MAZDA People United

[FullStop]

i know how it is mig

[nareshseep]

lime was cool sat night .....

What lime?

steupes .... u was by d computer u wasn't limin

BTW...yunno, I always read your name/thought your username was "naresheep"......Sorry dey eh.

wey boi naresh ... yuh get hit wid that one again !

yuh know... have me thinking bout using naresh_seep now yes!

[libra]

yea but wa yuh go do .... it already dey

[Computerman]

^^Well if you have charge air temp problems, I'm guessing you're picking up detonation issues?

Not yet, still breaking-in the clutch.

Or is it that the temperatures are looking off (going past 96-97 deg frequently)?

No problem once the car is moving... or on short trips. The problem occurrs when I stop after a long drive, the engine temp goes up higher than I'd like and the fan comes on 'late' because the sensor is on the rad side. However, if I lift the bonnet the temp regularises within 20 seconds. I will re-adjust the switch and see if that helps.

If you're getting detonation, then theoretically running a cooler temp t-stat could help! But, it'd be my last line of defense against detonation .....especially since there are other methods (like you said, bigger IC etc), and esp. if your engine has some age/mileage on it.

It's a 1989 engine with 'bout 200,000km on it.

[nareshseep]

Well after after adding that front strut bar, my interest has peaked in handling upgrades, so I looking to get something for the back, options are rear sway bar or rear strut bar or trunk brace, my thinking is that the rear sway bar > rear strut bar > trunk brace. Disadvantges is that the rear strut bar and trunk brace, takes up valuable space in the back.

[libra]

It's a 1989 engine

hmmm that engine almost old like me

[SUPAstarr]

ok guys i think im startin to hear that noise at full lock when yuh CV joint needs changing, but southern sales has the whole setup for 6k, so thats a no, online they hav the inner an outer cv joint for the 2.3l us version, but i dont kno if its the same...any advice

You check out the guys in Corinth there; I think they are Trinidad Front End or something like that. They prices a little hot but less than SS and you get a warranty.

who are they?? more info please??

Had them change the joint this morn, must say above all else they are very very corteous, organised and seemed to be very knowledgeable. Joint feels solid so far so im jus impressed over all.

[Wildcard26]

Yeah, like I said I had bot done on my ZM and they holding out pretty well. The wife uses that car and it sometimes has to take on some harsh terrain and so far so good.

[Alpha_2nr]

Well after after adding that front strut bar, my interest has peaked in handling upgrades, so I looking to get something for the back, options are rear sway bar or rear strut bar or trunk brace, my thinking is that the rear sway bar > rear strut bar > trunk brace. Disadvantges is that the rear strut bar and trunk brace, takes up valuable space in the back.

2534696_24_full.jpg

My other 2c....most folks rush to do strut bars etc etc on their cars, when they can't really maxmise the potential of the parts they're buying.

Also, most people assuming "corner lean" = "corner grip" (it isn't).


If you're really interested in going a little more precisely around corners, and minimizing understeer.....I'd have done this (applies to any car):

1) Get rid of the crap tyres you MAY be driving on. If you aren't....great! Get some good tyres e.g. BF Goodrich G-Force Sports, Proxes T1R's, Dunlop SP SPortMAxx's, Kumho Ecsta Supra, Potenza RE040/RE050/S-02 (pay attention to the bolded model designations).


2) Look at adjusting camber settings around the car if possible. Increasing front negative camber while decreasing rear neg. camber (if it can be done at the rear), will lead to less understeer, and a switch to a slightly more progressive understeer - to - neutral feel. If done right, you may be able to experience just a hint of oversteer on throttle lift off, or if following a trailbraking line - which will lead to better turn into your corner apex.......



Having crappy suspension settings, and tyres, only devalue strut bars and the like (and I've never used these on any of my cars yet....except the 8....which has one already )

[dervynayr]

LOL! I understand yuh mig. U really shouldn't!! thanx eh!!

BTW mig, Oct 2nd is the day (2010) bring yuh car and come! .....We race.....

[dervynayr]

Nothing beats an open challenge....

[nareshseep]

Well after after adding that front strut bar, my interest has peaked in handling upgrades, so I looking to get something for the back, options are rear sway bar or rear strut bar or trunk brace, my thinking is that the rear sway bar > rear strut bar > trunk brace. Disadvantges is that the rear strut bar and trunk brace, takes up valuable space in the back.

2534696_24_full.jpg

My other 2c....most folks rush to do strut bars etc etc on their cars, when they can't really maxmise the potential of the parts they're buying.

Also, most people assuming "corner lean" = "corner grip" (it isn't).


If you're really interested in going a little more precisely around corners, and minimizing understeer.....I'd have done this (applies to any car):

1) Get rid of the crap tyres you MAY be driving on. If you aren't....great! Get some good tyres e.g. BF Goodrich G-Force Sports, Proxes T1R's, Dunlop SP SPortMAxx's, Kumho Ecsta Supra, Potenza RE040/RE050/S-02 (pay attention to the bolded model designations).


