The LGBTQ/Pride Debate Take 2

[ruffneck_12]

Sure

[paid_influencer]

[bluefete]

Well, well, well. What a shock to see the full thread back. The truth must win out eventually.

Anyways, for those who beating up and totally ignored the major argument of this thread, let me remind you, once again: It used to be called child-abuse. Not anymore.

NHS England 'draws up plans to allow children as young as seven to get transgender treatment' after shut down Tavistock centre allowed kids aged three to start transitioning
By ELEANOR DYE
PUBLISHED: 00:49 BST, 5 August 2023

NHS England has drawn up plans to allow children as young as seven to receive transgender treatment, according to reports.

Regional centres in existing children's hospitals are replacing the shut down Tavistock centre, which allowed children to receive treatment from the age of three.

The clinic, which had no minimum age for a referral, was closed last year after a review from Dr Hilary Cass branded it as 'not safe'.

However, experts have warned that the discussion of gender with children could still be the 'first step' towards a full medical transition.



The NHS's controversial Tavistock clinic shut its doors last year after a damning report found it was 'not safe' for children.

The clinic was accused of rushing children onto puberty blocking drugs by former patients who feel they weren't challenged enough. It treated at least 9,000 children for gender dysphoria since it opened in 1989.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oning.html

[bluefete]

And for those who have a problem with the DM, this is from the Telegraph - much more detailed (extracts):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... treatment/

Children as young as seven to get NHS trans treatment
Clinics will also consider the impact of other medical and mental health issues
By Hayley Dixon, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT 4 August 2023 • 9:00pm

The definition, which comes from the World Health Organisation, is “completely the wrong way of looking at it”, said Dr Bell.
He added: “We are corrupting a child’s capacity to have an imagination and imposing a gender stereotype on them.”

‘Devil is in the detail’
The new service plan also states that a child can only be sent for gender treatment by specialist NHS mental health or paediatric services.

It comes after revelations by this newspaper that Susie Green, then chairman of controversial charity Mermaids, had been able to refer children even when their GP repeatedly refused. Teachers and social workers had also previously been able to refer children to the Tavistock.

The Government is set to release transgender guidance for schools that will make it harder for children to socially transition in the classroom.

NHS England said that the change will ensure children are receiving help while on the waiting list, which currently stands at three years.

In recent days, NHS England has also released further details on its ban on prescribing puberty blockers outside of clinic trials, saying it has “concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones to make the treatment routinely available at this time”.

Only children who have experienced early-onset gender dysphoria starting at a young age will be eligible for the trials. (WHAT THE HELL?)

[bluefete]

And this is the contract the British NHS had with the Tavistock and other Institutes to abuse children:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/u ... scents.pdf

[bluefete]

And finally, the story behind the fall of the Tavistock Institute:

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/03/09 ... r-children

Extract:

CHAKRABARTI: Well, in your book, you talk about how in this report by Dr. David Taylor, again, this is the 2005 review. That the pressure, he talks about the pressure to provide puberty blockers became much more intense around that time. Where was the pressure coming from?

BARNES: It was coming from all quarters, really. It was coming from trans support groups. Absolutely. But I think there's a danger that especially here in the U.K., that it's felt that all the pressure was coming from them alone, and that isn't the case. It was also coming from clinicians working with gender diverse young people in other countries, particularly in the Netherlands at that time. Some conditions in the United States as well.

And it was also, I'm told, coming from endocrinologists who obviously work with hormones in the body. And the pressure was saying, look, it appears at this moment in time the Dutch are doing this thing where they're using puberty blockers in very highly screened young people who have this distress around the gender. And it appears that it could be a good intervention. So why aren't you doing it? That was the message, really.

[adnj]

And finally, the story behind the fall of the Tavistock Institute:

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/03/09 ... r-children

Extract:

CHAKRABARTI: Well, in your book, you talk about how in this report by Dr. David Taylor, again, this is the 2005 review. That the pressure, he talks about the pressure to provide puberty blockers became much more intense around that time. Where was the pressure coming from?

