Views on Subaru TS Conversion

[Hybrid Singh]

To all subaru owners, what are your views on purchasing a Subaru TS 1.6, purchasing a turbo front 1/2 and transfering everything from this to the TS?

[Alpha_2nr]

The front half alone won't cut it.

You'd need to convert your rear end as well, to handle the upgraded tranny/gearbox. And if you're changing you're rear diff, the you'd have to change your axles, and then your rear hubs to discs, etc etc etc. PLus your fuel system would need revamping.
Basically your entire drivetrain would need to be changed. And it still won't handle like a WRX, much less for an STI.

So if you want to do the complete conversion, it might cost you the same (if not less) to buy a full WRX or STI (depending on whihc conversion you wanna do).

[Alpha_2nr]

This topic has been well discussed here:
http://forums.trinituner.com/forums/vie ... highlight=

Well the STI engines are very expensive, if you can get any regular turbo engine from the legacy, WRX or forester, youre on, same items, different hp figures from different ECUs and mapping, but they will all get you where you want.

If you are replacing in the tranny/gearbox as well, you need the exact matching rear diff meant for the particular engine, dont accept any guesswork here. You rear diff ratio must match the front diff ratio built into the gearbox/tranny

^^Turboing the stock engine isn't as practical as you think. You'd need to get a turbo, upgrade internals, run engine management etc. Noopne make aftermarket internals for the EJ16 to my knowledge...and if you decide to turbo, and run on lower boost on stock internals, then what's the point? You won't be making that much horsepower anyway.

If you are replacing in the tranny/gearbox as well, you need the exact matching rear diff meant for the particular engine, dont accept any guesswork here. You rear diff ratio must match the front diff ratio built into the gearbox/tranny

InDeForest is quite correct. You can't just drop in an EJ20T. You'd need to swap out your tranny/gearbox for a matching one...and then once you do that, your rear diff will have to change, and then your rear axles by extension. Once you're changing your axles, then your brakes will have to be changed as well, as the stock TS's won't work on the upgraded rear end. Then you may have to change suspension as a result. Additionally, your fuel system will need to be upgraded.

All in all, the swap is alot more costly than you think, and at the end of the day, the toal cost of the car, and the swap, may cost you just a little bit less than an all out WRX/STi. Might as well just sell the TS and buy a WRX/STi and done.

Holdup a sec here, im not sure that the axles and rear hubs need changing on the EJ20t conversion,
in the case of upgrading to the sti engine with 6 speed box, yes, the rear diff changes too, and the rear axles must change because the sti rear diff is wider (shorter axles), and then you need the STI rear hubs to fit those axles on the outer end.
BUT it may be the case that a TS and WRX rear diff have the same width, that i do not know.
But it boils down to what Knight says yes, sell the TS and buy the WRX and done,and the resale value of a WRX is higher than a TS/WRX project swapper.

[Hybrid Singh]

Yeah Knight, thanx for the info. I just opened the forum and posted topic and then read the other posts, typical trini, talk then think.

I would like to keep the car Automatic though for a little easier driving, my other car is manual and the copper does really eXersize ur left foot in traffic.....

[Alpha_2nr]

^^Well some of the WRX's have come auto. Remember the XT (or older St/b) foresters came auto as well....so at auto isn't that far fetched.

my other car is manual and the copper does really eXersize ur left foot in traffic.....

That must be stress as a daily driver. I use stock/OEM organic on mine.

[Sunrise City Rider]

If the TS is AWD, you can get any WRX engine with complete wire harness and ECU and bolt it directly to the stock Tranny...You don't need to change out all the drivetrain to run the engine in your stock TS...

[15devils]

hey this isn't the first time I heard that also....a mech from abroad was saying the same thing...he said that the final drive ratio in the jdm ej20 turbo engine was 4.1111 and the TS is 4.0000,he said that once the swap was done and the engine is being run on stock boost,you wouldn't need to change the rear diff.....but still its a big chance to take..anyone can confirm the final drive ratio between the two cars(wrx and TS) ???
but as the guys said...that conversion is way to much...just buy a rex one time

[Sunrise City Rider]

Nah man, get the engine and do the swap...The engine has nothing to do with the tranny or final drives...The engine bolts up to any AWD tranny and may even bolt to the FWDs if they look like the AWD trannies...

You need all the wiring, ECU and complete engine...Engine mounts should be the same for all EJ engines...