2) Look at adjusting camber settings around the car if possible. Increasing front negative camber while decreasing rear neg. camber (if it can be done at the rear), will lead to less understeer, and a switch to a slightly more progressive understeer - to - neutral feel. If done right, you may be able to experience just a hint of oversteer on throttle lift off, or if following a trailbraking line - which will lead to better turn into your corner apex.......



Having crappy suspension settings, and tyres, only devalue strut bars and the like (and I've never used these on any of my cars yet....except the 8....which has one already )

Points are noted, good tyres increase braking and cornering ability. A rear strut is necessasy for the 323 hatchback as it has no rear support as the sedan.
however, on the topic of cambering wouldnt adjusting camber increase wear on tyre life?

Also some links on improving handling on the protege5
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3820
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454

[Alpha_2nr]

^Yes it increases wear on tyres. Stock camber for most cars is at least somewhat negative at all our points. unfortunately, many local "shops" put the tyres vertical (as in minimal camber) in order to maximise tyre life. That adjustment reduces "handling".

Stock camber settings are normally setup with more negative camber at the rear than the front, which leads to predictable understeer - which is easier for the typical ham-fisted driver to handle. Oversteer on an everyday car is not considered industry practice.

The key to tyre wear comes down to regular rotations..and that helps esp at more aggressive camber setups......and if I know I'm going to run a softer compound, I try to avoid unidirectional tyres as far as possible, as that makes diagonal rotations harder (you'd have to remove and remount tyres in that case).

But if someone is worried about wear on tyres (and saving money), then clearly, they aren't prepared to buy anything other than a hard compound tyre, which probably means they aren't going to explore handling potential more than putting on a strut bar and feeling like Takumi's long lost brother.


I'm not a believer in excessive chassis/frame stiffening devices for a daily driver on LOCAL roads, as it leads to increased stress at suspension mounting points, since the body doesn't flex as much.

Keep in mind the body of your car is technically a part of your suspension - it flexes and twists as each wheel moves over bumps independently. In fact, for the WRX, I was considering a Cusco Hbrace and floor pan braces, but was advised against it by Jaime "Subiegal" (rally driver and shop owner)....since she encouraged/recommended more suspension and body compliance over choppy roads, with more attention being paid to sways, tyres, and spring rates.

[dervynayr]

Omg... someone has been doing home work...
Can i borrow your notes for this semester's mid-terms. My mom's gonna kill me if I don't ace this one ...

[Wildcard26]

All hail the Alpha_2nr!

Great info there and very interesting read. It makes sense what you put in those last 2 posts in deed. Makes me wonder about the relevance of my strut but mine came when I bought the car so it's all good

[nareshseep]

True boi Wildcard26, man having me seriously questioning what to do with the suspension setup. I was all go on front strut and rear sway bar, now I have to reconsider...lol....a lot of info gain here for true from Alpha_2nr!

It is one complicated procedure balancing handling and comfort. I have a strut bar on the zmde sedan (stock with soft generic strut bar) and hatchback (dropped with stiff strut bar) what I realise is that the sedan ride is much more comfortable than the hatch and gain much more benefit from the addition of the bar which was the reason I got one for the hatch. May opt to go to mazdaspeed springs (0.75 drop as opposed to the 2" drop from the teins (currently) and tokico shocks.

[FullStop]

also, installing a strut tower bar is not so simple as bolting it up, ur supposed to jack the front of the car up to allow the strut bar to pull the tops of the shock mounts slightly creating a small amount of negative camber...tighten, torque nuts jack down...

[FullStop]

naresheep, (front strut bar ^ rear sway bar)=oversteer=((fun) v (death))

lotsa fun and once u get accustomed to it ur not gonna want anything else.

[nareshseep]

@ghostbusters the strut is a fixed joint type, I doubt if I jack up the car it will get a negative camber.
With the strut bar it take less effort to turn corner, and the car is a lot more stable at high speed. Cant wait to get that rear sway bar!

[Alpha_2nr]

also, installing a strut tower bar is not so simple as bolting it up, ur supposed to jack the front of the car up to allow the strut bar to pull the tops of the shock mounts slightly creating a small amount of negative camber...tighten, torque nuts jack down...

Correct!

It is one complicated procedure balancing handling and comfort. I have a strut bar on the zmde sedan (stock with soft generic strut bar) and hatchback (dropped with stiff strut bar) what I realise is that the sedan ride is much more comfortable than the hatch and gain much more benefit from the addition of the bar which was the reason I got one for the hatch. May opt to go to mazdaspeed springs (0.75 drop as opposed to the 2" drop from the teins (currently) and tokico shocks.

That spring and shock combo sounds pretty dope...I've always been a proponent of those versus all-out coilovers (not sleeves that is eh!) for trini roads. Tokico Illuminas I trust?

Keep in mind another misconception with springs (I've experiemented with this on other cars...).....folks assume dropping the car=better handling because of a lower centre of gravity. While you will have a lower centre of gravity, if the springs and shocks aren't matched in terms of rates, then you technically lose "bump traction" (or simply, wheel contact with the road).

An easy way to tell is if you get a somehwat bouncy feel when going over choppy road with your car. Chances are (assuming your shocks aren't dead!) is that the damping rates of your shocks are too soft for the sprnig rates.