BARNES: It was coming from all quarters, really. It was coming from trans support groups. Absolutely. But I think there's a danger that especially here in the U.K., that it's felt that all the pressure was coming from them alone, and that isn't the case. It was also coming from clinicians working with gender diverse young people in other countries, particularly in the Netherlands at that time. Some conditions in the United States as well.

And it was also, I'm told, coming from endocrinologists who obviously work with hormones in the body. And the pressure was saying, look, it appears at this moment in time the Dutch are doing this thing where they're using puberty blockers in very highly screened young people who have this distress around the gender. And it appears that it could be a good intervention. So why aren't you doing it? That was the message, really.

And now, what actually happened:

NHS to close Tavistock child gender identity clinic

The Tavistock clinic, named the Gender and Identity Development Service (GIDS), was launched in 1989 to help people aged 17 and under struggling with their gender identity.

But in 2020, questions about the service were raised after it was rated "inadequate" by inspectors, following concerns raised by whistleblowers and reported by BBC Newsnight.

The Cass review was commissioned in September 2020 amid the rise in demand, long waiting times for assessments and "significant external scrutiny" around GIDS' approach and capacity, the NHS said.

In an interim report earlier this year, Dr Cass said:

The service was struggling to deal with spiralling waiting lists
It was not keeping "routine and consistent" data on its patients
Health staff felt under pressure to adopt an "unquestioning affirmative approach"
Once patients are identified as having gender-related distress, other healthcare issues they had, such as being neurodivergent, "can sometimes be overlooked"
She then suggested introducing local hubs, writing that the current provider model "is not a safe or viable long-term option".

The number of people seeking the clinic's help is 20 times higher than it was a decade ago, jumping from 250 to 5,000 referrals in 2021, according to the service's statistics.

This means the average person waits two years before they are seen by a specialist.

The mother of a former Tavistock patient, who is not being named by the BBC, said there are "clear difficulties" in having one clinic to treat trans and gender-questioning people across the UK.

While her son "received excellent service from Tavistock," she said having one clinic to serve England and Wales has been failing children and their families.

She said: "It was a two-hour journey to the clinic each way, and that was easy for us. People are travelling from all over the UK for appointments, which is incredibly costly and time consuming.

"Having regional and local services that are integrated and accessible has got to be a better thing."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62335665

[bluefete]

adnj: True to form. LOL. Nothing about what the Tavistock was doing to the children but everything about a long waiting list.

What about (as mentioned) - "not keeping routine and consistent data on its patients"? I guess they were overwhelmed with the huge, increased volume of "child patients", so they did not always write down what puberty blockers were prescribed.

And the staff "taking an unquestioning affirmative approach" - simply meaning that once the child showed up, they were automatically treated as wanting to be trans.

I am damn glad that it was closed down.

[adnj]

adnj: True to form. LOL. Nothing about what the Tavistock was doing to the children but everything about a long waiting list.

What about (as mentioned) - "not keeping routine and consistent data on its patients"? I guess they were overwhelmed with the huge, increased volume of "child patients", so they did not always write down what puberty blockers were prescribed.

And the staff "taking an unquestioning affirmative approach" - simply meaning that once the child showed up, they were automatically treated as wanting to be trans.

I am damn glad that it was closed down.

It didn't. When you read an article, it helps if you read the entire article. If I don't reiterate your opinion, it is simply because it is based on an incomplete or uninformed mastery of the factual content. Tavistock is being replaced - by two hubs that will provide essentially similar services to the people of England with a larger, perhaps more capable staff.

The decision came in response to the interim Cass Review, which gave the bold suggestion that trans youth should have more than one service in the entire country.

Those centers will continue to be managed by the same administration as before: NHS England. If that makes you unhappy, well...

Now, this is what is replacing Tavistock:

NHS Tavistock youth gender clinic to be replaced under sweeping trans healthcare reforms

Jul 28 2022

NHS England is to close its sole dedicated youth gender clinic and open new regional centres in a move to a “holistic and localised approach” to trans youth healthcare.

