Pros and Cons of new 1.4 tsi Jetta

[EcoTune Trinidad]

Hey Bunny,

Just came across this and thought about your shuddering issue....http://www.hp.net.au/index.php/products/dq200

Does this apply to you?The shuddering you describe?Now with our remaps we can alter shifting an what not, but I have to look into this first gear recalibration they mention here. Apparently from what they describe is the shuddering causes premature clutch were when the rpm is too low and the car doesn't go into 1st gear unless you stop completely.

Will find out and let you know.

Maybe as a temporary resolution and to enhance life of the DSG it looks as if it's better to use the DSG in tiptronic mode through, or shift into it from drive,then downshift when slowing down? Just a though

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Hey Bunny,

Just came across this and thought about your shuddering issue....http://www.hp.net.au/index.php/products/dq200

Does this apply to you?The shuddering you describe?Now with our remaps we can alter shifting an what not, but I have to look into this first gear recalibration they mention here. Apparently from what they describe is the shuddering causes premature clutch were when the rpm is too low and the car doesn't go into 1st gear unless you stop completely.

Will find out and let you know.

Maybe as a temporary resolution and to enhance life of the DSG it looks as if it's better to use the DSG in tiptronic mode through, or shift into it from drive,then downshift when slowing down? Just a though

"1st gear reactivation, the 7 speed DSG’s do not use 1st gear any longer, only when taking off from a complete standstill. This causes abnormal wear & shuddering in the clutch packs (particularly the 1st to 2nd gear change). When driving below 17km/h the throttle response is poor as the gear is too high & RPM too low. Our software uses first gear for speeds up to 17kmph"

This happens when accelerating uphill sometimes. Very intermittent but usually it is this scenario. Car trying to accelerate from 5-10kph in 2nd gear. It never ever happens in sport mode or tiptronic as in both cases I would be in first gear.

And it is true that in D mode it rarely ever shifts back down to 1 and it can also shift earlier to 2 than I can in tiptronic mode. All this in the name of fuel economy.

[EcoTune Trinidad]

Well based on what those guys saying, looks like this maybe normal operations - in that regard remap or not, will not further shorten lifespan...

Alternatively guys at Protune said though our remaps can alter the behaviours, there can never be any guarantee the DSG will not perform like OEM; At some scenario it probably may not shift back dwn to 1st for eg.

The variables which will almost always interject are rpm,torque,road speed, engine load, road conditions, hills etc...this looks like those DSG tuners do nothing different from what we do, only via the DSG TCU - coming to think of it I doubt the DSG tune solely will act independantly of the ECU,at some degree different variables will cause it not to shift back down to 1st gear, so the shudder will be felt at that point

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

[cdx2k1]

When I first started driving the Jetta it used to feel one way, but then after a couple run ins some things about it change.It feels at times as if the computer is learning your driving style and adjusting its own parameters to suit

[cqk4]

When I first started driving the Jetta it used to feel one way, but then after a couple run ins some things about it change.It feels at times as if the computer is learning your driving style and adjusting its own parameters to suit

From what I've read it doesn't really learn your driving style but adjusts its parameters due to wear and the condition that it is currently in.

[greggle71]

Anybody knows who locally can do installation of suspension limiters?

I am upgrading my Jetta Wheels to 18s

Thanks,

[cdx2k1]

Where are you getting the limiters from?Curious..

[greggle71]

Multiple websites available when i search for the part number. Example below

https://www.volkswagen-parts.com/produc ... 30ce275320

[kingskid]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

Have you gone to the dealer yet?

[neexis]

Allergic:

From our previous convo regarding handsfree bluetooth with the rcd510, the module is 9W7 (which we both have on the spec sheets). It's not necessarily part of the 510 package though, but rather that the 510 is compatible with the bluetooth hardware once present

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

I've heard about this module. Forgot about it though. Thanks for the info. The module is under my driver seat I believe in black styrotex

[MG Man]

drove the new CC on Monday
I hate being poor

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

drove the new CC on Monday
I hate being poor

I used to prefer the previous Passat CC until I saw the new one recently at night. I now love it. I want LEDs on everything now because of that car. All LEDs everything.

[neexis]

lol@ all LEDs everything

drove the new CC on Monday
I hate being poor

yea.... that's why i tried to avoid even looking at that car. i really went to buy a jetta.
although i'm curious how that 2.0 TSI would've been.

[EcoTune Trinidad]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

Have you gone to the dealer yet?

Bunny, have you gone also?What was the explanation they gave you about this?

I have also been doing further reading and some guys seem to suggest that the shudder is nothing more than the applied engine torque being too low,and the dsg never shifts down to 1st to compensate....so in short the "shudder" replicates one riding 2nd gear when engine torque/speed s too low to be driven in 2nd.

