need ideas music in 4 door hilux

[Firewall]

System in my hilux cost over 20k excluding headunit, subs and enclosure...SR just did a simple system for me for fraction of the cost and it sounds a lot better than the system in my hilux with mosconi processor, morel etc....

So.....you're saying that 20K in equipment is not needed to sound good in a hilux.....right?

So you came here to waste down a cost by SR dinelle etc when the same shop you big up charge similar rates because of quality of work.....yes rhyan is good at his installs and quality of his work and almost similar to both sr and dinelle.

I didn't bring Rhyan into this....you posted a pic from them.
Probably "wasting down" the cost because there was no explanation for charging that, other than this is what i charge, take it or go by a "raj".

Take your head out your ass for a minute and realise when people are good at what they do, they know what rate they charge for their work .....who dont wanna pay..thats their prob
Exactly true, and the market will reflect if the price is a reasonable one by the amount of work they do. Are the professional installers you mentioned do this as their full time job?

oh jesus Aaron......read nah....

the parts in red now

At the end of the day, while people fighting down prices of equipment and labour. A cheap system for a hilux could be had for 6k if youre doing it yourself.

Cheap is the word here. Its not only only an Adjective to describe the cost of a system, its a Noun that identifies a Culture.

Neither SR nor Myself never have, or ever will do cheap.

That you guys style yourselves after SIS and other high end shops is great.

There are dozens of people that dont value their time, nor experience, and these "Raj" installers are the first ones to complain about high prices and markup, and are the first one to fight down an install job and offer to "beat" the price.

This is what i have a problem with. On one hand you're saying the customer has the choice to take their business elsewhere, but elsewhere is "raj" You guys have skill and experience, and as such place a value on your time, that's fine, but it reeks of arrogance to say everyone else who charges less is a "raj installer"

[Aaron 2NR]

guess you just twisting everything to waste down the cost quoted....let me find the bill

morel dotech comps- $3200
morel tempo coax - $1000
groundzero amp- $5000
mosconi processor - $6000

that's equipment alone then cost for labour, wiring, deadening, accessories...

quality products are not cheap that's the point that is being made...if someone want to use pioneer or the other economical brands fine..but don't expect the quality of sound compared to another...

each shop has certain brands that they use, since they either retain them or represent them locally and that is the brands they would recommend in their installs.....


again people know what their time cost and charge accordingly....

it's just like this, the firm would charge x around since they have to cover tools, equipments, overhead cost and profit....
smaller shops have less overhead cost and may not have the top end tools..
mango tree mechanic most of the times operate under their house or at the side of the road under a shed, own basic tools and charge ah lil $20 and $50 for everything.......most of the times their solutions are trial and error since they only understand the basic fundamentals and not properly trained....

anyways yes hope OP get thru with his install

[nigel1977]

People and their agendas.

Careful who you put your heads on blocks for gentlemen. The same people you're putting blind faith in all have stories of their own.


While many customers cannot afford/ refuse/ wont pay for a professional installation, there are several that know good quality work when they see it, and will pay for it.

Me personally, I take pride in doing work for such customers, as I'd much prefer to spend 2 months working on one car than doing one day long work for people that are looking to cry down every item of cost on a quotation.

And NO, I DO NOT DO THIS FOR A LIVING and neither does SR.

So you all carry on beating down the cost for this and that.

Which installer did this, blah blah.

As for Mario, How is your amp rack holding out?



DONT FIGHT DOWN SOMEONES PRICE because you feel its too high and you can get it cheaper. or because you feel its too much. The installer isnt holding a gun to your head to make you pay them, now are they?

[Aaron 2NR]

Always wondered who evolution7 was....

[kavaninho]

Why all this beat up about deadening still going on here. With deadening people have different views of how much should be applied and how it should be placed. Remember people believe 25% coverage is all that is needed.
I will always stick to my DIY installs just for the sake of learning. If i had to pay for the install and equipment in which I compete with, I would never have been able to have a good system. Right now it seems to me if one budgets for a system one third of that has to go for the labour.

But seriously, if you are a true car audio fanatic would you want to install everything yourself?

Or, and for everyone who beating up about better installs etc., you should come and prove it IASCA and MECA both give install quality competition.

[evolution7tt]

Nigel, my amp rack has never failed me, neither have I ever questioned the quality of your work. You have always been an exemplar to me in the audio hobby, even way before I started competing. I have said that many times.

