Group 1600cc Battle

[MaelstroM]

I doh understand how a b16a does beat a 20v stock for stock.
I drove a 2 dr civic with a b16a in canada and i drive a corolla with a 20v BT here. the 20v FEELS faster IMO. I dont kno which is faster since of course I could not race them side by side.
Down here, I does beat up every b16a i run with a stock BT 20V, all I have is that I run open throttles and I put on a sti scoop to feed cold air directly into them. As far as I could tell, that never raised hp but kept the hp constant right thru.
Plenty of the b16a's that give me trouble is because they in lighter vehicles. Just the other day I run a b18c5 in a old model integra and I getting beat by one single car length at the end of 4th. I had a 270lb passenger and he was alone, and my car is an ae100, which is heavier. So I really dont know nah. Back when I had a stock ST I ran in drags and get kill by every honda there but I was trapping speeds the same as them, traction was just pretty poor for me, or I cya drive , or both.
I will admit that i cannot beat a b16b, i ran one in a civic hatchback and that walks away from the BT, but then y can I run a b18c5? I not sure about the factory hp ratings for these cars AT ALL.
I am not a TOyota fan, I am a car fan. SO win or lose, I always try my best to ask the person what they have, mods etc. I never have any bad-mind to the other person if I lose and all that crap. It is all to one end, education. And so far, no b16a ever prove to me to be have more hp than a st20v, much less a bt20v. I have no doubt some could be faster since they in lighter cars but that is a next story.
I guess that is y I subscribing to this thread and test, and I want to take part, I guess just to see for myself.
Anyone who have a b16a that wukkin feel free to give me a shout and we could organise sumtin.
And say what u want, NO comparable engine could EVER sound like a 20v with open throttles....tell me i lie.
Later guys.

[FullStop]

if is one thing, honda men real loyal, and most likely, u get licks cus is a hatch, real light, i really feel in the 1.6 department , the 20v is the most scaleable, theoretically as well, you should see the best increase in performance among all 1.6's with bolt-ons on the 20v...

[Zeriam]

can a 20v beat a 1.5 cvt 3stage vtech??

[Krakkle]

can a 20v beat a 1.5 cvt 3stage vtech??

3 stage......4 stage...... whatever......

Although the CVT implies near perfect gear ratios / selection, it won't outrun a manual 20V. ....... while the CVT is "winding up" ...... the Slowyota would jump ahead.

A fairer fight would be against a 20v w/auto tranny

[Zeriam]

guess i was on thE right track to shut my friend up with his 3stage. i'd reAlly likE to make him eAt some toyota dust from a 20v

[FullStop]

am, you all do know that cvt is sheit right, i hope u all also know that 3 stage vtec is for economy right, dont tell me not even the honda men know that, 20v will kill im dead , then it go dig im up and kill im again,,,den the 20v will pee on he grave juss to make a point..fella, i take d cvt wit a 1.6 mazda 3, so be real, d 20v ,well u read above right...

[TRD_FACTORY]

I will look for the link I saw that compared the mivec (4g92), corolla (4ag20v), civic (b16a) and miata (b6). They were tested in circuit, drags and solodex. The corolla didn't win any of the stages but was the best performing car overall. The b16a did win the drags at around 15.8.sec The 20v was around 16.1

[Zeriam]

ghostbusters,i just asking cause i does get talk from a civic man about how much suspected 20v he run and eat on the highway, i just want 1 20v to wuk he socks.

[FullStop]

well, like i said, honda men loyal, they aint go accept defeat so, but at least a few of them know their business, and in the above comparison that TRD factory looking into, the miata with the b6 is not necessarily the best choice to compare with those big boys there, the B6 is a sohc engine, the zl-ve which is a 1.5 with s-vt dohc is higher revving and also its output is higher, that might be a better comparison, i suspect however that the miata would still do well as it is light and very agile, , , , , , "suspected 20v" was that, he must be mad, what he feel, every corolla he pass (while they not actually racing) is a 20v?, i hear about a fella wit a stock nissan aad-wagon talkin about how he does eat civics and everything else on d highway too, but wha you go do? dese are what we call loyalists, aka blind followers

[shinaka]

this is a good link on 4ag

http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Inf ... _tech_note

[Zeriam]

the plan is to mash him in with my 20v soon as i install it and shut him up.

i does give him a good run with my current motor on the main road just not on thE highway. i doh evEn try

[rjaggs]

allyuh fellas shoulda come dex last sunday and see dem runx's put down some best times thru d circuit

imo dex is an excellent way to test the all round performance of any car, esp d competence of the driver