The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust will shut down its Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) by next spring, NHS England said Thursday (28 July).

It comes after a recommendation by Dr Hilary Cass that gender-affirming care be provided by regional centres “led by experienced providers of tertiary paediatric care to ensure a focus on child health and development, with strong links to mental health services”.

Dr Cass, who is conducting a review of gender-affirming care commissioned by NHS England, noted that the current model is unable to keep up with growing demand, resulting in spiralling wait times.

NHS England said that “given the urgent requirement to stabilise current service provision” it will establish two “Early Adopter services” run by specialist children’s hospitals.

Young trans people who are currently under GIDS service or on the waiting list will be moved to regional centres as the NHS embraces a “holistic and localised approach”.

For now, there will be no immediate change to the care offered by the clinic.

The Early Adopter services will be opened by 2023 with the aim of “achieving a smooth and seamless transfer for all patients, minimising any disruption”, the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust said in a statement.

An Early Adopter service in London will be led jointly by Great Ormond Street Hospital and Evelina London Children’s Hospital, with South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust providing specialist [children and young people] mental health support.

Alder Hey Children’s NHS Foundation Trust and the Royal Manchester Children’s Hospital will provide the service for trans youth in the north-west of England.

As part of the reforms, NHS England said it will conduct further research into puberty blockers, drugs that act as a pause button on puberty. The treatment, a raft of research has shown, can be “life-saving” for trans youth.

One study found that gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth was associated with 60 per cent lower odds of depression and 73 per cent lower odds of suicide.

But at Cass’ suggestion, NHS England will work together with the National Institute for Health and Care Research to better research puberty blockers and get a new process for proscribing puberty blockers up and running once the report is finished.

Those receiving hormonal therapies will have to sign up to participate in the research project on the condition of accessing the treatment, however.

The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust said it expects the reforms will cut down waiting lists once the doors to the local hubs have opened.

The trust said in a statement: “The Trust supports the need to establish a more sustainable model for the care of this group of patients given the marked growth in referrals. The expertise that resides within the current GIDS service will be critical to the successful formation of these early adopter services and providing continuity in patient care.

“We will work closely with partners and commissioners to ensure a smooth transition to the new model of delivery. Over the last couple of years, our staff in GIDS have worked tirelessly and under intense scrutiny in a difficult climate.

“We are proud of them and thankful for their unrelenting patient focus and extraordinary efforts.”

The decision came in response to the interim Cass Review, which gave the bold suggestion that trans youth should have more than one service in the entire country.

Dr Hilary Cass OBE, a former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, wrote in a letter to NHS national director John Stewart stressing the “need to move from a single national provider to a regional model”.

She said: “A comprehensive patient and family-centred service and package of care is needed to ensure children and young people who are questioning their gender identity or experiencing gender dysphoria get on the right pathway for them as an individual.”

With waiting lists at the Tavistock stretching several years, Cass called on the NHS to offer help to trans youth “at the earliest feasible point in their journey”. She suggested healthcare providers band together during “intake meetings” to help fastrack care for those deemed “at risk”.

A separate report by the Care Quality Commission in 2020 found there were more than 4,600 young people on the GIDS waiting list, with some waiting more than two years for their first appointment. Inspectors rated Tavistock as “inadequate” as a result.

While anti-trans campaigners have painted puberty-blockers as readily available, not a single trans person under 17 had been given an initial assessment with an endocrinologist, who assess and approves hormone therapies, between December 2020 and September 2021, an investigation by i found.

Closure of Tavistock gender identity clinic delayed

11 May

The closure of the only NHS gender clinic for children in England and Wales has been delayed to March 2024, about a year later than first planned.

The Gender Identity Development Service (Gids), based at London's Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, will be replaced by two regional hubs.

A southern hub will open in autumn, with the northern hub following next April.

A review said a new model was needed, after Gids was heavily criticised.

No new first patient appointments for those on the waiting list to be seen will be offered until the southern hub opens, but the Tavistock will continue providing care for the roughly 1,000 children it is currently treating.

