TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Subwoofer advise needed...

(I.C.E.)In Car Entertainment - Mobile Audio and Video

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
nervewrecker
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 22445
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:27 pm
Location: The world is fl4t

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby nervewrecker » January 2nd, 2020, 1:26 am

What nobody asked is what kind of bass you looking for and what you listen to.

care to enlighten us?

User avatar
jaithon
Street 2NR
Posts: 40
Joined: August 4th, 2013, 9:02 pm

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby jaithon » January 2nd, 2020, 8:33 am

rollingstock wrote:I have an idq8, works well in a small sealed enclosure. Very accurate but I like my wub wub wub.

The DD 200 series will work great also.100-300 rated. But only the newer redline if going sealed, has a bigger spider and more compliant soft parts than the previous models.

If you decide to sell the 8”, i’ll purchase it.

User avatar
X_Factor
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9401
Joined: April 27th, 2003, 5:54 pm
Location: St. Augustine
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby X_Factor » January 2nd, 2020, 9:18 am

i actually offered him my pair of ctx 08 -10 inch in the bassworx sealed enclosure for 900.00

User avatar
nervewrecker
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 22445
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:27 pm
Location: The world is fl4t

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby nervewrecker » January 2nd, 2020, 10:09 pm

X_Factor wrote:i actually offered him my pair of ctx 08 -10 inch in the bassworx sealed enclosure for 900.00


How did you like the sound of it?

Very good price btw, I think I paid around $450.00 for one when it was on sale.

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 3rd, 2020, 2:11 am

After trying all sorts of different designs in my cars, I've ended up coming back to simple sealed boxes for subwoofer duty. The boxes are smaller (small vented boxes end up either being tuned too high, or compromised because the vent is too small, resulting in the box's output audibly changing at higher volumes). I like the idea of going with a small sealed box, and don't get too hung up on the power rating (which at best is a wet-finger-in-the air marketing geek figure). Look for a driver with a low inductance (which suggests better motor design) and one that will give an FB/F3 around 50 Hz in the volume that you're planning to use it.

This is one that I've been eyeing for the longest while for use in an upgrade, but dammit, my 12" Alpine Type Rs refuse to quit! Aluminium cone, 700W power handling, can be used in a 0.5 cu.ft. sealed box, Fb around 50 Hz. Low Re - it basically hits all of the marks for me. And damn, it looks GOOD too, no gaudy car audio crap here.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... r--295-467

But, bear in mind that the distortion generated by this driver will be pretty low and it might sound entirely different to what you might be used to hearing from car audio systems. Many car audio guys don't know that the bass being generated by their system is actually comprised of lots of distortion generated by the use of low quality motors and soft parts in their car audio subs.

User avatar
VexXx Dogg
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 14674
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 10:23 am
Location: ☠☠☠

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby VexXx Dogg » January 3rd, 2020, 12:06 pm

Brian Steele wrote:After trying all sorts of different designs in my cars, I've ended up coming back to simple sealed boxes for subwoofer duty. The boxes are smaller (small vented boxes end up either being tuned too high, or compromised because the vent is too small, resulting in the box's output audibly changing at higher volumes). I like the idea of going with a small sealed box, and don't get too hung up on the power rating (which at best is a wet-finger-in-the air marketing geek figure). Look for a driver with a low inductance (which suggests better motor design) and one that will give an FB/F3 around 50 Hz in the volume that you're planning to use it.

This is one that I've been eyeing for the longest while for use in an upgrade, but dammit, my 12" Alpine Type Rs refuse to quit! Aluminium cone, 700W power handling, can be used in a 0.5 cu.ft. sealed box, Fb around 50 Hz. Low Re - it basically hits all of the marks for me. And damn, it looks GOOD too, no gaudy car audio crap here.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... r--295-467

But, bear in mind that the distortion generated by this driver will be pretty low and it might sound entirely different to what you might be used to hearing from car audio systems. Many car audio guys don't know that the bass being generated by their system is actually comprised of lots of distortion generated by the use of low quality motors and soft parts in their car audio subs.



0.5 CUFT sealed? Damn, this is a "holy grail" sub

User avatar
nervewrecker
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 22445
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:27 pm
Location: The world is fl4t

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby nervewrecker » January 3rd, 2020, 7:42 pm

But how is the output?

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 3rd, 2020, 9:31 pm

nervewrecker wrote:But how is the output?


