IS HELL REAL???

[turbohead]

Suppose a document should surface in the East among some ruins that claims to be an accepted scripture of some old Islamic sect, showing their realization that Jesus was God? Should the Christians all demand that Muslims everywhere accept this document as scripture? Don't be silly.

key word there, we dont deal with "supposedly" and "ifs" we deal with facts, as i stated before if you could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus(pbuh) Claimed Godship or being part of "trinity" in the bible then i would reconsider my position, but i dont want parables i want clear wording.
if you go through the human history it would show you that the persons who claimed Godship amongst the ppl was actually tyrants and wicked ppl, like pharoh for example, why would you as a believer associate a Jesus(pbuh) in this category when in fact he never did. if you want to go with the miraculous birth as reason then adam(pbuh) would be a greater God as i mentioned because he didnt have a father nor mother. if it is through his many miracles then all the previous prophets along with Muhammed(saw) would be Gods as they all came with there gifts. Muhammed(saw) with the greatest gift which was the Quran. Among his many miracles was his ability to split the moon in half and put it back together, he also had the miracles of the previous prophets also by raising the dead, water ran from his fingers in the time of a drought which able a whole city to have water and also store it. all by the permission of Allaah, God of the universe and all that is in it.

i am open for truth once it is in front of me, so far none of you either atheist or christian or ppl in the middle has given me clear fact that what you say is true, back to the original question at hand, do you believe therein of the hell and its torment or do you tink you could do what the hell you want and dont have to answer for it because of the "sacrificial lamb"?

[SR-B14]

d spike,simple yes and no's would suffice, so far the conversation has been very interesting but you hide your answers in long drawn out analogies,that's why I may be interpreting wrong, in my responses I have not quoted scripture or hid behind religion, nor claimed I am right and you are wrong. It's not the fear of dieing and going to Hell why I believe in Jesus Christ, it's my personal choice, my own free will, thanks for the debate but which choice you make will have the greater to loose.

[turbohead]

d spike,simple yes and no's would suffice, so far the conversation has been very interesting but you hide your answers in long drawn out analogies,that's why I may be interpreting wrong, in my responses I have not quoted scripture or hid behind religion, nor claimed I am right and you are wrong. It's not the fear of dieing and going to Hell why I believe in Jesus Christ, it's my personal choice, my own free will, thanks for the debate but which choice you make will have the greater to loose.

asking many christians and they give this same response as a personal choice, but to choose it you must have some clear evidence that he said hold on to me as your God and i will save you. and this is what puzzles me, most christians cannot answer this question and also the requirement for them to explain the trinity to me and for it to hold up firmly has also made them look shaky, as most of them would say that it is so and we were thought to believe in sunday school so we carry on with it

[d spike]

key word there, we dont deal with "supposedly" and "ifs" we deal with facts

That's a very nice, level-headed statement... but I dare say it is rather laughable when one considers that this is religion you're talking about - a matter of faith, or what you believe, rather than what you know. Fundamentalists always confuse the two concepts of Faith and Knowledge.
Bear in mind that your "facts" are based on writings that you BELIEVE to be original. Why? For this is what you were taught. This is precisely the same reason why megadoc raves, and why die-hard Nazis fought.
I have always held that the best religion for a person is the one they decide is best for themselves, whether they were born into it or chose it. We all have to undertake that journey in our lives, and the road that helps us best to realize why we are here, is the right choice. Different people need different paths. If Islam is yours, then all the best to you, and I will certainly do the best I can to ensure your right to believe what you choose is never taken away from you.
Just don't expect other religions to make as much sense to you as yours - that's part of why your choice is yours.

do you tink you could do what the hell you want and dont have to answer for it because of the "sacrificial lamb"?

No Christian in his right mind, who knows his religion, would believe such rubbish. If you know any who ascribe to this crap, tell them they'd better prepare to shovel a lot of hot coals in the next rounds.

Cheers

[sharkman121]

oil prices have gone up too much to sustain's hell's fires, they just use a cardboard cutout of an inferno now, let's just say it's not as scary...

[d spike]

d spike,simple yes and no's would suffice

Simple 'yes' and 'no' answers suffice for simple questions. Answering complex questions with simple answers show a basic misunderstanding of what the question is about.

but you hide your answers in long drawn out analogies

Hidden? My answers are not hidden, but rather, explained by, the "long drawn out analogies". I just clarified my points, ensuring that they could not be misunderstood... If I wanted to hide my answers, I simply would not have answered. It's either you wish to understand the points I make, or you are only interested in performing a condescending interrogation...