There is currently thought to be a waiting list of several thousand for children wanting to use the service. An online support service will launch in June to provide support to those waiting to be seen.

The new hubs are being formed with partnerships managed by London's Great Ormond Street Hospital and Alder Hey Children's Hospital, in Liverpool.

Robbie de Santos of LGBTQ+ charity Stonewall said it was "pleased with the continuity of care" for existing patients "ensuring their needs are met until new services are ready" and also welcomed the regional hubs.

"However, we remain concerned about waiting times and urge NHS England to continue to communicate plans and provide further support for those on the waiting list," he said.

Transgender Trend, a UK campaign group that questions the increase in diagnoses of transgender children, said it was also concerned about the number of children on the waiting list as they may have co-existing mental health needs.

"We would like to see some temporary provision put in for children on the wait list to see a mental health professional," it said.

"CAMHS [Child and Adult Mental Health Services] therapists are already adequately trained to deal with such co-existing issues affecting children with gender-related distress."

Service 'unsustainable'
The Tavistock clinic was rated as "inadequate" by inspectors who visited in late 2020 after the BBC's Newsnight programme reported whistleblowers' concerns.

The subsequent review called for more "holistic" care, looking at patients' overall needs.

There has been a large increase in referrals to the clinic in recent years and it has struggled to meet demand.

Many of those referred were recorded as female at birth but developed gender distress in their early teens.

In July last year, NHS England announced Gids would close in spring 2023, following the interim report by Dr Hilary Cass which called the current single service "unsustainable". NHS England said the timetable had since been revised because of the complexity involved.

More than 5,000 patients were referred to Gids in 2021-2022.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65564032

[bluefete]

"Closure of Tavistock gender identity clinic delayed"

As a matter of fact, somewhere in this thread, I did point out that its closure was delayed (along similar lines as you gave).

So after all is said and done, the abuse of the little children continues.

[bluefete]

Now, let us go back to the big people and the agenda:

You remember - men with preeneses wanting to be "women" so they can beat pure females in competition because they are unable to beat people of their own natural gender.

I agree with those who stated that there should be a separate category for trans in sports. Let them compete with each other.

If you want to be inclusive, have mixed events for males, females and trans together. Oh, but, no. That would not be fair to the trans because then they would get their as--es cut by real men. Poor things.

EXCLUSIVE: Swimmer Riley Gaines reveals her trans competitor Lia Thomas is so well-endowed that she had to 'refrain from looking' at her crotch in the locker room of fateful Atlanta race meet
PUBLISHED: 21:10 BST, 4 August 2023

Extract:

"Gaines has become one of America's staunchest voices against allowing biological males to compete against women, saying their greater strength and stamina renders races unfair and even pointless.

It's part of a bigger debate about whether trans women should be allowed to join women's sports teams, use women's bathrooms, or even spend prison sentences in women's lockups.

Gaines and other critics say it's neither safe nor fair, and serves to 'erase' women.

'I think even using the term trans woman is giving Thomas some of our language as women,' she says in the podcast.

'I think trans woman is a subset of male. I do not believe trans women are women.

Trans rights activists say trans women are real women, that they need to be included in sports, and that they don't have an advantage over biological women because they suffer so much discrimination.'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -meet.html

[adnj]

"Closure of Tavistock gender identity clinic delayed"
As a matter of fact, somewhere in this thread, I did point out that its closure was delayed (along similar lines as you gave).
So after all is said and done, the abuse of the little children continues.

And you have done nothing to stop it.

[bluefete]

Martina Navratilova
@Martina
Nobody is banning trans people from competing- they just need to compete in the biological category rather than a self ID category. Either one day have three categories or two categories- one open to all and one for biological women only. But they are allowed to compete now

[DMan7]

NO! Let the Biological men keep competing with the women, we can make alot of money betting on this sport.

