4 age or 4 efte

[Anton]

Those pistons were calling me there for a while. (Then d madam hit me upside the head with ah bilnah )

[eliteauto]

lol good reading in this thread guess it pays to rile up the Toyota men now and again

[smokey1275]

for sure man

[shinakuma]

5 pages of talk but all i wanted waz 2 race a 20v or a 4agze 2 prove my point anyways d 20v is a good engine jus dont bash d 4efte or I will return Match up na wit na not na wit turbo and please when a 1.3 offers 2 race please accept. I let my car do d talking like any true racer would.

[smokey1275]

I see well there's nothing wrong in some good ole' fun , what do you think?

[thegtiman]

hey Zeriam, my first boosted car was a 4agze in a ae80 corolla, trust me bro, i used to tear those 20V levins a new one and i was stock as a rock. They would get the launch on me cause of the amount of wheel spin i used to get but as soon as i pick up traction i walked passed them, i heard their engines screaming probably running it at all 9K
Please dont go off thinking that a stock 20V can take down a stock 4agze cause u in for a rude awakening. The 4age vs the 4efte, the 4age might stand a chance against the 4efte, stock for stock, it might come down to the driver and and who has better tyres and lsd, once the boost is turned up by probably just 2 psi on the 4efte, its a whole different engine.

This man knows what he is saying.
I dont rate this 20v motor as it is gutless. The 170bhp is attained high up. Only has 120lbft of torque. I installed one of these 3 years ago as an economy motor in my fathers AE101 sedan. It is OK and revier than the 4AFE it replaced. It does make 170bhp due to varing the overlap between the intake and exhaust thus allowing high VEs past 6200revs. This is why they make between 165-170bhp. To me the older 4AGEUs felt stronger even though they "only" revved to 7700.
The 165, 170bhp or even 145bhp GZE version makes proper torque at only 8psi and this is why they feel so strong and go on to break the LSD C154 gearbox when you start messing with pullies. We made a pulley locally and had 12psi from the SC12 charger.
In case you wondering I have been invovled with these motors from the first white AW11 MR2 S/C to hit the streets in the 90s to a Gold AE92 that we put a SC14 charger in. I even completed an GZE install in a CK2 lancer with the mitsubishi tach working an all.
A 133bhp 4EFTE has 133lbft of torque @9psi (Hi setting). In terms of striaght line perfromance, an EP82 GT Turbo does 0-60 in 7.3secs and the standing 1/4mile in 15.4@93mph, 60 ft is in 2.4secs This is with a basic tune-up/optimisation.
On this same car I have fitted a boost controller, 2.5 inch downpipe to after cat by pass, readjusted the dizzy and set boost to 0.88bar. My times now are 0-60 in 6secs and the 1/4mile in 14.62@96.67mph with a 2.33 60ft. I am running the STD CT9 turbo, TMIC with STD exhaust manifold and front mount aircleaner with appropiate velocity stack. My inlet temperatures are 40degC in boost ambient on the day 10deC. EGTs are around 850 at full bawl.
WRT to the toyota ECM and fuel I have logged my AFRS at 11.5 to 7200rev limit once boost loading is sensed. This happens right to the boost cut. At 30kpa and low revs your AFRs are 15.4.
As the ECM stopp you post 14psi I am currently building a programable ECU to extract more out of this hardware. I am also modifing the Toyota CT9 to pass more airflow per pressure ratio.
On the last 4AGZE car I had you will find traction a huge issue. I even made it worse by installing a SC14 1GGZE charger. These things have too much torque but go like stink once you past the first two gears.
My best 0-60 was 6.9secs and the 1/4 was 14.8@98mph. Note the higher terminal speed but crap ETs compared to the EP82. 60 ft was 2.9secs
An EE80 with a 4E-FTE it will slighty slower than a ligher EP82 or 91 but it will be tractive than say a 4AGZE.
Do not waste your time on a 20v unless you have the budget to add either a supercharger or a turbo and nessecessary engine controls. Dollar for Torque the 4EFTE is a good choice.

[shinakuma]

theqtiman - u are wise my friend i tried 2 get these 20v supporters 2 realize dat. I was beginning 2 think dat i was d only one supporting d 4efte. They feel 14sec out of a 4efte involves mods. Where were u when i was getting talks in dis thread.

[thegtiman]

^^Normally on the VW forums

I should edited and said I am installing a CT12B turbo (2JZGTE, 1 of) and trying to get the CT9 turbine end backcut to fit the larger CT12 turbine. I should come close to 220BHP and 180ish lbft with this and lower the ET. Its all about the Dollar to Response and the "feel" or area under the torque/power curve.

[Strauss]

The 20V 4AGE will conquer a 4EFTE. Been there, done that. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD.

eh heh?? ah have 4efte for u to mash up bad bad bad, it in ah lil blue starlet, small mods

How come you never invite me?
Even though I might get licks bad bad bad.

[Strauss]

thegtiman

The SC14 of the 1G will bolt on without problems? I thinking of going that route.

[Anton]

Don't think it's a bolt on bro. Some bracketry modification is needed. I'm also contemplating the sc14 swap.

[Razkal]

shinakuma, stop being a god damn fassy face, all these guys here have made a lil heatd but very informative thread...u sound like u've got a carrot stuck sideways up your arse. tell u what, my car is stock (n i aint lying...ask 33hertz, i have management lookin pretty and it not even tuned lol)...i'll drop boost to 3psi or something n race u k pumpkin?

20V guys...on a sidenote...i've heard that altho the engine is very strong and impressive, after u do basic mods like I/H/E and maybe ignition upgrade...modding the 4AGE becomes very costly, wrt cams and internal work, any of u 20V guys have aftermarket cams installed?
not bashing the 20V, but i mean everyone gets bored when stuck at a power level too long, n going into head work on the AGE might be hard on the pocket of budget tuners.

[eliteauto]

^^ it is an expensive choice when it comes to modification, it's nice as a drop-in for the first year or so but afterwards....... sigh

[smokey1275]

that's why the 16valve bnig port is the choice over the 20valve silver or black top.The mods are too limited

[smokey1275]

big port

[eliteauto]

^^ this is what? the older 4age?

[thegtiman]

thegtiman

The SC14 of the 1G will bolt on without problems? I thinking of going that route.

You have to make new connectors for the inlet and outlet as these fit in different locations in the 1GGZE motor. The bracket will have to be modified as well and it was very tight to fit if the car is a AE91 like what we had with the engine in place. Boost pressure goes up as you are now dealing with 1.4litres per rev from supercharger or more airflow. TMIC becomes a radiator and must be replaced with something more effiecent and mounted to the front.

[Razkal]

corollalover101, was your red GT stock? i mean for N/A guys i still consider I/H/E to be stock, as nearly all of u do this as a basic upgrade....
when i saw u on the highway headin to Arima that time, u gave the car a lil tush somewhere after macoya lights n i thought it was REAL impressive!
i'm sure that day u'd have given me a run for my money

[thegtiman]

^^ this is what? the older 4age?

"Big ports" had Toyota Variable Indution System butterflys to keep gas speed high and low revs and deactivated from 5500revs ( blue writing on cam covers). Similar thing was also seen in the 1986' 1GGEs.

[Anton]

20V guys...on a sidenote...i've heard that altho the engine is very strong and impressive, after u do basic mods like I/H/E and maybe ignition upgrade...modding the 4AGE becomes very costly, wrt cams and internal work, any of u 20V guys have aftermarket cams installed?
not bashing the 20V, but i mean everyone gets bored when stuck at a power level too long, n going into head work on the AGE might be hard on the pocket of budget tuners.

