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**Clarity vs "LOUD"**

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**Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 22nd, 2014, 9:59 pm

Good Day,
Not too sure I'm in the right section here [edited]

Now I am aware that many car audio tuners do this by ear and some more than others have it pretty close. However with electronics there is nothing like pretty close, it is DEAD ON EXACT.

Question is, why do most people confuse being LOUD and being CLEAN and also why do most people not understand exactly what type and the kind of the equipment needed to be loud and clean at the same time?

Seems like most people with 2 6.5" and 2 8" Eminence and a Horn (Driver) wants to sound just as loud as a guy doing 150db at a sound off.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby BrotherHood » May 22nd, 2014, 10:05 pm

So there is certain kinds of equipment that enables a vehicle to be loud and clean at the same time?
Can it not be achieved with any kind of equipment?
Are the two possible at all together?

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby nervewrecker » May 22nd, 2014, 10:09 pm

BrotherHood wrote:So there is certain kinds of equipment that enables a vehicle to be loud and clean at the same time?
Can it not be achieved with any kind of equipment?
Are the two possible at all together?


Yea boi.

But you have to be prepared to spend eh. Demoed the morel (I think elates). Fcukers eat power, loud as f**k and clean for days.

You can spend on a decent set and get good results too and by decent I still mean a pretty penny.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 22nd, 2014, 10:28 pm

BrotherHood wrote:So there is certain kinds of equipment that enables a vehicle to be loud and clean at the same time?
Can it not be achieved with any kind of equipment?
Are the two possible at all together?



I hear you. However this all depends on the individual taste. Now In my opinion you could have shitty equipment but not necessarily sound shitty. The owner has to understand this and also understand that to achieve this they may not sound loud but will have a good balanced system for what they have.

Electronics that I am speaking about has nothing to do with how loud a system is or not. It has to do with ensuring that all the equipment involved in the car audio system functions as it should. Lets say for instance a tweeter plays roughly between 2kHz and 20kHz you would not want to tune that tweeter to play a frequency of 100Hz, you will cause that equipment to FAIL. It was not engineered to play at that frequency.

Both can be achieved however many people refuse or are unable to spend the money required to make something like that possible. And prefer to buy "not as good equipment" but want to sound just as LOUD and CLEAR as an expensive system with high end equipment.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 22nd, 2014, 10:50 pm

Another this is that many people perceive distortion as being LOUD however in reality what they are hearing is what I referred to earlier as "sounding like ass".

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby BrotherHood » May 22nd, 2014, 11:53 pm

Thanks for clearing that up nerve and OP. This car audio thing I eh grasp too well at all. I just know the basics. I did however thought that once you have decent enough power and backup, together with a good processing unit, that both clarity and loudness can be achieved.

I agree with the part that most people deceive distortion to be loud. Before now, I thought that clarity and loudness could not exist together with both being at full potential. To me, once you raise volume above a certain range, especially with a not so powerful amp and backup, their will be distortion.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » May 23rd, 2014, 5:49 am

ah being fasss,wa yuh hook up for the man,power boustik n boss?? he was expecting the zapco sound instead ent?

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby meccalli » May 23rd, 2014, 6:16 am

Alot of trinidadians expose their ears to an insane amount of spl on a regular basis, what do you expect- simple truth is, alot of people just can't hear well.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby SR » May 23rd, 2014, 6:37 am

This..... most listen to compressed music format on a crappy sounding system and belive that is how it is suppose to sound....encouraged by many shops and installers who are just interested in a sale and not interested in teaching the right thing...actually most dont even know the right thing to start with but promote themselves as professionals in the industry

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby pete » May 23rd, 2014, 7:20 am

What SPL value is a good SQ system played at and for how long?

