WTK Budget SQ Components

[PiMan]

Guys I need some advice on selecting a pair of components.

Im torn between the Polk Audio db6501 and Hertz DSK 165.3. Both cost around the same.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_910 ... b6501.html

http://www.woofersetc.com/p-11803-dsk-1 ... ystem.html

Power will be from Zapco st4x and active setup

[Gladiator]

I have a pair of ceramic coated MB Quart Q series 5.25" components. These are the German made old school series. PM me if you are interested.

[X_Factor]

u could also consider the alpine type r's
those sound great and is around the 150usd range as well

[DVSTT]

Look at focal Audio as well OP

[kavaninho]

morel tempo good bang for buck aswell

[kurpal_v2]

What kinda music you listen to op?

[PiMan]

Listen to anything basically once sounding good.
Edm, old school dub, hop hop,dancehall

I was suggested jl audio c2 and German maestro concept

Was reading the aluminum tweeter from the focal are a bit harsh and I'm wondering if the titanium from the German will be the same

Really looking for natural

[Sully]

Most metallic tweeters are harsh for a SQ setup. But if you want loud and willing to forego some sq then I'd say go for it.

[Gladiator]

Most metallic tweeters are harsh for a SQ setup. But if you want loud and willing to forego some sq then I'd say go for it.

I disagree there.... the best I ever heard was metallic dome tweeters. they sound more realistic, dynamic and lifelike. Nothing like hearing the cymbal and high hat on a metal dome.

Processing is a must though...

[nigel1977]

the best I ever heard was metallic dome tweeters. they sound more realistic, dynamic and lifelike. Nothing like hearing the cymbal and high hat on a metal dome

What sounds best for you, may not sound the same for someone else. Your experience and library of Tweeter auditions in various listening environments may very well be different.

I too once believed my Focal Utopia TN52's were the best...

The yardstick for measuring the "best" is very very subjective.

[Gladiator]

the best I ever heard was metallic dome tweeters. they sound more realistic, dynamic and lifelike. Nothing like hearing the cymbal and high hat on a metal dome

What sounds best for you, may not sound the same for someone else. Your experience and library of Tweeter auditions in various listening environments may very well be different.

I too once believed my Focal Utopia TN52's were the best...

The yardstick for measuring the "best" is very very subjective.

Just as a reference... what do you consider the best you ever heard? I know you as a long serving veteran in the sport. Your opinion is valued.

[Sully]

Most metallic tweeters are harsh for a SQ setup. But if you want loud and willing to forego some sq then I'd say go for it.

I disagree there.... the best I ever heard was metallic dome tweeters. they sound more realistic, dynamic and lifelike. Nothing like hearing the cymbal and high hat on a metal dome.

Processing is a must though...

There in lies the problem. If a speaker requires that much processing, then it's far from sounding natural, or to your your term lifelike. Over processing sound brings with it its own set of problems, which are rarely evident in a tweeter where most are crossed >4k.

[SR]

My personal experience with metalic based tweeters is that you get ear fatigue much faster than with a silk dome. Both will soubd good but for long periods of listening after a while you will tend to lower the volume a bit as it puts the strain on the ears

[Aimar]

The metal is fine "for me" in terms of fatigue. It's when you crank it...

I'm quite sure the ceramic coated metals that gladiator is speaking of was crossed quite low, in the 2000hz region @12...

I personally went back to a low crossed metals on dash and like it.

They are well and proper attenuated

It's all application and preference i guess...

[nigel1977]

My tweeter rant is as follows...

A tweeter is supposed to play treble. My own definition of treble is upper 6k. Many may disagree, that's fine.

Metallic dome sound better at "lower" frequencies don't they? Why? Is upper midrange from a tweeter so important?
[/rant].

[opinion]
Crossing tweeters into the upper midrange zone serves one main purpose... to raise a low soundstage due to unoptimised midrange installation locations. There may be many other reasons, but from my limited knowledge, I believe that would be the main reason.

A lot of the problems you guys, Amar and Jason are experiencing, is that you're probably asking your midrange to do too much at the upper end of their natural response. I'm also assuming both systems are 2 way, i.e. tweeter and midrange/midbass.

I encourage you to try a 3 way. There are a lot of white papers regarding how to do this, without costly processing just to get you on your feet.
P.M me for more info on that if you'd like.

A shameless plug... is your midrange going up to 17k on axis without cone breakup? *grin*
[/opinion]

To answer the question asked, my tweeters are presently crossed 7.1k@24db/oct.
There really isnt much "hearing". I run Hybrid-Audio Technologies L1ProR2. Which is silk diaphram Ring Radiator Tweeter.

Feel free to discuss. Finally a technical genuine SQ thread.
SQ is still alive !!!!!

[silent_riot]

There are harsh sounding silk/fabric tweeters, as well as laid back metal tweeters.
The generalization that metal tweeters sounds harsh is antiquated.
Harsh sounding tweeters are poorly designed, regardless of the material used, brand or price.

My 2c: my choice of tweeter is get one which covers the frequency response your midrange can't, with low distortion and a dispersion pattern tailored for your listening position. Additionally, you should have enough equalisation to treat some of the acoustic issues in the car, in addition to controlling left/right intensities.

[Gladiator]

My tweeter rant is as follows...

A tweeter is supposed to play treble. My own definition of treble is upper 6k. Many may disagree, that's fine.

Metallic dome sound better at "lower" frequencies don't they? Why? Is upper midrange from a tweeter so important?
[/rant].