Also, keep in mind lowering TOO much is also detrimental, as it affects the very suspension geometry of the car, since the available portion of the "camber curve" on which the wheel moves when going into corners is now less.

'Camber curve' - remember as your shocks/springs are compressed as your car rolls to one side, the camber of that wheel changes a little also. Lowering too much means a loss of suspension travel, adn loss of the camber "flexibility".

Which is probably the reasons why Mazdaspeed only lowers by 0.75", as they'bve probably deemed that the best compromise between stance, spring rates, and good traction.

Not to bash S-Tech Teins...but remember Tein said it themselves - those are "dress up springs" (as in appearance).

With the strut bar it take less effort to turn corner, and the car is a lot more stable at high speed. Cant wait to get that rear sway bar!

You're spot on with that. A strut bar helps steering "feel" and response. Your car is a BJ 323? Do those use rear sways? Careful with selecting sizes!

[nareshseep]

@Alpha_2nr, yup there are various suspension for the bj 323, my 2002 protege5 has front and rear sway bars. I have not gotten a chance to measure the bars but I think its either 21mm or 23mm in front and either16mm or 17mm in the rear.

Taken from http://www.protegefaq.net/

Can suspension parts from foreign 323/Familia models be used to improve the
performance of my BJ chassis Protegé? What about MP3 parts?

Yes, please read below for a detailed explaination.

The stock suspension for the BJ Protegé can be roughly categorized into 4
groups: Normal, Hard, Sport and MP3/MSP.

The “Normal” suspension has been used only on cars bound for Asian/Pacific
countries. It uses softer springs, no rear sway bar, and a smaller front sway bar
than U.S.-market cars (the actual diameter of this swaybar has not been verified).
The small front swaybar from this model may be useful to reduce understeer for
competition in SCCA Solo II Stock-class competition. Other than this swaybar,
parts from this suspension are probably of little use to U.S. and Canadian
enthusiasts.

The “Hard” suspension uses a 20mm front swaybar and a 16mm rear swaybar
for the 1999-2000 cars. The front swaybar has been increased to 21mm in
2001, possibly to increase understeer "safety" handling. This suspension has
been used on DX & LX U.S. and Canadian-market BJ Protegés. Some models
use different lengths of springs to keep the ride height uniform between cars with
different combinations of optional equipment. However, the spring rates are
always the same; the only difference is the length.

The “Sport” suspension has been used on various European, Japanese,
Asian/Pacific 323 and the 2001+ ES and P5. It uses slightly stiffer (by ~15%
than "hard") springs and struts than the “Normal” suspension. The front sway bar
is also larger (22mm) and the rear sway bar is 17mm. The front sway bar has
been increased to 23mm in mid 2002, probably also to increase understeer
"safety" handling. Ride height maybe slightly lower than the “Hard” suspension.

The MP3 suspension uses stiffer springs (10% stiffer than "sport") that lower the
car by about 15mm, a front strut tower brace, stiffer Tokico struts, and larger
swaybars- 25mm front, 19mm rear. Parts from this suspension may be used to
upgrade lesser Protegés; however, the swaybar endlinks on a BJ Protegé attach
to the struts, and the MP3 uses stronger brackets to accommodate the stiffer
swaybars (see Racing Beat's site for more information). If you use MP3 sway
bars without the matching MP3 struts, be prepared to reinforce the strut brackets.
The MazdaSpeed Protegé's suspension design is based off of the MP3's suspen-
sion. It uses even more stiffer springs and Tokico struts. Because the suspension
design is based off of the MP3, the problems mentioned above also were inherited.

[dervynayr]

All that is well and good, but can anyone get me a lower tie bar?

I don't need any justification for it, I want it. I will do my own experiments. Thanks for any assistance.

[FullStop]

yea naresheep, the rear swaybar is 20mm, subaru impreza sti's have that diameter in front, and our front upgrade swaybar is 25mm, installing just the rear induces oversteer, guys in the US on mazdas247 say the car is much more neutral with both the sways installed, which is expected really.

Something else of note is that as much as matching the racingbeat swaybar to the wrong strut can cause the strut bracket to rip, it is important to get good burly endlinks. This swaybar will destroy the socket/bearing in cheap endlinks and after that goes it chews through your swaybar bushings in about a week. Good polyurethane bushings and strong endlinks are important. cheap endlinks will result in the legenday and dreaded 'clunking'.

allyuh fellas on top allyuh game, great info here...

[dervynayr]

my my... look what I found...

It is apparently a zm and fs owners manual with wiring diagrams and everything mazda.

[dervynayr]

I want to find ah ZL (-ve preferably) manual....
who have ah copy?

[MAZTUNE]

I want to find ah ZL (-ve preferably) manual....
who have ah copy?

Shiva. or THUG LOL. come lewwe organise a ZL-VE run on the X2.

[Wildcard26]

Man get call out oui!

[dervynayr]

who get call out dey?

[nareshseep]

hmm where are the zlve's
700kms before I can race

[dervynayr]

The X2? lol!!! if that is the same place i thinking then that is lockdown area.... Why not.