Maybe he was playing it at a higher level than before and damaged his hearing so now can't hear the distortion.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby SR » May 23rd, 2014, 7:23 am

110db at a max is loud enough

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby Fearless » May 23rd, 2014, 7:37 am

OP i agree with you 100%, but my problem is you using a machine to tune your system, but going to a car show, you are going to be judge by humans, who have years of experience( just mean they have more permanent ear damage in my opinion) on how your system sounds. So can judges/installers really tell the difference?
cuz i know some installers that can't even hear a difference between 128kbps and 320kbps mp3 format

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby PapaC » May 23rd, 2014, 7:38 am

This can be compared to many other products now, where quality is compromised to satisfy cheap people.
Just like some chefs, car paint shops.
You have to decide which way you want o go, make a quick buck or keep your service for those who understand quality, which someimes is a small niche.
My advice... take everybody money.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby pete » May 23rd, 2014, 7:46 am

SR, how long at 110dB before your hearing becomes permanently damaged?

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby SmokeyGTi » May 23rd, 2014, 7:48 am

I thought clean meant free of distortion... i hate to hear distortion in installs.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 23rd, 2014, 8:07 am

SmokeyGTi wrote:I thought clean meant free of distortion... i hate to hear distortion in installs.



I hate to hear distortion as well that's why when I tune there is ZERO distortion. Any many people especially with a subwoofer listen to distortion coming from the sub and say " yea yea don't sounding better and louder, rel good", this time is a set of "bucket bass" distortion coming from it and they happy that their rear view mirror shaking..

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 23rd, 2014, 8:20 am

pete wrote:What SPL value is a good SQ system played at and for how long?

Maybe he was playing it at a higher level than before and damaged his hearing so now can't hear the distortion.



Maybe he had a few too many beers and decided that he had the greatest system in the world clouded by his alcohol consumption, turned up the volume level where is was not supposed to go damaged his ear and any SQ he had. lol

Here's a break down of the SPL level and time before hearing damage below:
Image

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby VexXx Dogg » May 23rd, 2014, 9:13 am

C33_RB20DET wrote:
SmokeyGTi wrote:I thought clean meant free of distortion... i hate to hear distortion in installs.



I hate to hear distortion as well that's why when I tune there is ZERO distortion. Any many people especially with a subwoofer listen to distortion coming from the sub and say " yea yea don't sounding better and louder, rel good", this time is a set of "bucket bass" distortion coming from it and they happy that their rear view mirror shaking..

Strong claim, this.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 23rd, 2014, 9:19 am

VexXx Dogg wrote:
C33_RB20DET wrote:
SmokeyGTi wrote:I thought clean meant free of distortion... i hate to hear distortion in installs.



I hate to hear distortion as well that's why when I tune there is ZERO distortion. Any many people especially with a subwoofer listen to distortion coming from the sub and say " yea yea don't sounding better and louder, rel good", this time is a set of "bucket bass" distortion coming from it and they happy that their rear view mirror shaking..

Strong claim, this.



I understand the concern, however I believe the claim is misunderstood as in every audio system home, car or otherwise there will be an amount of distortion present. It even goes on after a system is properly tuned, the type of music being listened to and also even the different quality of music recorded or encoded. What I do is take out the distortion that many people perceive as sound and also what many people do by turning up gains and volume to the extent where they are introducing distortion into the system. So please to take it the wrong way when I say ZERO.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby BrotherHood » May 23rd, 2014, 9:46 am

C33_RB20DET wrote:
pete wrote:What SPL value is a good SQ system played at and for how long?

Maybe he was playing it at a higher level than before and damaged his hearing so now can't hear the distortion.