[Ben_spanna]

No CHILD should be allowed to undergo any Gender changing surgery or start taking any supplements, this only serves the mentally ill Parent or Guardian.
This is CHILD ABUSE and must stop... these "trans" sickos must NOT get their way, children need to be children, let them dream, let them innocently play, let them grow up, and when they are legally an adult, if they still think they were born the wrong gender then allow them to fcuk up their lives by themselves.

[redmanjp]

A lot of the kids/teens being referred for trans surgery either have some type of mental issue or are actually gay- like 80% may be gay. imagine u are literally converting a gay person's body from one sex to another - the modern day 'conversion therapy'.

[Dohplaydat]

A lot of the kids/teens being referred for trans surgery either have some type of mental issue or are actually gay- like 80% may be gay. imagine u are literally converting a gay person's body from one sex to another - the modern day 'conversion therapy'.

I agree, I don't doubt there might be some legit cases, but the mental health, body acceptance and gender dysphoria must be addressed properly and only in exceptional cases can transition begin before puberty. After 18, do whatever the firetruck you like.

But you let them face the reality that being trans doesn't make you special or deserving of more rights.

Definitely no trans women allowed in sports? Think that's unfair?? Who cares, life ain't fair, lots of people born with life impacting illness and disabilities, your 'born in the wrong body' is just another, we don't need to bend over backwards for your issues.

[redmanjp]

[adnj]

No CHILD should be allowed to undergo any Gender changing surgery or start taking any supplements, this only serves the mentally ill Parent or Guardian.

A lot of the kids/teens being referred for trans surgery either have some type of mental issue or are actually gay- like 80% may be gay.

I agree, I don't doubt there might be some legit cases, but the mental health, body acceptance and gender dysphoria must be addressed properly and only in exceptional cases can transition begin before puberty. After 18, do whatever the firetruck you like.

Since this thread continues to have opinions posted by the uninformed who are all too eager to express their own ignorance, I am going to post this here. Sadly, all of this information is readily available — if one has an interest in actually understanding what they are talking about.

What medical treatments do transgender youth get?

Transgender medical treatment for children and teens is increasingly under attack in many states, labeled child abuse and subject to criminalizing bans. But it has been available in the United States for more than a decade and is endorsed by major medical associations.

Many clinics use treatment plans pioneered in Amsterdam 30 years ago, according to a recent review in the British Psych Bulletin. Since 2005, the number of youth referred to gender clinics has increased as much as tenfold in the U.S., U.K, Canada and Finland, the review said.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a professional and educational organization, and the Endocrine Society, which represents specialists who treat hormone conditions, both have guidelines for such treatment. Here’s a look at what’s typically involved.

Puberty blockers

Children who persistently question the sex they were designated at birth are often referred to specialty clinics providing gender-confirming care. Such care typically begins with a psychological evaluation to determine whether the children have “gender dysphoria,” or distress caused when gender identity doesn’t match a person’s assigned sex.

Children who meet clinical guidelines are first offered medication that temporarily blocks puberty. This treatment is designed for youngsters diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have been counseled with their families and are mature enough to understand what the regimen entails. ...

Hormones
...
Guidelines recommend starting these when kids are mature enough to make informed medical decisions. That is typically around age 16, and parents’ consent is typically required, said Dr. Gina Sequiera, co-director of Seattle Children’s Hospital’s Gender Clinic. ...

Surgery

Gender-altering surgery in teens is less common than hormone treatment, but many centers hesitate to give exact numbers.

Guidelines say such surgery generally should be reserved for those aged 18 and older. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health says breast removal surgery is OK for those under 18 who have been on testosterone for at least a year. The Endocrine Society says there isn’t enough evidence to recommend a specific age limit for that operation.

Outcomes

Studies have found some children and teens resort to self-mutilation to try to change their anatomy. And research has shown that transgender youth and adults are prone to stress, depression and suicidal behavior when forced to live as the sex they were assigned at birth.

Opponents of youth transgender medical treatment say there’s no solid proof of purported benefits and cite widely discredited research claiming that most untreated kids outgrow their transgender identities by their teen years or later. One study often mentioned by opponents included many kids who were mistakenly identified as having gender dysphoria and lacked outcome data for many others.