[opinion]
Crossing tweeters into the upper midrange zone serves one main purpose... to raise a low soundstage due to unoptimised midrange installation locations. There may be many other reasons, but from my limited knowledge, I believe that would be the main reason.

A lot of the problems you guys, Amar and Jason are experiencing, is that you're probably asking your midrange to do too much at the upper end of their natural response. I'm also assuming both systems are 2 way, i.e. tweeter and midrange/midbass.

I encourage you to try a 3 way. There are a lot of white papers regarding how to do this, without costly processing just to get you on your feet.
P.M me for more info on that if you'd like.

A shameless plug... is your midrange going up to 17k on axis without cone breakup? *grin*
[/opinion]

To answer the question asked, my tweeters are presently crossed 7.1k@24db/oct.
There really isnt much "hearing". I run Hybrid-Audio Technologies L1ProR2. Which is silk diaphram Ring Radiator Tweeter.

Feel free to discuss. Finally a technical genuine SQ thread.
SQ is still alive !!!!!

Yes SQ is alive... I am not active at the moment, but looking to rekindle my spirit shortly.

My last install was actually an active 3 way: 5.25s in the A pillars, 6.5" below and a 2 inch ceramic coated metal dome up top. If I remember correctly I crossed the tweets at 5k and had the midrange do an overlap with the tweeter.

My tuning methods were very unorthodox, but yielded very good results. My thinking is that processing is a must because we don't hear in a flat line and you need to compensate for your own ears in addition to the car environment and the audio equipment.

Jonathan would have remembered the install. We spent hours doing the MECA/ICE Club testing etc.

My judgement of tweeters was usually based on the orthodox "silk is good metal is bad". I sampled many fabric and silk domes and tried a few as well. I never got that dynamic feel from the silk dome. You had to push them hard to get any detail and at that point they started screaming. One day I got the opportunity to try the metal dome and I was blown away. On the metal dome the instruments sounded alive and real.

[Aimar]

My set is a simple 2way, passive, bi-amped set(tweets on dash). The x-over point is 2900hz@ 12db
tweet@-5db and mid @-3db, of axis!
5ch amp.

This is the best sounding set up i have since competing. It is also quite flexible in terms of spl...

I have never done 3way on dash, so i cannot comment on that. I did hear some good and some not so good ones.
Conventional 3way(kick panel) just could not give me the spl i wanted for daily normal(mp3 etc..)listening... It still is my reference point (tonality,stage,height, width etc...)

[TK!]

forget comps go full active 3-way + sub:
sb acoustics ring radiators - 60 WRMS
faital pro 3" - 20 WRMS
exodus anarchy 6" - 200 WRMS
idq subs - cheap, great sq

[PiMan]

I'm glad to see that my question has sparked am informative discussion on sq.

I'm new to sq and looking to increase my knowledge to attain a good sounding sq system.

From other forums, I have read that the sound of a tweeter is dependant on the rear of the listener just like stated above.

My car is a 141fielder and the equipment I have thus far is pioneer 80prs, zapco st4x and 500Xm, crossfire c5 12 dual 2.
Looking for a suitable pair of components that I will run active to the st4x.
Midbass will go in the stock location and thinking of the tweeters in the sail panel on axis.
Dampening the doors of course.
Sub will be in a sealed enclosure most likely fiberglass molded into the right side of the cargo bay.
All processing to be done with the 80prs.

Leaning towards the jl audio c2 650. Open to suggestions.

Note this is budget build for personal enjoyment and simplicity. Also I'm going to do everything myself as part of my learning process as I will ask questions and do research.

Possibly enter rookie depending on how confident I feel about my system.

[chosen1]

Why not?

Try the jl set, run active and learn. If you are not getting what you are looking for, use the information gathered from your experience and move on.

We all started somewhere

[PiMan]

I do plan on purchasing it but I'm out of the country presently working so that won't happen fire a couple weeks which is why I'm still open to suggestions.

Thanks for the motivation though. It's true we all have to start and learn as we go along

[L'Audi]

FWIW, those Hertz components are an amazing value for dollar.

[Soundstream_626]

what exactly is "Budget" for you? I agree with those guys who tell u go active with raw drivers. SB Acoustics and Fountek have some amazing drivers for the price.

[PiMan]

Budget is around$1200

[kavaninho]

See what you find on PartsExpress, $1200 will take you a long way there. Since you going active, the full $1200 will go towards raw drivers rather than buying a component set and putting away the passives under your bed.

[Soundstream_626]

these tweeters would be sweeeeet

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/s ... er-4-ohms/

[PiMan]

So I'm back in the country and ready to start back on the car. Decided on this for midbass https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/s ... wool-cone/

For the tweeters I'm looking at these.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/s ... er-4-ohms/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/r ... r-tweeter/

Which seems to be a better match?

[kavaninho]

Of the two, the SB Acoustics has a much better on and off axis response. This will be more lenient in your install.

[Brian Steele]

Of the two, the SB Acoustics has a much better on and off axis response. This will be more lenient in your install.

The large flange size of the SB Acoustics tweeter however does introduce some limitations of its own wrt installation.

I use the following tweeters (and Dayton ND16s as super-tweeters) with those SF woofers in my install. I used a passive x-over with them, but I'd suggest going fully active and experimenting with different mounting points, ensure that the listening position is no more than 30 degrees off-axis of the tweeters, and the "super-tweeters" may not be needed.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/a ... e-tweeter/