I simply came to show, that a pro installer, can too, make terrible mistakes. I believe that if someone is paying top dollar for an install, work shown in the pictures I posted is inexcusable.

I also thought that some guys were being a bit too harsh with Firewall, as his questions were valid. I also saw his rehash of the statement 80% install and 20% equipment and the view by some here, is that it only holds true with some people.

I also never put my head on a block for anyone. The pictures tell all.

[kavaninho]

Nigel, my amp rack has never failed me, neither have I ever questioned the quality of your work. You have always been an exemplar to me in the audio hobby, even way before I started competing. I have said that many times.

I simply came to show, that a pro installer, can too, make terrible mistakes. I believe that if someone is paying top dollar for an install, work shown in the pictures I posted is inexcusable.

I also thought that some guys were being a bit too harsh with Firewall, as his questions were valid. I also saw his rehash of the statement 80% install and 20% equipment and the view by some here, is that it only holds true with some people.

I also never put my head on a block for anyone. The pictures tell all.

I agree with you Mario

What makes me like Nigel's installs, it the way he can justify the use of any thing he installs/use.
As soon as I was ready for competition, this was the guy I wanted to get connected with.

[Firewall]

I am very glad that we have world class installers available locally as they will help to raise the bar for those who are willing to learn.

Their time in the industry has afforfed them the privellage to call their prices based on their skill level and experience.

What it does not allow is for them to put down others who are in the same field as lesser simply because of a lesser price and maybe lesser skill. That's just arrogance...plain and simple. IMO, you cannot with one breath say "do not beat down a man on price" and with the other insinuate that "cheaper" is inherently worse.

With regards to the price mentioned here.....if that's what you guys charge for a basic install, thats fine. As stated, there will always be those who percieve it to be worth the cost....especially on a higher end vehicle where things get tricky.....fast.
A little explanation may have been nice to go with it though.

To the OP, I do not know what your exact goals are for your system. I hope the price mentioned does not deter you from wanting to do the install.

Perhaps you can mention the amount you have budgeted for the install. I'm sure these same installers can work out something within the price range you may set.

[carfreak1024]

Okay I was browsing through the threads here as i normally do from time to time and i need to make a couple remarks...

1. In what Universe does it take 8 hours to deaden a vehicle? Especially 2 people doing the work, you did say "us"? Today i started work on a pretty custom build in a 1972 GMC Jimmy. Car had no interior besides a pair of door panels, and 4 seats from a Cadillac Escalade. Working solo, i was able to fabricate a full center console/amprack, design and build a subwoofer enclosure, deaden the entire vehicle, and lay fresh carpeting on the floor. There is a point where attention to detail and wasting time gets blurred and taking 8 hours to deaden a hilux which can totally come apart in about an hour is just crazy.

2. I have heard many many many Hilux installations from ones costing ~7k to ~40k and i have to say that the cost to benefit ratio of spending anything more than 15k is going to be nearly unnoticeable for 99.9999% of Trinidad's population. Those 0.0001% of Trinis who will know the difference are in this thread. You Think i am wrong, how many people come to the IASCA SQ meets? For example when I heard pimps car which competed at SBN I was mighty impressed at what i heard, when my little brother who is the same height and build as i am heard it he wanted to know what the big difference between the system in his hilux which costed ~15k and pimp's.

3. If you think you need to charge more than $1000-1150 to build a subwoofer box for a hilux then you are wrong. A competent installer with simple woodworking tools: table saw, jigsaw, router, and brad nailer; should be able to design and assemble a box like that in less than one hour...... less if they have already configured a system like that before. In addition, since that is maybe the most popular pickup in Trinidad; a competent installer should be familiar with the vehicle. However there are exceptions like if the enclosure is being wrapped in some sort of vinyl and requires stitching, then it is a matter of taking it to the upholsterers which will charge no more than $250. So Check $300 for sheet of MDF, $150 in carpet, glues, and screws. And you talking $550-700 in profit. That's over 100% profit in an hour? That's about 10% of rent and utilities for a small sized shop for a month from one box from one install!

