The Religion Discussion

[Stuff]

God is real. I mean what kind of question is that?
how do you think life came about? it didn't just happen by itself.
hence god is real we all are his children. what the world has come to today isnt his fault
its ours it may not be your fault but its sheit like money ,power, greed an material objects all lead us away from god.
my advice , dont believe most of what the bible says.

[bluefete]

^ very interesting indeed! good find

except that if you want to use the above as proof then you need to follow through with all the other fossil data that shows that those puddles of mud evolved into single celled amoeba and then on to multi-cellular animals that evolved into the animals that roam the earth today, including humans.

unless of course you want to continue the popular practice in here of selective and convenient argument and proof.

We are not told that puddles of mud EVOLVED into anything. The atheistic argument that life started in mud with a lightning strike is very Frankensteinish! Dawkins tried to make a very convincing argument for this but his logic broke down with the lightning strike.

You always talk about scientific proof and replication.

How come scientists have not been able to reproduce the spark of creation?

It is amazing in all the evolutionary mumbo-jumbo (my opinion) that the origin of life gets cluttered. Maybe this is to hide the fact that scientists can only guess and once they keep God out of the equation, they will forever be guessing.

If life started with a lightning strike into a puddle of mud, then this should be replicated every day, millions of times over. But I don't see inanimate mud being transformed into life forms everyday. Or was this a one-off event?

[sMASH]

a scholar of something is a person who studies that thing in detail and knows it quite well. they do not have to subscribe to it to be a scholar at it. case in point, u don't have to believe in a certain religion to study it and know about what it contains, i.e. be a scholar at it.
but because of how tedious the indepth research is, most times people would only become scholars if they deeply invested in it.

[RBphoto]

AdamB, Dr. Zakir Naik is very proficient in the Bible and Christian theology. He has recited long passages from memory and understands the Bible better than a lot of, if not most, Christians. However he is not Christian.

Memorization does not mean understanding. He bashes the bible and vedas constantly and vhelmently.

[AdamB]

God is real. I mean what kind of question is that?
how do you think life came about? it didn't just happen by itself.
hence god is real we all are his children. what the world has come to today isnt his fault
its ours it may not be your fault but its sheit like money ,power, greed an material objects all lead us away from god.
my advice , dont believe most of what the bible says.

Selective belief...how convenient!! That's like some choosing what to stay away from (to fast) for lent. Like chocolate, meat, etc

[AdamB]

Humes,
You are confusing yourself with an erroneous definition, possibly non-sensical. A scholar is knowledgeable of his religion.

Partner, we talking about the real world here. Real language, real definitions. Not personal interpretations of terms.

A religious scholar is not necessarily an adherent of the religion or religions he specialises in.

Pal,
Islam is not to blame for deficiency in terminology...there is a vast difference between students of knowledge and scholars.

There is no worse calamity for knowledge and for scholars than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant and think that they are knowledgeable; they ruin everything and believe that they are helping. Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi

[AdamB]

so who CAN it be understood by then?

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #7)

[AdamB]

AdamB, Dr. Zakir Naik is very proficient in the Bible and Christian theology. He has recited long passages from memory and understands the Bible better than a lot of, if not most, Christians. However he is not Christian.

Memorization does not mean understanding. He bashes the bible and vedas constantly and vhelmently.

According to what these guys above are saying, he is a scholar. So why don't you listen to him? Is he not reciting from your scriptures? He shows where man is deviating from their scriptures, so he is bashing them!! Again, selective biased terminology.

If you look at his talks, does he not dress in western suits and when he speaks his hands are on his chest one on top of the other? Is there a better etiquette or is this the etiquette of one who is bashing others?

[AdamB]

AdamB, Dr. Zakir Naik is very proficient in the Bible and Christian theology. He has recited long passages from memory and understands the Bible better than a lot of, if not most, Christians. However he is not Christian.

Christians will say he is not a scholar of christianity.

He is not a scholar of Islam, according to Islamic standards. He may be better described as a student of knowledge and a da'ee, a caller to GOD / Islamic monotheism.

[AdamB]

It is our book, who else do you expect to fully understand it?

The Quran cannot be understood by just anyone!!

are you suggesting that the Qur'an can only be understood by Muslims? There are different levels of understanding and the deducing of laws, hidden meanings and benefits. The scholars know what we (the laymen) know not.

