The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

Those with 2 feet better than those with 4 feet

[AdamB]

Before I respond to the Aishah issue, I would to get your views as to what is the earliest age that a female should get married and at what age to consummate it.

What I am looking for is the basis for such, be it biological, physiological, religious or other.

Just tell us how you feel about the topic. If you think it's acceptable and justified, tell us how and why.

Straight talk about your religion. You don't need anyone's views to do that.

Is sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old girl an action or attitude of the prophet that you would emulate? Do you think it's okay that he fondled her before she was even nine?

Do you think it's something that should be practiced and allowed in modern society?

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

[AdamB]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

I agree that the last few post kinda get rough! (noticed I did not take part in it) and I now came unto this page to asked that they take it down a bit...but why the threat of delete? is three years now we taking licks inside here! why not just move the posts that are overboard and warn the user? deleting the topic cannot be the right thing to do now, because that particular group is now on the receiving end of the same stuff that the Christians received for over three hundred pages in which that same group partook of, exploiting the opportunity to promote their faith..
I came here to ask that some respect is shown to them but see for yourself what they were doing when we were under this same bashing

I think the "bashing" can be a bad thing in attracting users to the site. For example, some Muslims would never visit TriniTuner ever again, if they saw what we were saying in the last few pages of this thread.

That being said, I love how AdamB ignores our arguments. I'm done, since it's like talking to a wall.

And despite that, have I climbed upon my high horse (or wall) and threaten you with jihad (holy war) to exact punishment for deformation of my prophet's character?

[stickman]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

I agree that the last few post kinda get rough! (noticed I did not take part in it) and I now came unto this page to asked that they take it down a bit...but why the threat of delete? is three years now we taking licks inside here! why not just move the posts that are overboard and warn the user? deleting the topic cannot be the right thing to do now, because that particular group is now on the receiving end of the same stuff that the Christians received for over three hundred pages in which that same group partook of, exploiting the opportunity to promote their faith..
I came here to ask that some respect is shown to them but see for yourself what they were doing when we were under this same bashing

I think the "bashing" can be a bad thing in attracting users to the site. For example, some Muslims would never visit TriniTuner ever again, if they saw what we were saying in the last few pages of this thread.

That being said, I love how AdamB ignores our arguments. I'm done, since it's like talking to a wall.

And despite that, have I climbed upon my high horse (or wall) and threaten you with jihad (holy war) to exact punishment for deformation of my prophet's character?

No... we were just having arguments.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

I agree that the last few post kinda get rough! (noticed I did not take part in it) and I now came unto this page to asked that they take it down a bit...but why the threat of delete? is three years now we taking licks inside here! why not just move the posts that are overboard and warn the user? deleting the topic cannot be the right thing to do now, because that particular group is now on the receiving end of the same stuff that the Christians received for over three hundred pages in which that same group partook of, exploiting the opportunity to promote their faith..
I came here to ask that some respect is shown to them but see for yourself what they were doing when we were under this same bashing

we don't actually delete topics like this - it may get locked and cleaned up. However I also think it is important for readers to see the reaction of those responding to arguments in any discussion.

[Humes]

Simple and serious question:

If a man is convicted of having sex with a nine-year-old today, he's condemned in the severest manner possible.

Why, then, is it off-bounds to condemn Mohammed for having sex with a nine-year-old? Why is it disrespectful to say you're disgusted by that behavior?

Does any Muslim want to weigh in on this?

[Humes]

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

People questioning whether you think it's okay to have sex with girls under the age of 10, and you dancing around.

You're actually saying a lot more about yourself and your religion than you think.

[chasemeifyoucan]

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

People questioning whether you think it's okay to have sex with girls under the age of 10, and you dancing around.

You're actually saying a lot more about yourself and your religion than you think.

He is consulting and researching with colleagues before he responds.

Surprising that none of the other Islamic posters are even trying to respond to the question.

[AdamB]

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

People questioning whether you think it's okay to have sex with girls under the age of 10, and you dancing around.