Doctors say accurately diagnosed kids whose transgender identity persists into puberty typically don’t outgrow it. And guidelines say treatment shouldn’t start before puberty begins.

Many studies show the treatment can improve kids’ well-being, including reducing depression and suicidal behavior. The most robust kind of study — a trial in which some distressed kids would be given treatment and others not — cannot be done ethically. Longer term studies on treatment outcomes are underway.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/wha ... -youth-get

[bluefete]

You do realize that you have torpedoed your own argument, right?

The issue is not how long transgender treatments have existed, it is about greater awareness NOW and the fact that people are awaking to the fact that this is some serious child abuse being fostered on children.

What gets me with this whole issue is that children under 18 years cannot enter into any LEGAL contract BUT they can make life altering decisions with the full support of money hungry " trans professionals and supporters.

adnj
Since this thread continues to have opinions posted by the uninformed who are all too eager to express their own ignorance, I am going to post this here. Sadly, all of this information is readily available — if one has an interest in actually understanding what they are talking about.

What medical treatments do transgender youth get?

Transgender medical treatment for children and teens is increasingly under attack in many states, labeled child abuse and subject to criminalizing bans. But it has been available in the United States for more than a decade and is endorsed by major medical associations. (Major medical associations all making money from trans)

Many clinics use treatment plans pioneered in Amsterdam 30 years ago, according to a recent review in the British Psych Bulletin. Since 2005, the number of youth referred to gender clinics has increased as much as tenfold in the U.S., U.K, Canada and Finland, the review said.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a professional and educational organization, and the Endocrine Society, which represents specialists who treat hormone conditions, both have guidelines for such treatment. Here’s a look at what’s typically involved.

Puberty blockers

Children who persistently question the sex they were designated at birth are often referred to specialty clinics providing gender-confirming care. Such care typically begins with a psychological evaluation to determine whether the children have “gender dysphoria,” or distress caused when gender identity doesn’t match a person’s assigned sex. (It would be interesting to know what % of children who are referred to clinics are told they have gender dysphoria. But the "STUDIES" would never tell you.)

Children who meet clinical guidelines are first offered medication that temporarily blocks puberty (Yup. Definitely fits the profile and business model. Big Pharma gotta Pharm even if you must drug up the little children.). This treatment is designed for youngsters diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have been counseled with their families and are mature enough to understand what the regimen entails. ... (So a child who the medical misfits consider to be mature enough, at 7 years old, can be given puberty blockers. Nice)


Hormones
...
Guidelines recommend starting these when kids are mature enough to make informed medical decisions. That is typically around age 16, and parents’ consent is typically required, said Dr. Gina Sequiera, co-director of Seattle Children’s Hospital’s Gender Clinic. ... (Guidelines? Oh, please. Wait a minute. A child under the age of 18 years CANNOT enter into any LEGAL CONTRACT or even vote! BUT, a child under 18 can be considered mature enough to make life changing medical decisions.)

Surgery

Gender-altering surgery in teens is less common than hormone treatment, but many centers hesitate to give exact numbers. (They do not want to give exact numbers because it will make a lie out of the first half of the sentence.)

Guidelines say such surgery generally should be reserved for those aged 18 and older. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health says breast removal surgery is OK for those under 18 who have been on testosterone for at least a year. The Endocrine Society says there isn’t enough evidence to recommend a specific age limit for that operation. (Once there is money to be made, who the hell cares about guidelines? Under 18 and you can get breast removal surgery)

Outcomes

Studies have found some children and teens resort to self-mutilation to try to change their anatomy. (Any child who practices self-mutilation to change their anatomy seriously needs to be in a St. Ann's style house. SERIOUSLY!)And research has shown that transgender youth and adults are prone to stress, depression and suicidal behavior when forced to live as the sex they were assigned at birth.

Opponents of youth transgender medical treatment say there’s no solid proof of purported benefits and cite widely discredited research claiming that most untreated kids outgrow their transgender identities by their teen years or later. One study often mentioned by opponents included many kids who were mistakenly identified as having gender dysphoria and lacked outcome data for many others.

