UPS batteries.....in the automotive environment..

[SR]

discuss

[kurpal_v2]

Not much to discuss really just I think eventually they will fail from the heat.

[SR]

as well as vibration

they are made for UPS and the telecomunication environment not automotive but yet i am seeing people trying to market this for car audio onto unsuspecting customers

as well as another line of batteries that have just been labeled with a sticker locally with no proven specs that have been certified either by the manufacturer or the bureau of standards
consumers need to be aware of what they are buying

the automotive envronment is a harsh one for batteries heat and vibration are the main reasons batteries do not last long

people need to be aware of the dangers of buying the incorect battery for the envronment they are being used in

[kurpal_v2]

bureau of standards should be alerted then if indeed such is being sold.



I've seen ups batteries used extensively in automotive environments and personally I think people lucky if they getting more than 6months from them.

[X_Factor]

their marketing strategy is the "Ah" rating on them
my partner bought one for i think 1400 or more and it didnt last for more than 15months
and that one was installed in the trunk, so the heat issue probably was not as bad as up front

[kurpal_v2]

ah marketing to the uneducated buyer is classic chain up.

I can't imagine the logic sellers use when convincing a customer that a rating derived for a brief couple of seconds can be beneficial for a system which is ment to play at least a good few mins.

[rollingstock]

Also UPS batteries were not designed for rapid discharge and recharge, which affects teh longevity of the battery itself.

They do have great specs though and can work for a battery bank for competition, but for daily drivers I wouldn't risk it.

[MonsterPower]

wrong .. most if not all of them has been used sucessfully in the audio and auto market..

What kurpal failed to observe is that they were improperly installed in that they were not properly secured or strapped down .. this leads to failure .

Hawker energy makes odessy ,optima ,Eagle picher and a host of others has been used sucessfully both for spl and long playing ...alma gates bronco was powered by eagle picher and she was running a few of the jbl 6000
Northstar or nsb batteries were highly sought after as spl batteries then the company realised the demand and now produces the same nsb 1400 as a rebranded battery for the auto .

[MonsterPower]

Also UPS batteries were not designed for rapid discharge and recharge, which affects teh longevity of the battery itself.

They do have great specs though and can work for a battery bank for competition, but for daily drivers I wouldn't risk it.

actually quite the contrary .. they are designed for deep cycle and this works better that lead acid which can have a buildup of sulphur on the lead plates

[rollingstock]

I had 2 as a secondary battery in my trunk, neither made more than a year and a half, same brand spec in my ups @ work still going after 7yrs. From my own experience i wouldn't use them for that again. Maybe much has changed since i used them.

Won't post the brand here cause i see the same batt being advertised on this site for sale, don't want to step on any toes. The tech that checked them when i had the failures stated that they weren't made for the frequency of discharge/recharge cycle they were on, as they were for emergency back up and not continuous use that way.

I'm not trained in this area so i went with his word.

[MonsterPower]

were they properly strapped down or just connected to the wires resting ontop a piece of mdf?

kurpal knows the cdt battery i have and i know 3 other truck drivers who has those very same batteries properly secured on the battery stand and they have gotton 2 yrs + on those very same batteries..

i am saying they can be used but needs to be properly secured . the charge discharge rate shoul dnot affect their performance since they are deep cycle

[rollingstock]

^ Properly secured in a custom enclosure in the spare tyre well. Bought a pair of Stingers for a few hundred more and didn't have any more issues till i sold the car 3 yrs later. Granted my experience using them is very limited and a while ago.

[kurpal_v2]

were they properly strapped down or just connected to the wires resting ontop a piece of mdf?

kurpal knows the cdt battery i have and i know 3 other truck drivers who has those very same batteries properly secured on the battery stand and they have gotton 2 yrs + on those very same batteries..

i am saying they can be used but needs to be properly secured . the charge discharge rate shoul dnot affect their performance since they are deep cycle

You know you are comparing batteries used in a 100% open space to those within closed spaces and next to engines right?


Being secured is a big factor yes but ask, how many ups have we replaced in the space of time I've had my optima (3+yrs) which was never secured.

Also your information wrt hawker making Odessy and optima are wrong, both are make independent of each other, optima owned by Johnson controls and oddesy by Enersys. Hawker is a totally different animal in the form of lead-acid afaik.


No one is saying they won't work etc but the question is for how long will it work?

[kurpal_v2]

Won't post the brand here cause i see the same batt being advertised on this site for sale, don't want to step on any toes. The tech that checked them when i had the failures stated that they weren't made for the frequency of discharge/recharge cycle they were on, as they were for emergency back up and not continuous use that way.

I'm not trained in this area so i went with his word.

Think about this, UPS banks are designed with float chargers to keep them charged at a constant rate right? Manufactors know this and therefore design for this no?

Which car you know provides a constant rate of charge?

Food for thought.