[megadoc1]

so do you believe that it was truly angel gabriel who came with the word to muhammed(saw) and imparted the Quran to him from Allaah.no! because the quran now presents a god that differs from the God of the bible.. ironically a few hundred years before Muhammad, Christians were warned that

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

a person who subscribes to the bible, would come to the conclusion that
"Gabriel" was on his own and not from God,now taking such into consideration, it would be sufficient to say,that "Gabriel" was actually Satan or one of his followers.




this compilation of the Quran wasnt a light matter, when they announced to the public that to bring forth watever pieces of Quran you have you had to walk with 2 accountable witnesses that proved your truth and you werent able to distort the words as it was by this time well memorized by many hafiz starting with the first Muhammed(saw).
I liked d spike's response to this


they removed the gospel of St barnabus way before which you mentioned.
you have something to back this up? I posted something that was said by a muslim scholar
is he wrong?

it was the truth.
the bible speaks of the comforter what do you say on this part?
lets take a look

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

according to this passage
it is sufficient to say that Jesus was speaking about the Holy Spirit......
Muhammad did not glorify Jesus,
whatever he presented, was a different god from whom Jesus presented.
based on this passage Muhammad at best should have been pointing to Jesus.......

[/quote]

asking many christians and they give this same response as a personal choice, but to choose it you must have some clear evidence that he said hold on to me as your God and i will save you. Jesus said this exactly


and this is what puzzles me, most christians cannot answer this question and also the requirement for them to explain the trinity to me and for it to hold up firmly
what are your requirements for such to "hold up firmly"?
has also made them look shaky, as most of them would say that it is so and we were thought to believe in sunday school so we carry on with it
thought to believe? come on man

he also had the miracles of the previous prophets also by raising the dead
now this is new

[konartis]

nothing is real, when we die our eyes close and we will never wake up anywhere...think of it as sleeping, you close your eyes but in this case you never awake...thats it! people create this after life to comfort their selves of the tought of dying, but theres nothing after we die, it doesnt make sense at all!

[skylinechild]

If some of you think your job is hell, you're in the wrong field.

nah boy pios....i not in the wrong field.....is jus that some of my fellow co workers are in the wrong field.....they feel unmotivated to work.....so they try their best not to.....and make my life a living hell.....

[d spike]

nothing is real, when we die our eyes close and we will never wake up anywhere...think of it as sleeping, you close your eyes but in this case you never awake...thats it! people create this after life to comfort their selves of the tought of dying, but theres nothing after we die, it doesnt make sense at all!

Oh I wish yuh didn' say dat...
Now, all the holy rollers are going to descend on this spot and attempt to scare the crap out of you into believing in their version of God with claims of how you are a-heading to Hell in a hand-basket - despite the fact that your stated belief will mean that their threats won't mean anything to you...

[devrat]

nothing is real, when we die our eyes close and we will never wake up anywhere...think of it as sleeping, you close your eyes but in this case you never awake...thats it! people create this after life to comfort their selves of the tought of dying, but theres nothing after we die, it doesnt make sense at all!

Oh I wish yuh didn' say dat...
Now, all the holy rollers are going to descend on this spot and attempt to scare the crap out of you into believing in their version of God with claims of how you are a-heading to Hell in a hand-basket - despite the fact that your stated belief will mean that their threats won't mean anything to you...

ever notice that the people who want to share their religious views with you, almost never want you to share yours with them. If God doesn't like the way I live, let him tell me, not you.

I have a question to the "reformers" trying to save us sinners....it is taken from Mark Twain

"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"

[d spike]

ever notice that the people who want to share their religious views with you, almost never want you to share yours with them.

That's because they are not out to make conversation, or on a 'fact-finding' mission. They are out to draft or shanghai souls to fill the pews in whichever stable they come from. The more rears there are warming the benches, the heavier the collection baskets will be...

It is unfortunate, but the belief that "spreading the word" makes you a "deserving servant of the Lord" is easier to embrace, than just living a proper life, caring for one's fellow-man. The former just requires a wagging jaw, while the latter is a lifetime of work. It's frightening to think of how many folks think that excessive amounts of the former will negate the need of performing the latter.

If God doesn't like the way I live, let him tell me, not you.

Now yuh goin' an' hear 'bout all dem who is God's servant, doin' de Master's work...

[turbohead]

it was the truth.
the bible speaks of the comforter what do you say on this part?
lets take a look
Quote:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
according to this passage
it is sufficient to say that Jesus was speaking about the Holy Spirit......
Muhammad did not glorify Jesus,
whatever he presented, was a different god from whom Jesus presented.
based on this passage Muhammad at best should have been pointing to Jesus.......

so who else would fit the description of the spirit of truth.

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".


1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:


Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


i)

Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)


Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

Words in the mouth:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

[Deuteronomy 18:18]


iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19


"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."


3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:


It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".


4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

http://www.islam101.com/religions/chris ... mBible.htm

[turbohead]

7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

7:2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace,"

7:3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

also came across this in my findings.
this man also deserves worship by the christians because he was as said above in the book of hebrews of God like.