Maybe he had a few too many beers and decided that he had the greatest system in the world clouded by his alcohol consumption, turned up the volume level where is was not supposed to go damaged his ear and any SQ he had. lol

Here's a break down of the SPL level and time before hearing damage below:
Image

In addition to this, ther eis something called Temprary Threshold Shift (TPS). Anything louder than 87-90dB for over a short term exposure limit of about 15mins, leads to TPS. temprary hearing loss.
With that said, the "installers" who continuosuly tuning and listening to loud music really can't tell the difference well after about 15-20 mins.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » May 23rd, 2014, 11:05 am

some ppl ears already damaged including some installers so to a normal personal who say ay that thing screaming in my ears they will say dat good or if u lower it or tuned not to scream they say ay it sounding sorf now : put it back how it was

majority of trinis think car audio is only about being a rolling DJ on wheels so sh1t haffi be loud as fackk , doh mind d bandwidth not fully covered equally or missing certain ranges or u cant play anything under 40hz , once it can be hear down d road & it sounding cork down quinam or caura or by d rumshop : dise wa we talkin bout !!! :D :D :D

mp3s - of course there is nothing better than original but who really gonna buy a original cd for just 1 song that has a wicked bassline , so ppl downloading like mad & some with low bit rate or even if it high bit rate d actual level is low , seen\heard it many times with even 320 ...point is if u use low quality recording well of course it gonna sound like toots & for every song u playing up with knobs adjusting it

systems designed to play certain songs or 1 or 2 music genres in mind ...no need for much typing here , what is d sense !? :roll:

poor system design & buying low equipment : expecting it to loud & clean for something that cost 10 times more , yes some folks say equipment 20% : install 80% .... but if u start with toots u cannot turn it into candy ... also alot of ppl over complicate a system by getting too much stuff or worng stuff then ketching ass to tune it or get it all to play "right" ...... have seen ppl buy a $10000 amp then looking for cheap 0g\wires & 1 or 2 batteries to support $30000+ in equipment :roll: :roll: :roll:

installation - probably 80% of "installers" dunno wtf they doing & some their level of "good" might be considered a 5\10 in other ppl's book


lemmeh go do some work yes .... :lol:

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby GVTrini07 » May 23rd, 2014, 11:48 am

Fearless wrote:So can judges/installers really tell the difference?
cuz i know some installers that can't even hear a difference between 128kbps and 320kbps mp3 format



Any SQ competition, I suggest taking a proper CD you are familiar with and ask owners if you can demo their car. Play a few songs you are accustomed to listening, take note on the differences in sound in each vehicle. Then tell me if experienced judges cannot hear the difference. Cause most definitely you will hear differences. Truth is, if you cannot, there is someone who can and they will tell you like it is!

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby nervewrecker » May 23rd, 2014, 12:36 pm

GVTrini07 wrote:
Fearless wrote:So can judges/installers really tell the difference?
cuz i know some installers that can't even hear a difference between 128kbps and 320kbps mp3 format



Any SQ competition, I suggest taking a proper CD you are familiar with and ask owners if you can demo their car. Play a few songs you are accustomed to listening, take note on the differences in sound in each vehicle. Then tell me if experienced judges cannot hear the difference. Cause most definitely you will hear differences. Truth is, if you cannot, there is someone who can and they will tell you like it is!


Agreed!

If you can't tell the difference between 128 and 320 something wrong with that system or you.

Had a lot of 128kb/s mp3's on my flash drive the first time I took a demo in a well done system. Didnt even take 30 seconds of flipping though to hear what rubbish it sounded like.
Since then I opted for better and since then I have a fair idea of what good supposed to sound like.

What I had in my car back then, you could barely hear the difference between 128 and 320.

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Re: **Clarity vs

Postby GVTrini07 » May 23rd, 2014, 1:06 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
GVTrini07 wrote:
Fearless wrote:So can judges/installers really tell the difference?
cuz i know some installers that can't even hear a difference between 128kbps and 320kbps mp3 format



Any SQ competition, I suggest taking a proper CD you are familiar with and ask owners if you can demo their car. Play a few songs you are accustomed to listening, take note on the differences in sound in each vehicle. Then tell me if experienced judges cannot hear the difference. Cause most definitely you will hear differences. Truth is, if you cannot, there is someone who can and they will tell you like it is!