[SR]

correct

float/trickle charge


also under charging conditions the batteries emit sulphuric acid...just like all batteries and is dangerous whe inhaled however many install batteries in the cabin area/trunk with either zero or poor ventilation to outside the vehicle thus slowly poisoning themsleves/passengers


no major car audio sporting organisation supports the use of UPS batteries in competition vehilces and encourages over the counter commercially available automotove batteries

[noyztoyz]

once this is not turned into a brand bash, i am willing to contribute to this topic.
There is a professional way the discussion is going thus far and thats what im for.
just remember interfering with powersellers business is against this forum rules

now i am neutral with my opinion on the use of ups batteries in the automotive environment.
why? ive never seen any yearlong research or experiments done that put ups batteries against brand name "car audio" batteries and post results and have a discussion.
in my field of work when we compare drug a to drug b and patient benefit, we dont care what which million dollar mamoo anywhere in this world says, we want to see research, trials and results.

just because no major car audio sporting organisation supports the use of UPS batteries in competition vehilces and encourages over the counter commercially available automotive batteries (quote) does not mean that they will not work and last. You dont know which company paid who how much to support what. same thing happens in the multi trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry.
The only thing that stands firm is RESEARCH TRIALS and RESULTS

how sure i am is a different question cuz off all the digging i did into factories and companies in my research before i decided to launch my brand of batteries,
but how sure are you all that an xspower/kinetik/shuriken and all the other brands all which has a nice sticker marked car audio, a million dollar company saying its for car audio, a website saying its for car audio, car audio friends like wow showing it works, how are we so sure its not a "ups" all underneath??
because ive seen "ups" batteries last 5 years comfortable
and others have seen some barely make one year
different products have different qualities for different costs by different manufacturers

[SR]

other than some of the "older' brand names in automotive deep cycle batteries on the market many of the "newer" names on the market dont do thier own r&d of if any very little and its all the same casing a sticker and marketing

however
in the drug market there are "brand names" and "generic" which basically do the same function however the "brand name" does it better than the generic

this post is not meant to step on anyone toes with regards to brand names but to educate those who dont know een if it means educating those in the market to sell as some may just be there to make a profit rather than advise correctly


agian the key factors that shorten battery life span in the automotive market are heat and vibration

everyone wants to boast of AH ratings but is it the correct one for the application?
and what about the charging in the automotive world a battery is recharged faster than UPS recharges a UPS battery ...there is a difference in the charge rate ratings of a battery

[Gladiator]

once this is not turned into a brand bash, i am willing to contribute to this topic.
There is a professional way the discussion is going thus far and thats what im for.
just remember interfering with powersellers business is against this forum rules

now i am neutral with my opinion on the use of ups batteries in the automotive environment.
why? ive never seen any yearlong research or experiments done that put ups batteries against brand name "car audio" batteries and post results and have a discussion.
in my field of work when we compare drug a to drug b and patient benefit, we dont care what which million dollar mamoo anywhere in this world says, we want to see research, trials and results.

just because no major car audio sporting organisation supports the use of UPS batteries in competition vehilces and encourages over the counter commercially available automotive batteries (quote) does not mean that they will not work and last. You dont know which company paid who how much to support what. same thing happens in the multi trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry.
The only thing that stands firm is RESEARCH TRIALS and RESULTS

how sure i am is a different question cuz off all the digging i did into factories and companies in my research before i decided to launch my brand of batteries,
but how sure are you all that an xspower/kinetik/shuriken and all the other brands all which has a nice sticker marked car audio, a million dollar company saying its for car audio, a website saying its for car audio, car audio friends like wow showing it works, how are we so sure its not a "ups" all underneath??
because ive seen "ups" batteries last 5 years comfortable
and others have seen some barely make one year
different products have different qualities for different costs by different manufacturers

If you are selling UPS batteries for Automotive use please call the testing division at TTBS to get them tested and certified to the mandatory standard TTS 179:2005

If you are reported, the implementation division of TTBS can pay you a visit and seize all your stock. There will also be fines to pay...

[noyztoyz]

help in a definition of a "ups battery" sir,

am i am not selling "ups batteries"

this discussion cannot continue without a definition of "ups batteries"

i want to know what "ups batteries" dont have that the "car audio" batteries have.
Ive had beyond lengthy dialogue with techs at xspower, enersys and even the factory that makes xspower batts which also makes other batts for many other companies under any labelling they want and now know things that many of you dont

if you talked more and know more, well educate me,

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE RESEARCH AND RESULTS OF TRIALS THAT SHOW THAT UPS BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR AN AUTOMOTIVE ENVIRONMENT

If you didnt realise, and i dont mean to boast, but i am beyond highly educated
and at this level wha he say and she say that , like how allyuh does get by, dont count

i want to see trials, prospective studies and results please, thanks

[venomz]

help in a definition of a "ups battery" sir,

am i am not selling "ups batteries"

this discussion cannot continue without a definition of "ups batteries"

i want to know what "ups batteries" dont have that the "car audio" batteries have.
Ive had beyond lengthy dialogue with techs at xspower, enersys and even the factory that makes xspower batts which also makes other batts for many other companies under any labelling they want and now know things that many of you dont

if you talked more and know more, well educate me,

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE RESEARCH AND RESULTS OF TRIALS THAT SHOW THAT UPS BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR AN AUTOMOTIVE ENVIRONMENT

If you didnt realise, and i dont mean to boast, but i am beyond highly educated
and at this level wha he say and she say that , like how allyuh does get by, dont count

i want to see trials, prospective studies and results please, thanks

i agree...