[brainchild]

How many more centuries of speculations and interpretations must we live through before we can just look at what all these books speak of and just live it? Is it so hard to stop talkin about what whichever God meant when he said this or said that and just fashion our lives and therefore our world based on the commonalities of all religions? Personally i don't care about heaven or hell....i'll cross that bridge when/if i get to it...because there is no proof either exist.

A discussion like this has no end, no one can be proven right or wrong. We just get further evidence of how ignorant we all are given that we have spent centuries reading the same books and the last thing on anyones mind is actually doing what it says. It's not about preaching the word to get more people to follow your God. Its about finding common ground to create peace and tolerance, its about realising that we're already living in what we all striving for through religion(heaven), its about forgetting this notion of immortality and see that we already live forever through our descendants, its about learning to exist within the natural balance of the planet instead of outside of it like we do currently.

See the bigger picture...we're focusing on the words and losing the message!

[zeeshan66]

NO way of knowing for sure but does it make sense to live life to cover your ass INCASE there is or to live it justly, compassionately and for the benefit of others.

[megadoc1]

so who else would fit the description of the spirit of truth.

we have a problem here, please remember that it was you who asked me about the comforter that Jesus spoke about ...
yuh see, if Jesus spoke to His disciples about a comforter
telling them

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.h 16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another comforter to be with you forever. 17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you.18 I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.

7 Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the comforter will not come to you. If I go, I will send Him to you.

and

When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you.

then he could not be talking about Muhammad who came 500 years after
note, he (Muhammad) did not live forever ...he died yo!!
he was not even a spirit.............
Mohammad never ever claimed that Jesus sent him. ........
further more,the disciples, would never been alive to meet with him, for they were all dead at the time of his birth
they would never been guided into all truth as Jesus promised
that would be making Jesus a liar or putting Him in a position, where He could not fulfill promises,He made to His followers..


I would suggest to you that the comforter did come in the lifetime of those disciples, whom Jesus addressed........

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I [Jesus] send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


SO When did the Comforter come?

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord (not a Honda)in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

promise fulfilled

7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

7:2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace,"

7:3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

also came across this in my findings.
this man also deserves worship by the christians because he was as said above in the book of hebrews of God like.

so now are you confessing that Jesus deserves worship?

[turbohead]

a person who subscribes to the bible, would come to the conclusion that
"Gabriel" was on his own and not from God,now taking such into consideration, it would be sufficient to say,that "Gabriel" was actually Satan or one of his followers.

i missed this part, for starters in the verses mentioned before this statement Muhammed(saw) never preached a message which was of another Jesus but of the same man. he confirmed the books before as we were thought in the Quran to accept that came before us otherwise we would affirm to islam. unlike you i have trying to look at the similarities in religion so that we could meet on mutual grounds and discuss from there i hadnt once rejected the faith and teachings of Jesus. as for the statement i quote you from above you indeed making a very grave statement to say that the Angel that was sent to all the prophets that gave them the word of God by which to teach is in fact sent by satan or is in fact he himself. to give this statement contradicts your belief due to the fact that it was Gabriel/ Jibreel that was sent to Mary the mother of Jesus by God with the Spirit which was Jesus. do you deny this or am i makin this up. according to you it would seem that you would say that Jesus due to your statement is either satan in flesh or a son of satan because gabriel came unto muhammed(saw) with his word. unless you are implying that he went rogue after the time of Jesus?

When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you

.
this alone will suffice that the comforter is in sense Muhammed(saw) because he didnt speak on his own he spoke which he heard.

1. Recite! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),

ch96 v1
in many parts of the Quran it speaks of the times and of many relevance of daily life and life cycles. as i said above the Quran confirms the unadultered books before it.

Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.


1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:


"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

he (Muhammad) did not live forever ...he died yo!!
he was not even a spirit......

you misinterpreted the words it didnt mean that Muhammed will be with them forever meaning he wouldnt die. it meant that which he spoke of which he heard which was in clear evidence the Quran would last with humanity forever unadulterated. for how many ppl you know could have memorized the bible cover to cover in its original form to how many many are known to memorize the Quran in its original form. this is truly a blessing from our creator.....

