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Np300 - SQ Install

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Brian Steele
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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Brian Steele » June 11th, 2021, 12:12 am

I'm guessing that since it's a van involved, there is probably no chance of someone being in the back seat, as there's no back seat :-).

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby kamakazi » June 11th, 2021, 2:13 am

Are you blocking off the cabin vents with the box and are there any drawbacks/advantages to doing that?

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 11th, 2021, 6:25 am

Rovin wrote:" techflex " is actually a brand name ppl casually use for braided sleeve like how ppl say scotch tape for any brand of clear tape ...
Lol ent! Strangely though, the first time I heard of it was by the name techflex and it stuck. Since then, been buying it on the FurryLetters Ebay store.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 11th, 2021, 6:36 am

Brian Steele wrote:I installed my Alpine PDX-F6 in a similar way. I oriented it so that the wires faced towards the front of the car though, Not only did that ensure that they wouldn't be disturbed by an errant foot from someone sitting in the back seat, the glow from the amps was a bit more visible and gives my otherwise stealth install a bit of pizazz.
I was going orient them with the control panels facing the rear seat, but didn't for 2 reasons.

When the front seat is all the way back (as it is normally) the wires would be visible and/or be more easily dislodged. This way it's almost invisible except from the side.

The second thing is imagine if the board was rotated 180 degrees, the fuses would not be easily accessible. If the amps only were rotated 180 degrees the power cable would have to cross all of the other cabling. Since I am using scrap wires, (removed from previous installs) I'm not sure of the noise rejection capability of these RCA's so I didnt want to take a chance.

Will most definitely make panels for the side, will probably make one for the back as well and attach the with magnets.
Last edited by Firewall on June 11th, 2021, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 11th, 2021, 6:48 am

kamakazi wrote:Are you blocking off the cabin vents with the box and are there any drawbacks/advantages to doing that?
Yes the cabin vents are blocked.

I dont think there are any advantages to doing so. I could have removed them and sealed the holes, but it would just be one more part to store safely.

From my understanding, the vents are supposed to equalise pressure in the vehicle when the doors are closing

The disadvantage I've been told is the doors would be a little harder to close (understandable) and the AC would work harder (dont quite see how)

When I was taping off the back, I was going to use some conduit to leave a channel for the air but I didnt because it would mean making another cutout on the side panel of the box and on the side of a vent.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 12th, 2021, 9:29 pm

Started to do the wiring for the speakers.
The tweeter wire is quite smaller, so i'm not sure which route I will go to wire those.
Online advice indicated to have both sides (male/female) connected when soldering to keep everything aligned.
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The stock headunit in our np300 sometimes completely freezes (no buttons works but audio continues playing) and will not work until power is cycled to the unit ( i.e. restarting the vehicle). To mitigate that i'm adding a switch that can power cycle the radio without restarting the van. Made a switch bypass as well to leave in the vehicle in case the switch fails.
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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Dave » June 12th, 2021, 9:55 pm

Wow had that happen once to a B17 sentra stock hu as well. I just left and it came back. Good idea on the independent switch.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby kavaninho » June 13th, 2021, 9:39 am

You are an over thinker like myself, making a bypass jumper for the switch. I doubt you'll ever need it though.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 18th, 2021, 7:28 pm

kavaninho wrote:You are an over thinker like myself, making a bypass jumper for the switch. I doubt you'll ever need it though.
True, but I will still keep it in the vehicle in case.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 18th, 2021, 7:35 pm

So I got through with a couple of things today. The wires are run to the dash and to the doors.
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The switch is installed.
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The doors strangely only have a 6" hole for the 6x9 speaker. I traced out the ring to hold the 8". Will cut it out and see how the fitment goes, and how much metal needs to be cut.
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The dash locations will require a bit of modification for the speaker to fit. I want to connect the speakers to test before doing any dash modifications. This way I will decide if it would be worth the effort to modify.
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Hopefully I don't have to cut any metal to get the depth required.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Firewall » June 19th, 2021, 8:53 pm

Cut out the rings and the mounting plate today. Cut 2 extra rings in case i need the extra clearance.
It is cut out of 3/4" ply scrap. Its not void free birch, but it doesn't look like junk either.
Will coat with fiberglass resin once its ready to be installed.
Its a 2 piece design. I didnt stick them together in case anything needs to reposition when installed.
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Will tackle widening the door speaker hole tomorrow.
Any ideas on the easiest/quickest way to do this is appreciated. Thinking dremel with cut off disc, or tin snips (if i could find them)

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby SR » June 20th, 2021, 7:29 am

The regular dremel cutoff discs tend to break easy if too much pressure or wrong angle is applied. There is a thicker one that you will need. Its about 3 times the thickness of the standard discs

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby kavaninho » June 20th, 2021, 7:58 am

The dremel will give the neatest cut when completed, but as SR said you may shatter a few discs easily. The key is to go slow and steady. When finished, you can use one of the grinding stone attachments to finish up the edges.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Rovin » June 20th, 2021, 10:51 am

if u have a compressor & airsaw that wud be great

jigsaw with metal cutting blade can work too ...

