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Budget 6.5/ Now car audio advice thread

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X_Factor
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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby X_Factor » October 23rd, 2021, 8:27 pm

These y12 wingroad door design is sooo stupid
Damaged some of the mounting tabs for the master switch when removing it since i had no clue how to take them off and now
where it slots into the door card and now i get some crazy buzzes when i crank it up

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Brian Steele » October 23rd, 2021, 9:54 pm

timelapse wrote:100 hz sub im guessing.
In the process of tuning still, so no curves for my system just yet.
Just a question, I have tweeters on my dash.What frequency should I highpass at.I currently have them at 2k Hz


At the moment, there's two filter settings on both the subwoofer and the front speakers.

Subwoofer
=========
Amplifier: 120 Hz 24dB/oct low pass
Head Unit: 160 Hz 12dB/oct low pass

Front Speakers
==============
Amplifier: 70 Hz 12dB/oct high pass
Head Unit: 100 Hz 12dB/oct high pass

The filter points were chosen based on:
1. The raw measured response of the subwoofer and front speakers measured in-car
2. To limit power to the front speakers while still getting decent mid-bass up front.
3. To get as good phase tracking as possible between the sub the front speakers.

Note that electrically, none of them "match".

I still have a bit of work to do on the phase tracking as I'm getting some cancellation at 200 Hz, but I suspect that's due to the "bump" that shows up in the subwoofer's response in-car around that frequency. I really need to invest in a good DSP, LOL.

Too answer your question about the tweeters, basically the same (or similar) guidelines apply, i.e. filter frequency and slope should be chosen based on:
1. The tweeter's in-car response curve (and what you're trying to achieve)
2. To limit power at lower frequencies (don't want to blow the tweeter)
3. To get good phase tracking between the tweeter and the rest of your system.

That said, 2kHz sounds kind of low for a dash tweeter.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby timelapse » October 24th, 2021, 6:27 am

Brian Steele wrote:
timelapse wrote:100 hz sub im guessing.
In the process of tuning still, so no curves for my system just yet.
Just a question, I have tweeters on my dash.What frequency should I highpass at.I currently have them at 2k Hz


At the moment, there's two filter settings on both the subwoofer and the front speakers.

Subwoofer
=========
Amplifier: 120 Hz 24dB/oct low pass
Head Unit: 160 Hz 12dB/oct low pass

Front Speakers
==============
Amplifier: 70 Hz 12dB/oct high pass
Head Unit: 100 Hz 12dB/oct high pass

The filter points were chosen based on:
1. The raw measured response of the subwoofer and front speakers measured in-car
2. To limit power to the front speakers while still getting decent mid-bass up front.
3. To get as good phase tracking as possible between the sub the front speakers.

Note that electrically, none of them "match".

I still have a bit of work to do on the phase tracking as I'm getting some cancellation at 200 Hz, but I suspect that's due to the "bump" that shows up in the subwoofer's response in-car around that frequency. I really need to invest in a good DSP, LOL.

Too answer your question about the tweeters, basically the same (or similar) guidelines apply, i.e. filter frequency and slope should be chosen based on:
1. The tweeter's in-car response curve (and what you're trying to achieve)
2. To limit power at lower frequencies (don't want to blow the tweeter)
3. To get good phase tracking between the tweeter and the rest of your system.

That said, 2kHz sounds kind of low for a dash tweeter.
The 2 k is the highest setting on the head unit.Some time this week , I will set crossovers properly on the amp using a voltmeter, thinking around 4.5- 5 k because that's where my mids drop off.
Jah bless whoever invented the RTA

What type of enclosure is your sub in?
And type of vehicle?
For reference, my install is in a Honda fit hatch

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Brian Steele » October 24th, 2021, 10:31 am

timelapse wrote:What type of enclosure is your sub in?
And type of vehicle?
For reference, my install is in a Honda fit hatch


2007 Hyundai Tucson, two 12" Alpine Type Rs, mounted in a sealed enclosure in the spare tire well. That 200 Hz resonance is a real pain in the arse. I have to cut off the rear speakers @400 Hz to stop them from exciting it. As for the sub, looks like I have to cut it anywhere from 4 to 15 dB, depending on which x-over point I use.

I'm hesitant in spending more money in car audio on this car as it's about around about time for me to look to getting a replacement. And not many 6-in, 8-out high voltage output fairly cheap DSPs around.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that the choice of filtering / x-over points shouldn't be an arbitrary one, based on the size of the speaker. There are a few more things that need to be taken into consideration.

2021-PAB359-subwoofers.png

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby timelapse » October 26th, 2021, 6:31 am

As we on amps and crossovers, what's the typical crossover slope for an amp?

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby sMASH » October 26th, 2021, 8:14 am

Unless it's digital programmable, u will have to test to get the exact pint and slopes. As the minute tolerances in components, add up to not be exact to the stated specs.
Stated specs give u ball park figures, unless stated on a birth sheet.

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby timelapse » October 27th, 2021, 7:11 am

Steele, what rta curve do you aim for? I accustomed to the Harman curve sound so I tune for that

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Brian Steele » October 27th, 2021, 9:18 pm

timelapse wrote:Steele, what rta curve do you aim for? I accustomed to the Harman curve sound so I tune for that


I aim for something similar, with a couple dB more bass below 80 Hz. My car-audio system can sound good, but I won't really classify it as an "SQ" system. It's a smooth-sounding system which allows me to crank the bass on the days that I want to :-). It's probably because I don't consider it as a "real" SQ system that I haven't gone the full DSP route. I'm just using my 80PRS for tuning, and that's a bit like trying to shave with a carving knife....

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Ted_v2 » October 28th, 2021, 8:58 pm

timelapse wrote:
Ted_v2 wrote:I feel I hadda come up by rovin yes. My midbasses are junk. Cdt self. Have about 60rms per. Doors thick with mat. But idk how this sounding so.
How high you cutting them?


will post a screenshot tomorrow.

Rovin wrote:i feel like u didnt get to hear my doors play alone by itself at d sando sq event

anytime u around chaguanas come & i demo it for u , it will make u think about things differently ... :wink:


i heard the system, but def not the doors alone.

i need a refresh, sometimes its like My whole life is getting so busy, like where does the time go? i feeling to drop my van by a installer who knows what he's doing and pass back yes.

well kinda sorta, i just need some motivation and some help.

what day i was thinking to scrap my possible 3 way front and go with a two way active and done with that, buy something okish and refresh the whole install.

i hadda come chag soon yes, i not getting anything decent in south. I could get rell pro audio but noting decent sqish

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby rollingstock » October 28th, 2021, 9:25 pm

You shopping in the wrong place in south then.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby rollingstock » October 28th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Safe and sound have some great stuff.
Even triple r have some choices.

I'm living central now, haven't visited rovin yet. Afraid to, I don't need any more equipment but my pocket does scratch.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 28th, 2021, 10:14 pm

man if wasnt for covid all of us regular tuners on here could have held a friendly audio meet somewhere on a sunday afternoon & just listen to each others systems whether its simple or advance , SQish daily in car systems no wildman gallery thing

any of yall feel free to drop by my store , introduce yourselves & take a look around , its a 50-50 mix of reputable brands both sq & loud ... 8-)

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby kavaninho » October 29th, 2021, 12:09 pm

Rovin wrote:man if wasnt for covid all of us regular tuners on here could have held a friendly audio meet somewhere on a sunday afternoon & just listen to each others systems whether its simple or advance , SQish daily in car systems no wildman gallery thing

any of yall feel free to drop by my store , introduce yourselves & take a look around , its a 50-50 mix of reputable brands both sq & loud ... 8-)


Say the word! SQ events resumed in areas of the States and Canada earlier this year.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 29th, 2021, 1:41 pm

those places d vaccination rate is much higher here so their govt can allow it & ppl can chance it while here is only 25% or so

afaik public gatherings still not allowed here or u will have to go thru that whole safe zone headache bisnis & i feel it wont be allowed for a while since just a few days ago all ICU beds almost filled & number of new daily infections still spiking over 100 ... so i feel we all will still have to hold strain for a while

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby Jeremy09 » October 29th, 2021, 8:48 pm

fellassss...i rell like this trend eh, it make my car sound bess but back to the TOPIC at hand... meh uncle looking to buy the speakers this weekend. 3 speakers in mind, fital 6fe200, timpano md 6.5 or deafbounce sylvester 6.5. I know these can get pretty loud but he more interested in a tonal loud between 100-150rms. He looking to over 160hz to 2500hz with it. Which will work best in his doors, doors also deaden.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 29th, 2021, 9:46 pm

but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby timelapse » October 30th, 2021, 7:13 am

Rovin wrote:but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...


Based on my neighbor over de road, fellas using 10s for midbass on their back dash.But to answer the other fella, if that's what you looking for, go with the faital, or Xfire if you know team2lo2flo/fuzz. Dem xfire loud af with good tone.

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Jeremy09 » October 30th, 2021, 7:17 am

Rovin wrote:but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...
Nah nah. In my system i play with the eq a lil, i put it at 125hz,i downloaded a free rta app for my phone, i know that is anything but accurate,however i got a fair understanding of where my peaks are at when i played the pink noise and i reduced them a bit, sounding plenty better.
He more on the clean gallery side, not really the sq

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Jeremy09 » October 30th, 2021, 7:51 am

timelapse wrote:
Rovin wrote:but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...