4. One of the best systems in terms of a great daily setup was my brother's hilux which was a setup designed by myself and the other guys at Kaizen. I used Faital Pro 6FE200 in the front doors, Arc Audio KAR tweeters in the stock locations, sealed off the doors. Stock Headunit. 1 RE Audio SRx10D4 in a custom center console box. JBL BPX300.4 and JBL Crown BPX500.1 amps. System was loud, midbass could hang with anything that i have ever heard in any SQ setup and i have heard the top guys in Trinidad. That entire system could be bought and installed for ~$13500 or less if u DIY like i do and go with cheaper amps. Imaging and Staging were not the focus of this install so sound was not perfectly in the center like a certain honda civic i heard at an event once, but then again i'd rather have a properly enjoyable and loud setup with decent imaging than "2 batchak fighting in the center of my dash" which was a literal quote from another tuner who heard the aforementioned civic. names will not be called. lol

5. Lastly, I think people forget that this is an area where people come to show off what they have done, and get information on how to get things done. Whether that be how to properly time align a system, or where to take your vehicle to get it done right. So you get good guys like firewall, who BTW is a pretty damn good DIY'er that gives some pretty reasonable advice, that comes on here to put his 2cents. Then he is literally singled out by Mr. Big Bad Aaron for his views. What's the reason for that? If you spent just over 20k on your system and got the best of the best of the best why should a man spend 18k to get something decent? That does not make sense to me at all.

[kavaninho]

3. If you think you need to charge more than $1000-1150 to build a subwoofer box for a hilux then you are wrong. A competent installer with simple woodworking tools: table saw, jigsaw, router, and brad nailer; should be able to design and assemble a box like that in less than one hour...... less if they have already configured a system like that before. In addition, since that is maybe the most popular pickup in Trinidad; a competent installer should be familiar with the vehicle. However there are exceptions like if the enclosure is being wrapped in some sort of vinyl and requires stitching, then it is a matter of taking it to the upholsterers which will charge no more than $250. So Check $300 for sheet of MDF, $150 in carpet, glues, and screws. And you talking $550-700 in profit. That's over 100% profit in an hour? That's about 10% of rent and utilities for a small sized shop for a month from one box from one install!

This is the part I ain't agree with.
One Hour custom sub box? With my little experience, if I were given a build for behind a hilux I would take no less than 4 days to complete. According to the difficulty of the build $1000 is well worth it.

[nigel1977]

The "Raj" title eh sitting well atall.


The truth offends I guess.....

[carfreak1024]

This is the part I ain't agree with.
One Hour custom sub box? With my little experience, if I were given a build for behind a hilux I would take no less than 4 days to complete. According to the difficulty of the build $1000 is well worth it.

If you really think about it, a Hilux Rear Seat Sub Box is a normal wedge shaped box with an 8" depth at the bottom, 3" depth at the top, 21" in height, and i believe 42" or 43" across.

If you are a DIYer The fastest way to make a box like that is to get a friend and have him help you rip the box into (4) 2' sections. Then set your fence to 5" cut 3 of the pieces to a 43" width so now you have 3 pieces 43"x24". Chop up those pieces to give you the front, back, top and bottom, with one additional piece to make the 3/4" deep recess for the body brace on the backwall. Set angles on saw and cut the bevel for the wedge. At this point you should have spent about 20-30 minutes making those cuts. Glue and brad nailing the box together should take about 10 minutes tops. Now cut a rectangular piece that is 21"x11". Cut the two sides from that piece using your angle fence on your table saw. Brad nail those on. Cut holes for speakers, ports if necessary, and terminal using your router. Construction done in less than an hour. The rest of the time and maybe a little over would be time for upholstery and so on.

With the tools available to me I can probably make that box in around 10-15 minutes without a single imperfection in the construction period. . A professional installer with the tools i mentioned above should be able to do the same within an hour to two hours depending upon on his aptitude with his machinery. A DIYer working with nothing but a jigsaw, drill, and circular could do it in about 3 hours. I have seen someone build one of these in the time it took me to drive from POS to Arima on a Saturday morning using nothing but a homemade table saw which was basically a circular saw sticking through a slit in a dining table, a jigsaw, and a drill. It was without upholstery and he charged me $500tt. I designed it and gave him a cutlist, but he built it for that price, in that time and it was flawless.

[carfreak1024]

The "Raj" title eh sitting well atall.


The truth offends I guess.....

I haven't seen a "Raj" in here yet, you care to point him out or something holding your tounge? In addition, the truth does not offend; what offends is ignorance, pompousness, and the plain old lack of respect for others portrayed by some persons in this thread.