[megadoc1]

a person who subscribes to the bible, would come to the conclusion that
"Gabriel" was on his own and not from God,now taking such into consideration, it would be sufficient to say,that "Gabriel" was actually Satan or one of his followers.

i missed this part, for starters in the verses mentioned before this statement Muhammed(saw) never preached a message which was of another Jesus but of the same man. nope Jesus preached that He is the true bread that came down from
heaven and that He gives life and that you must look to Him (Jesus) to be saved

but Muhammad said that He (jesus )is just a prophet and that you must turn to allah
also Jesus presented a Jesus that died and rose again and ascended into heaven

Muhammad presented a Jesus that was taken up into heaven but never laid His life down for His sheep as promised


he confirmed the books before as we were thought in the Quran to accept that came before us otherwise we would affirm to islam.
so are you saying that these books in the bible were confirmed by Muhammad before Muslims started saying it was corrupted ?

unlike you i have trying to look at the similarities in religion so that we could meet on mutual grounds and discuss from there i hadnt once rejected the faith and teachings of Jesus.we are doing fine my friend, as long as you don't claim corruption in the books we have , just laying them side by side should suffice

as for the statement i quote you from above you indeed making a very grave statement to say that the Angel that was sent to all the prophets that gave them the word of God by which to teach is in fact sent by satan or is in fact he himself.
the prophets before Muhammad spoke directly from God, there are no records showing that Gabriel was sent to give them the word each time ,
we know God did it at different times and different ways
but their words pointed ahead to the promise of a Messiah. This Messiah has now come—Jesus Christ.
Muhammad words contradicted all that came before him, even the point
where he is termed the greatest prophet ,contradicts a former prophet ,cause Jesus said that John was the greatest of all prophets, yet any one who believe on Him (Jesus) is greater than John
did Muhammad believe in Jesus so that he could be greater than john?
and if Jesus is a prophet why is he (Muhammad) greater than Jesus?


to give this statement contradicts your belief due to the fact that it was Gabriel/ Jibreel that was sent to Mary the mother of Jesus by God with the Spirit which was Jesus.
do you deny this or am i makin this up.
first...... Mary was not a prophet . second .... her account with an angel differs greatly to that of Muhammad ......her account clearly shows that the angel was ministering according to and in harmony with the former prophets and prophesies if you compared that to Muhammad's accounts you would get a God that changed His mind
concerning the former.


according to you it would seem that you would say that Jesus due to your statement is either satan in flesh or a son of satan because gabriel came unto muhammed(saw) with his word. unless you are implying that he went rogue after the time of Jesus?
no!! far from it,what I am saying, is if you looked at the way God operated with all the
prophets before Muhammad and you look at the way Muhammad operated, if it is the same God, you will have here sir, A God who has gone against His very word

When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you

.
this alone will suffice that the comforter is in sense Muhammed(saw) because he didnt speak on his own he spoke which he heard.
OK but did he glory Jesus? no! he glorified allah ..unless you are saying Jesus is allah...remember Jesus said "he will glorify me because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you"


you misinterpreted the words it didnt mean that Muhammed will be with them forever meaning he wouldnt die. it meant that which he spoke of which he heard which was in clear evidence the Quran would last with humanity forever unadulterated. for how many ppl you know could have memorized the bible cover to cover in its original form to how many many are known to memorize the Quran in its original form. this is truly a blessing from our creator.....
wait wait wait! you still think the comforter that was promised to the disciples
by Jesus in about CE 33, for their own benefit came over 400 years after they all died ?

[brainchild]

a person who subscribes to the bible, would come to the conclusion that
"Gabriel" was on his own and not from God,now taking such into consideration, it would be sufficient to say,that "Gabriel" was actually Satan or one of his followers.

Mega...What gives u the right to make such a disrespectful insinuation and not even apologise? As i said before, you get caught up wit words and forget the message. All your so-called evidence just comes from a book, you have no proof....no one does. Learn brother, learn to respect your peers and their beliefs because all stand on the same ground as yours. Yes the bible makes sense and contains prophecies but so does the Quran, the Gita, the Torah and the list goes on. Religion has taken many roads throughout time and each one has its back stories. At the end of the day we must all sleep, rise, eat, sheit and perish, and most noble religions simply ask that we fill the time in between with peace (which comes through understanding and tolerance) and joy (through enjoyment of what we have been given, life, food, love, freedom). All the other technicalities and inconveniences are courtesy of mankind being lead astray.

The things you say aren't signs of a man seeking peace within himself and understanding of the master plan, you use the reasoning of a religious fanatic who simply regurgitates information without deep thought and internalisation. Step out of yourself for a minute and look at the things you say and ask yourself if they are right.

[turbohead]

mega at the end of the day i pray to the same God that Jesus prayed to and which Moses prayed to, which Abraham prayed to etc.... as far as God speaking directly to them as mentioned, Muhammed(saw) was a blessed prophet such that the rest of the prophets when the word was to be revealed as in the case of moses(pbuh) he had to go to the mountain an recieve His word, whereas God sent Gabriel to Muhammed wherever he was with the words of the Quran.
look at even the account of the birth of Jesus(pbuh) which you said was prophecised in the earlier books, but how could Muhammed(saw) the unlettered prophet who was not able to read or write known exactly how this account went down before him and was revealed unto him and recorded in the Quran as Surah-al-Maryam....