Agreed!

If you can't tell the difference between 128 and 320 something wrong with that system or you.

Had a lot of 128kb/s mp3's on my flash drive the first time I took a demo in a well done system. Didnt even take 30 seconds of flipping though to hear what rubbish it sounded like.
Since then I opted for better and since then I have a fair idea of what good supposed to sound like.

What I had in my car back then, you could barely hear the difference between 128 and 320.


One can tell the difference in sound between 2 installs even if they are using audiophile recorded media. It does not need to be bit rate of the tracks being the issue. The reason I used SQ competition above is because of experience. However differences can be heard between Gallery Cars as well.

All one needs to accept is my system can sound better and seek out trying to improve on it. Flow smoother from octave to octave/ frequency to frequency. Once someone is of the opinion that "my system bess an it ah ha no one betta cause ah running" well you've just walked away from the potential to be better. If your into competition, listen to the judges, if you do not have a clue what they talking about, ask them to explain. Installers need to bite the bullet and stop with the stereotype that loudness is all that matters!

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby speedmelter » May 23rd, 2014, 4:08 pm

i got into car audio a few years aback through friends via being exposed to the soundclash kinda sheit. came to discover that its the most ignorant group of society who hobby this type of rubbish to the point where they pull cutlass for each other over sheit and turn up volume levels till you question their hearing ability whether it can detect obvious distortion or simply crave to go deaf.

I cant seem to understand now why someone with a vehicle other than a DJ truck would want music for the entire village to hear. There is much more fun trying to understand and reproduce the natural sound of a recording within reasonable audio limits. much more to learn as well. much more fulfilling than a day on the beach with a bottle of rum trying to entertain them bad ting.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 23rd, 2014, 10:45 pm

I totally agree with GVTrini07 and speedmelter. Where have the days gone where a sound off was about the audio system that is inside the vehicle and not on the side on top of and where ever else.

Installers really need to advise their customers better and educate themselves in some instances as they is so much that car audio entails. Quality as you all rightfully said filling the frequency gaps. Many people and installers let's say tune the sub(s) to the lowest crossover frequency and then tune the mids and highs really high and pass all the distortion levels. So now you have your sub playing lets say 50Hz and below, your mids tuned closer to the frequency of a tweeter and volume levels and gains all over the place, of course it going to sound crappy and scream in your ear. But you know what to many people that sounding loud and good. These are the many who refuse to educate themselves and get out of the 10" for midrange protruding out their back windows. Exactly the crap for quinam and river competitors.

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby SR » May 24th, 2014, 8:29 am

Have you ever competed in an official car audio competition?

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Re: **Clarity vs

Postby C33_RB20DET » May 24th, 2014, 9:16 am

SR wrote:Have you ever competed in an official car audio competition?



Personally I have not with my system due to this same reason of how it has become. Personally in my opinion a sound off is not having a Dj set up on your car hood. I am not also saying that it does not take time, money, work and lots of effort in some of those installs but however as I mentioned about that type of sound off is not for me.

Why do you ask though?

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby GVTrini07 » May 24th, 2014, 1:19 pm

So OP hear dis nah, wah yuh does use as yuh reference material? How yuh does know when it songin bess? How yuh does know yuh reference material songin like it supposed to song?

Wah equipment yuh does use tuh detect distortion or tune for no distortion? Yuh ha one ah dem fancy light thingy?

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Re: **Clarity vs "LOUD"**

Postby SR » May 24th, 2014, 1:39 pm

I ask because you are making your assumptions on only one aspect of a autosound competition and without actual experience of the format itslef your views are only on personal prefferences. Electronic equipment sucjlh as the industry standard audio control 3056 rta can only go so far as to measuring actual bandwidth of the system but it cant detect distortion. Distortion measurements can be done freq by freq with a scope however its different when reproducing multiple frequencies at the same time

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