BTW I'm not talking about you.

[nigel1977]

^^^ Thanks for pointing out to everyone, that you have no clue what "custom" work is.

What you carefully described is a regular box that is wholesaled to install shops for about 350.00 ttd, carpeted, with a terminal.

[Aaron 2NR]

^ i think he know about custom wiring......again this is a typical thread about bashing price without understanding the real work and challenges associated with such....

[fareed7298]

This was a pic of the test stages seat went back original.

[seanviper]

Seeing that there are so many ppl in here knowing about behind the hilux back seat

Can two SKAR VD 10s fit in a box behind the back seat?
And will the box be able to be tuned to produce lows like around maybe 32-37hz?

If yes
Who can build me such a box and for how much?

[Aaron 2NR]

Subject: need ideas music in 4 door hilux

^ i think he know about custom wiring......again this is a typical thread about bashing price without understanding the real work and challenges associated with such....

Okay Mr. High and Mighty; explain to me what is technically wrong with what i did? If you knew what you were looking at you would realize that in the picture all of the RCA Cables are to the right side of the picture, and the current sources are to the left. No power wires or remote wires ever cross over an RCA Cable. All cables on board are secured firmly a couple inches apart with properly sized wire anchors.

The reasons that the cables are not 100% parallel and perpendicular has to do with their quality and thickness. These cables are probably the better part of 3/8" of an inch thick per side and as such cannot be folded and secured like a regular RCA Cable can. So to account for extra length, the cables needed to be layed out in a zig zag fashion almost so as to protrude from the board at the proper heights for connections to my amps. However, I needed to choose cables of this quality because of the environment that they were going into. If you knew anything about installation in vehicles like BMW, Mercedes, and so on you would know that due to the battery being in the back and the copious amounts of sensors in these modern German vehicles they are very noisy vehicles, electrically speaking. If you pull on o-scope to the stock 12v supply you would know what i am talking about. If you knew what causes electrical interference you would also understand what I am talking about. BUT YOU DON'T!

But before you ask a question you attack and say my wiring is sheit.

Furthermore, I have not an ounce of engine whine in my system. I admittedly had an issue with the remote wiring but that was fixed with an update from rockford. Since installing my setup nothing has moved an inch, and I do not baby my car at all. Why buy a BMW to drive it like a civic. It sees the backroads just as much as the custom turbo G35 it sleeps next to.

#beatup

[carfreak1024]

Subject: need ideas music in 4 door hilux

^ i think he know about custom wiring......again this is a typical thread about bashing price without understanding the real work and challenges associated with such....

Okay Mr. High and Mighty; explain to me what is technically wrong with what i did? If you knew what you were looking at you would realize that in the picture all of the RCA Cables are to the right side of the picture, and the current sources are to the left. No power wires or remote wires ever cross over an RCA Cable. All cables on board are secured firmly a couple inches apart with properly sized wire anchors.

The reasons that the cables are not 100% parallel and perpendicular has to do with their quality and thickness. These cables are probably the better part of 3/8" of an inch thick per side and as such cannot be folded and secured like a regular RCA Cable can. So to account for extra length, the cables needed to be layed out in a zig zag fashion almost so as to protrude from the board at the proper heights for connections to my amps. However, I needed to choose cables of this quality because of the environment that they were going into. If you knew anything about installation in vehicles like BMW, Mercedes, and so on you would know that due to the battery being in the back and the copious amounts of sensors in these modern German vehicles they are very noisy vehicles, electrically speaking. If you pull on o-scope to the stock 12v supply you would know what i am talking about. If you knew what causes electrical interference you would also understand what I am talking about. BUT YOU DON'T!

But before you ask a question you attack and say my wiring is sheit.

Furthermore, I have not an ounce of engine whine in my system. I admittedly had an issue with the remote wiring but that was fixed with an update from rockford. Since installing my setup nothing has moved an inch, and I do not baby my car at all. Why buy a BMW to drive it like a civic. It sees the backroads just as much as the custom turbo G35 it sleeps next to.

#beatup

thanks for posting! you care to comment? Or you have no answer to my questions? I was gonna let you make yourself look like a backside in private but since you feel it necessary to make one of yourself in public lets see it.

[Aaron 2NR]

Seems like I'm blind, my engine and battery in the rear of the benz lol

[carfreak1024]

^^^ Thanks for pointing out to everyone, that you have no clue what "custom" work is.