Everyone can understand the basic (scratch the surface) meanings from the translations but the Quran is an Arabic Quran, the language itself adds to the meaning or brings out the full meaning.

Also, the Quran is not perfect. It is a flawed book just like the others. Why? Because it was written by men just like you and me, it's not the speech of God.

can you prove that?

I will venture to ask a question here: Is there any other religious book that is without doubt in terms of the source having evidence of it being revealed or written? I mean in terms of objective evidence / documented historical facts. That is not in dispute as to being changed or corrupted by man over time. That you can pick up ANY TWO COPIES OF MILLIONS IN PRINT and they are IDENTICAL, WORD FOR WORD, LETTER FOR LETTER!!!

[16 cycles]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

[AdamB]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

A couple of weeks ago, Crossdrilled brought up the topic of charity / usage of money to help others. I posted what muslims do. Didn't see anyone else do the same. Maybe they prefer to bash each other hiding behind user names.

If I say "please pledge to donate food-stuff, clothing to make hampers to help those in need, will anyone respond?" Will you take the responsibility of collection and distribution?

My mosque is distributing hampers to the needy in Mayaro tomorrow. Maybe we can collect and arrange another distribution.

Any thoughts?

[stickman]

I will venture to ask a question here: Is there any other religious book that is without doubt in terms of the source having evidence of it being revealed or written? I mean in terms of objective evidence / documented historical facts. That is not in dispute as to being changed or corrupted by man over time. That you can pick up ANY TWO COPIES OF MILLIONS IN PRINT and they are IDENTICAL, WORD FOR WORD, LETTER FOR LETTER!!!

Again, why the obsession with the Quran being unchanged after all these years. You just use this to justify your religon's "superiority" over the others.

Dr. Zakir Naik is a very intelligent man, in that he has memorized many religious scriptures and he loves to argue Islam vs Christianity. The same methods he uses to find errors in the Bible can apply to the Quran as well. Which goes to show that he has not challenged the Quran due to the thought of it being perfect.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

I asked that earlier and was told that "not by works do we achieve salvation"

[Bizzare]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

[MG Man]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

most religions teach intolerance, which in turn leads to hate

[Bizzare]

exactly

[Humes]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

most religions teach intolerance, which in turn leads to hate

Hate leads to suffering.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

most religions teach intolerance, which in turn leads to hate

Hate leads to suffering.

suffering leads to the dark side

[chasemeifyoucan]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

most religions teach intolerance, which in turn leads to hate

Hate leads to suffering.

suffering leads to the dark side

[sMASH]

aliens, are there any, any way?

islam teaches that god made every thing we know of and every thing that we do not. this tells u that there are things that we do not know about. we are told that there are seven heavens and all the stars and stuff we see are in the first heaven, i.e. our universe. we are told that there is 500 years between the heavens. after the seventh heaven there is the foot stool of god. the seventh heaven compared to the foot stool is like little ring tossed in a desert. the foot stool compared to some water ( don't know what that water is cause we have indoor plumbing now) is like a ring tossed in a desert. the water above the foot stool is under the throne, which is like a ring tossed in a desert compared to the throne.

these just goes to show the size perspective of the things we are dealing with and dealing inside of.

there are quite a lot that we do not know about, and the possibility of life else where than on earth is quite probable. may not be in this dimension but in other dimensions as well.

islam also teaches that the basic fundamental belief is that god is one, and the creation (i.e. everything other than god) was created to worship him.
aliens don't need to follow the tenants of islam to be worshiping god in the basic fundamental way.

we are told that islam was sent to jinn and men. so this religion that we encounter is for us. they may have other teachings to follow.

but just like here on earth many messengers were sent to different peoples at different times, the same thing may be going on but on a galactic scale. there may also be varied religions amongst non earth civilizations, and also atheism and agnosticism.

so, by default, i do not expect that aliens would be practising islam as we do on earth for the shear size of the universe and things other than the universe. but if there are aliens and they do it in a form similar, that would be mind boggling.

[sMASH]

someone told me that the present pope, the german was a former hilter youth,

nothing significant, as the past is the past and he may have been naive.

then you have the european union being led by germany, and calling some hard shots for spain and greece.

i say, well played germany..