What are your thoughts on this suggestion?on paper it makes sense to me, but I haven't owned a DSG long enough to notice/experience the shuddering.

[kingskid]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

Have you gone to the dealer yet?

Bunny, have you gone also?What was the explanation they gave you about this?

I have also been doing further reading and some guys seem to suggest that the shudder is nothing more than the applied engine torque being too low,and the dsg never shifts down to 1st to compensate....so in short the "shudder" replicates one riding 2nd gear when engine torque/speed s too low to be driven in 2nd.

What are your thoughts on this suggestion?on paper it makes sense to me, but I haven't owned a DSG long enough to notice/experience the shuddering.

I know your question was directed to bunny but I would like to respond.
The explanation makes allot of scene but it does not explain why it did not occurred from new .
Any thoughts.

[EcoTune Trinidad]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

Have you gone to the dealer yet?

Bunny, have you gone also?What was the explanation they gave you about this?

I have also been doing further reading and some guys seem to suggest that the shudder is nothing more than the applied engine torque being too low,and the dsg never shifts down to 1st to compensate....so in short the "shudder" replicates one riding 2nd gear when engine torque/speed s too low to be driven in 2nd.

What are your thoughts on this suggestion?on paper it makes sense to me, but I haven't owned a DSG long enough to notice/experience the shuddering.

I know your question was directed to bunny but I would like to respond.
The explanation makes allot of scene but it does not explain why it did not occurred from new .
Any thoughts.

No problem...its an open forum for all:).....I was thinking the issue surfaced after 11k miles as the clutches have now been broken in......the clutch for 2nd gear would wear out more maybe from our stop and go traffic congested roads?

The first gear would seldom engage to compensate for the reduced applied torque from the engine......the shudder is just the dsg adjusting to the 2nd gear clutch taking more wear than the others as it doesnt shift to first unless completely stopped?

This may/maynot be relevant but in manual type transmissions,when a clutch is new the grabbing power is stronger as the clutch peddle is stiffer....

Maybe a solution would be to raise the low end torque a bit which would put less strain on the 2nd?

[cqk4]

Hmm, so first off I have the manual vers of the jetta tsi. I could share my experience with the clutch and gear's one/two. I will say its difficult to get a smooth shift from one to two in lower revs, its often jerky if I don't baby it but on the other hand it shifts wonderfully at higher RPMS.

I don't often use gear 2 to go through traffic, pull off etc.. heck I cut off a few times when I tried it. I was actually wondering if tuning the torque curve would alleviate the lack of power there.

[EcoTune Trinidad]

Manual you say?special order or RORO?That there is a gem you have sir......and yes the torque curve is usually adjusted lower down...then if you get similiar 1st and 2nd gear issues...then it may very well be the torque curve needing adjusting no?

[MG Man]

Sounds like a driving style issue re manual. Moving off in 2nd in most cars requires very gentle use of the clutch, regardlesz of gearing or tq curve.....

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

That shudder could never be normal. It didn't do it when I got the vehicle and has only showed up recently. The manual doesn't make reference to it being a "feature" either.

Will mention it to the dealer at next service.

Bunny i am also experiencing the shudder, started around 11000 miles, i suspect you are doing around the same mileage. i think as the tran gets older this happens. Like you it happens during acceleration in 2 gear. i have the same engine and tran as you but in the golf variant.

Have you gone to the dealer yet?

Bunny, have you gone also?What was the explanation they gave you about this?

I have also been doing further reading and some guys seem to suggest that the shudder is nothing more than the applied engine torque being too low,and the dsg never shifts down to 1st to compensate....so in short the "shudder" replicates one riding 2nd gear when engine torque/speed s too low to be driven in 2nd.

What are your thoughts on this suggestion?on paper it makes sense to me, but I haven't owned a DSG long enough to notice/experience the shuddering.

I know your question was directed to bunny but I would like to respond.
The explanation makes allot of scene but it does not explain why it did not occurred from new .
Any thoughts.

No problem...its an open forum for all:).....I was thinking the issue surfaced after 11k miles as the clutches have now been broken in......the clutch for 2nd gear would wear out more maybe from our stop and go traffic congested roads?

The first gear would seldom engage to compensate for the reduced applied torque from the engine......the shudder is just the dsg adjusting to the 2nd gear clutch taking more wear than the others as it doesnt shift to first unless completely stopped?

This may/maynot be relevant but in manual type transmissions,when a clutch is new the grabbing power is stronger as the clutch peddle is stiffer....

Maybe a solution would be to raise the low end torque a bit which would put less strain on the 2nd?

I have heard different theories from different persons.
A VW tech in England said it could be the clutch lining bedding in and not to worry unless it does it after 20000 km. Another theory put forward (paraphrasing) is that the DSG is slipping the clutch slightly when driven like a granny. BA recommends I drive it enthusiastically in D i.e. don't feather it coming out of very slow corners. They will also look into it closely at the next servicing in terms of if there are any software updates to be done.