Efficiency at low frequencies is largely a function of box size and "order", and peak SPL at those frequencies a function of the driver's linear excursion potential. A 12" driver with 12~14mm Xmax in a 0.5 cu.ft. box is not going to knock down any buildings, but it should be enough to enhance the low end of an SQ system.

My go-to these days is actually two good 12" drivers in a sealed enclosure. Doesn't take up much space and with enough power provides all the SPL that I want.

User avatar
nervewrecker
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 22445
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:27 pm
Location: The world is fl4t

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby nervewrecker » January 3rd, 2020, 9:58 pm

Brian Steele wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:But how is the output?


Efficiency at low frequencies is largely a function of box size and "order", and peak SPL at those frequencies a function of the driver's linear excursion potential. A 12" driver with 12~14mm Xmax in a 0.5 cu.ft. box is not going to knock down any buildings, but it should be enough to enhance the low end of an SQ system.

My go-to these days is actually two good 12" drivers in a sealed enclosure. Doesn't take up much space and with enough power provides all the SPL that I want.


This is something I have grown to like and desire.

The system is for me to listen to in my vehicle. Looking for decent thump, good low end response and can get decent loud inside.

Built a ported box for the image dynamics and will build a sealed to do a comparison on which I like. Trying 3 for sealed application and two for ported. The 3 will get a bit more power off the amp and its 50% more cone area vs the 2 that will see less power. Curious to how much of a difference it will make.

I have grown to like sealed enclosures but I looked at the response curve for the ported application and it shows a better low end response vs the sealed.

500 to 700 watts is good power for inside listening. Even the JBl P1224 gets pretty overwhelming sometimes.

User avatar
wheel whores
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 703
Joined: November 23rd, 2008, 7:24 pm
Location: on the slow lane

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby wheel whores » January 3rd, 2020, 10:45 pm

Brian Steele of the availability of subs locally and the ones I listed which would be the best in your opinion..... Still trying to see if I get a Rockford R1 but no luck yet....

User avatar
wheel whores
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 703
Joined: November 23rd, 2008, 7:24 pm
Location: on the slow lane

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby wheel whores » January 3rd, 2020, 10:47 pm

Ohh an I listen to all music once it sounds good....

User avatar
wheel whores
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 703
Joined: November 23rd, 2008, 7:24 pm
Location: on the slow lane

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby wheel whores » January 3rd, 2020, 10:49 pm

X_Factor wrote:i actually offered him my pair of ctx 08 -10 inch in the bassworx sealed enclosure for 900.00


Looking for one sub actually.... To maximize trunk room

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 4th, 2020, 12:27 am

Brian Steele wrote: Doesn't take up much space and with enough power provides all the SPL that I want.


I forgot one more thing - it allows me to carry other stuff in my car's trunk :-).

20170915-carsub1.jpg


The two 12s are actually mounted below all that crap in that image, in a fiberglass enclosure built into the car's spare tire well. The wooden grille above it was a temporary one that I was using until the stainless steel replacement was finished.

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 4th, 2020, 12:33 am

Rovin wrote:i used to run sealed enclosures alot long time & my advice [even though u say u want complimentary bass] is to get more than u think u need since sealed output is generally considerably lower than a ported . so if u think u need 150 go 300 if u need 300 go 500-600ish etc , doesnt mean u need to be running it max all d time as u can simply lower d sub output on ur deck


This is very, very good advice. I've got 1.2kW going to my two 12s in their sealed box. Turning it down when there's too much bass (like when the mother-in-law is visiting, LOL) is easy. Turning it up when your subwoofer is already at its limits leads to crappy sound and likely a blown subwoofer.

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 4th, 2020, 12:35 am

(duplicate post)

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 4th, 2020, 1:17 am

wheel whores wrote:Brian Steele of the availability of subs locally and the ones I listed which would be the best in your opinion


That's a toughie. I tend not to go by brand name but by technical specs, the more detailed the better. I purchased my current Alpine Type Rs on the basis of their Klippel results, supplied to me by someone who was working at Alpine at the time. The results showed that the motor strength varied only a little bit over a serious excursion range, which equates to low distortion, which was what I was looking for. If that's not available, then I'm looking for impedance curves which I can use to derive lesser-known parameters like the semi-inductance ones.

