The comprehensive 4age thread

Postby **eliteauto** » October 25th, 2009, 10:58 pm

Advil wrote:
A172 wrote:how would the stock ecu know when nitrous is being injected into the engine and how would it know when to pull back timing, and how much?

...it just knows...

correct, pull timin, ecu hadda know when nitrous there :?:

de phoq

haydn28 · Postby **haydn28** » October 25th, 2009, 11:27 pm

corollalover101 wrote:
Advil wrote:
A172 wrote:how would the stock ecu know when nitrous is being injected into the engine and how would it know when to pull back timing, and how much?

...it just knows...

correct, pull timin, ecu hadda know when nitrous there de phoq

using a stock ecu:

for 4age u set d distributer to a low value like 10deg then use high octane leaded fuel . use a wet shot though , using a kit like ZEX u shud have almost the correct amt of fuel to nitrous ratio using the ZEX jettings.

how do i know ? well i had a ZEX kit when i had a 4efe back in d day.
:twisted:

good luck cl101 . take my advice and use a management though, and tune using a wideband , and go by a tuner who has experience in N2O tuning

Postby **Hook** » October 25th, 2009, 11:36 pm

good advice on the wideband and an experienced n2o tuner, but that's nothing ppl don't already know

waiting on more detail about jet size, injector flow rate and duty cycle, as pertains to wet shot and dry shot applications, reciprocating mass and window switches for progressive spray...technical conversation from the guys who've tried it

all I hearing is pull timing, small injector 1.3L ole talk and kit brands...nothing of any real value *yawn*

haydn28 · Postby **haydn28** » October 26th, 2009, 12:18 am

^^^ buy ah kit it have all the instructions in it :twisted:

Postby **Hook** » October 26th, 2009, 12:32 am

never mind, Hayden...never mind...

haydn28 · Postby **haydn28** » October 26th, 2009, 12:49 am

Hook wrote:never mind, Hayden...never mind...

u have me thinkin bout Nirvana now :shock:

Postby **Hook** » October 26th, 2009, 7:42 am

I'm disappointed that after all the ole talk and self praise about your tune and what you supposedly know, that you're skirting around this topic.
Quite simply, if you don't know, just say so. No need to be a dick about it.

honda hoe · Postby **honda hoe** » October 26th, 2009, 10:04 am

bottles are for babies

:pokes:

haydn28 · Postby **haydn28** » October 26th, 2009, 12:01 pm

Hook wrote:good advice on the wideband and an experienced n2o tuner, but that's nothing ppl don't already know

waiting on more detail about jet size, injector flow rate and duty cycle, as pertains to wet shot and dry shot applications, reciprocating mass and window switches for progressive spray...technical conversation from the guys who've tried it

all I hearing is pull timing, small injector 1.3L ole talk and kit brands...nothing of any real value *yawn*

what is the objective of cl101's nos project? isn't his objective is to use the stock ecu?

hook let me spoon feed u :

using a dry shot u are advised to use a engine management so you can control the injectors . you are not advised to cross 80% duty cycle but it can be done for short periods.

assuming that the 4age comes with 295cc injectors , thats good for up to 236 bhp gasoline tuned. how ever when tuning N2O u have to run rich ratios so the 295cc might max out @ 200bhp, tuning dependant.

the 2nd purpose is to trim timing to prevent detonation.

you can use your management to do a progressive spray , . every time your foot lifts from the throttle , u pulse more nitrous in , so in 1st gear u might want a 20hp, 2nd ..40hp and so on. it looked like u googled a carb application before u posted

as for reciprocating mass , obviously u dont want to bend a rod, so dont over rev, research the speed limit for ur rod. for a 4efte for example u can rev to 8krpm safely , but its advisable to kill power slightly at a high reciprocating mass by over fueling .

for a stock ecu application , (wet shot), the jet sizes differ depending on the shot selected . soo its up to u to be disciplined in not overdoing it and as i said:

there are the instructions in the kit, even your mango tree mech can install a wet kit in 2 hours :lol:

A172 · Postby **A172** » October 26th, 2009, 1:46 pm

haydn28 wrote:
Hook wrote:good advice on the wideband and an experienced n2o tuner, but that's nothing ppl don't already know

waiting on more detail about jet size, injector flow rate and duty cycle, as pertains to wet shot and dry shot applications, reciprocating mass and window switches for progressive spray...technical conversation from the guys who've tried it

all I hearing is pull timing, small injector 1.3L ole talk and kit brands...nothing of any real value *yawn*

what is the objective of cl101's nos project? isn't his objective is to use the stock ecu?

hook let me spoon feed u :

using a dry shot u are advised to use a engine management so you can control the injectors . you are not advised to cross 80% duty cycle but it can be done for short periods.

assuming that the 4age comes with 295cc injectors , thats good for up to 236 bhp gasoline tuned. how ever when tuning N2O u have to run rich ratios so the 295cc might max out @ 200bhp, tuning dependant.