[JWT]

pm silvermike he could help uh out

[Alpha_2nr]

Nah man, get the engine and do the swap...The engine has nothing to do with the tranny or final drives...The engine bolts up to any AWD tranny and may even bolt to the FWDs if they look like the AWD trannies...

You need all the wiring, ECU and complete engine...Engine mounts should be the same for all EJ engines...

And what about fuel system? That is definitely not the same.

[15devils]

so sunrise city rider,you sayin it'll bolt back on the stock ej16 tranny and run normal ?

[Alpha_2nr]

I'm under the impression that the final drive on the gearbox mated to the engine should match your rear diff. As you pointed out, they don't....

[Sunrise City Rider]

You just need to go with a Return Fuel System if its any different than the TS, I doubt it...

You may need the Fuel Pump Controller if its out of a Bug-Eye WRX and you use the WRX Engine Wire Harness...


My 00 GC8 Impreza required me to swap in the entire Chassis Harness from a Bug-Eye WRX and splice in all the plugs for the Electrical, like Headlight, Windows, etc...

If you get the entire front clip and harness, you can do the swap Easiest...The front clip will usually come with the tranny and Rear Diff/Axle/Subframe...But, you don't need all that...The tranny's housing will bolt up to any EJ engine...

[Rx]

this has been done already here in t&t ...... give it a shot

[riderz]

Ok sorry I came on this thread kinda late, but let me give you my 2cents based on experience. Firstly TS to STi swap (not upgrade has been done before).

You can try to put in a front half on the TS using WRX or STi powertrain, but why. The car would not handle like a STi, not to mention the tranny cannot take that kinda Hp, after a while you would be looking for a new box or tranny.

So if you decided to make the drivetrain swap too then you looking for a rear diff. No matter what you do. The GDA final drive on the MT is 4.444 the AT is 4.111. The GC8 MT gearbox is 4.111 so most likely you would have to go back for a WRX pre 99 model to fit up the box. I believe the TS is really 4.0 but I cant say for sure.

STi is basic all the final drive I believe is 3.9.

Now once you do the engine transfer you still have the wiring to complete. I suggest too you get the rear harness and fuel tank complete. The TS doesnt not have the secondary fuel sensor or the electronic fuel pump control. These are two items necessary for the injectors to get the proper fuel pressure.

I have seen a complete engine, suspension and trany transfer. The car came to me when it required a little more electrical work and tuning. It handles better than most STi putting out more than 300Hp. The final cost of the project didnt reach $120,000.00. So I can tell you the conversion option is cheaper and the only way you would not know the difference is if you do the entire upgrade.

[Alpha_2nr]

The GDA final drive on the MT is 4.444 the AT is 4.111

Nope

Some GDA's come with the 4.4:1 manual

Others come with the 3.9:1 manual

Auto GDA = 4.1:1 standard/across the board.

[15devils]

hey what about dropping a stock wrx engine into the TS,and then lower the boost so the stock tranny could take it ? aye ah just asking eh....

[Alpha_2nr]

^^Then what's the point man? That's like buying a Ferrari, but only driving in 1st and 2nd gears. You're missing all the fun.

[Sunrise City Rider]

Subaru never revised the actual tranny until they came out with the 6-speed version...

The AWD trannies all use the same size case, gears, etc...Only exception is the '04-up Gearbox(thats 04 WRX in the States) uses a slightly wider Gear, like maybe .5mm wider to "beef" up the tranny...This was done as a result of all the WRX tranny failures that Subaru Of America were repairing under warranty...

The tranny is not gonna go because you have a 300HP engine...If you drop the clutch @ 5000RPM from a Deadstop you will shorten your tranny's life...

Again, The Stock AWD Subaru Trannies that came on the Non-Turbo Vehicles are not gonna blow with an EJ20 Turbo engine attached to it...

[15devils]

Again, The Stock AWD Subaru Trannies that came on the Non-Turbo Vehicles are not gonna blow with an EJ20 Turbo engine attached to it...

sweeeetttt !!!!!

[madcoolieboy]

waaaay this reminding of men with their nissan conversions swappin out for sr20s and rb's... it gone to subaru now? lawwwwwwd... i may be wrong but the ts is a ts at the end of the day...the engine,trans,suspension and braking systems designed to run together.... a WRX or WRX STi different.. yes parts may work up and you may be able to work up a frankenstein project but you goin and have to change out real thing sooner or later.... this sounding real interesting to see in real i hope it works out for you... but at the end of the day STi's may still be making you eat dust....