You're actually saying a lot more about yourself and your religion than you think.

He is consulting and researching with colleagues before he responds.

Surprising that none of the other Islamic posters are even trying to respond to the question.

You need to have some patience, ppl have a life, job, extra curricular activities, kids, etc.

[AdamB]

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

People questioning whether you think it's okay to have sex with girls under the age of 10, and you dancing around.

You're actually saying a lot more about yourself and your religion than you think.

Questions to be asked:

Was it common practise in Arabian society 1400 yrs ago?

Who objected to the marriage?

Was it against the law at that time?

What is "at age"? Were girls 9 yrs of age 1400 yrs ago developed physically and mentally to be considered as such? What evidence do we have?

Did Aishah "dislike" the prophet? What was mentioned before was misleading. Take a read of the hadith below. She used to lie between him and the direction he used to face (the Kabah) while he was praying because their apartment was just a few feet in each direction (less than 8ft possibly).

She DISLIKED to sit and trouble him WHEN HE WAS PRAYING, possibly meaning also she disliked to pass in front of him. It is OK to be in front of someone but disliked to PASS IN FRONT OF THEM WHILST PRAYING.

SHE DIDN'T DISLIKE HIM BECAUSE HE MOLESTED HER!! (which is what was indirectly suggested before).Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

[stickman]

Just trying a dspike or Megadoc1 vs Humes (evil stalemate)!!

People questioning whether you think it's okay to have sex with girls under the age of 10, and you dancing around.

You're actually saying a lot more about yourself and your religion than you think.

Questions to be asked:

Was it common practise in Arabian society 1400 yrs ago?

Who objected to the marriage?

Was it against the law at that time?

What is "at age"? Were girls 9 yrs of age 1400 yrs ago developed physically and mentally to be considered as such? What evidence do we have?

Did Aishah "dislike" the prophet? What was mentioned before was misleading. Take a read of the hadith below. She used to lie between him and the direction he used to face (the Kabah) while he was praying because their apartment was just a few feet in each direction (less than 8ft possibly).

She DISLIKED to sit and trouble him WHEN HE WAS PRAYING, possibly meaning also she disliked to pass in front of him. It is OK to be in front of someone but disliked to PASS IN FRONT OF THEM WHILST PRAYING.

SHE DIDN'T DISLIKE HIM BECAUSE HE MOLESTED HER!! (which is what was indirectly suggested before).Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

So based on that big red bold text you admit he molested her?

You may be right about that specific hadith. Have you also read Number 490? But from other narratives from Aisha, she spoke in a manner which shows that she was hostile to Islam and Muhammad. Hence why Aisha's narratives are considered low ranking by many Islamic Scholars.

[bluefete]

Wow!!!!!! But that is all part of any discussion involving religion, sex or politics. I think many people have learned so much about each others' religions and non-religions from the postings here.

But I am puzzled. If there is a different God for the Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics and all others - How is it that all humans share similar features????????????? To wit - we share the same colour blood, 2 hands, 2 nostrils, 2 feet, you get my drift.

I Thank you O lord that I am wonderfully, fearfully made. Already you knew my soul when I was being fashioned in secret - Psalm 139



How the human face is formed: Video shows how a baby's unique features develop in the womb

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 22:30 GMT, 5 July 2012 | UPDATED: 22:30 GMT, 5 July 2012

It's what every expectant parent wants to know - who their baby will look like.

And this fascinating video goes some way to showing why.

Produced for the BBC series Inside the Human Body that was aired last year, the animation is based on scans of a developing embryo and captures the formation of the face in the womb.

The video reveals how sections of the face grow and fit together like a puzzle just three months after conception.

BBC’s Michael Mosley said: 'The three main sections of the puzzle meet in the middle of your top lip, creating the groove that is your philtrum.'

The amazing BBC video shows the development of the human face whilst in the womb

The 30-second clip strings together 3-D models of the developing face based on scans taken in the first trimester.

'It was a nightmare for structures like the nose and palate, which didn’t exist for most of the animation,' graphics researcher David Barker told New Scientist.