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby sMASH » June 20th, 2021, 11:58 am

jig saw, metal blade, lil thin oil. i cant do that dremel thing.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Brian Steele » June 20th, 2021, 1:00 pm

I used to build my door speaker adapters out of wood - until I discovered what moisture does to them.

Now I use a plastic wood substitute called "starboard" that's available from most marine stores. It's a bit expensive and will likely have to be screwed in place because most glues can't seem to stick to it (so, no chance in using it to build a box, LOL), but it works very well for the purpose.

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Re: Np300 tomfoolery

Postby Brian Steele » June 20th, 2021, 1:03 pm

Firewall wrote:Any ideas on the easiest/quickest way to do this is appreciated. Thinking dremel with cut off disc, or tin snips (if i could find them)


Depends on how much you have to remove. A Dremel with a grinder bit or even an ordinary electric drill with a grinding wheel may be all you need.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 20th, 2021, 6:35 pm

Ended up using the dremel with a fiberglass reinforced blade. Cleaned up the edges with the sanding drum attachment. turned out great.
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Thanks for all the other ideas, but I dont have an airsaw, and the idea of using the jigsaw in the door have me a little uneasy.

I have heard all the stories about moisture and mdf in car doors, and I usually use either HDPE (cutting board) or Lexan.
This time i needed to build up thickness quickly so I went with the thickest thing I had laying around, 3/4" scrap ply.
Additionally, 3/4" lexan is super expensive (material alone for this 2 stack ring would be about $700)
Also, I am personally not comfortable using hand tools to work that thickness lexan for any sort of precision. Last time I used it, I had access to a lathe and help from a very skilled machinist.

Test fitted them and they were bouncing on a piece of the door plastic. Sorted that out and now it fits.
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Took them back out and I glued and screwed them together and left them to dry overnight.
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Tomorrow the idea is to coat it with a couple of coats of resin to aid with moisture resistance.
Last edited by Firewall on June 20th, 2021, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Rovin » June 20th, 2021, 7:29 pm

cuts looking good

be sure to put metal primer on d bare metal & then paint it over too , rattle can spray paint will work ...

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 20th, 2021, 9:25 pm

Rovin wrote:cuts looking good

be sure to put metal primer on d bare metal & then paint it over too , rattle can spray paint will work ...


good thing you remind me about that. slipped my mind completely :oops:

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby VexXx Dogg » June 21st, 2021, 12:07 pm

Nice build!
long time i haven't seen a well documented project round these parts.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 22nd, 2021, 7:40 pm

The ring was fiberglassed for moisture resistance. Resin was NOT mixed hot to allow it to soak in (in theory)
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painted on the metal primer on the bare metal edges
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Started the sound deadening.
The inside of the door was done. It took about 1.5 sheets of dynamat.
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The metal surface where the speaker would be mounted (but inside the door cavity) was also done (cant really be seen in a pic)

Foam tape was applied to the ring before it was screwed into the door. Used a dull knife so its not pretty, but it will seal perfectly fine.
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The other part of the door was also done. Took approximately 1.5 sheets as well.
Vapor barrier was reinstalled.
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All metal was treated to approximately 90% and greater coverage. and some areas were covered a couple of times.

No panels were made to cover the holes, but deadener material was used. This is the same approach I used in the corolla and it worked.
If the woofer causes problems with this approach, I will fiberglass panels to replace.

Due to and weather and time commitments, I only got the passenger side door completed and wired up today.
The plastic door trim was left untreated presently as there is some thick fabric? jute? insulation there presently. If required, additional treatment will be done.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Rovin » June 23rd, 2021, 10:35 am

u rel zug up dat foam boi ..... :pokes: ........ :lol:

nice work doing d door skin & completely covering d inner metal with sound deadener

this is 1 thing dean & fernando never does that i cud never agree with cause according to them "in case u need to get into doors to service them" , 10yrs i never had reason to go into my doors to fix anything so why deny myself way better sound for "just in case" & its not hard to cut a hole in d deadener to access inside d door

now that d inner door has been completely been sealed off i doubt d vapor barrier is needed anymore ...