None of that is generally available for any car audio subwoofer :)

Even stuff like BL ( a measure of the driver's motor strength) and Le (inductance at 1kHz) is hard to come by some times. Le/Re is the ratio that I'm looking for. Lower is better.

FWIW, the BL of the RF P2 driver is around 14.3 Tm and an Le/Re of 1.12, based on some documentation I've come across on the 'net. In comparison, the PE driver that I linked to has a BL of 26.5 Tm and an Le/Re of 0.49. On paper it's a better driver. But the paper specs don't tell you everything - nothing beat good experience with the actual drivers, and I don't have experience with any of the other candidates listed here :).

If I HAD to choose from the ones listed however, I'd probably opt for the RF P2. There's no replacement for displacement, and that's a 12" driver with a 14mm rated Xmax.

User avatar
X_Factor
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9401
Joined: April 27th, 2003, 5:54 pm
Location: St. Augustine
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby X_Factor » January 4th, 2020, 10:54 am

wheel whores wrote:
X_Factor wrote:i actually offered him my pair of ctx 08 -10 inch in the bassworx sealed enclosure for 900.00


Looking for one sub actually.... To maximize trunk room

two 10 sealed is roughly a little more than 1 cube
one 10 or 12 ported needs more space than that

User avatar
wheel whores
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 703
Joined: November 23rd, 2008, 7:24 pm
Location: on the slow lane

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby wheel whores » January 4th, 2020, 3:52 pm

X_Factor wrote:
wheel whores wrote:
X_Factor wrote:i actually offered him my pair of ctx 08 -10 inch in the bassworx sealed enclosure for 900.00


Looking for one sub actually.... To maximize trunk room

two 10 sealed is roughly a little more than 1 cube
one 10 or 12 ported needs more space than that

It's a ek3 hatch

User avatar
rollingstock
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17226
Joined: June 29th, 2009, 8:21 am
Location: Ain't got no chill!

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby rollingstock » January 4th, 2020, 4:19 pm

You need something like this
https://youtu.be/AMd_9Lprr2s

User avatar
nervewrecker
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 22445
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:27 pm
Location: The world is fl4t

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby nervewrecker » January 4th, 2020, 10:46 pm

Brian Steele wrote:
Rovin wrote:i used to run sealed enclosures alot long time & my advice [even though u say u want complimentary bass] is to get more than u think u need since sealed output is generally considerably lower than a ported . so if u think u need 150 go 300 if u need 300 go 500-600ish etc , doesnt mean u need to be running it max all d time as u can simply lower d sub output on ur deck


This is very, very good advice. I've got 1.2kW going to my two 12s in their sealed box. Turning it down when there's too much bass (like when the mother-in-law is visiting, LOL) is easy. Turning it up when your subwoofer is already at its limits leads to crappy sound and likely a blown subwoofer.


I may have missed it but is this the same suv you had? Have you done any electrical upgrades to accommodate the 1.2kW?

I am just curious as to where we will be pushing it. 3stagevtec had recently put in a superbank capacitor in his ride and had 2.5kW of bass being supported by an average-sized battery under the hood. Its really somethign to see.

1.2kW can be pretty loud I assume because this is the kind of damage 500 watts ported can do. And like I said, it starts to get uncomfortable.


User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 796
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Brian Steele » January 5th, 2020, 1:48 am

nervewrecker wrote:I may have missed it but is this the same suv you had? Have you done any electrical upgrades to accommodate the 1.2kW?


None at all. Not even a "Big 3" upgrade. At my normal playback levels there's no real pull on the stock system. I can get the lights to dim a little if I REALLY turn it up, but that rarely happens, and the car's trunk starts complaining loudly at that level anyway. I lost my two rear park lights when testing how loud it can get with the 32 Hz stuff in Black Eye Peas' "RITMO (Bad Boys For Life)" track, for example. Of course, it does help that the 1.2kW is being provided by an efficient class D amp.

User avatar
Ted_v2
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 11384
Joined: March 30th, 2010, 8:58 pm

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby Ted_v2 » January 8th, 2020, 9:58 pm

i ran a deck with 4 speaker setup before and about 400RMS on bass ported. Loved that combo, some cheaper pioneer usb deck with a 5 band eq, Pair of rca out from the deck straight to the amp, simple. cheap and did the work fine for a long time.

Now im all active with dual amps, sealed sub ect.

do a good box ported, i doubt the average person would like a sealed box, but you could be diff.

