The comprehensive 4age thread

[Zeriam]

What model toyo u got the bt in?

[Aarong420]

Weight will be a prob, youll definately need stiffer performance springs and shocks atleast. brakes will be a plus too ...
I wouldnt think youll get oversteer cuz its FWD, if anything youll get lots of torque steer or understeer if u mash too much around a corner. LSD is always an option.
I was also going to do this conversion in my hatchback rolla, but the original engine died earlier than expected, so with no funds, i had to settle for the 20V for the while. Also alot of fabrication is needed to put in the 3S, and youll need the MR2 LSD GB. Not sure what axles are used.
About the aftermarket ECU for the BT, look around and see what options the different brands offer, see which ones meet your needs. do some research on the net.

[gt4tified]

wazs up, am a new blacktop owner20v, and i had trouble in deciding beteen the 3sgte..why i didnt go with the 3s was the weight only later on i learnt that it was not much of an issue..Is that true to you guys who have 3s in AE101? is there oveersteering?

I also need some help in geting a ECU for my blacktop any ideas from any one was thinking bout the brand "Freedom" or Moteck

The weight issue with the 3s is not about oversteer or understeer but really traction....even with that heavy arse engine, due to the torque it produces (2nd gen makes 275 to the wheels) you need to properly tune your suspension to put that power to the ground.

The conversion issues that Aarong420 spoke about could easily be rectified if one gets an entire GT4 front half and with it the spindles, axles etc.

Re: the blacktop ecu, save your money and just go with an inexpensive piggyback like the emanage ultimate, do a nice valve job and port/polish the head and you'll make plenty power with good air-flow.

[Aarong420]

^^, true....an after market ecu isnt all that necessary for a stock BT. The E-Manage will do just fine and it's half the price.

4tified....whats the price of a GT4 front half these days?...and if I where doing this conversion in an AE90 hatchback "like in my 2NRides" would the parts needed for the conversion bolt up on my chassis? Or are you talking about converting the entire front half?

[corolladude]

UR NOT D ONLY 1

[gt4tified]

^^, true....an after market ecu isnt all that necessary for a stock BT. The E-Manage will do just fine and it's half the price.

4tified....whats the price of a GT4 front half these days?...and if I where doing this conversion in an AE90 hatchback "like in my 2NRides" would the parts needed for the conversion bolt up on my chassis? Or are you talking about converting the entire front half?

The conversion would not bolt up...you'd need all the 3sgte (celica not mr2) mounts, crossmember, axles, spindles, suspension and a damn good conversion mechanic....if the axles and spindles don't line up properly you be changing axles like drawz...just ask marcus!

The fabrication would not however involve cutting firewall or the nose brace. I don't know exactly the price of a front cut but an engine with suspension, crossmember etc should be in the range of $9-15k depending on the generation.

Doh even ask about the price of the caldina gt4 3sgte.....but I still hoping to hit a cash pot one day!

[toyotatilidye]

ok well since i got the black already think i will play around with that for the while

Doh even ask about the price of the caldina gt4 3sgte

that is a power house especilly with a front or rear wheel application

i got the black in an AE101, [ with a manual box from a silver with a ecu from an automatic

^^, true....an after market ecu isnt all that necessary for a stock BT. The E-Manage will do just fine and it's half the price.

was planning to turbo eventually so am looking around for parts the ecu, camshafts, cam gears and connecting rods seem to be the hardest to fine. PRICE is a killer!

If anyone has a 4agze set of connecting rods to sell say somtin.
For you guys looking for a 3s with 6speed RWD box i think "seenath" in the bamboo has one of the IS, not sure if sold though.
Would love to see one in a Ke70..

[Aarong420]

If your looking for GZE rods, remember the silvertop rods and GZE rods are the same, only the pistons are different. Shouldnt be to hard to find them.

If your going to be fully modding the BT, then i guess the aftermarket ECU would be nice to have. 20 Titanium valves later, and weeeeee!!!!!

[gt4tified]

If your looking for GZE rods, remember the silvertop rods and GZE rods are the same, only the pistons are different. Shouldnt be to hard to find them.

If your going to be fully modding the BT, then i guess the aftermarket ECU would be nice to have. 20 Titanium valves later, and weeeeee!!!!!

And the 4agze aftermarket pistons are easy to source. I'd say that you could still just keep the stock ecu, use an emanage for now and when you turbo, just add an safc II or something similar.

In my experience, as long as you don't have the cash to go balls-out and get everything done one time, do everything in stages.....the emanage and safc etc keep their re-sale value as long as you keep them in good condition.