the 2nd purpose is to trim timing to prevent detonation.

you can use your management to do a progressive spray , . every time your foot lifts from the throttle , u pulse more nitrous in , so in 1st gear u might want a 20hp, 2nd ..40hp and so on. it looked like u googled a carb application before u posted

as for reciprocating mass , obviously u dont want to bend a rod, so dont over rev, research the speed limit for ur rod. for a 4efte for example u can rev to 8krpm safely , but its advisable to kill power slightly at a high reciprocating mass by over fueling .

for a stock ecu application , (wet shot), the jet sizes differ depending on the shot selected . soo its up to u to be disciplined in not overdoing it and as i said:

there are the instructions in the kit, even your mango tree mech can install a wet kit in 2 hours

oh snapz

Postby **Hook** » October 26th, 2009, 2:26 pm

Very good. NOW we're getting somewhere. But next time, keep your feelings out of it. This is supposed to be informative, not about scoring an ass-pat from your buddy.

But as we're onto spoonfeeding now. Please elaborate on the use of progressive spray in wetshot applications as per rpm on the stock ECU, and why (if at all) it's important for the ECU to "know" (according you u and Mills) when you squeeze.
And I'm not talking pulling jet sizes and numbers out of thin air. Is there a relationship as to what can be applied for the different rpm ranges?
And why not just use a nitrous controller?

Why I'm harping on this, is because I'm assuming you're vehemently opposed to using the stock ECU based on a bad/disappointing experience, having tried both ways. So it would be interesting to hear of it. Share the wealth whydontcha.

A172 · Postby **A172** » October 26th, 2009, 2:55 pm

I think 1hb was talking bout using the management for a dryshot as opposed to the wetshot where u might just get away with retarding the timing@ teh dizzy( I dunno, I see he bold 'dry' up there)....but of course he can confirm

but plain talk bad manners

why the opposition against a basic management, be it wet or dryshot?

how much power you think you can realistically(and reliably) make with just retarding timing at the dizzy?

thaz why I'm so impressed with Purple's 20v.....man eh front and spen he morney on the E6X when he did his project, same wetshot...did his time, engine lives..

time to get serious fellas :arrow:

Postby **eliteauto** » October 26th, 2009, 3:11 pm

@ getting serious, is all this posturing necessary to get ppl to give opinions and share experiences/info here? Get a fleshlight......seriously

honda hoe · Postby **honda hoe** » October 26th, 2009, 3:16 pm

allyuh doh get tired? :roll:

A172 · Postby **A172** » October 26th, 2009, 3:23 pm

^werd

Postby **Hook** » October 26th, 2009, 3:35 pm

imagine all dat abuse hadda pass before any kind of meaningful discussion could take place with these big "experienced" tuners/racers...I go humble and take mih picong oui, is really for the benefit of the forum

Postby **eliteauto** » October 26th, 2009, 3:38 pm

honda hoe, you have anything meaningful to contribute or you just here for the tech posts?

honda hoe · Postby **honda hoe** » October 26th, 2009, 3:40 pm

corollalover101 wrote:honda hoe, you have anything meaningful to contribute or you just here for the tech posts?

+1

A172 · Postby **A172** » October 26th, 2009, 3:41 pm

TRDcorolla · Postby **TRDcorolla** » October 28th, 2009, 11:54 pm

this thread sort of spark some thinking...dispite 90% full of useless sheit...

http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/pro ... ts_id=1038

Postby **eliteauto** » October 30th, 2009, 10:00 am

^^once you get your stuff sorted out, that kit should be fun

Advil · Postby **Advil** » October 30th, 2009, 4:13 pm

honda hoe wrote:bottles are for babies

how so?

honda hoe · Postby **honda hoe** » October 31st, 2009, 9:43 am

its an expression

like "if u ain't blowin u ain't goin"

doh take it to heart :wink:

kidzz · Postby **kidzz** » October 31st, 2009, 4:05 pm

i'm thinking start out small first. you can upgrade the whole intake system, then look at the exhaust system. wanna go further, deal with ecu management, cam profiles and fuel systems before introducing a turbocharger kit. this probably seems unpractical since it is a 1587cc engine. the most hp i've ever heard come out of it was 217 hp so, you can try that. bless

josh.dookie · Postby **josh.dookie** » November 4th, 2009, 11:09 am

Lol @ corollalover, seen the car around,decent looking ride man, boosted u guys say.. Interesting...

sadique · Postby **sadique** » November 8th, 2009, 12:02 am

very interesting :!:

turbohead · Postby **turbohead** » November 8th, 2009, 11:05 am

not boosted, jus as you see is the nitrous. small ting car works nice... he might be tinkin of goin turbo

branz · Postby **branz** » December 8th, 2009, 9:17 pm

WTB a bigger fuel rail for my 20valve engine and also do u need a management system for the increase of fuel or the stock brain cod be tuned for this!