Based on my neighbor over de road, fellas using 10s for midbass on their back dash.But to answer the other fella, if that's what you looking for, go with the faital, or Xfire if you know team2lo2flo/fuzz. Dem xfire loud af with good tone.
Those xfire looks good. Wonder how they compare to the fitals

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby timelapse » October 30th, 2021, 1:59 pm

Jeremy09 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Rovin wrote:but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...


Based on my neighbor over de road, fellas using 10s for midbass on their back dash.But to answer the other fella, if that's what you looking for, go with the faital, or Xfire if you know team2lo2flo/fuzz. Dem xfire loud af with good tone.
Those xfire looks good. Wonder how they compare to the fitals
Chalk and cheese.Xfire has both car speakers and pro audio speakers.I'd personally go with the car audio speakers.Unless you rather sounding like a mike man

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Jeremy09 » October 30th, 2021, 4:00 pm

timelapse wrote:
Jeremy09 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Rovin wrote:but u eh say if EQing solved ur issues

why cut so high at 160hz - mamoo eh like midbass in his music ? , if ur sub is playing from 80h down or even 100 thats a fair chunk of frequencies missing there

look at d response graph for each speaker then still ask for a demo from wherever u buying it from ...


Based on my neighbor over de road, fellas using 10s for midbass on their back dash.But to answer the other fella, if that's what you looking for, go with the faital, or Xfire if you know team2lo2flo/fuzz. Dem xfire loud af with good tone.
Those xfire looks good. Wonder how they compare to the fitals
Chalk and cheese.Xfire has both car speakers and pro audio speakers.I'd personally go with the car audio speakers.Unless you rather sounding like a mike man
Highly doubt all pro audio sounds like a mic lol there must be one that can equally get loud and sound great

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 30th, 2021, 7:24 pm

not to sound bias cause i selling it but ORION CTM6 sounds damn good

its not like a typical narrow range pro audio speaker but its a car audio speaker that sounds like a loud component & as though it has a tweeter & already been EQed , its that good

even though i also carry faital , ds18 & timpano , though they might be louder around midrange freqs but IMHO none sounds as nice as this orion

i invite anybody to come listen to it & report here if what i saying is true or not .... 8-)

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby hover11 » October 30th, 2021, 7:26 pm

Rovin wrote:not to sound bias cause i selling it but ORION CTM6 sounds damn good

its not like a typical narrow range pro audio speaker but its a car audio speaker that sounds like a loud component & as though it has a tweeter & already been EQed , its that good

even though i also carry faital , ds18 & timpano , though they might be louder around midrange freqs but IMHO none sounds as nice as this orion

i invite anybody to come listen to it & report here if what i saying is true or not .... 8-)
Compared to 18 sounds , how does it compete

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 30th, 2021, 7:42 pm

i used to sell 18sound long time but i remember how those sounded

opinions are always subjective but i would call those midrnage speakers, a bit harsh & voicey , very little midbass , if u like ur mids playing 400ish hz go up , well those loud like dat , more than orion ctm6

orion ctm6 has a much more wider range , sounds more natural & balanced imo

... i prefer fullness over loudness anyday

freq range :

18s : 200hz-8khz

orion : 81HZ - 15KHZ

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby timelapse » October 31st, 2021, 8:52 am

I forgot those orions yes.I get tusty when I saw the JL c2s and forgot everything else lol.
The Orions real good Jeremy.Go by Rovin and get a tour of the wall of sonic death.Better yet, walk with your uncle and whatever music he listens to.
Something else was on that wall that I was watching,but can't remember now.Did you have DB drive there too?

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby Rovin » October 31st, 2021, 10:45 am

i forget i have that db drive loud coax on d wall too yes ...

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby Ted_v2 » November 5th, 2021, 6:09 am

rollingstock wrote:You shopping in the wrong place in south then.

hadda be yes
IMG_3364.JPG

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby timelapse » November 5th, 2021, 10:28 am

How come you didn't time align your tweeters there Ted?

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Re: Budget 6.5

Postby kavaninho » November 5th, 2021, 12:40 pm

Ted_v2 wrote:
rollingstock wrote:You shopping in the wrong place in south then.

hadda be yes IMG_3364.JPG

The number for the TA used here is the difference from the furthest away driver? How you arrived at those figures?

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Re: Budget 6.5"

Postby timelapse » November 5th, 2021, 2:28 pm

That's how the pioneer app works Kavaninho.
You have to input the physical distance of all the speakers from the listening position.Deck does the calculation

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