist?" video, he didn't prove God's existence, he just made an assumption that God made the earth and the Quran is essentially the user manual. Why? Because supposedly the Quran has all the answers to everything.

If God (assuming he exists) wanted believers, all he had to do was use a direct medium for communication. Not a middle man to distort the message.

stickman, Dr. naik does not have to prove God exist because his religion ls based on faith....if you have proof you won't have faith ...just sayin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNKA-_S ... re=related hope this help you...

[megadoc1]

or n i wouldn't get married to a 9 year old in the year 2012.. but 1400 years ago i wud.. maybe you dont know the age people long ago use to get married.... you should research... it might help you...

why not help him out with some answers? its a discussion after all! I want to know too ,not that I did not study, its just that I will like to hear your reply..thanks

[bluefete]

But I am puzzled. If there is a different God for the Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics and all others - How is it that all humans share similar features????????????? To wit - we share the same colour blood, 2 hands, 2 nostrils, 2 feet, you get my drift.

You're the only one here assuming there's a different God. Muslims and Jews believe they worship the same God of Abraham that Christians do. Hindus believe that their different deities are just many faces of the same ultimate entity. Atheists and agnostics have either no belief or no firm belief in God, period.

You're basing your question on an assumption that you created for the question. You're puzzling yourself.

I beg to differ. They all cannot be the same God if the beliefs are so far apart.

God is not a God of confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you aren't differing.

You're doing exactly what I said you're doing.

People believe their religion is the right one. Is it really one God under so many different beliefs?

[thermaltake]

or n i wouldn't get married to a 9 year old in the year 2012.. but 1400 years ago i wud.. maybe you dont know the age people long ago use to get married.... you should research... it might help you...

So are you saying that what was right back then isn't right anymore?

i will not answer anymore of your questions.. i tink you are very selfish... why not answer any of my questions? are they to hard for you? or are you afraid of the truth?

[thermaltake]

It was normal for people of ALL religions to get married pretty early at puberty not even that long ago. That was in the times when people didn't sleep around with anyone, and understood the importance of marriage and keeping their virginity until they're married. How pathetic are you people who spend everyday of your life finding something to insult a person's religion. Do you have no life? I care about my beliefs, and my life revolves around things important to me, not insulting and hurting the feelings of others. Grow up.

[Humes]

humes i see you like talking about religion... Lets have a friendly conversation about your religion?.....

i realise you aint answering any of my questions?
why are you afraid?

also speak about what you know dont speak about what you hear from your neighbour...

I'm afraid that you're going to use that as an excuse to start up some other ole talk and not answer the very simple questions I've asked you. That fear is well-founded.

If I don't know what I'm talking about, educate me. Are any of the things I've said about Mohammed so far untrue?

[bluefete]

or n i wouldn't get married to a 9 year old in the year 2012.. but 1400 years ago i wud.. maybe you dont know the age people long ago use to get married.... you should research... it might help you...

So are you saying that what was right back then isn't right anymore?

And what was wrong back then isn't wrong anymore?

[thermaltake]

humes i see you like talking about religion... Lets have a friendly conversation about your religion?.....

i realise you aint answering any of my questions?
why are you afraid?

also speak about what you know dont speak about what you hear from your neighbour...

I'm afraid that you're going to use that as an excuse to start up some other ole talk and not answer the very simple questions I've asked you. That fear is well-founded.

If I don't know what I'm talking about, educate me. Are any of the things I've said about Mohammed so far untrue?

do you want a job in family fued? because you will do welll... asking question but afraid to answer somone when they ask you somthing.. so pathetic... Grow Up kid....