16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.

18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."

19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."

20. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).' "

22. So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).

23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!"

24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you;

25. "And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you."

26. "So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'"

27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing).

28. "O sister (i.e. the like) of Harun (Aaron) [not the brother of Musa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."

29. Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"

30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"

31. "And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and Zakat, as long as I live."

32. "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.

33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

34. Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).

35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is.

36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allah's Religion of Islamic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." [Tafsir At-Tabari]

37. Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus)], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah] from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).

38. How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error.

ch19v16-38...
for the entire translation view link below. anyone who does not no and is trying to learn about this miracle which would be more concise

http://noblequran.com/translation/surah19.html

[megadoc1]

mega at the end of the day i pray to the same God that Jesus prayed to and which Moses prayed to, which Abraham prayed to etc....
that's what you are deceived into believing, sad thing is that you have the capability to
see the difference for yourself!!!
the God of the bible, that Abraham, Moses and Jesus of the bible,prayed to, is a God
different to the god of the Qur'an . even the Jesus of the Qur'an is different from
the Jesus of the bible.
there is salvation in the Jesus of the bible .....
but there is no salvation in the Jesus of the Qur'an !

as far as God speaking directly to them as mentioned, Muhammed(saw) was a blessed prophet such that the rest of the prophets when the word was to be revealed as in the case of moses(pbuh) he had to go to the mountain an recieve His word, whereas God sent Gabriel to Muhammed wherever he was with the words of the Quran.
Muhammad cannot be greater than Jesus if Jesus himself claimed to have come down from heaven ... He did come down and He went back up ,
which is greater, not only that but He (Jesus) spoke directly from God with all authority
over the heaven and the earth which includes the angels
so tell me how can the person receiving a message from and angel be greater than the one who sent it?



look at even the account of the birth of Jesus(pbuh) which you said was prophecised in the earlier books, but how could Muhammed(saw) the unlettered prophet who was not able to read or write known exactly how this account went down before him and was revealed unto him and recorded in the Quran as Surah-al-Maryam....

simple!!! 500 hundred years after Jesus told his disciples "Go into the world preach the gospel" is sufficient time for Muhammad to be acquainted with such
a prophesy after all he was only 700 miles away from Jerusalem.
this kind of information was orally transmitted around that time
a custom in that culture (see history of koran how it was transmitted before it was written down) not like now where we have a book to read ourselves.
BTW... how you so sure that Muhammad said that? supposed that came from someone after Muhammad to "spice up" the book when they were putting it together along with other stuff from the bible( just speculating)

[turbohead]

mega at the end of the day i pray to the same God that Jesus prayed to and which Moses prayed to, which Abraham prayed to etc....
that's what you are deceived into believing, sad thing is that you have the capability to
see the difference for yourself!!!
the God of the bible, that Abraham, Moses and Jesus of the bible,prayed to, is a God
different to the god of the Qur'an . even the Jesus of the Qur'an is different from
the Jesus of the bible.
there is salvation in the Jesus of the bible .....
but there is no salvation in the Jesus of the Qur'an !

as far as God speaking directly to them as mentioned, Muhammed(saw) was a blessed prophet such that the rest of the prophets when the word was to be revealed as in the case of moses(pbuh) he had to go to the mountain an recieve His word, whereas God sent Gabriel to Muhammed wherever he was with the words of the Quran.
Muhammad cannot be greater than Jesus if Jesus himself claimed to have come down from heaven ... He did come down and He went back up ,
which is greater, not only that but He (Jesus) spoke directly from God with all authority
over the heaven and the earth which includes the angels
so tell me how can the person receiving a message from and angel be greater than the one who sent it?



look at even the account of the birth of Jesus(pbuh) which you said was prophecised in the earlier books, but how could Muhammed(saw) the unlettered prophet who was not able to read or write known exactly how this account went down before him and was revealed unto him and recorded in the Quran as Surah-al-Maryam....

simple!!! 500 hundred years after Jesus told his disciples "Go into the world preach the gospel" is sufficient time for Muhammad to be acquainted with such
a prophesy after all he was only 700 miles away from Jerusalem.
this kind of information was orally transmitted around that time
a custom in that culture (see history of koran how it was transmitted before it was written down) not like now where we have a book to read ourselves.
BTW... how you so sure that Muhammad said that? supposed that came from someone after Muhammad to "spice up" the book when they were putting it together along with other stuff from the bible( just speculating)