So for now in D mode I don't feather it...what I've noticed is this might force the car to downshift to 1 at times or it forces the clutches to press together more "firmly" for lack of a better description which prevents the judder. I'm still testing though so all of this is tentative.
What I did like was that the dealer did not brush the issue off and seemed very willing to offer advice/investigate. As always I will update with any info I get.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Sounds like a driving style issue re manual. Moving off in 2nd in most cars requires very gentle use of the clutch, regardlesz of gearing or tq curve.....

Gentle as in precise? As in precise or else you might get...judder?

[MG Man]

Gentle as in plenty slip, otherwise the tendency will be to stall. As I said, that would be for a manual... As for the fancypants clutchless gearbox, I cant see torque being an issue. Has to be either an issue with the fluid or the clutches themselves imho

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Gentle as in plenty slip, otherwise the tendency will be to stall. As I said, that would be for a manual... As for the fancypants clutchless gearbox, I cant see torque being an issue. Has to be either an issue with the fluid or the clutches themselves imho

Well in this instance that fancypants gearbox is just a clutch pedal less manual with two clutches. The only other major difference is the amount of transmission fluid used. Maybe similar issues can arise? *I dunno*

[MG Man]

I find it hard to believe VW would program shifts so that the engine labours in 2nd at too low an RPM...........I've only driven the GTi Golf and the new CC tho, not the Passat, so I don;t have 1st hand experience. Either way, those two cars pull effortlessly and always seem to be in the right gear.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

I find it hard to believe VW would program shifts so that the engine labours in 2nd at too low an RPM...........I've only driven the GTi Golf and the new CC tho, not the Passat, so I don;t have 1st hand experience. Either way, those two cars pull effortlessly and always seem to be in the right gear.

I, like you find it hard to believe some of the past mistakes VW has done (for example they had incorrectly gapped spark plugs in many of their 1.4 TSI twincharged engines back in 09 which lead to murmuring misfires and sudden catastrophic engine failures) but having had the chance to read through dealership materials I've come to realize manufacturers do in fact make mistakes. Not saying for sure this is in the same vein but just not leaving anything out of consideration.

Anyways the DSG in both the cars you mention are the 6 speed wet clutch DSG. They have better cooling due to the amount of fluid present. The juddering I have experienced only occurs after the tranny has heated up. Even then it is intermittent and random. Heat changes the friction coefficient of the friction materials on the clutches (usually reduces it). Those 6 speed wet clutches have less of an issue of changing friction coefficients so juddering is less likely of an issue.

I think we both agree that pulling off in 2nd gear is not always the "right" thing to do. The car doesn't know that it is on an incline as you just reach the hill so it wouldn't think to downshift to 1 on it's own unless you come to a full stop on it which to me under certain speeds and loads could lead to gear 2 not being the appropriate gear for that scenario at times. Mind you it doesn't "labour" for long. A second if so much until the revs climb past 1300-1500 rpm or somewhere abouts.

[MG Man]

yup
the hill thing could confuse it for sure........hopefully it's just a minor quirk, and not signs of worse to come
I have my share of dumb designs too......the MINI's power steering pump is a poor design, and eventually fails...I was lucky mine gave me 9 years service......and don't get me started on the dotish little cooling fan for said pump...if a stone jams it or muck makes it drag, the ecu pumps more juice to it, ultimately blowing the relay, which, get this, also controls the radiator fan...........so that dumb little fan has led to a few engines overheating and worse......gotta love Euros

[EcoTune Trinidad]

I have heard different theories from different persons.
A VW tech in England said it could be the clutch lining bedding in and not to worry unless it does it after 20000 km. Another theory put forward (paraphrasing) is that the DSG is slipping the clutch slightly when driven like a granny. BA recommends I drive it enthusiastically in D i.e. don't feather it coming out of very slow corners. They will also look into it closely at the next servicing in terms of if there are any software updates to be done.

So for now in D mode I don't feather it...what I've noticed is this might force the car to downshift to 1 at times or it forces the clutches to press together more "firmly" for lack of a better description which prevents the judder. I'm still testing though so all of this is tentative.
What I did like was that the dealer did not brush the issue off and seemed very willing to offer advice/investigate. As always I will update with any info I get.

Continuously mimicking this scenario for your testing period should somewhat prove what I suggested about lack of low end torque being applied maybe true as speed is too low a gear?no?

Then it can also be possible that then clutches aren't at fault,but rather the engine speed is too low for 2nd,which can explain "shudder"

Then by that reasoning if VW does in fact release a SW update would be to re-calibrate the shift points or maybe broaden the low end torque curve, so same as can be done by a remap.