Thats why i had to think long and hard about choosing a replacement engine for my ae111. The 20v is a hoot in stock trim, but after a while you get fustrated with the lack of available affordable modifications. In the end the 4agze looked like the best platform to start from ie forged pistons, oil squirters, ribbed block etc

[Razkal]

^green 'bug eye' local AE111 from uwi right?
yeah i'm in natsci, see ur car all the time, sounds great man! i drive the black 1st gen rx7 parked up there sometimes..
u had the black lift-back with the 20V in right?......wud u recommend the 20V over the FTE tho? lookin at a price range of not more than 7K for engine tranny and ecu/harness complete...i'm not sure how much the GZE goes for but i'm pretty sure its more than 7K

[Anton]

Never had any experience with the 4efte so i can't really draw any comparisons. The 20v is a nice engine and parts not so difficult to get new. To make big power in either engine money would have to be spent. A boosted 20v (Siver top) with low comp pistons will be madness tho. What chassis the engine going in?

[shinakuma]

Razkal sorry 4 taking so long 2 reply but i think i know ur car from uwi right ? I hear it have drags in curepe on tuesday nights i will come up and give u a small race. I will let my car do d trash talkin. Come on d cross saturday an battle or jus say when an where an i go meet u. D 20v iz d more expensive of d 2 engines but u need 2 specify what u puttin it in as they can fit bolt 4 bolt in certain toyotas. D 4efte stock will outperform d 20v (OH gosh trust me on dat)and u jus need a $500 boost controller 2 have a 14sec car. How dis mazda man invade d toyota forum like he want 2 convert Bring it on!

[Razkal]

^pallie i doh run my car on the road, n i dont intend to....atleast not to shut u up ...altho it might be worth it
n like any true car guy....i dont fight the 'my car manufacturer better than yours!' war....thats better left for the toddlers...i always had a great appreciation for toyotas, esp the 20V and 2JZ engines...and seein sum of these monsters down here...now also the 3S


Anton, i was jus askin the question again after all the 'cards were on the table' so to speak, cause i mean i realise no one really gave a strong answer to 33hertz

[thegtiman]

A strong answer would be to TELL him to put a particular engine in his car!
4A is a bigger motor than a 4E Fact.
If both were N/A and revved to the same limit one would produce less BHP by nature of its size and max VE.
But this becomes a different matter when the smaller motor is boosted and runs at least 1.6 times absoulte atomspheres vs the bigger engine that is a bit more efficient at getting its cylinders filled using the weight of the atomosphere at higher than normal revs.
You will never get a 4AGE 16v or 20v to produce 133lb from 3500-4000revs or even a 120lbft without a charger.
Same thing applies to a 4EFTE motor with no variable cam timing spinning to 7700 or 8200 to produce 170bhp without a turbo.
BHP, WHP, PS, HK outputs do not win races (but probably arguments). Its the torque (feel) and gearing that counts.

Ulitmately the engine that can maintain higher VEs and higher clyinder pressures coupled with the right gearbox ratios and in the correct sized car would be one that will be the most pleasent to drive.

The final answer to this is really based on user defined expectations, budget and skills.

[smokey1275]

now that's some of the best news i've heard in this thread thus far, well said. fair comparison

[topshotta20]

who cud direct me to a 20 valve complete
transmission preferably

[Razkal]

^Seenath's in the bamboo i believe has a pair of blacktops wid tranny...
Intex ahs a Silvertop wid Gearbox.
dont haev the numbers off hand but easy to find in the directory

[Strauss]

thegtiman

The SC14 of the 1G will bolt on without problems? I thinking of going that route.

You have to make new connectors for the inlet and outlet as these fit in different locations in the 1GGZE motor. The bracket will have to be modified as well and it was very tight to fit if the car is a AE91 like what we had with the engine in place. Boost pressure goes up as you are now dealing with 1.4litres per rev from supercharger or more airflow. TMIC becomes a radiator and must be replaced with something more effiecent and mounted to the front.

Ahhh drama.
Forget that sh!t then.

I need to look for an aftermarket pully.

[Anton]

I'm looking for any > 165mm pulley in the Bamboo. Once i get one i'll get the centre machined to replace the stock crank pulley.