for the first part you have no knowledgeable proof to strengthen your assumptions. if you are truly a believer you would see that no man or prophet could bear the sin of another but we all are to answer for all our deeds as we spoke of before, there is no salvation through Jesus just through your apparent belief that there is one God and hold strong to that belief. if you are preaching monotheism then you will be contradicting yourself by believing in trinity as in that God is the father the son and the holy spirit which is 3 separate beings which is in reality one. mathematically, theoretically, sensilogically(made this word up just for stressing a point) 1+1+1 cannot be equal to 1. ajoining partners to God is one of the gravest sins man could commit. so far you havent shown me evidence of your theories or back it up with a single flaw that the Quran speaks ill of Jesus or belittles him.
for the second part Jesus wasnt sent with a new scripture of laws but was sent as the messiah(annointed one by God) to the isrealites to bring them back on track. he came to confirm the books before him and was sent with it as miracle by God. for every miracle he perform was true the grace of the Almighty. with the part where he was sent from the heavens, we(the soul) were all sent from the God from the heavens, our physical being fashioned out of clay, do you deny it? what has come from will return to its rightful place, the physical being to the earth, and the soul to answer its jugdement to reside in its respectful enternity. God said in the Quran in surah-nisa as follows-

156. And because of their (Jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse);

157. And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]:

158. But Allah raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.

159. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his ['Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew's or a Christian's] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he ['Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.

Muhammed(saw) was the beloved of God and in authenticating hadiths and also the Quran told of God inviting him to the Heavens, and was in a mere 2 bows lengths of The Creator, he was shown the different levels of heaven and shown the depths of hell and its dwellers. he was given the prayer known to us muslims as salaat. to prostrate to the worship of God. all this in the matter of a night for God is Great he says to someting Be and it is. im pretty sure you may have heard the stories of this night ascension befor if not ask about it, i am not of vast knowledge to explain it to you.

for the third part i already discussed this are you hard headed? it wasnt a light matter the collection of the Quran, it was written on prachments by 23-25 of the closest companions of the Prophet of which whome all we memorizers of the Quran after the Holy Prophet(saw),

' in reality aspect i am saying that if duane wanted to relay the codes and encryptions for trinituner.com he would do so to the persons whom he values it with firstly, the few ppl who he knows without the shadow of a doubt wouldnt stab him in the back like a judas. he wouldnt go and give ajeet blindly first. then lets say duane god forbids dies anytime soon after that and he stopped giving the codes or revelation stops soon after he gets the last code from his supplier. the codes is now there, but they want to compile it into one and in respective order, duane would have, before he died issued the way to the trusted few of how to do so, so no they called on everyone whomsoever heard a code and wrote in on the prachment or wood or leaf as the case maybe, and the trusted few as i stated above were the memorizers of the codes so they no it fully well even if one slipped up the others would pull up on his socks and correct him would now see to it that ppl who wrote the codes had to bear to witnesses to the account and then if was correct code deemed as truth.'

all names mentioned in the above story are fictitious even though they may bear resemblance to those in reality. plz do no take offence...
copyright turbohead....

[trdboy]

but you say jesus(pbuh) is the only man to be without sin and thats it he was a mere man. he was no son of God by saying that is a blaspheme. God has no partners and no allegiance am i correct. to correct you the only man to walk sinless was prophet muhammad(saw). God in His inifinite mercy can cast away your sin as He is oft Forgiven Most Merciful. what do you accept Jesus(pbuh ) as? a messenger who was of no father but of a miracle of God's Omnipotent power, or as the son of God. which makes more sense, because be that the case adam an eve seems like the better candidate for that role seeing they both had neither parents. Jesus(pbuh) in his short term of prophethood never accepted himself as the Lord for when the took him to see Ponchus Pilot and was asked of these transgressions of saying he was son of God he said to them that they said it not me i am no part of it. you believe in turn the other cheek then why when he went into the temple and saw wat the priest were doing did he arm himself with sticks and chase them out, isnt that a violent way.

mi pal you no of half the truth to truly see the clear signs you need to look further than the bible for it was tainted by the same men who sought to kill jesus(pbup), for they killed him not but it was made to appear so as he was raised up to the heavens. why did they remove the 4 books of st barnabus? because his scriptures were interfering with that which they wanted to potrait. as a muslim we believe in the books before us but it doesnt appear in its original form.

ill give you a project,
prove that at any point in the bible that jesus(pbuh) said i am God worship me without parables for if he is God it should be clearly stated as Allah stated in the Quran the best of books amongst us.

is long time now i wanted to ask a muslim this, i received an email about some men in the middle east (muslims) HOW THE HELL COULD BIG HARD BACK MEN MARRY SOME LIL 3 YEAR OLD GIRLS AND SAY DAZ THEIR WIFE, HOW CAN UR GREAT BOOK GIVE U THE RIGHT TO KILL OTHER PPL IF THEY DOH BELIEVE IN YOUR PRIMITIVE WAY OF LIFE???????