Their formation is a complicated ballet of growth and fusion of moving plates of tissue.'

Plates of tissue that fuse at the philtrum, which can be long or short and deep or shallow, depending on a person’s genetic makeup.

The failure of those plates to fuse can cause a cleft lip or palate. And a smooth philtrum can signal disorders like fetal alcohol syndrome.

'This whole amazing process – the bits coming together to produce a recognisable human face – happens in the womb between two and three months,' said Mr Mosley. 'If it doesn’t happen then, it never will.'

Taking shape: The face develops eyes and a mouth and the beginnings of a nose

Nearly there: The face is now beginning to be recognisable

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z1znYT4grZ

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012 ... d-in-womb/

[Humes]

Questions to be answered:

How do you feel about Mohammed having had sex with a nine-year-old girl? And the sexual thigh-massaging thing before she was nine...how do you feel about that?

Do you think it's okay for you, as a Muslim, to have sex with a nine-year-old girl in emulation of the Prophet?

Would you have sex with a nine-year-old child today if it were legal, commonly-practiced, and her parents were okay with it?

Real simple questions.

thermaltake, you can weigh in on these questions too.

[Humes]

But I am puzzled. If there is a different God for the Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics and all others - How is it that all humans share similar features????????????? To wit - we share the same colour blood, 2 hands, 2 nostrils, 2 feet, you get my drift.

You're the only one here assuming there's a different God. Muslims and Jews believe they worship the same God of Abraham that Christians do. Hindus believe that their different deities are just many faces of the same ultimate entity. Atheists and agnostics have either no belief or no firm belief in God, period.

You're basing your question on an assumption that you created for the question. You're puzzling yourself.

[thermaltake]

Simple and serious question:

If a man is convicted of having sex with a nine-year-old today, he's condemned in the severest manner possible.

Why, then, is it off-bounds to condemn Mohammed for having sex with a nine-year-old? Why is it disrespectful to say you're disgusted by that behavior?

Does any Muslim want to weigh in on this?

if a man marry a 9 year old girl and have sex with her is different from a man jus raping ah 9 yr old girl...

[Humes]

Questions to be asked:

Was it common practise in Arabian society 1400 yrs ago?

Who objected to the marriage?

Was it against the law at that time?

What is "at age"? Were girls 9 yrs of age 1400 yrs ago developed physically and mentally to be considered as such? What evidence do we have?

I know I cyar be the only person who chuckling at this rationalisation. Because it can be applied to any number of practices currently condemned by Islam. It shows that religious laws and rules are contextual thing that lose relevance and applicability over time.

It's basically a perfect embodiment of one of the main arguments against religion. And here it is, being forwarded by a Muslim.

Don't forget to respond to my other questions, AdamB and thermaltake.

[thermaltake]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

i aint bash nobody topic or god or religion.. but it have fellas here call my Prophet a pedofile. they shud get ban...

[Humes]

Simple and serious question:

If a man is convicted of having sex with a nine-year-old today, he's condemned in the severest manner possible.

Why, then, is it off-bounds to condemn Mohammed for having sex with a nine-year-old? Why is it disrespectful to say you're disgusted by that behavior?

Does any Muslim want to weigh in on this?

if a man marry a 9 year old girl and have sex with her is different from a man jus raping ah 9 yr old girl...

Right right. Rock-solid argument there.

One is wrong and one is just fine, right?

[Humes]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

i aint bash nobody topic or god or religion.. but it have fellas here call my Prophet a pedofile. they shud get ban...

Why should they get banned?

According to elders in your own religion, the man was rubbing his penis between the thighs of a girl younger than nine years old.

Why should people be forbidden from saying how they feel about that?

Instead of trying to silence them, why don't you try to explain it and educate them?

[thermaltake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZMt17FK-tM

[thermaltake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKeAWobp9dY

[thermaltake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loJPlPVP ... re=related

[thermaltake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM

[stickman]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

i aint bash nobody topic or god or religion.. but it have fellas here call my Prophet a pedofile. they shud get ban...