Doctors say accurately diagnosed kids whose transgender identity persists into puberty typically don’t outgrow it. And guidelines say treatment shouldn’t start before puberty begins.

Many studies show the treatment can improve kids’ well-being, including reducing depression and suicidal behavior. The most robust kind of study — a trial in which some distressed kids would be given treatment and others not — cannot be done ethically. Longer term studies on treatment outcomes are underway.

PBS does not give you a link to these "Many STUDIES".

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/wha ... -youth-get[/quote]

[adnj]

PBS does not give you a link to these "Many STUDIES".

I repeat:
Sadly, all of this information is readily available — if one has an interest in actually understanding what they are talking about.


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ps ... ng+therapy

[ruffneck_12]

the same information which was manipulated and hidden in the past to push certain agendas?
(Speaking in general here)


Don't you find it weird the most militant countries outlaw this propaganda?

Who would you bet on to win a fight between a high testosterone male, vs a low testosterone male.

This is how to win a war without firing a single bullet btw, go ahead and eat the chain up

[bluefete]

PBS does not give you a link to these "Many STUDIES".

I repeat:
Sadly, all of this information is readily available — if one has an interest in actually understanding what they are talking about.


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ps ... ng+therapy

One thing I have leaned from academia in reading published journals is to always ask the question:

Who funded these studies? The answers almost always (the majority of times) lead back to sponsors who have vested interests in the outcomes.

[bluefete]

the same information which was manipulated and hidden in the past to push certain agendas?
(Speaking in general here)


Don't you find it weird the most militant countries outlaw this propaganda?

Who would you bet on to win a fight between a high testosterone male, vs a low testosterone male.

This is how to win a war without firing a single bullet btw, go ahead and eat the chain up

Excellent point.

[adnj]

PBS does not give you a link to these "Many STUDIES".

I repeat:
Sadly, all of this information is readily available — if one has an interest in actually understanding what they are talking about.


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ps ... ng+therapy

One thing I have leaned from academia in reading published journals is to always ask the question:

Who funded these studies? The answers almost always (the majority of times) lead back to sponsors who have vested interests in the outcomes.

You should read a few dozen of those papers before posting.

[SuperiorMan]

the same information which was manipulated and hidden in the past to push certain agendas?
(Speaking in general here)


Don't you find it weird the most militant countries outlaw this propaganda?

Who would you bet on to win a fight between a high testosterone male, vs a low testosterone male.

This is how to win a war without firing a single bullet btw, go ahead and eat the chain up

and this triggers the beta male tuner

[ruffneck_12]

the same information which was manipulated and hidden in the past to push certain agendas?
(Speaking in general here)


Don't you find it weird the most militant countries outlaw this propaganda?

Who would you bet on to win a fight between a high testosterone male, vs a low testosterone male.

This is how to win a war without firing a single bullet btw, go ahead and eat the chain up

and this triggers the beta male tuner

And this triggers mr poopy hed , bet u hav a smol pp haha

(love how simple your comeback is tho, just call someone a name if they disagree with your agenda to groom kids )

[SuperiorMan]

the same information which was manipulated and hidden in the past to push certain agendas?
(Speaking in general here)


Don't you find it weird the most militant countries outlaw this propaganda?

Who would you bet on to win a fight between a high testosterone male, vs a low testosterone male.

This is how to win a war without firing a single bullet btw, go ahead and eat the chain up

and this triggers the beta male tuner

And this triggers mr poopy hed , bet u hav a smol pp haha

(love how simple your comeback is tho, just call someone a name if they disagree with your agenda to groom kids )

I'm saying your comment triggers beta male tuners you retard. If you noticed my posts and comments before, I don't agree with "the agenda to groom kids".

[ruffneck_12]

damn, retard moment for real


My bad hoss. I will take this L and log off for the day there bois, too much screen time

[SuperiorMan]

no scene brah thanks for your honest work on this ched.