[smokey1275]

well, like i said, honda men loyal, they aint go accept defeat so, but at least a few of them know their business, and in the above comparison that TRD factory looking into,

the miata with the b6 is not necessarily the best choice to compare with those big boys there, the B6 is a sohc engine, the zl-ve which is a 1.5 with s-vt dohc is higher revving and also its output is higher, that might be a better comparison, i

suspect however that the miata would still do well as it is light and very agile, , , , , , "suspected 20v" was that, he must be mad, what he feel, every corolla he pass (while they not actually racing) is a 20v?, i hear about a fella wit a stock nissan aad-wagon talkin about how he does eat civics and everything else on d highway too, but wha you go do? dese are what we call loyalists, aka blind followers

Dude , the B6 has a twin cam version Na as well eh

[tte]

The only reason the 20v gettin lix by b16a's down here is our sheit gas. The 20v needs the full 100 octane to really perform. Go look online, i saw a best motoring clip with a stock civic b16 vs a levin bzr in japan and the levin beat the civic in the quarter, but thats in japan. The b16 is a monster thow, and it has been modified in so many ways by so many tuners, i doubt modification wise a 20v will keep up after the stock point. Too many parts available for the hondas.

[shinaka]

the 20v blacktop is an N/A beast caged behind the stock ECU....a standalone would work wonders with raised rev limit to about 10,00 rpm and supporting fuel and ignition upgrades on stock engine and N/A B16's will fear you....

[FullStop]

i recommend for whenever you fellas decide to race, keep a bottle of NOS octane booster, that coupled with premium should be able to get you up to a hundred octane...and an AEM FIC will have the fuel and ignition timing nice...plus it make se of vvti, so blacktops will be dangerous on d road..., i still believe that das one of the best engines ever, b16 cant touch the technology in a blacktop 20v

[mitsu]

Again,,

I'm a car fan not a honda hoe ...

Just face it nah, a b16a in a civic 4dr or 3dr will out run a 4age..


4age is a sweet engine (it must be stated).
I'm just getting a lil annoyed when you guys make claims with out any sort of evidence.

Like I said before when I had my SIR ,I caught at least 3 corolla's with 4age and put it them.

Peace ...

[Zeriam]

noticE u not saying which modEl corolla with thE 20v's an where u catch theM. btw what u driving now?

[Hook]

i recommend for whenever you fellas decide to race, keep a bottle of NOS octane booster, that coupled with premium should be able to get you up to a hundred octane...

with our "Premium"(which is like a hydrocarbon link away from being plain old yak piss), it's hardly likely you'll throw a few ounces of anything to make whole tank of gas 100RON from the supposed 95RON they claim it to be...from time to time, mines still pings like crazy on premium with a couple bottles of 0-60 (or STP 104+, or 108+, or Wynn's Spitfire, or whatever else..I've tried most of the locally available ones) in the tank....which leads me to two conclusions
1. the actual octane is prolly much lower than stated
2. the quality of the gas is inconsistent (I fill at the same station all the time)

here are a couple things I found:

here's a little something on octane and octane boosters
here's a brief comparison of different boosters

[FullStop]

yeah, i take back that fuh real, it go take some serious business to get proper fuel in a 20v, but mitsu man what we saying is that from a technological standpoint the 20 v is better, and i not sure, but i figure if u throw equally large sums of money into a b16a and a 20v, the 20 v will win

[smokey1275]

As far as development goes the honda B engine has been out since the late 80's and the 4AGe has been out since the early 80's (at least in the 16valve configuration) >Honda and its tunning shops have developed and raced many B powered cars from then to now. The 16valve 4age has been tried and tested up to the formula atlantic spec of 240 hp but there are alos full race honda B engines around that power .the 20V has had little development since its onset only two revsions from 2nd gen silver to black top. Of course it takes both good working knowledge of engines and a good driver to exact performance from a setup point of view ,each engine has its pluses and minuses>. the B16B motor has more Hp than the 20V but far less torque

[TRD_FACTORY]

I have had my 4age since 2001 in my ae80 and I'll say without reservation it is the best balanced 1600cc EFI twin cam engine ever produced!!! Before purchasing the engine I did 4months of research! The 4ag was developed in 1983!! imagine 1983 technology still beating most modern 1600cc's !! The honda came after in the late 80's to build there famous b16, an engine that I'm sure that had similar internal sizing to the 4ag. The b16 has a vtec system that has two sets of camshafts one for low rpm and the other for high! And this system gives the engine a broad high output band (having the best of two worlds). IF you match a non-vtec 1600cc to a 4age it licks hands down, but with the vtec the honda will win (in a drag). The 20v system just advances the cam!!, if toyota when producing the 20v (in 1991) adopted such a system we wouldn't be having the comparison that has been going on for ages between honda and toyota men! What I'm getting at is if you compare fairly ,1600cc+efi+twincam ,4ag is the best ever built!!!, not 1600cc+efi+twincam+vtec

[smokey1275]

ditto