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 23rd, 2021, 8:39 pm

Rovin wrote:u rel zug up dat foam boi ..... :pokes: ........ :lol:
Boy, i was using that knife to cut the dynamat on the floor and the tip get real dull. :oops:
nice work doing d door skin & completely covering d inner metal with sound deadener
Thanks. The internets say the door HAS to be well prepped for the woofers. This is probably the best I could come up with
this is 1 thing dean & fernando never does that i cud never agree with cause according to them "in case u need to get into doors to service them" , 10yrs i never had reason to go into my doors to fix anything so why deny myself way better sound for "just in case" & its not hard to cut a hole in d deadener to access inside d door
Exactly
now that d inner door has been completely been sealed off i doubt d vapor barrier is needed anymore ...
Lol. I know, but tbh i find I cut it real neat so i wanted to save it :oops: :lol: :oops:

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 27th, 2021, 9:19 pm

So, I got the right side door completely deadened and the vapor barrier put back.
With the door skins back in place, and the window switches connected, I checked that the glass cleared the back of the speaker. It did.
So with all things considered, the JL ZR800-cw fits in the np300 doors with minor modifications.
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The main power and fuse holder was installed.
Will post that pic tomorrow

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 27th, 2021, 10:03 pm

The next step was to install test speakers.
For this I used the Faital Pro 3fe22 and the image dynamics xs-28 tweeters.
This is just to ensure that the processor works properly, as it has not been tested before (and was purchased used).
Everything turned on properly without any equipment damage.

This next bit is as much for me as for anybody reading. Hope I did it correctly.
Onto setting the gains all around.

First thing is to see at what volume the stock head unit clips. Out of 40, it clips at 29. After that it gets pretty terrible.
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This was done using 1000hz /0db, and 40hz/0db tracks

Now, any clipping (soft/hard) on the input of the mosconi causes it to shut off to protect the speakers. Also, I think it only accepts up to 4v input voltage, over which would also cause it to shutdown until the voltage is decreased.
(I understand what they wanted to do, but its a bit annoying sometimes.)

Testing the line drive of both the front and rear outputs from the radio.
The front was a bit higher than the rear (by about 0.6v)
Therefore in the mosconi input mixer, I used the front (channel 1 and 2) to drive all outputs, even though both front and rear were run from the stock headunit.

The line drive to the Mosconi from the headunit was 3.9v at volume 28 (even though 29 was unclipped, it was over 4v and caused the processor to protect) Therefore, 28 now becomes the max system volume.
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The input sensitivity of the alpine amps are 4v, and again because its analog, the nearest value I got was 3.8v.
I think the gains are matched nearly perfectly, because with the gain control all the way down (at zero) on the alpine amps, we get 21.74v output.
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So far everything seems okay.
There is one problem that I have to solve.
Since the headunit is not remote turning on/off the amps, there is a very audible thump when the vehicle is shut off. I think this is because the mosconi is connected directly to accessory power through the fz-1, and when the vehicle turns off, the processor turns off before the amps causing the thump.

Will take some pics tomorrow of the trial mid positions that I used for initial listening and also listening impressions
Last edited by Firewall on June 27th, 2021, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby nick639v2 » June 28th, 2021, 12:49 am

Had the same issue with my np300 install and an audio control dm608, I tapped off a blank ignition fuse in the box, I got the thump as well.. I just switched over to signal sensing feature to turn on and off the system.
It actually worked out better because the 2 secs it takes for it to sense the signal it didn't turn on during the acc phase on the push button start.

I just watching your doors and I get vex that I too lazy lol, I didn't do any prep to them and install the comps jusso smh.

Good work!!

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » June 28th, 2021, 7:54 am

nick639v2 wrote:Had the same issue with my np300 install and an audio control dm608, I tapped off a blank ignition fuse in the box, I got the thump as well.. I just switched over to signal sensing feature to turn on and off the system.
It actually worked out better because the 2 secs it takes for it to sense the signal it didn't turn on during the acc phase on the push button start.

I just watching your doors and I get vex that I too lazy lol, I didn't do any prep to them and install the comps jusso smh.

Good work!!
Hey, I am using the signal sensing and not getting a turn on pop, I am getting a turn off pop when the mosconi loses power.

Tbh, doing the first door was okay but it took a few days to make up my mind to do the second. Dont think I can do that again anytime soon.

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » July 10th, 2021, 8:18 am

So small update.

The turn off thump was resolved using a pac tr7. (Option 6). The remote output from the mosconi was delayed by 2 seconds to the amps and that did the job perfectly.

Just a couple of my observations:

The tr7 has to be one of the most versatile pieces of equipment I have ever seen. It takes a little bit of reading of the manual to understand what needs to be done.
Wire in a switch to help with programming of the unit.
Programming requires counting led flashes which may be a little problematic sometimes.

The fuzeblocks fz-1 is coming in very handy when requiring power for small accessories.

I used spray glue to stick the leatherette to the wood for the mounting board seen below. This was about 2 months ago. The edges have completely let go and need to be redone.

Image

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Re: Np300 - SQ Install

Postby Firewall » July 10th, 2021, 8:45 am

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So, I've been driving around like this for a couple weeks to get an idea of which orientation balances sound, visibility etc.

As stated before, I initially used the faital pro 3fe22 when initially powering on the system.

Just a couple of my views on that driver.
In this orientation, so far off axis, firing up at the dash, imo it was quite terrible. It sounded like your head was inside a mic funnel. Took massive eq to get it moderately presentable, but was never ideal.
This got drastically better when the driver was placed more on axis aimed between the front seats. At that point the driver really shone and sounded great. If I didnt have other system design goals I wouldn't have a problem using it

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