What you carefully described is a regular box that is wholesaled to install shops for about 350.00 ttd, carpeted, with a terminal.

Enlighten us on what a custom hilux rear seat subwoofer enclosure looks like, i think we need to see this one. I mean since it costs about 6 times what shops pay for a regular one, lets see what 6 times the money gets you. Since non of us have seen this mythical box.

In addition, you obviously have no idea who you are speaking to. Custom fabrication; not limited to car audio is all i know. Hence why one of the biggest CNC machines in the country is my father's.

[carfreak1024]

ImageUploadedByTriniTuner1395669073.297423.jpg

Seems like I'm blind, my engine and battery in the rear of the benz lol

hmmmm, that's probably because you have a small one with a small engine. SL55 AND SL63 AMG Battery is in the rear, its also like that in the w210, and some S class variants. BMW E90, E82, E60, F10, E46, E36, E39 and F30 all have battery in the rear and all were at some point in time parked in my garage. So whats your point?

Also if you think the only sensor in the vehicle is in your engine compartment, then that's probably your dad's ride and you have no idea what you are talking about agian!

[nigel1977]

^^^^

hahahahahaha
hahahahahahah


wait, there's more.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah



Having rich parents, doesn't give you the right to condescend either.

I'm sure your dad works day in day out, and knows the value of his labour, and skill, and costs his work appropriately, and certainly wouldn't appreciate some kid telling him about the cost of work.

Grow up pal, or, continue to show your true colours, and if this is your opinion of custom work, then...

[nigel1977]

And just for the record,

This is a Customised Enclosure. Its not my Work, but it deserved proper credit.



Lets see you knock something like this out in an hour.

[carfreak1024]

^^^^

hahahahahaha
hahahahahahah


wait, there's more.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah



Having rich parents, doesn't give you the right to condescend either.

I'm sure your dad works day in day out, and knows the value of his labour, and skill, and costs his work appropriately, and certainly wouldn't appreciate some kid telling him about the cost of work.

Grow up pal, or, continue to show your true colours, and if this is your opinion of custom work, then...

First off, do you even know what custom means? Find a Webster and do yourself a favor before you come back on here and try to make another one of your useless points.

I was not being condescending. You implied that i do not know what "high end" work is, when in fact you do not know me or the truly "high end" carpentry that i have seen and help create. I am not one of the typical spoiled children whose parents have a business and children that louse off of them. Ever since high school I've been on job sites with my father on the weekends; starting from the bottom carrying tools for workmen, to actually using machinery.

The most accurate thing that you have said in this thread is that my dad is a hard worker. It is because of him that i know what high end work is and what it should cost.

However, when asked to show what your high end box looks like you post someone else's work. You are quick to post something of mine and ridicule it without explaining why it is bad; but slow to respond with something of your own and say why it is better. That box you posted is a great box that was well designed and over engineered. I would not wince at paying up to $2500 for that; but don't try and fool me and make me believe that you would put a box like that in a system like the OP asked for right? I mean i may be young but as can be observed from my diction; I am no fool.

In my install that panel is inverted and when the amp rack is secured into its position; all of the wiring is hidden and in cannot be seen. If you read my thread you would see that. The only reason to look under that panel would be to access 12v power if ever i should need to add more accessories. I only showed it because it was part of my build and i really have nothing to hide about it. I think all but you and Aaron actually complemented it.

P.S:
I've been called a "rich kid" many times in my past by people who do not know me. If one thing that repetition of such events has taught me is that those who look down on the privileged will most likely fail to reach that level of prominence and success themselves.

#endrant.......

Now, you and whoever else feels the need to, can bicker about the meaning of custom and why a man should charge $400 an hour to build a box when the Engineer that designed the speakers in question probably made half of that!

[nigel1977]

Have a nice day young man.

You're totally correct, naturally, about everything. I too was once head strong and brash.

Many members here have given testimony to my work, yet the very few you have posted pictures of, all look like a Raj special.

Take your time, you'll get where you have to be soon enough.

[roger]

my eyes hurt!!

[PrEd8R]

Them seriously overdoing it with them prices dread

[kavaninho]

[kurpal_v2]

Took me close to 4hrs to finish a cube roof with 6sheets of loudforce Matt.


Entire vehicle in 8hrs? Not gonna even try that, my back literally aches thinking about it.