[Flex030]

I rather live believing that there is a God and die finding out there isn't, Than to live not believing in God and die finding out that there is a God. (Think about that for a while)

Leave all the Judging up to Jesus and you live your life the righteous way by loving each other as you love thyself and learn to forgive others if we want to be forgiven. Forget about the people who going to church and not fulfilling righteousness, you go to church! Show them how to be nice and do what is right and just.........

To all the non-believers God gave us the freedom of choice, you are free to choose whatever you want to believe; Just chose wisely. We are seeing evil around us every day but we chose to believe in evil and other life forms more than believe in God. Have faith! if you open the door to your heart and soul to let Jesus in your lives you would see the world through a much better eye.

Discussions about religion and politics never get us any where positive but it's healthy to hear and read other people views. Everyone is entitled to their own perception on topics, however it doesn't give you the right to disrespect or hurt someone else because you have freedom to do so.

Share your views respect each other views but please do not make enemies out of it.

God Bless you all!!!

[sweetiepaper]

Evolution is not a religion as yourself and other ignorant (of what science is) posters believe.

What is it?

I implore you to read about what a scientific process is before you continue to make yourself look not so intelligent.

I did, where are you going with that?

[Bizzare]

I rather live believing that there is a God and die finding out there isn't, Than to live not believing in God and die finding out that there is a God. (Think about that for a while)

This would mean that your belief in God isn't 100%, but more of an insurance and that would make your belief in God vain. (I believe in God btw)

[sweetiepaper]

We have no way of verifying the claims of NDEs either, other than their own account.

Have you verified the evolutionists' claims?

any book on biology and evolution will explain it to you.

Which biology book did you use? All i am asking is what did YOU read or hear that made you accept the idea that humans evolved from monkeys?
We agreed that not everyone requires the same level of information for them to accept something as proven (keeping in mind that doesn't make it true). Your level of proof is the criteria you would like to be satisfied in order for something to be true to you.
Although the majority of the world believes in a God and believers have sufficient proof with their personal spiritual experiences, this is not enough for you to be convinced that God is real. That's understandable since you may have not had such an experience yourself.
What i don't get is why you would believe the majority of scientists who tell you a human was once a monkey without having the first hand experience as well.
While it may be possible for you to verify their work, you have not done so, and even if you did, you may not be qualified to give approval of the results.
Most people take comfort in the fact that scientific work is peer reviewed by qualified persons but if you don't have the first hand evidence and understanding of it then aren't you following in blind faith? You are just accepting the conclusion without understanding the entire material.

I think you are terrified by the thought of being descended from apes or a puddle of mud.

The only thing that terrifies me about that is the lack of common sense fueling the belief that humans came from apes or a puddle of mud.

[sweetiepaper]

Was it the "great" atheist Richard Dawkins who agreed with Aristotle's theory that human life came from mud via abiogenesis (the evolution of life from mud)???

Does he support the creationist perspective while simultaneously denying it????

When told he is described as the world's most famous atheist, Dawkins replied "not by me".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... exist.html

[AdamB]

"inter-religious" is a term that contradicts itself and religious folks indulging in inter-religious activities only seek to make a hypocrite of themselves

most religions teach intolerance, which in turn leads to hate

Hate leads to suffering.

suffering leads to the dark side

Are these all excuses not to give in charity to help out your fellow man?

Ask yourselves honestly, when last did you give in charity (without being coerced in some way)? When last did you seek out someone needy to help? Do you give in charity annually? What percentage of your saving$ do you usually give? If you gave to a charitable group or church or the like, did you check to see if the monies donated reached its destination?

[AdamB]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

I asked that earlier and was told that "not by works do we achieve salvation"[/quote]
According to Islamic teachings, Paradise is a reward for THOSE WHO BELIEVE and WORK RIGHTEOUS GOOD DEEDS.

So due to belief, one will ACT ie do WORKS to achieve salvation. I said it before, true belief comprises ACCEPTANCE and SUBMISSION.

[Humes]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

I asked that earlier and was told that "not by works do we achieve salvation"

I always found this to be one of the most pathetic, abominable Christian mindset. It exists solely to allow the useless pious to think they're better to non-believers and members of other faiths who actually contribute to the betterment of people's lives.