[megadoc1]

for the first part you have no knowledgeable proof to strengthen your assumptions. if you are truly a believer you would see that no man or prophet could bear the sin of another but we all are to answer for all our deeds as we spoke of before,
this is not the message that the bible brings
so you need to be clear on what you term "truly a believer"
truly a believer in whom ? Christ or Allah?



there is no salvation through Jesus
just through your apparent belief that there is one God and hold strong to that belief.
the message that the bible brings, is salvation trough Jesus Christ
that's why I tell you before, there is a difference between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Qur'an

if you are preaching monotheism then you will be contradicting yourself by believing in trinity as in that God is the father the son and the holy spirit which is 3 separate beings which is in reality one. mathematically, theoretically, sensilogically(made this word up just for stressing a point) 1+1+1 cannot be equal to 1. ajoining partners to God is one of the gravest sins man could commit.
hold up hold up why are you going all over the place man?
we are not talking about the trinity!!!!!!!!!!
we are talking about the type of God presented in the Bible
and how He is totaly different from the one presented in the Qur'an
something so simple like that you can't see, so why should I even bother to discus the trinity to you?




so far you havent shown me evidence of your theories or back it up with a single flaw that the Quran speaks ill of Jesus or belittles him.
yes I did but you totally ignored them


for the second part Jesus wasnt sent with a new scripture of laws
no one claimed this!! are you crazy?


but was sent as the messiah(annointed one by God) to the isrealites to bring them back on track. would you dare say how he intended to do it?




for the third part i already discussed this are you hard headed? it wasnt a light matter the collection of the Quran, it was written on prachments by 23-25 of the closest companions of the Prophet of which whome all we memorizers of the Quran after the Holy Prophet(saw),
human beings right? you don't think anyone of them heard about Jesus and His virgin birth before Muhammad spoke to them or even before Muhammad's time ..and after his death?

' in reality aspect i am saying that if duane wanted to relay the codes and encryptions for trinituner.com he would do so to the persons whom he values it with firstly, the few ppl who he knows without the shadow of a doubt wouldnt stab him in the back like a judas. he wouldnt go and give ajeet blindly first. then lets say duane god forbids dies anytime soon after that and he stopped giving the codes or revelation stops soon after he gets the last code from his supplier. the codes is now there, but they want to compile it into one and in respective order, duane would have, before he died issued the way to the trusted few of how to do so, so no they called on everyone whomsoever heard a code and wrote in on the prachment or wood or leaf as the case maybe, and the trusted few as i stated above were the memorizers of the codes so they no it fully well even if one slipped up the others would pull up on his socks and correct him would now see to it that ppl who wrote the codes had to bear to witnesses to the account and then if was correct code deemed as truth.'
now what will happen if hook, being one of the code holders becomes a super meelleoniere and buy out most of the "trusted few "
and the hard ones like close family and friends to Duane, he had them eradicated like the first four caliphs and then decided to write in his own Code
and add lil bits he got from d spike, blufetete and mamoo etc. etc. etc.
and wherever he could put his hands on, even codes from trinturbo
then announced that all formerly compiled codes are corrupted and that his version is the only true version and ordered all other versions to be destroyed
you would get something similar to what you are in possession of now

all names mentioned in the above story are fictitious even though they may bear resemblance to those in reality. plz do no take offence...
copyright turbohead....co sign megadoc1

aye.............. I think i am done for now the last part I just did it for kix
forgive meh

[trdboy]

^^^^^^anyway that was me being appaullled by a tradition that you ppl call holy.............

MEGA kudos to you u bro, u know the word inside out, but these guys will only know the truth by having a real experience with Christ, and thats why we have our comforter ( the holy spirit) that gives life to our faith that this is the truth......Jesus Christ is the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but through the son.....

i love Christ and i know he is real because of my relationship with him, im never alone because the holy spirit is always with me the moment i received salvation, the God that i serve loves me just as much as the ppl who blasphemes against him, the God that the Quran portray is a God who promotes hate against ppl who dont believe and here we are now, terrorists, wars, violence all in the name of allah!!!!

[mamoo_pagal]

^^^^^^anyway that was me being appaullled by a tradition that you ppl call holy.............

MEGA kudos to you u bro, u know the word inside out, but these guys will only know the truth by having a real experience with Christ, and thats why we have our comforter ( the holy spirit) that gives life to our faith that this is the truth......Jesus Christ is the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but through the son.....

i love Christ and i know he is real because of my relationship with him, im never alone because the holy spirit is always with me the moment i received salvation, the God that i serve loves me just as much as the ppl who blasphemes against him, the God that the Quran portray is a God who promotes hate against ppl who dont believe and here we are now, terrorists, wars, violence all in the name of allah!!!!

so wait nah the crusades, holocust ect, wasn't that all in the name of Christ or christianity?? But i guess the argument will be used that those men currupted it, the "teachings" of Christ never said that.

I wonder why that logic dosen't apply to other religions.