[15devils]

awright did a lil research,the TS has a final drive ratio of 4.111 so the following transmissions would work on the TS without you having to change the rear diff to match the tranny..if anyone still wants to swap in a ej20

2000-2001 2.5RS 5MT, 4.111(impreza)
2002+ WRX 4EAT, 4.111
2000-2002 Forester S 5MT, 4.111
2003+ with Disc Brakes 5MT, 4.111(forester)

[Go Fast]

Nah man, get the engine and do the swap...The engine has nothing to do with the tranny or final drives...The engine bolts up to any AWD tranny and may even bolt to the FWDs if they look like the AWD trannies...

You need all the wiring, ECU and complete engine...Engine mounts should be the same for all EJ engines...

it seems like you wnt this fella to buy a new gearbox!!!!!
the ts transmission as well as the manual gearbox will be shortly destroyed with that amount of power going through it. if you don't rough it up.... it'll last but who want to have a turbo chaarged scooby and not press?

[Go Fast]

any body wanna know how to swap check out my thread @ scoobytnt.com - look for ej 20 swap in service and maintainence

[greyfox2501]

u have the exact link?

[Go Fast]

http://www.scoobytnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1534

[riderz]

The GDA final drive on the MT is 4.444 the AT is 4.111

Nope

Some GDA's come with the 4.4:1 manual

Others come with the 3.9:1 manual

Auto GDA = 4.1:1 standard/across the board.

Ah ha....and what exactly you said that is different to what I said.

GDA MT 4.444:1
GDA AT 4.111:1
GDB MT 3.9:1

In other words to those people who can read well. The WRX that comes in either MT or AT would be 4.444:1 or 4.111:1. The STI (GDB) comes in 3.9 because of the extra gear.

[Alpha_2nr]

^^^

Ah ha....and what exactly you said that is different to what I said.

In other words to those people who can read well. The WRX that comes in either MT or AT would be 4.444:1 or 4.111:1.

It seems that you didn't read my post PROPERLY/WELL.

Nope

Some GDA's come with the 4.4:1 manual

Others come with the 3.9:1 manual

I said OTHERS come with the 3.9:1 final drive...as in OTHER GDA's...I wasn't speaking of the GDB.

Let me repeat my self. NOT ALL MANUAL GDA's come witha 4.4:1 final drive.

Some GDA's come with a 3.9:1 drive ratio.

GDA MT 4.444:1
GDA AT 4.111:1
GDB MT 3.9:1

THis is incorrect. It should read as follows:

GDA NB MT = 4.444:1
GDA MT = 3.9:1
GDA AT = 4.1:1
GDB MT = 3.9:1

[riderz]

oh can you please enlighten me which, GDA comes with 3.9 final drive?

[Alpha_2nr]

^^DUH the export models do, which share the same tranny with the US Spec car.

That was one of the major complaints on the export/SDM WRX's, vs. the JDM's in that there was a nice transition between 4th and 5th in JDM (coupled with AVCS), but the SDM/UK/US Spec (227 bhp) had a sharp drop from 4th to 5th.

http://www.spdusa.com/new_page_5.htm

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadt ... subaru_wrx


GDA EJ205 - DRIVETRAIN (Export)
Layout : Longitudinal front engine, all-wheel drive
Transmission : Five-speed manual
Gear Ratios
1 : 3.454:1
2 : 1.947:1
3 : 1.366:1
4 : 0.972:1
5 : 0.738:1
Final drive : 3.9:1
Differentials Front : Open
Center : Viscous limited-slip
Rear : Viscous limited-slip





For EASE of reading/understanding:

A more reasonable and convenient excuse for European WRX models to have a tall set of gears is the high speeds seen still seen on the Autobahn and to a lesser extent in England, because you can get busted for over 100 mph on the motorway. Or, we might claim that an 'average' American consumer would also be alarmed at 3500 rpm plus engine speeds on cruise control. Both are in fact true reasons for selling a wide ratio gearbox outside of Japan, but in reality our EPA gas mileage test cycle has long favored a very tall 5th gear to get the fuel mileage as high as it possibly can. There is wide ratio and then there is w-i-d-e ratio. We have the w-i-d-e ratio.

Do your research