[nervewrecker]

Well that's what we will like to see also....

[Gladiator]

Sir...FYI

Three months ago I would have been mandated by the laws of Trinidad and Tobago to file a report, send out a crew, seize 8 units from you, make you pay $12K for testing the sample and you would be banned from selling these untested batteries until they go through the testing sequences and PASS them... Luckily I resigned as the Officer in charge of electrical testing and don't really care one way or the other.

If you are selling batteries for Automotive use and they have not been tested, you need to get them tested. If your batteries can pass the first and second sequence tests (CCA discharge, Ah rating, Labeling info, vibration testing, electrolyte retention etc) then you can sell them to customers for Automotive use. If not then you are endangering the public and the batteries will be seized and destroyed by the TTBS.

So, now as you have some more info, call TTBS send in a sample (sample size is 4). they will be tested according to accredited tests, using calibrated standards and equipment and tested by certified technicians. Do the right thing as the highly educated citizen that you are... and good luck!

[SR]

"i want to see trials, prospective studies and results please, thanks"

do you have this for your brand of battery??

[MonsterPower]

but sr.. i can call many brands being sold on the us market that started out as ups batteries and now just got rebranded and is being sold as automotive batteries..

as for the tests i why was this not done at the point of entry .. why didnt customs notify standards beareau ? gladiator how is a product allowed into the country without proper testing and documentation? i was wondering this about the Hid kits being sold as well.

[noyztoyz]

i have contacted ttbs previously and i dont fear contacting them again
i will be happy to submit for testing, once i can see the results of the popular brand of the car audio batteries tested here already and allowed to sell.

and Monster Power, my brand has been true beurau of standards 5 years ago where the shipment was seized and was then released after 2 days and i was given a document for hassle-less import next time,

its only 4-5 years that i have my brand of batteries in vehicles, and trials for my brand are still ongoing,
namely longevity and living up to their rated time and they are doing quite well, some over 4 years in engine compartment.
there are even other experiments where they were put up against some of the brand name "car audio" batteries here in power supply experiments and the results are startling but not ready to make public yet because more testing equipment is needed to eliminate all loopholes and biases in experiment design.

anyway back to the discussion
thus far we have a "ups battery" and a brand name car audio battery next to each other and be it both are the same method eg agm or gel etc.
we cannot tell the difference and if both would hold out well in the automotive environment, except from what mamoo say.

yup, there is none of the research and trials we need readily available online, only opinions,

so what you supposed to do?

[noyztoyz]

but sr.. i can call many brands being sold on the us market that started out as ups batteries and now just got rebranded and is being sold as automotive batteries..

ah hit nail on head there bai, i have had discussions with some men that actually said this is how it started

[rollingstock]

This has started to turn into a piggy measuring contest, with both sides saying they know more than the other but no one showing any concrete evidence to support their own stance.

Me, i'll just stick to my own real world experience.

[kurpal_v2]

This has started to turn into a piggy measuring contest, with both sides saying they know more than the other but no one showing any concrete evidence to support their own stance.

Me, i'll just stick to my own real world experience.

Indeed


Tl;dr

[venomz]

so basically i just feel one man just fighting down the other for a sales pitch?

why dig in someone elses garden when yours need weeding and fertilizing as well?


chuna is d best yes!

[Gladiator]

but sr.. i can call many brands being sold on the us market that started out as ups batteries and now just got rebranded and is being sold as automotive batteries..

as for the tests i why was this not done at the point of entry .. why didnt customs notify standards beareau ? gladiator how is a product allowed into the country without proper testing and documentation? i was wondering this about the Hid kits being sold as well.

Most smart men businessmen disguise the usage intent of the products they import in order to evade customs and TTBS eg. label a shipment as UPS batteries, bring them in then sell them on the local market for Automotive use. This is against the law... and is the main reason why they are not picked up at the port of entry. Other than that, the staff is limited and cannot offer surveillance of everything that comes in.

For automotive batteries there is a compulsory standard, there is not any standard for HID kits. Implementing a standard is a large operation and takes about a year from conception to implementation stage. If you have complaint about a product that is defective (HID kits), make a report into the consumer affairs division. They will start a case and the seller would have to send a sample to TTBS, if it fails the tests according to an accepted international standard then the product can be pulled off the shelf.