If we used the numbers off ppl who were opressed by religion as an indication of the falsness of that religion I wonder which will win by a landslide.
Scientology ftw!!! dem aint kill nobody I think...

Before you chastise others for what you see today, who knows some of what u believe maybe propaganda, a deeper analysis is required on your own before you openly condemn others. Just a though

[AllTrac]

[brainchild]

now what will happen if hook, being one of the code holders becomes a super meelleoniere and buy out most of the "trusted few "
and the hard ones like close family and friends to Duane, he had them eradicated like the first four caliphs and then decided to write in his own Code
and add lil bits he got from d spike, blufetete and mamoo etc. etc. etc.
and wherever he could put his hands on, even codes from trinturbo
then announced that all formerly compiled codes are corrupted and that his version is the only true version and ordered all other versions to be destroyed
you would get something similar to what you are in possession of now

Thats how the King James Version came to be my friend. TRD have u ever seen a muslim in trini married to a 3yr old? Just as in Christianity there are many differents sects in Islam so u can't judge them as a group. Because we live in a country where they came and slaughtered the ppl they found and forced them into Christianity then created BS stories of encounters they had with saints that converted them. Do some research into how Sangre Grande got its name.

What you guys should be taking out of all this is that Christ man or demi-god had the same message in both the Bible and Quran. God is the creator of all that is and does not deserve to be given a backseat because he sent a messenger, instead you chose to focus on whether the messenger was a man or god...does this really matter? On the judgement day you all await will u be judged on what u believed him to be or on your deeds and thoughts? Did Christ seek to convert or to enlighten? If the main focus of Christ msg was his father/creator why do you focus on Christ only? You say salvation is only thru Jesus...who decides in the end? Isn't it God? If Jesus came to die for the sins of man, hasn't he already completed that job? Because i would think that would apply to ppl that existed at that time. So modern man should focus on God and wait for their sins to be forgiven by Him.

I highly doubt you can answer these questions without reverting to some nonsense that you have no understanding of because at the end of the day you subscribe to a book that was translated from a dead language...we must remember that English is merely a translation not the original text.

[megadoc1]

now what will happen if hook, being one of the code holders becomes a super meelleoniere and buy out most of the "trusted few "
and the hard ones like close family and friends to Duane, he had them eradicated like the first four caliphs and then decided to write in his own Code
and add lil bits he got from d spike, blufetete and mamoo etc. etc. etc.
and wherever he could put his hands on, even codes from trinturbo
then announced that all formerly compiled codes are corrupted and that his version is the only true version and ordered all other versions to be destroyed
you would get something similar to what you are in possession of now

Thats how the King James Version came to be my friend.
don't be ridiculous my friend,you are purely speaking from assumptions
the language that the king james version was translated out of, is still available today!!!
the bible I currently use is a holman csb and it in mordern english
and mirrors the kjv,, plus I have the Hebrew software version and a Greek

now if the kjv came about that way, please tell me why the other tranlations
are't saying something else?







What you guys should be taking out of all this is that Christ man or demi-god had the same message in both the Bible and Quran.
what we are pointing out is that although they use the same names they don't share the same characteristics nor the same message
please be informed about this before making such statements


God is the creator of all that is and does not deserve to be given a backseat because he sent a messenger, instead you chose to focus on whether the messenger was a man or god...does this really matter?
yes..... because if God came Himself and said or do one thing ,what should we do with a "messanger"
who came after carrying another message totally disregarding the one God brought?




On the judgement day you all await will u be judged on what u believed him to be or on your deeds and thoughts?
in christ we are allready judged righteous, by our faith in Him


Did Christ seek to convert or to enlighten?
He came to redeem man from his fallen state as promised in the earlier scriptures


If the main focus of Christ msg was his father/creator why do you focus on Christ only?
the whole message was focus on Christ He is the giver of life

You say salvation is only thru Jesus...who decides in the end?
you decides, in the end whether you want salvation in christ or not


Isn't it God? no its you now!!! God decided a looooong time ago and sent Jesus its your turn now to choose

If Jesus came to die for the sins of man, hasn't he already completed that job?
exactly thats why you are the one decides if you will accept him paying the price for you
or if you gonna pay for it yourself


Because i would think that would apply to ppl that existed at that time. yes it did

So modern man should focus on God and wait for their sins to be forgiven by Him.
then Jesus died in vain? if thats what you feel by all means go ahead,,
man must pay for his sins against God but the only way sins are forgiven is through faith in Jesus Christ ,it is your choice if you want to pay for them yourself or receive forgiveness for it

I highly doubt you can answer these questions without reverting to some nonsense that you have no understanding of
because at the end of the day you subscribe to a book that was translated from a dead language...we must remember that English is merely a translation not the original text. did I tell you that the old text is still around for reference?