We are calling him a pedophile because we have the evidence.

[Humes]

thermaltake, what do YOU have to say?

What are YOUR responses to the questions asked?

How do YOU feel about what Mohammed did?

Is it something you'd be okay with another man doing today? Is it something you'd do yourself?

[Humes]

stickman, provoke discussion, not emotions. If the discussion enraging people, that eh your fault. But doh chook.

[thermaltake]

stickman, provoke discussion, not emotions. If the discussion enraging people, that eh your fault. But doh chook.

there is nothing you can say to me that will enrage me... i have sabr...

[AdamB]

Simple and serious question:

If a man is convicted of having sex with a nine-year-old today, he's condemned in the severest manner possible.

Because it is against the law.

Why, then, is it off-bounds to condemn Mohammed for having sex with a nine-year-old? Why is it disrespectful to say you're disgusted by that behavior?

It's disrespectful to judge without all of the facts.

Does any Muslim want to weigh in on this?

Firstly:

Islam does not give a specific age for marriage, either for the husband or for the wife. Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not” [al-Talaaq 65:4].

Al-Sa‘di (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “along with those who have it [menses] not” means minors, those who have not yet started to menstruate. Adult women who have never menstruated at all are like those who “despair of menstruation” (i.e., have passed menopause); their ‘iddah is three months. End quote. Tafseer al-Sa‘di, p. 870

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) when she was six years old and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4840) and Muslim (1422).

Ibn Qudaamah (may Allah have mercy on him) said in al-Sharh al-Kabeer, 7/386:

With regard to females, the father may give his minor, virgin daughter who has not yet reached the age of nine in marriage, and there is no difference of opinion concerning that, if he gives her in marriage to someone who is compatible. Ibn al-Mundhir said: All of those scholars from whom we acquired knowledge unanimously agreed that it is permissible for a father to give his minor daughter in marriage if he arranges her to someone who is compatible, and it is permissible for him to do that even if she is reluctant. End quote.

Secondly:

No one may give a minor daughter in marriage except her father according to the view of Maalik and Ahmad. This was also the view of al-Shaafa‘i, but he regarded the grandfather as being like the father in that regard. Abu Haneefah said – and it was also narrated from Ahmad – that it is permissible for a guardian other than the father to give (the minor girl) in marriage, but the more correct view is the former one. See: al-Mughni, 7/33

Thirdly:

The father should not give a minor daughter in marriage except in a case where he thinks it is in her best interests. Just as he may only dispose of her wealth in that which is in her best interests, the same applies with regard to arranging her marriage. Islam only permits that to the Muslim father who is pious and pays proper attention to the best interests of his children, and who understands very well that he is a shepherd and that he is responsible for his flock.

Ibn Wahb narrated that Maalik said, with regard to a man arranging a marriage for an orphan girl under his care: If he thinks that (the husband) is a man of virtue, righteousness and wisdom, it is permissible for him to do that. Ahkaam al-Qur’aan by al-Jassaas, 2/342

Fourthly:

A man should not consummate marriage with his young bride until she is physically able to bear intercourse. This varies from one time, place and environment to another.

What young men and guardians of girls should do is hasten to arrange marriages, so as to guard chastity and protect honour, and so as to attain the great purposes for which Allah ordained marriage.

[stickman]

stickman, provoke discussion, not emotions. If the discussion enraging people, that eh your fault. But doh chook.

Okay.

Anyway on the topic of Dr. Naik specifically the "Does God Exist?" video, he didn't prove God's existence, he just made an assumption that God made the earth and the Quran is essentially the user manual. Why? Because supposedly the Quran has all the answers to everything.

If God (assuming he exists) wanted believers, all he had to do was use a direct medium for communication. Not a middle man to distort the message.

[thermaltake]

i have a little advice for you guys.. try to educate your self.. learn somthing.. or to your question.. if a man wants to marry a girl of the age of nine i see nothing wrong in that once her parents agree.. also he must wait for her to be mature to consummate the marriage..