[Strauss]

If your looking for GZE rods, remember the silvertop rods and GZE rods are the same, only the pistons are different. Shouldnt be to hard to find them.

You sure of that, right? Cuz I almost f--ked up my engine.

[toyotatilidye]

which one you guys seen beat one another already
a altezza or IS with a beams 2.0 6FWD against a corolla with a black top20v stock vs stock

[Zeriam]

ent the beams is turbo if so then how a 1.6 na will beat a turbo?

[Aarong420]

Well i havent held them side by side, but everyone ive talked to, who are very reliable sources, in UK, australia and new zealand, all say the same, so i see no reason to dought them.

Why do you ask, and why do you say you almost fcuked up your engine?

[Zeriam]

i just trying to get a rough figure for complete swap for my car.
i know a black top with tranny might run me close to 8k but all the work needed after what cost i looking at and would it even be possable to be done in 2weeks?

[eliteauto]

2 weeks? more than possible, if the mech was dedicating full time to your swap it could be done in a week, as to cost for the install, that would be dependant on the mech and whether the job is being done in house or if the install and wiring were being done by different persons a safe budget is 4K which should leave you with some change for the brake swap ( you are upgrading brakes right?)

[Zeriam]

i want to do all the base work 1st suspenstion then brakes but the engine swap i'll really need it done quickly cause i'm in sales and its my life line

[smokey1275]

the silver top engine is the better one to shoot for , cause balck top are 1. a little rare and 2. parts are different i.e. some of the electronics maybe a little hard to get.

[eliteauto]

I agree with the silvertop suggestion, Mahadeos has one with tranny for 6K

[gt4tified]

The Altezza beams is non-turbo 3s-ge 2.0l 4 cylinder (IS 200).

I would say that would be a definite close match-up with a good working 20valve.

Where you race is also important...one is FWD and the other RWD.

[Zeriam]

well then ST it will be but the brake upgrades what has to be done talk to meh people things to be done and i'd like to do it

[ribs]

i want to do all the base work 1st suspenstion then brakes but the engine swap i'll really need it done quickly cause i'm in sales and its my life line

i into sales too...so i understand where yuh comin from!
i did the same swap in my car and it took 3 days..old engine came out and the 20v went in the first day..including weilding the p/s lines...second day wiring and the car was starting/driving...third day muffler in the morning and vacum and regas a/c in the evening..and never had any problems after..just make sure and plan yuh things in order!!
(and this swap was done in my AE101..20vtranny..which will fit the same way in your car)!
GOOD LUCK!!

[Zeriam]

theres hope for me yet

[droppa]

a ae101 and ae80 are 2 different cars, ae80 comes with 3a-u and ae101 comes with 4a-fe, there will most likely have to be some bracket modification to do Zeriam seeing that the 20v is a 4a motor made for the newer toyota chassis, the two week down time is a good period, take yuh time and dont overlook anything....

if allyuh cud do this in three days then u all shud be on overhaulin

[gt4tified]

a ae101 and ae80 are 2 different cars, ae80 comes with 3a-u and ae101 comes with 4a-fe, there will most likely have to be some bracket modification to do Zeriam seeing that the 20v is a 4a motor made for the newer toyota chassis, the two week down time is a good period, take yuh time and dont overlook anything....

if allyuh cud do this in three days then u all shud be on overhaulin

^^^I'm glad you beat me to it droppa....there will definitely be some fittment mods required.

Zeriam, I suggest you take a couple of days off as well to oversee the conversion and make sure the mech not playing de arse. Some ah dem does stick like dey charging by de length of time yuh car in dey garage.

I also recommend the silvertop as it is not as heavy on fuel as the blacktop and if you want to put a turbo later on....yuh in order!

[Zeriam]

i already have a 4a-c in my car already but i dont think that would make a diff.
but 1st i hadda deal with suspenstion right now the cradle bushing bolts is eat bushings in 3-6 months it seems so i need to get some bolts any1 know where i could find some without having to take out the bolts?

[Hook]

nah pallie, u cyar really walk into a hardware and buy steel bolts for your application just by eyeballing it...so, unless u know someone with an AE80 to scrap, u'll hafta take down your bolts...maybe even carry a bushing to offer it up and make sure the bolt not dancing inside it

[Anton]

^^Ditto there. You can try Lotec machine shop in orange grove. They stock a WIDE variety of bolts pallie.

[Zeriam]

spleen well after buying some stuff to do the car i broke already i'll see how long it last

[Hook]

^^^ ah kno d story all too well...tranny hadda change again dis weekend and ah need back shocks

[corolladude]

hummmmmi saw zeriam lookin for bolts!