User avatar
X_Factor
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9401
Joined: April 27th, 2003, 5:54 pm
Location: St. Augustine
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby X_Factor » January 9th, 2020, 9:28 am

the thing with sealed boxes is a good EQ
once you are able to EQ 20-50hz range it will shine

kavaninho
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 784
Joined: March 29th, 2008, 8:30 pm
Location: Gasparillo
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby kavaninho » January 9th, 2020, 5:17 pm

X_Factor wrote:the thing with sealed boxes is a good EQ
once you are able to EQ 20-50hz range it will shine


most basic Decks wont be able to eq out subs properly

User avatar
sMASH
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17789
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:30 am

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby sMASH » January 9th, 2020, 6:57 pm

kavaninho wrote:
X_Factor wrote:the thing with sealed boxes is a good EQ
once you are able to EQ 20-50hz range it will shine


most basic Decks wont be able to eq out subs properly
Turn the gain up on the sub amp, and turn down the 50hz band on the head unit eq.

User avatar
sMASH
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17789
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:30 am

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby sMASH » January 9th, 2020, 6:59 pm

Would love to hear a demo vid of those 12's.
Fir reference sake
Brian Steele wrote:
Brian Steele wrote: Doesn't take up much space and with enough power provides all the SPL that I want.


I forgot one more thing - it allows me to carry other stuff in my car's trunk :-).

20170915-carsub1.jpg


The two 12s are actually mounted below all that crap in that image, in a fiberglass enclosure built into the car's spare tire well. The wooden grille above it was a temporary one that I was using until the stainless steel replacement was finished.

kavaninho
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 784
Joined: March 29th, 2008, 8:30 pm
Location: Gasparillo
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby kavaninho » January 9th, 2020, 7:52 pm

sMASH wrote:
kavaninho wrote:
X_Factor wrote:the thing with sealed boxes is a good EQ
once you are able to EQ 20-50hz range it will shine


most basic Decks wont be able to eq out subs properly
Turn the gain up on the sub amp, and turn down the 50hz band on the head unit eq.


In your case this worked because most of the "energy" was centered around the 50Hz region where you could have attenuated.

This will vary from car to car.

User avatar
sMASH
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17789
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:30 am

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby sMASH » January 9th, 2020, 8:11 pm

kavaninho wrote:
sMASH wrote:
kavaninho wrote:
X_Factor wrote:the thing with sealed boxes is a good EQ
once you are able to EQ 20-50hz range it will shine


most basic Decks wont be able to eq out subs properly
Turn the gain up on the sub amp, and turn down the 50hz band on the head unit eq.


In your case this worked because most of the "energy" was centered around the 50Hz region where you could have attenuated.

This will vary from car to car.

u also turn up the sub output and/or amp gain. take out what u dont want, first. then u add where u need to. it woudl not be ideal, but if u want to fite up with the eq settings of the deck, that dont have low bass bands, that is what u gotta do.

u dont adjust the bass portion of the curve with respect to the whole bandwidth of ur signal. u adjust the bass section according to the shape u want for the bass section. since u cant add 30hz, to make the shape u want, u reduce the 50hz/60hz (or what ever band the deck has) and till u get the response u want. since u took out energy, u have to turn the sub volume up, or the gain of the amp, up, to get the output levels u want. u also have to adjust the lpf to protect ur sub from the higher bass bands that u dont want going to it.

again, this is only a scotch tape remedy to fite up with, if u dont have eq bands below 50hz to adjust, but u need to get sumting done lower than that.

kavaninho
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 784
Joined: March 29th, 2008, 8:30 pm
Location: Gasparillo
Contact:

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby kavaninho » January 9th, 2020, 8:42 pm

I totally understand, I would not even describe it as scotch tape remedy. That procedure is fine for flattening out your sub response with limited equipment. I have tried similar once and noticed the bass output was most around 40HZ and nothing in the system could have attenuated it (80prs). It all depends where the center freq. in your eq bands are set. Unfortunately, I only had that 31Hz and 50Hz band to play with.

User avatar
carluva
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1788
Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 2:03 pm
Location: Down in the homeland

Re: Subwoofer advise needed...

Postby carluva » January 9th, 2020, 9:23 pm

I've been reading this thread intently.

Question... How do you know the frequency that your sub is actually outputting or being tuned for? Some piece of equipment used to measure?

Advertisement

Return to “I.C.E. / Car Audio Tech”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests